Who is ideal translator in your consideration?
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Assalamao alaikum,
Who is ideal translator in your consideration?
Encouraged by the fact that many members of this forum do study Qur'an rather critically, and certainly prefer one translator over others, I have put this question.
Translation is an old activity that man has practiced since ancient times. Its necessity was felt because of variation and diversity in the languages of the peoples which in itself is a pointer-thought provoking existential for the knowledgeable people .
Complete literature is available on web and encyclopedias about translation theories and approaches considered suitable and adopted during various periods regarding translation.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translation
Just google books will also be available.The purpose of study is to find about your ideal translator as to the theory and approach he adopted for giving his translation of Qur'aan.
Therefore, if we say, for example, Layeth is the ideal translator, we should explore his approach.
Please name your ideal translator alongwith his preferential theory and approach of translation.
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Wa A3laikum asSalaam,
AlQuraan CANNOT be translated... hence, no translators.
It is because, aayaat of alQuraan keeps changing its place every time and keeps us updating always 16101. So, alQuraan CANNOT be translated. Translating it is not possible at all.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Wa A3laikum asSalaam,
AlQuraan CANNOT be translated... hence, no translators.
It is because, aayaat of alQuraan keeps changing its place every time and keeps us updating always 16101. So, alQuraan CANNOT be translated. Translating it is not possible at all.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhanSalamun alaika,
Your understanding too is based on translation, not on what is stated in Arabic in Qur'aan. The verb therein is past tense.
And when We changed-shifted the textual location of an Ayah to location of another Ayah,
while Allah the Exalted fully knows about that which He the Exalted is gradually revealing,
they-the non believing ruling elite alleged; "You are indeed one who diligently manipulates-redrafts the text".
No, you have not sequenced-redrafted-organized it, but the fact of the matter is that most of them do not understand it.Saying that Qur'aan cannot be translated means negating the universality of it ---it is for the entire humanity and Allah informs us that the people have different languages.
Saying like this is all the more strange in 21st century when we have translated about 85 percent of information coded in DNA. And that is not in Arabic - a living language.
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Wa A3laikum asSalaam,
AlQuraan CANNOT be translated... hence, no translators.
It is because, aayaat of alQuraan keeps changing its place every time and keeps us updating always 16101. So, alQuraan CANNOT be translated. Translating it is not possible at all.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhanI have come across many idiotic remarks and viewpoints on this site. . . but this really takes the biscuit. Quran is book in Arabic - hence it is understandable and translateable. . . as have been done repeatedly.
"And when We substitute a verse in place of a verse - and Allah is most knowing of what He sends down - they say, "You, , are but an inventor ." But most of them do not know."
This verse in no way counters this.
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peace all,
I think mmkhan means there can be no definitive/perfect translation of Quran, so in that sense it is untranslateable.
In any case, for me, when it comes to translating Quran, whoever it is should have a robust and ideally falsifiable/testable methodology, as governed by Quran itself, e.g. http//www.quran434.com/study-method.html
If they state their methodology beforehand for all to see, then all the better.
Of course, telling others your methodology and sticking to it requires more effort and time, so some prefer not to have such an approach.It is also important to provide the reader with tools so they can check/refute your translation. This is my preference.
In terms of the translators out there, my favourite is Muhammad Asad, mainly because he seems to remain true to the spirit of Quran throughout and applies careful consideration and logic in his renditions.
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peace all,
I think mmkhan means there can be no definitive/perfect translation of Quran, so in that sense it is untranslateable.
In any case, for me, when it comes to translating Quran, whoever it is should have a robust and ideally falsifiable/testable methodology, as governed by Quran itself, e.g. http//www.quran434.com/study-method.html
If they state their methodology beforehand for all to see, then all the better.
Of course, telling others your methodology and sticking to it requires more effort and time, so some prefer not to have such an approach.It is also important to provide the reader with tools so they can check/refute your translation. This is my preference.
In terms of the translators out there, my favourite is Muhammad Asad, mainly because he seems to remain true to the spirit of Quran throughout and applies careful consideration and logic in his renditions.
Salamun alaika,
About first part, Ased's understanding was qualified and restricted to certain aspects of Qur'aan thought to be difficult for transerence into target language. Like what he said, "the rhythm and sound of its phrases and their syntactic construction, the manner in which a methphor flows almost imperceptibly into a pragmatic statement, the use of accoustic stress .......all this makes the Qur'aan, in the last resort, unique and untransalatable"
He was not in favour of Metaphrase involving "word by word" and "line by line" translation.
He seemed in favour of Paraphrase involving "sense for sense" translation.Please give your opinion if you read him critically
Did he follow what he said in the beginning? And did he even try to address the nicities he had pointed out as difficulties in rendering that aspect of Qur'aan?
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Salamun alaika,
Your understanding too is based on translation, not on what is stated in Arabic in Qur'aan. The verb therein is past tense.
And when We changed-shifted the textual location of an Ayah to location of another Ayah,
while Allah the Exalted fully knows about that which He the Exalted is gradually revealing,
they-the non believing ruling elite alleged; "You are indeed one who diligently manipulates-redrafts the text".
No, you have not sequenced-redrafted-organized it, but the fact of the matter is that most of them do not understand it.Saying that Qur'aan cannot be translated means negating the universality of it ---it is for the entire humanity and Allah informs us that the people have different languages.
Saying like this is all the more strange in 21st century when we have translated about 85 percent of information coded in DNA. And that is not in Arabic - a living language.
Salaamun A3laika Mazhar,
Blue Need more clarification.
Green Contradicts with red part.
Red Answered my post positively.May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
"And when We substitute a verse in place of a verse - and Allah is most knowing of what He sends down - they say, "You, , are but an inventor ." But most of them do not know."
And when We changed-shifted the textual location of an Ayah to location of another Ayah,
while Allah the Exalted fully knows about that which He the Exalted is gradually revealing,
they-the non believing ruling elite alleged; "You are indeed one who diligently manipulates-redrafts the text".
No, you have not sequenced-redrafted-organized it, but the fact of the matter is that most of them do not understand it.This is what I was saying.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
I think mmkhan means there can be no definitive/perfect translation of Quran, so in that sense it is untranslateable.
Peace Wakas,
Thank you. As I quoted 16101 which says that aayaat of alQuraan change its place, that means, we will be updated in the path of Allah by using the same aayaat. For example, we may have an understanding of any aayat, then our understanding keep on changing on that particular aayat in order to update us on our understanding. I personally understand that it is required in order to serve Allah, when He wants us to do something, we have to do it, and when He ask us to do something else, we have to do that, this is how we serve Allah.
In such conditions how is it possible to translate alQuraan? hmm When we are not stable in one place.
We have to keep in mind that we ask Allah for Siraat alMustaqeem, i.e., straight PATH and while on path, nothing repeats, we will have to encounter new things always. So, we have to keep on updating. Hence it is not possible to translate alQuraan with single understanding.
Hope I made my point clear, inshaAllah.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Salaamun A3laika Mazhar,
Blue Need more clarification.
Green Contradicts with red part.
Red Answered my post positively.May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhanThis is the past tense. If it had not happened then there was no cause for what is stated afterwards what the people alleged. That too is a past tense begininng with Qalu.
The in between sentence is what is termed as parenthetic.
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This is the past tense. If it had not happened then there was no cause for what is stated afterwards what the people alleged. That too is a past tense begininng with Qalu.
The in between sentence is what is termed as parenthetic.
Salaamun a3laika,
Red Sorry, I don't agree. When comes with it cannot be taken as past tense. Please take a look at 56 for . Instead, if is used, then the case is in past tense, like in 293. You can take a look at 7628 for to understand it proper usage with , inshaAllah.
See how Muhammad Sarwar translated
16101 When God replaces one revelation with another, He knows best what to reveal. But they say, "you have falsely invented it." Most people are ignorant.is used in past tense because whenever Allah brings something new to them, they SAID...... I don't understand why you missed before that, which is clearly a muzare .
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Salaamun a3laika,
Red Sorry, I don't agree. When comes with it cannot be taken as past tense. Please take a look at 56 for . Instead, if is used, then the case is in past tense, like in 293. You can take a look at 7628 for to understand it proper usage with , inshaAllah.
See how Muhammad Sarwar translated
16101 When God replaces one revelation with another, He knows best what to reveal. But they say, "you have falsely invented it." Most people are ignorant.is used in past tense because whenever Allah brings something new to them, they SAID...... I don't understand why you missed before that, which is clearly a muzare .
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhanUnless the first thing--condition--had happened why they would have said what they said?
this relates to parethetic clause --since the point in time was when the Qur'aan was in the process of gradual revelation. I hope you understand that parethetic clauses are not related to the main clauses of a text.
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Unless the first thing--condition--had happened why they would have said what they said?
this relates to parethetic clause --since the point in time was when the Qur'aan was in the process of gradual revelation. I hope you understand that parethetic clauses are not related to the main clauses of a text.
Red In this case, as I said earlier would have used instead of . Hence it is referring to present time.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
There is No Tranlator. Allah Teaches the Quran and more the Pure Heart it receives directly as Wahi
Well, then there is no need for a book at all... I agree that you may get the message of the Quran without ever reading it. And that you may read it all the time, with arabic as mother tongue, and still not get the message if you are not open to it.
BUT as there is the text, it should have some function. So, to go back to the question, the ideal translation would have to mention all possible meanings of each arabic word. But that would be illegible. So, as one German professor in a radio feature about the Quran said "If people ask me which translation they should read, it tell them to learn arabic". In the meantime, best is to read as many different translations as possible ant then trust God's guidance to pick the right one. -
Red In this case, as I said earlier would have used instead of . Hence it is referring to present time.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhanPresent time i.e. today is not the reference time. It relates to the happening in the days of revelation of Qur'aan. The revelation was gradual. Every fresh chunk of information was to be adjusted in the running text of the Book which was under formation and compilation at that point in time. This was not one time happening, rather a many time happenings when place of Ayah was shifted in the later compilation. For this reason the time adverb Iza as condition is used. Thereby Iza would better translate "whenever".
The Book fully compiled has reached us. Now there is no such thing of shifting of the textual location of an Ayah.
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There is No Tranlator. Allah Teaches the Quran and more the Pure Heart it receives directly as Wahi
Well, then there is no need for a book at all... I agree that you may get the message of the Quran without ever reading it. And that you may read it all the time, with arabic as mother tongue, and still not get the message if you are not open to it.
Allah the Exalted guides people, but according to His own statement He the Exalted guides through - with Qur'aan.
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Well, then there is no need for a book at all... I agree that you may get the message of the Quran without ever reading it. And that you may read it all the time, with arabic as mother tongue, and still not get the message if you are not open to it.
BUT as there is the text, it should have some function. So, to go back to the question, the ideal translation would have to mention all possible meanings of each arabic word. But that would be illegible. So, as one German professor in a radio feature about the Quran said "If people ask me which translation they should read, it tell them to learn arabic". In the meantime, best is to read as many different translations as possible ant then trust God's guidance to pick the right one.Salaam Reee,
Red I think he meant that Allah guides us through alQuraan )
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Present time i.e. today is not the reference time. It relates to the happening in the days of revelation of Qur'aan. The revelation was gradual. Every fresh chunk of information was to be adjusted in the running text of the Book which was under formation and compilation at that point in time. This was not one time happening, rather a many time happenings when place of Ayah was shifted in the later compilation. For this reason the time adverb Iza as condition is used. Thereby Iza would better translate "whenever".
The Book fully compiled has reached us. Now there is no such thing of shifting of the textual location of an Ayah.
No brother, I think, you have to wipe off your old understanding then only you may able to understand what Allah says. Just take guidance from Allah through alQuraan directly without other's interpretations, inshaAllah, you will see what I am saying. Just for an example Allah says
222
222 who made for you the earth a bed and the sky a ceiling and sent down from the sky, rain and brought forth thereby fruits as provision for you. So do not attribute to Allah equals while you know.2174
2174 Indeed, they who conceal what Allah has sent down of the Book and exchange it for a small price - those consume not into their bellies except the Fire. And Allah will not speak to them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He purify them. And they will have a painful punishment.Same word is used in both aayaat, and unfortunately, all who are not alQuraan alone understands in 222 as regular process and in 2174 as ended process long back. We should not forget that Allah is very precise on choosing words in alQuraan and every word is used willingly to show us its correct meaning. Hope you understand what I am saying.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan
