Gay Marriage Has Been Legalized in France
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Peace everyone,
First of all I feel secular governments should stay away from the word marriage period. If for tax purposes they want to issue civil unions to any pair of consenting adults they can. Marriage is a sacred union tied to many religions. Even lesser known sects that happily marry same sex couples, to those followers it may be very sacred, but again if they live in a secular government then all adult couples no matter what religion will receive a civil union.
As far as people not being born gay and that it's terrible and they are perverts, I could not disagree more. Some people are born gay. Some people are born with BOTH male and female sex organs. This happens in nature. Mammals pretty much all start as females in the womb until the gender of male develops if it is a creation that is meant to develop as male. Males have nipples because of this. I don't think it's impossible for people or animals to be born gay if you look at the signs of nature and think. -
Peace
Bottom line being gay is against gods creation
If everybody went gay the world would go extinctThis ish is stupid and shouldn't een be up for convo
Sorry if I'm Comin off harsh but, you know what's right and you know what's wrong
PERIOD
Peace
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Peace
Bottom line being gay is against gods creation
If everybody went gay the world would go extinctThis ish is stupid and shouldn't een be up for convo
Sorry if I'm Comin off harsh but, you know what's right and you know what's wrong
PERIOD
Peace
You are not planning on going gay - are you? So why the need to worry about the world going extinct?
And how do you consider people who are born with both female and male characteristics like newform pointed out?
Making statements/claims without supporting evidence and knowledge, putting down people saying very derogatory things - all go against God's commands.
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Lol ok , u got it
Peace
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Peace,
I don't know the extent to which homosexuality is natural and whether some acquire it. So I just say I don't know. In terms of marriage, it's not an issue for me so I say leave them to it. In terms of hate towards homosexual people, that really is bigotry.
I feel as though the Quran clearly states and discusses heterosexuality, but leaves the topic of homosexuality as a blessing. We don't need to take any stance on it, and this can save us the types of problems that could be involved if we had to. I think its possible for people to be homosexual and Muslim as it's between them and God.
There are a lot of things that I don't agree with - homosexuality has become vogue, cool and political to the extent that if you don't accept homosexuality then you are seen as being close minded. I don't agree with gay couples adopting and I very much oppose that. There is so much homosexuality and heterosexual immorality in the media - movies, TV shows, commercials that I choose not to watch these shows. But I don't harbor hatred, bigotry or anger towards homosexuals. I oppose discrimination, hatred, bigotry, bullying and calling homosexuals deviants and satanic.
Homosexuality definitely has become a vogue and cool topic these days. People can't have the personal view that homosexuality might not be natural without a potential attitude of being called a bigot or close minded like you said. However, people can continue to seriously mock, with venom at times, God, religion in general, faith, Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Wicca, etc and that is not seen as bigotry, but free speech instead. And then the extension of mocking God, faith and so on, is that the people who support and follow through with their beliefs, they are also mocked - no matter what type of person they are -, although maybe not as much as the actual beliefs in order to perhaps avoid open bigotry.
This is clearly a double standard, someone who says that homosexuality may be unnatural, but let homosexual people get on with their lives - those people are not bigots or close minded. They just have a different opinion. But if someone has such as condescending attitude towards those who have faith, this apparently is not at all bigotry or close minded. But their mockery is their problem, not mine/ours. I brought that example in to compare issues, I don't mean to take this off topic.
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Male + Female = Baby
Male + Male = HIV
Any Quranic references?
Dear Sonny
I am not sure where you come from, but wherever it is you are not being given the right information.
I want you to take a minute and actually read what people are saying. Nobody here claiming that homosexuality is not forbidden is not saying it is allowed, well not at least anyone who has used any Quranic reference. A lot of people here have looked in the Quran for evidence and eventhough they are personally against homosexuality they cannot find any verses to support it. They have instead followed the guidelines to the straight path and have left it up to Allah to judge.
Your job as a muslim is to strive for peace, respect and harmony. Just like a homosexual muslim must accept and respect your disgust you must accept and respect him. You do not need to agree or be friends, but you should not throw your religion in eachother faces , especially when the name of your religion is "peace". You should never in the name of Islam include any argument that homosexuality can be compared to bestiality, spreading of disease or any other bad thing you can think of.
If you were an Imam and a gay couple asked if you could help them with a nikkah you have all the right in the world to refuse them. You can say that it goes against how you interpret the Quran. You can also accept if you believe it is according to the Quran..........nobody can say you are right or wrong, Allah will be the judge.
When it comes to countries accepting gay marriages they are right to do so. They form law that are supposed to uphold every citizen's human right regardless of colour, gender, race, religion or sexual orientation. So do not be upset about France legalizing gay marriages, they will defend your right to be against it. "I disagree with you and I will die defending your right to your opinion" is an expression you should take to heart.
When it comes to the Quranic references you have so far produced surah 7 as evidence that Allah has forbidden homosexuality. So far you have not responded to anyone that claims you are wrong, instead you seem to be busy posting stickers of facepalms and Jim Carrey. So maybe it is time to objectively sit down and have a decent discussion, eh?
Surah 7 includes 6 stories about communities that have been destroyed by Allah. If one of these stories to be interpreted as to be taken literally (that you do), then isn't logical that all of the stories should be taken literal?
So what else is forbidden according to surah 7? Please enlighten me..............I am not sure how you think but to me it is quite clear that you have created an oxymoron, that you forbidding homosexuality actually qualifies you to be destroyed by Allah...........I am curious if you can spot it.
I would also like to draw your attention to a couple of verses in surah 7. The first describes how the communities could have avoided destruction
796And if only the people of the towns had believed and been aware, then We would have opened for them blessings from the heavens and the earth; but they denied, so We took them for what they had earned.
So if they would have accepted the prophet in question as a prophet of Allah then they could have avoided destruction.
The second one where Allah is acknowledging prophet Muhammeds fears to face people who do not believe him to be a prophet of Allah
72 A Book that has been sent down to you, so let there not be any burden in your chest from it, that you may warn with it; and a reminder to the believers.
The third I want to point out is how Allah wants prophet Muhammed to act if he should encounter a community like, for example Moses or Lot's
7198-199 And when you invite them to the guidance, they do not listen. And you see them looking at you, while they do not see.
Take to pardoning, and order what is good, and turn away from the ignorant oneI would like for you to take time and read the entire surah, maybe you will come to another conclusion than the one you are currently holding on to, namely that a homosexual cannot be muslim or anyone that do not think homosexuality is forbidden should leave islam.
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Dear Sonny
I am not sure where you come from, but wherever it is you are not being given the right information.
I would like for you to take time and read the entire surah, maybe you will come to another conclusion than the one you are currently holding on to, namely that a homosexual cannot be muslim or anyone that do not think homosexuality is forbidden should leave islam.
I'm coming from europe and I see a lot of gays every day and I can tell you they are people that should be put in mental hospital because they are SICK.
I'm not sure from where are you coming, probably from US where this sickness is allowed.
You are not a muslim, christian jew or anything, you support sex be4 marriage, homosexuality etc..I'm wasting my time with sick people like you who support this satanism like homosexuality and sex before marriage.
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Peace Sonny,
I think you should try to calm down, for the sake of God and your religious Path. Aggression against this problem is futile.
I am also upset by the attitude towards homosexuality, but there is little I can do about it. I am calm anyway.
Being old-fashioned/conservative/modest is painful in the world we live in, but being dogmatic to it does not help.
God bless you
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homosexual marriage isn't something that's permitted within the Quran.
Your sentece is not true.
The truth is there is no single Quranic verse that mention "same sex marriage", so Quran is neutral against it.Like laws regarding human picture , there are no single verse in Quran mention about it, so we drawing human or not, it's ok because there's no Quranic laws about it.
Me coming from a background that I come from bein gay is wrong, it's going totally against gods creation
Bottom line being gay is against gods creation
If everybody went gay the world would go extinctI came from same background of you, but my differences from you is I'm not possesed by any hatred to some kind of people.
There is already proved by scientific, if gay occured because that males was born with same hormon level with female.
But If a person became a gay because "choice", this means that person contains sexual disease and cannot considered as Islami homosexual.
So homosexual is allowed or not depending on situation.
You should never in the name of Islam include any argument that homosexuality can be compared to bestiality, spreading of disease or any other bad thing you can think of.
Yes It's true,
The true is you must speak argument in the name of your own tafseer not in the name of Islam. -
I'm coming from europe and I see a lot of gays every day and I can tell you they are people that should be put in mental hospital because they are SICK.
I'm not sure from where are you coming, probably from US where this sickness is allowed.
You are not a muslim, christian jew or anything, you support sex be4 marriage, homosexuality etc..I'm wasting my time with sick people like you who support this satanism like homosexuality and sex before marriage.
Salam Sonny
I am European too.
I am not supporting sex before marriage nor homosexuality..........I am trying to differentiate between the opinion of people and what it really says in the Quran. So what I support is your effort to read and see the Quran objectively, something that you will in the future inshallah.
I am against people that abuse my religion Islam as a tool to judge and discriminate against those who are different. I am against this "my way or the highway" attitude that is unfortunately wide-spread in the muslim communities.
I would respect you if you were to say that you do not like gay people without dragging Islam into it. I would respect you even more if you actually answered any of my questions.
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Can you explain more,@drfazl? If you fear the second part of 6121 do not involve in this subject at length.
Does Allah allow us to engage in dispute on matters that are made clear to human senses as to what is pure and what is impure? Or where to enter between the two ways one is the exit way for the dirty, nasty, impurities from all what you have consumed. Another way is the blessed way of entry that gives back the beautiful product of God's finest creation from what it has consumed.
Allah commands us to keep all our self clean 744 And admonishes us against being dirty 745. For Allah loves those who are pure and those who stay away from even the blessed way of entry, during those 3-5 days when it is being used for cleaning out the unused seeds of fertilisation and creation 2222.
Those who are engaged in this particular dispute, know very well themselves they are advocates against the Truth and arguing in favour of shaitan putting out points of all falsehood against the Truth 405. They are against their own RUH, the best of criterion, even as their messengers from among the Malayika warning them therefrom that what they are engaging in is to their own peril. But they reject their appointed messenger of their RUH, for they are neither aware of nor believe in Malayika even if it is the third of the five pre-requisite to becoming a Muslim. These are the people who consider themselves as sophisticated and elite society whose flamboyance is seen widely prevalent in the cities.
None can dispute about the Truth from Allah but the Unbelievers. Let not, then, their strutting about through the land deceive you 404
Stay away from such wanton discussions if you fear of becoming shaitaans yourselves by arguing with them on equal footings.
6121 And, verily, the evil impulses within men's hearts whisper unto those who have made them their own that they should involve you in argument as to what is and what is not a sin; and if you pay heed unto them, lo! you will become like those who ascribe divinity to other ways or forces beside God.
fazlur rahman.
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Salam Sonny
I am European too.
I am not supporting sex before marriage nor homosexuality..........I am trying to differentiate between the opinion of people and what it really says in the Quran. So what I support is your effort to read and see the Quran objectively, something that you will in the future inshallah.
I am against people that abuse my religion Islam as a tool to judge and discriminate against those who are different. I am against this "my way or the highway" attitude that is unfortunately wide-spread in the muslim communities.
I would respect you if you were to say that you do not like gay people without dragging Islam into it. I would respect you even more if you actually answered any of my questions.
Listen, according to QURAN prophet Lot(Lut) said to people of Sodom next
here you have many international translations
781
Indeed, you approach men with desire, instead of women. Rather, you are a transgressing people."781
You approach men lustfully in place of women. You are a people who exceed all bounds.'781
In preference to women you satisfy your lust with men. Indeed you are a people who are guilty of excess."781
"For ye practise your lusts on men in preference to women ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds."781
`You indeed approach men rather than (your) women to satisfy your lust. The fact is that you are a people who transgress all limits.?But they decided to not listen to him and God told Lot to leave the city, shortly after city was destroyed.
Read THIS
Quran clearly says that homosexuality is forbidden so please stop with nonsense like muslim gays and stuff. Its forbidden in Islam Period -
Does Allah allow us to engage in dispute on matters that are made clear to human senses as to what is pure and what is impure? Or where to enter between the two ways one is the exit way for the dirty, nasty, impurities from all what you have consumed. Another way is the blessed way of entry that gives back the beautiful product of God's finest creation from what it has consumed.
Those who are engaged in this particular dispute, know very well themselves they are advocates against the Truth and arguing in favour of shaitan putting out points of all falsehood against the Truth 405. They are against their own RUH, the best of criterion, even as their messengers from among the Malayika warning them therefrom that what they are engaging in is to their own peril. But they reject their appointed messenger of their RUH, for they are neither aware of nor believe in Malayika even if it is the third of the five pre-requisite to becoming a Muslim. These are the people who consider themselves as sophisticated and elite society whose flamboyance is seen widely prevalent in the cities.
Your argument is good @drfazl, but more good if you say this debate as a "study".
We debate each other, doesn't means we hated each other, like a debate in a seminar, it doesnt mean the both sides are enemies in physically meaning, but they are enemies in term of ideals.Thats why each debate forum has a modearator like in this free-minds.By the way I didn't consider it as debate, but musyawaroh
4238 And those who have responded to their Lord, and they hold the contact prayer, and their affairs are conducted by musyawaroh among themselves, and from Our provisions to them they give.
another verse pinting similiar (3159,656)
By the way debate with emotion has nothing to do in Quran.Salam.
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Peace
I feel why sonny is mad Thoe
Wat he's tryna say is that some of y'all is making it seem like it's cool or it's no biggie
It is a biggie..... But to them is there's and to mine is mine.
Peace
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Peace Sonny,
Looks like you're still influenced by traditional teaching for intepreting Quran.
Yes, the Quran is "forbids" homosexualty but in what criterion?
If you look story of Sodom in the Quran or in the Bible, you will notice that-
It's strange if most of people in a city (like in Sodom) are gays, so this means they are not born gay, but they're gay by choice, this means they have sexual mentaly ill and adultery.This means the Sodom is not pure gay but adulterer.
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If the verses told if God's punishment occured because Sodom did homosexual.Then It's all wrong.If the punishment is for that gay act, then why Luth's wife was punished too.
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,this means that, the Sodom was doing another bad doing too, if you look in this verse
780." And Lot, he said to his people ?Do you commit fahishaa such as none of those of the worlds had done before??
The word fahishaa, cannot translated into "homosexual" as traditionalist did, but translated in to "bad doing".The example of Sodom's another sins can be read in http//quranistvoices.wordpress.com/2011/04/29/homosexuality-and-the-people-of-lut/- If homosexual is forbidden, then why no single verses in Quran pointing lesbian.
5)Luth stated in 780, if the Sodoms commited faahisyah which never commited by any humans before.This means the faahisyah is not homosexuality, because the homosexs already practiced by some people before Luth eras.
Look in thishttp//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_LGBT_history-
Scientist or physcollogist already proved that "born gay" is exist and make the gay into straight for me is just a rumor or smooth plan.
You ever posted, if "born gay" is european medias innnovation, then it's actually wrong.There is a psycollogist in my country stated that "born gay" is exist, and he wrote article about it in his blog. -
You also said, if homosexuality was forbidden by all church is totally wrong.There are some chruch who legalized homosexual, and homosexuality in christianity still a debate.
Bro @Sonny, intepreting Quran is not limited by reading translation, since each translation is different and not perfect, but what you must do is study the Quran language too, and study all verses in Quran, because the verses in Quran is correlated each other.
Example
Verse 489 not literally means that you must kill non Muslim wheneve you meet them, but if you read all verses in the Quran the verse 489 was in state of war, and the non Muslims who ordered to be killed are the enemies in war that attacking muslims.
My conclusion is
-If the gay is a "born gay", and cannot be cured by anyway, this means Quranic law is still apologize them.
-But if a person became gay because "choice", and in the reality that person is not actually pure gay, I think it's against the Quran and can considered as adultery act.The Sodom's case is the example.Salaam peace
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What's up with All the hate and prejudice? What's up with all the spewing of vile venom?
God did not say "don't be gay (i.e be attracted to the same gender)", rather, the commandment was to ONLY have sexual relations with your heterosexual spouse.
There is a difference and enlightenment here. God set limits because he KNEW that people CAN transgress them. Meaning that there will be people out there who will have an inclination to have sexual relationships with the same gender AND go ahead and act upon there desires.
There is a reason why God cited a quality of believers as GUARDING their private parts. What do we need to guard/protect our private parts from? well, your desires might be one thing to protect them from...
Moreover, some people might be attracted to children or even animals, again God set limits, THUS, it's not whether you like something or not, it's whether you act upon your desires.
When i was young, I used to be attracted to guys and in a lesser degree girls. I can say for myself, My sexuality was a learned behavior. Sorry Mr. Sonny I grew up in a muslim country (Egypt) where they separated sexes, and all there you had was boys, at school, at the play ground, and at home. so go figures what will the boys do! I didn't choose to be in that kind of environment where sexes were separated and boys were boys, and thus resulting in same-gender attraction.
Now I have totally changed into being asexual. Sexuality is not a drive for me. I have other important things to care for, like my own survival. But nevertheless, i don't like people condemning gays, because sometimes it's how people were brought up. My case is an example. You can only enlighten and advice them.
Mr. Sonny, Yes I support gay marriage. Have you not noted that there is NO COMPULSION in religion? Are you going to force people not to sin?
I believe gay marriage is better than having open relationships. Because marriage requires commitment. I believe that marring ONE same-sex partner is more righteous than having MULTIPLE same-sex partners out of wedlock. (My belief is that, if you can't stop a sinner (by advising them etc.), then at least help them sin in a better way)Again, God doesn't say "Don't be sexually attracted to the same gender", he would be saying, "Don't ACT upon your desires/attractions"and " Only have sexual relations with your (hetero) spouse)
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Peace.
Be cool. What is our attitude (positive/negative), position (accept the fact they are around) and our action (what we should do) when we encounter these kinds of people idolaters/atheists/kafirs/homosexuals/racist/fitna mongers/liars/oppressors/criminals?
Let's not forget ourselves. Warn them/tell them what's right/change/leave us alone.