Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
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Peace muslims,
The Message is as simple as doing good while believing. Why complicate things. This is what God uses like half the book to explain.
I did not literally mean throw away the Book but rather showed that even without it anyone can embrace God's Message, if they have an honest and good heart.
Well, the Message was perfected at the advent of the Book because it contains more details than any old revelation. Still it is not enough for some people but they still add lots of more conjecture. But how much has really changed in the fundamental Message from day 1? Like nothing at all. It is still believe in God while doing good and work against evil.
EDIT And why were they killed? Because they told people to stop their evil and do good instead and believe in God alone! For that they were killed.
Peace out
that is because they follow conjecture
As admitted so do you . . .
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Follow conjecture because you follow what it written in the Book and do not add more? What kind of idiocy is that to claim?
Go home to your brethren and stop being an fool around here.
Peace out
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Before I continue
First I have to apologize for involving myself in futile discussions and polluting the thread (and other threads) and thus derailing it a little, but now it is time to continue on chapter 10 and see that we can continue to show that the Message is very simple and is about having Faith in God and serving Him well by being good and doing good, and showing a good character. After all this analyzed text it is yet weird that people argue otherwise. I will try to concentrate on the Message from now on and less on those who do not contemplate the Message but rather argue on nonsense.
Chapter 10 Message check
Remember I have my own interpretation of The Book and thus it can seem different from standard translations. It is a modified Monotheist translation 2013 unless otherwise told. There is little change except for some words which I interpret a bit controversially, but I have also carefully thought this all through and over a longer period of time.
101 ALR, these are the signs of the Message of Wisdom.
To demonstrate my 'kitab' theory.
102 Is it a surprise for the people who We inspired a man from among them ?Warn the people and give good news to those who believe, that they will have a footing of truth with their Lord.? The rejecters said ?This is clearly magic!?
In the light of our previous discussion and what we have here; the Message is pretty clear.
103 Your Lord is God who has created the heavens and the earth in six days, then He settled upon the Throne; He manages all affairs. There is no intercessor except after His permission. Such is God your Lord, so serve Him. Would you not remember?
Red Remember as that this Book is not really the beginning of the Message but a Reminder of it. Yet people think there is something which separates the previous part of the Message at the advent of this Book.
Blue As usual people abuse this phrase.104 To Him is your return, all of you, for the promise of God is true. He initiates the creation then He returns it; to recompense with justice those who have believed and have done good works. As for those who have rejected, they will have a boiling drink, and a painful retribution for what they had rejected.
Red Anyone of those who had other Messengers and heed the Message of this Book or the previous Message. They are all the same Message. Cannot you see that there is not much changing in God's Message except that God perfected the system at the advent of this Book as before there were no collected scripture but in the 7th century there came a "hadith" from God, like something of a collector's edition, i.e. what was important from all the Messengers and the narrations are summarized in it and you got God's own expressions in the meantime, and not only the warnings and news from the mouths of the Messengers. Compare this Book to the brief inscriptions given to Moses millennia earlier.
105 He is the One who has made the sun a radiance, and the moon a light, and He has measured its phases; that you may know the number of the years and the count. God has not created this except with the truth. He clarifies the signs for a people who know.
106 In the difference between the night and the day and what God has created in the heavens and the earth are signs for a people who are aware.Red A big portion of The Book goes to give examples of what God has created that we may reflect. As I mentioned before God uses most part of The Book to mercifully implying to convince the reader that He is really real if one thinks about it.
107 As for those who do not wish to meet Us, and they are content with the worldly life, and they feel secure by it, and they are unaware of Our signs.
108 To these will be the destiny of the Fire for what they earned.
109 Those who (1) believe and (2) do good works, their Lord will guide them by their faith. Rivers will flow beneath them in gardens of bliss.Red Mostly to those who probably are atheists or hypocrite believers who only misbehave and do not really believe.
Blue Why do you think God writes only (1) believe and (2) do good then that He will guide them on a straight path? That is what the Messengers proclaim when they come around. This is why. People argue about tons of extra-religious stuff when the Message is so simple. Rely on the Lord and serve Him to the best of your ability and show your good character.1015 And when Our clear signs were recited to them, those who do not wish to meet Us said ?Bring a book other than this, or change it!? Say ?It is not for me to change it of my own accord, I merely follow what is inspired to me. I fear, if I disobeyed my Lord, the retribution of a great Day!?
1016 Say ?If God had willed, I would not have recited it to you, nor would you have known about it. I have been residing among you for nearly a lifetime before this; do you not comprehend??
1017 Who is more wicked than he who invents lies about God or denies His revelations? The criminals will never succeed.Red Book, not Qur'an, if you translate into English.
Blue His contemporaries could possibly have asked him to change The Book so that it added the pagan rituals Muslims world-over are anyways performing after Muhammad left this world. What Muhammad did not write down that they required they themselves wrote down in the mass of hearsay books later on.1019 The people were but one nation, then they differed. And had it not been for a previous command from your Lord, the matter would have been immediately judged between them for what they differed.
1020 And they say ?If only a sign was sent down to him from His Lord.? Say ?The future is with God, so wait, and I will wait with you.?Red The Messengers did not know the future.
Blue Obviously the Message has a tendency to split people, but it is mainly due to all resulting idolization and conjecture. People likely did not believe Muhammad because God suddenly sent an Arabic Prophet instead of the previous ones who spoke a different language. And history is prone to repeat itself if it came another Messenger in yet another language. Heed my words.1022 He is the One who carries you on land and on the sea. And when you are on the ships and We drive them with a good wind which they rejoice with, a strong gust comes to them and the waves come to them from all sides, and they think that they are finished, they implore God with loyalty and devotion to His system ?If You save us from this, we will be of the thankful.?
1023 But when He saves them, they then traverse through the land with injustice. ?O people, what you seek out is only the luxury of this worldly life, then to Us is your return and We will inform you of all that you had done.?Red When only God can save them then they implore God.
Blue But when there is no constant reminder of God then the majority forget about God. Note the injustice.1025 God calls to the abode of peace, and He guides those whom He wishes to a straight path.
1026 For those who (2) do good will be good and more, and their faces will not be darkened or humiliated. These are the people of the Paradise, in it they will abide.Red Note those whom HE wishes.
Blue And that is those who ... what? Yes, you are right, those who do good, nothing particularly complicated for good souls, and of course have Faith in God.1027 As for those who earn evil, the recompense of evil will be evil like it, and they will be humiliated. They do not have anyone to help them from God. It is as if their faces have been covered by a piece of darkness from the night. These are the people of the Fire, in it they will abide.
1028 And on the Day We gather them all, then We will say to those who were polytheists ?Stop where you are, you and your partners,? then We will separate between them, and their partners will say ?It was not us that you served!?
1029 ?God is enough as a witness between us and you, that we were unaware of you serving us.?Red Injustice, dogma and zealotry is among evil things.
Blue It is obvious that it is not about stone statues or other such materialistic idols God is talking about here but individuals that people idolized such as popular mullahs and other spiritual leaders, or Muhammad or Jesus..
Green And of course they have no link to this world once they were gone. They are completely unaware of this world after they proclaimed the Message.These people probably also generated tons of conjecture and attributed it to these individuals.
1031 Say ?Who provides for you from the heavens and the earth? Who possesses the hearing and the eyesight? And who brings the living out from the dead and brings the dead out from the living? And who manages all affairs?? They will say ?God.? Say ?Will you not be righteous!?
1032 Such is God, your true Lord. So what is after the truth except straying! Why then do you turn away?
1033 It was thus that the command of your Lord came against those who were wicked, for they did not believe.Red Is it not obvious that most of all that God implies in The Book is for people to believe?
1036 Most of them only follow conjecture. While conjecture does not avail against the Truth in anything. God is aware of what they do.
1037 This Book could not have been produced without God; it is to authenticate what is between his hands, and to give details of the Message in which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds.
1038 Or do they say ?He has invented it!? Say ?Then bring a chapter like it, and call on whom you can besides God if you are truthful.?
1039 No, they have lied about that which they had no Knowledge, nor has its explanation come to them. It is also how those before them denied, so see how was the retribution of the wicked!
1040 And there are some of them who believe in it, and some of them do not believe in it. Your Lord is better aware of the transgressors.Red I cannot understand that people do not see that Qur'an is Book and Kitab is Message in the context of The Book.
Blue The same would be said if there came a revelation in English as of today, for example.
Green Absolutely most everyone would use the expression above if a Messenger suddenly emerged in this age with a refreshment of the Message in its pristine form, except for a few.
Purple If there came yet another reminder of the Message today many people would reject it, but a few would believe. It is always few people who adhere to the Message and has always been.1041 And if they deny you, then say ?I have my deeds, and you have your deeds. You are innocent from what I do, and I am innocent from what you do.?
1042 And there are some of them who listen to you; but can you make the deaf hear, if they do not comprehend?
1043 And there are some of them who look at you; but can you guide the blind, if they do not see?Red It obviously falls down on the deeds again (2) and this only highlights its importance in God's system. Do good and not bad.
1059 Say ?Have you seen what God has sent down to you from provisions, then you have made some of it forbidden and some lawful?? Say ?Did God authorize you, or do you invent lies about God??
Red All the stuff in this world that people deem haram or halal without God's authorization goes under this.
1061 And any matter you are in, or any reciting you do of the Book, or any work you do; We are witnesses over you when you undertake it. Nothing is hidden from your Lord, not even the weight of an atom on the earth or in the heavens, nor smaller than that nor larger, except it is in a clear record.
Red I.e God is aware of everything you do.
1062 For the allies of God, there is no fear over them nor will they grieve.
1063 Those who have (1) believed and are aware.1078 They said ?Have you come to us to turn us away from that which we found our fathers upon, and so that you two would have greatness in the land? We will not believe in you.?
Red Most people would say the same today to defend the traditions.
1083 But none believed in Moses from his people except some from their descendants, because of their fear from Pharaoh and his commanders that he would persecute them. Pharaoh was high in the land, and he was of the tyrants.
Red They were more afraid of Pharaoh which was visible than in God which they could not see. The same could be related to today in certain places many people are often afraid of expressing their true Faith in fear of persecution.
1087 And We inspired to Moses and his brother ?You shall seek out homes for your people in Egypt; and leave your homes to be a focal point, and hold the Communion. And give good news to the believers.?
1088 And Moses said ?Our Lord, you have given Pharaoh and his commanders adornments and wealth in this worldly life so that they will misguide from Your path. Our Lord, wipe out their wealth and bring grief to their hearts; for they will not believe until they see the painful retribution.?
1089 He said ?Your call has been responded to, so keep straight and do not follow the path of those who do not know.?Moses established a strong bond to God together with some faithful people and held a Communion in which he prayed for this and God granted him his wish.
1090 And We helped the Children of Israel cross the sea, and Pharaoh and his soldiers followed them out of hatred and animosity. But when he was certain to drown, he said ?I believe that there is no god except the One in whom the Children of Israel believe, and I am of those who have submitted.?
1091 ?Now you say this? While before you disobeyed and were of the corrupters!?
1092 ?This day, We will preserve your body, so that you become a sign for those after you.? But most of the people are unaware of Our signs!Red Pharaoh held one final Communion, perhaps the first in his life and God clearly responded in such a way He normally only does to those who believe in God and frequently do Communion and have reached a strong bonding. This was because the next moment God made the flood drown the disobedient Pharaoh anyway so thus he left the world.
1094 If you are in doubt regarding what We have sent down to you, then ask those who have been acknowledging the Message from before you. The truth has come to you from your Lord, so do not be of those who doubt.
Red I daringly throw in a challenging translation here based on the word root which means acknowledge. There is a dog buried somewhere here in the understanding of the language, when you simply cut out a few letters it means acknowledge. I translated accordingly. Now I repeat that I use my own logic here and a bit of finesse although you know I am not an expert in Arabic. You see how much distortion there is in the Message due to interpretation misses. I had difficulties proving my Message theory on this verse so I begun to analyze the verse and discovered this which might be interesting to some people.
1099 And had your Lord willed, all the people on the earth in their entirety would have believed. Would you force the people to make them believe?
10100 And it is not for a soul to believe except with the permission of God. And He lets taint those who do not comprehend.
10101 Say ?Look at all that is in the heavens and the earth.? But what good are the signs and warnings to a people who do not believe?What is the intention of the Message really if you study it with an open heart? Personally I do this work that someone may be enlightened but I am not here to argue with those who are here to argue and if what I say does not make any sense then disregard it. But if you studied my thread from the start and applied some thinking to it I hope you understand that I am not only writing a lot of gibberish but somewhat useful things in the simple manner that the Message is.
10108 Say ?O people, the Truth has come to you from your Lord, so whoever is guided is being guided for himself, and whoever is misguided will remain so, and I am not a caretaker over you.?
10109 And follow what is being inspired to you and be patient until God judges. And He is the best of judges.RedYes. The Message that was proclaimed in The Book was the Truth that came to the people and there Muhammad's responsibility ended.
Blue This applies to anyone who holds Communion and establishes a tie to God. Else why use the conjunction 'and' (و after the preceding verse.Hence we see that even the Arabic 'noob' can interpret the Message. It has nothing to do with linguistic skill. I have fine experts who translated the verses so I can go in like in program code of a computer application and just analyze the code. Simple as that. If I break down the words into morphemes then they still carry their root meaning which other words are built upon and they generally do not very much from the root or at least the same fundamental meaning. As in the example of 1094 I am certain that the root of the word given example of means what I translated it to without complicating things and you see that it wonderfully suits the context, also considered you cannot read a Message in that regard, but you can acknowledge it. And I learned something new myself of Arabic grammar in the terms of vs and their usage which might be useful for other encounters of words. In 1094 (al-ketaab) could logically not been a book since there was no real book from before, but Messengers among them who brought the Message.
Dare to challenge what you know and see it in a new Light. I understand that my 1094 interpretation seems a bit far-fetched, but give it some thought and try to divide the morphemes of it and seek the root. When I saw this new Light of interpretation I have understood that people do not know as much about The Book as they claim. Not saying I know everything, but it gets clearer at least, and I know but very little Arabic, although I spot-analyze the text where I deem it necessary to check whether an interpreted meaning does really add up. None of the traditional understandings of add up for me. But changing the literal meaning of 'ketaab' and '/ ' gives a new Light to it.
(I am aware that my translation of as Message does not match with verses like 2282 since it implies on writing something down with traditional understanding and I am working on this with my limited Arabic skill. Totally frustrating when linguistically it does seem to add up coherently in the fluency of text. However, I have noted that the translation of 2282 and surrounding verses are very lackluster and I have a weird feeling that there is something fishy here. In fact I am very suspicious about 2282-286 as pertaining to the Message. Sorry now I think I am forced to learn Arabic for sure because I sense corruption.)
I hope you will not cast me out as a Rashad Khalifa copycat &
God bless you and good night
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Before I continue
First I have to apologize for involving myself in futile discussions and polluting the thread (and other threads) and thus derailing it a little, but now it is time to continue on chapter 10 and see that we can continue to show that the Message is very simple and is about having Faith in God and serving Him well by being good and doing good, and showing a good character. After all this analyzed text it is yet weird that people argue otherwise. I will try to concentrate on the Message from now on and less on those who do not contemplate the Message but rather argue on nonsense.
Chapter 10 Message check
Remember I have my own interpretation of The Book and thus it can seem different from standard translations. It is a modified Monotheist translation 2013 unless otherwise told. There is little change except for some words which I interpret a bit controversially, but I have also carefully thought this all through and over a longer period of time.
101 ALR, these are the signs of the Message of Wisdom.
To demonstrate my 'kitab' theory.
102 Is it a surprise for the people who We inspired a man from among them ?Warn the people and give good news to those who believe, that they will have a footing of truth with their Lord.? The rejecters said ?This is clearly magic!?
In the light of our previous discussion and what we have here; the Message is pretty clear.
103 Your Lord is God who has created the heavens and the earth in six days, then He settled upon the Throne; He manages all affairs. There is no intercessor except after His permission. Such is God your Lord, so serve Him. Would you not remember?
Red Remember as that this Book is not really the beginning of the Message but a Reminder of it. Yet people think there is something which separates the previous part of the Message at the advent of this Book.
Blue As usual people abuse this phrase.104 To Him is your return, all of you, for the promise of God is true. He initiates the creation then He returns it; to recompense with justice those who have believed and have done good works. As for those who have rejected, they will have a boiling drink, and a painful retribution for what they had rejected.
Red Anyone of those who had other Messengers and heed the Message of this Book or the previous Message. They are all the same Message. Cannot you see that there is not much changing in God's Message except that God perfected the system at the advent of this Book as before there were no collected scripture but in the 7th century there came a "hadith" from God, like something of a collector's edition, i.e. what was important from all the Messengers and the narrations are summarized in it and you got God's own expressions in the meantime, and not only the warnings and news from the mouths of the Messengers. Compare this Book to the brief inscriptions given to Moses millennia earlier.
105 He is the One who has made the sun a radiance, and the moon a light, and He has measured its phases; that you may know the number of the years and the count. God has not created this except with the truth. He clarifies the signs for a people who know.
106 In the difference between the night and the day and what God has created in the heavens and the earth are signs for a people who are aware.Red A big portion of The Book goes to give examples of what God has created that we may reflect. As I mentioned before God uses most part of The Book to mercifully implying to convince the reader that He is really real if one thinks about it.
107 As for those who do not wish to meet Us, and they are content with the worldly life, and they feel secure by it, and they are unaware of Our signs.
108 To these will be the destiny of the Fire for what they earned.
109 Those who (1) believe and (2) do good works, their Lord will guide them by their faith. Rivers will flow beneath them in gardens of bliss.Red Mostly to those who probably are atheists or hypocrite believers who only misbehave and do not really believe.
Blue Why do you think God writes only (1) believe and (2) do good then that He will guide them on a straight path? That is what the Messengers proclaim when they come around. This is why. People argue about tons of extra-religious stuff when the Message is so simple. Rely on the Lord and serve Him to the best of your ability and show your good character.1015 And when Our clear signs were recited to them, those who do not wish to meet Us said ?Bring a book other than this, or change it!? Say ?It is not for me to change it of my own accord, I merely follow what is inspired to me. I fear, if I disobeyed my Lord, the retribution of a great Day!?
1016 Say ?If God had willed, I would not have recited it to you, nor would you have known about it. I have been residing among you for nearly a lifetime before this; do you not comprehend??
1017 Who is more wicked than he who invents lies about God or denies His revelations? The criminals will never succeed.Red Book, not Qur'an, if you translate into English.
Blue His contemporaries could possibly have asked him to change The Book so that it added the pagan rituals Muslims world-over are anyways performing after Muhammad left this world. What Muhammad did not write down that they required they themselves wrote down in the mass of hearsay books later on.1019 The people were but one nation, then they differed. And had it not been for a previous command from your Lord, the matter would have been immediately judged between them for what they differed.
1020 And they say ?If only a sign was sent down to him from His Lord.? Say ?The future is with God, so wait, and I will wait with you.?Red The Messengers did not know the future.
Blue Obviously the Message has a tendency to split people, but it is mainly due to all resulting idolization and conjecture. People likely did not believe Muhammad because God suddenly sent an Arabic Prophet instead of the previous ones who spoke a different language. And history is prone to repeat itself if it came another Messenger in yet another language. Heed my words.1022 He is the One who carries you on land and on the sea. And when you are on the ships and We drive them with a good wind which they rejoice with, a strong gust comes to them and the waves come to them from all sides, and they think that they are finished, they implore God with loyalty and devotion to His system ?If You save us from this, we will be of the thankful.?
1023 But when He saves them, they then traverse through the land with injustice. ?O people, what you seek out is only the luxury of this worldly life, then to Us is your return and We will inform you of all that you had done.?Red When only God can save them then they implore God.
Blue But when there is no constant reminder of God then the majority forget about God. Note the injustice.1025 God calls to the abode of peace, and He guides those whom He wishes to a straight path.
1026 For those who (2) do good will be good and more, and their faces will not be darkened or humiliated. These are the people of the Paradise, in it they will abide.Red Note those whom HE wishes.
Blue And that is those who ... what? Yes, you are right, those who do good, nothing particularly complicated for good souls, and of course have Faith in God.1027 As for those who earn evil, the recompense of evil will be evil like it, and they will be humiliated. They do not have anyone to help them from God. It is as if their faces have been covered by a piece of darkness from the night. These are the people of the Fire, in it they will abide.
1028 And on the Day We gather them all, then We will say to those who were polytheists ?Stop where you are, you and your partners,? then We will separate between them, and their partners will say ?It was not us that you served!?
1029 ?God is enough as a witness between us and you, that we were unaware of you serving us.?Red Injustice, dogma and zealotry is among evil things.
Blue It is obvious that it is not about stone statues or other such materialistic idols God is talking about here but individuals that people idolized such as popular mullahs and other spiritual leaders, or Muhammad or Jesus..
Green And of course they have no link to this world once they were gone. They are completely unaware of this world after they proclaimed the Message.These people probably also generated tons of conjecture and attributed it to these individuals.
1031 Say ?Who provides for you from the heavens and the earth? Who possesses the hearing and the eyesight? And who brings the living out from the dead and brings the dead out from the living? And who manages all affairs?? They will say ?God.? Say ?Will you not be righteous!?
1032 Such is God, your true Lord. So what is after the truth except straying! Why then do you turn away?
1033 It was thus that the command of your Lord came against those who were wicked, for they did not believe.Red Is it not obvious that most of all that God implies in The Book is for people to believe?
1036 Most of them only follow conjecture. While conjecture does not avail against the Truth in anything. God is aware of what they do.
1037 This Book could not have been produced without God; it is to authenticate what is between his hands, and to give details of the Message in which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds.
1038 Or do they say ?He has invented it!? Say ?Then bring a chapter like it, and call on whom you can besides God if you are truthful.?
1039 No, they have lied about that which they had no Knowledge, nor has its explanation come to them. It is also how those before them denied, so see how was the retribution of the wicked!
1040 And there are some of them who believe in it, and some of them do not believe in it. Your Lord is better aware of the transgressors.Red I cannot understand that people do not see that Qur'an is Book and Kitab is Message in the context of The Book.
Blue The same would be said if there came a revelation in English as of today, for example.
Green Absolutely most everyone would use the expression above if a Messenger suddenly emerged in this age with a refreshment of the Message in its pristine form, except for a few.
Purple If there came yet another reminder of the Message today many people would reject it, but a few would believe. It is always few people who adhere to the Message and has always been.1041 And if they deny you, then say ?I have my deeds, and you have your deeds. You are innocent from what I do, and I am innocent from what you do.?
1042 And there are some of them who listen to you; but can you make the deaf hear, if they do not comprehend?
1043 And there are some of them who look at you; but can you guide the blind, if they do not see?Red It obviously falls down on the deeds again (2) and this only highlights its importance in God's system. Do good and not bad.
1059 Say ?Have you seen what God has sent down to you from provisions, then you have made some of it forbidden and some lawful?? Say ?Did God authorize you, or do you invent lies about God??
Red All the stuff in this world that people deem haram or halal without God's authorization goes under this.
1061 And any matter you are in, or any reciting you do of the Book, or any work you do; We are witnesses over you when you undertake it. Nothing is hidden from your Lord, not even the weight of an atom on the earth or in the heavens, nor smaller than that nor larger, except it is in a clear record.
Red I.e God is aware of everything you do.
1062 For the allies of God, there is no fear over them nor will they grieve.
1063 Those who have (1) believed and are aware.1078 They said ?Have you come to us to turn us away from that which we found our fathers upon, and so that you two would have greatness in the land? We will not believe in you.?
Red Most people would say the same today to defend the traditions.
1083 But none believed in Moses from his people except some from their descendants, because of their fear from Pharaoh and his commanders that he would persecute them. Pharaoh was high in the land, and he was of the tyrants.
Red They were more afraid of Pharaoh which was visible than in God which they could not see. The same could be related to today in certain places many people are often afraid of expressing their true Faith in fear of persecution.
1087 And We inspired to Moses and his brother ?You shall seek out homes for your people in Egypt; and leave your homes to be a focal point, and hold the Communion. And give good news to the believers.?
1088 And Moses said ?Our Lord, you have given Pharaoh and his commanders adornments and wealth in this worldly life so that they will misguide from Your path. Our Lord, wipe out their wealth and bring grief to their hearts; for they will not believe until they see the painful retribution.?
1089 He said ?Your call has been responded to, so keep straight and do not follow the path of those who do not know.?Moses established a strong bond to God together with some faithful people and held a Communion in which he prayed for this and God granted him his wish.
1090 And We helped the Children of Israel cross the sea, and Pharaoh and his soldiers followed them out of hatred and animosity. But when he was certain to drown, he said ?I believe that there is no god except the One in whom the Children of Israel believe, and I am of those who have submitted.?
1091 ?Now you say this? While before you disobeyed and were of the corrupters!?
1092 ?This day, We will preserve your body, so that you become a sign for those after you.? But most of the people are unaware of Our signs!Red Pharaoh held one final Communion, perhaps the first in his life and God clearly responded in such a way He normally only does to those who believe in God and frequently do Communion and have reached a strong bonding. This was because the next moment God made the flood drown the disobedient Pharaoh anyway so thus he left the world.
1094 If you are in doubt regarding what We have sent down to you, then ask those who have been acknowledging the Message from before you. The truth has come to you from your Lord, so do not be of those who doubt.
Red I daringly throw in a challenging translation here based on the word root which means acknowledge. There is a dog buried somewhere here in the understanding of the language, when you simply cut out a few letters it means acknowledge. I translated accordingly. Now I repeat that I use my own logic here and a bit of finesse although you know I am not an expert in Arabic. You see how much distortion there is in the Message due to interpretation misses. I had difficulties proving my Message theory on this verse so I begun to analyze the verse and discovered this which might be interesting to some people.
1099 And had your Lord willed, all the people on the earth in their entirety would have believed. Would you force the people to make them believe?
10100 And it is not for a soul to believe except with the permission of God. And He lets taint those who do not comprehend.
10101 Say ?Look at all that is in the heavens and the earth.? But what good are the signs and warnings to a people who do not believe?What is the intention of the Message really if you study it with an open heart? Personally I do this work that someone may be enlightened but I am not here to argue with those who are here to argue and if what I say does not make any sense then disregard it. But if you studied my thread from the start and applied some thinking to it I hope you understand that I am not only writing a lot of gibberish but somewhat useful things in the simple manner that the Message is.
10108 Say ?O people, the Truth has come to you from your Lord, so whoever is guided is being guided for himself, and whoever is misguided will remain so, and I am not a caretaker over you.?
10109 And follow what is being inspired to you and be patient until God judges. And He is the best of judges.RedYes. The Message that was proclaimed in The Book was the Truth that came to the people and there Muhammad's responsibility ended.
Blue This applies to anyone who holds Communion and establishes a tie to God. Else why use the conjunction 'and' (و after the preceding verse.Hence we see that even the Arabic 'noob' can interpret the Message. It has nothing to do with linguistic skill. I have fine experts who translated the verses so I can go in like in program code of a computer application and just analyze the code. Simple as that. If I break down the words into morphemes then they still carry their root meaning which other words are built upon and they generally do not very much from the root or at least the same fundamental meaning. As in the example of 1094 I am certain that the root of the word given example of means what I translated it to without complicating things and you see that it wonderfully suits the context, also considered you cannot read a Message in that regard, but you can acknowledge it. And I learned something new myself of Arabic grammar in the terms of vs and their usage which might be useful for other encounters of words. In 1094 (al-ketaab) could logically not been a book since there was no real book from before, but Messengers among them who brought the Message.
Dare to challenge what you know and see it in a new Light. I understand that my 1094 interpretation seems a bit far-fetched, but give it some thought and try to divide the morphemes of it and seek the root. When I saw this new Light of interpretation I have understood that people do not know as much about The Book as they claim. Not saying I know everything, but it gets clearer at least, and I know but very little Arabic, although I spot-analyze the text where I deem it necessary to check whether an interpreted meaning does really add up. None of the traditional understandings of add up for me. But changing the literal meaning of 'ketaab' and '/ ' gives a new Light to it.
(I am aware that my translation of as Message does not match with verses like 2282 since it implies on writing something down with traditional understanding and I am working on this with my limited Arabic skill. Totally frustrating when linguistically it does seem to add up coherently in the fluency of text. However, I have noted that the translation of 2282 and surrounding verses are very lackluster and I have a weird feeling that there is something fishy here. In fact I am very suspicious about 2282-286 as pertaining to the Message. Sorry now I think I am forced to learn Arabic for sure because I sense corruption.)
I hope you will not cast me out as a Rashad Khalifa copycat &
God bless you and good night
I will try to concentrate on the Message from now on and less on those who do not contemplate the Message but rather argue on nonsense.
You really are . . . aren't you?
It is an essential and basic question . . . who is sending you messages? Something which you have not been able to answer. But are still trying to push nonsense about.
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Before I continue, again
Okay. Last time we went through chapter 10 and I did some possibly amazing discoveries, but I am not yet ready to reevaluate the last verses of chapter 2. I only consider something suspicious at this time. It could also be that the verses are completely misunderstood from the original Arabic. It does not affect my understanding that 'ketaab' means an abstract Message in the context of The Book. Anyway, form your own opinion in case you do not agree or choose to follow the best and ignore the rest. We will return to that topic at a later time. The whole point with this thread; to repeat it once more, is to discuss the chain of Faith, i.e. Nearness and Guidance which leads to Knowledge and Wisdom through the Grace of God and thus eventually lead to Peace and Prosperity and absolute certainty. As you might have understood by now I have to proclaim the Message to be able to help someone approach the chain of Faith as in to know what the Message means. Like I said, and the Message says (1) Believe in God and (2) be of a goodly character. It is as simple as that basically.
Chapter 11 Message check
111 ALR, a Message in which its revelations have been made lawgiving, then detailed, from One who is Wise, Expert.
112 ?That you shall serve none other than God. I am to you from Him a warner and a bearer of good news.?
113 ?And seek forgiveness from your Lord, then repent to Him; He will provide you with good provisions to an appointed term. And He bestows His grace upon those who are of grace.? And if they turn away ?Indeed, I fear for you the retribution of a great day!?Red This is practically the Message; (1) Faith in the One and (2) seek forgiveness and repent, and reform.
Blue The limitation of the Messenger's duty. The obedience to the Messenger so often abused in The Book is basically to "hearken unto the Message".1111 Except for those who are (1) patient and (2) do good works; these will have a pardon, and a great reward.
Red This is a test of Faith and often comes to the person who seeks the Truth that they might not see results in their service of God until quite a long while and many people who are not steadfast eventually turn away from God because they did not have patience to see that God is really real with their own intuition.
1117 For those who are on a clarity from their Lord, and are followed by a testimony from Him; and before it was the Message of Moses, a beacon and a mercy; they will believe in it. And whoever rejects it from among the Confederates, then the Fire is his meeting place. So do not be in any doubt about it. It is the truth from your Lord, but most of the people do not believe.
1123 Those who (1) believe and (2) do good works, and are humble towards their Lord; they are the dwellers of the Paradise, in it they will remain.
Believe and do good, believe and do good, believe and do good; how many times have you done good this last year?
When Noah came with the Message to his people (Believe (1) and (2) do good)
1125 And We had sent Noah to his people (3) ?I am to you a clear warner!?
1126 (1) ?That you serve none except God. I fear for you the retribution of a painful day.?
1127 The leaders who rejected from among his people said (-3, -1) ?We do not see you except as a human being like us, and we see that only the lowest among our people who have no opinion have followed you. And we do not see a thing that makes you better than us; in fact, we think you are liars.?
1128 He said ?O my people, do you see that should I be upon a clarity from my Lord, and He has given me a mercy from Himself, that you may be blinded to it? Shall we compel you to it while in-fact you hate it??
1129 ?And my people, I do not ask you for money, my wage is from God. Nor will I turn away those who believe, for they will meet their Lord. But I see that you are a people who are ignorant.?
1130 ?And my people, who will give me victory against God if I turn them away? Will you not remember!?
1131 ?Nor do I say to you that I have the treasures of God, nor do I know the future, nor do I say that I am an angel, (-2) nor do I say to those whom your eyes look down upon that God will not grant them any good. God is more aware of what is in their souls; in such case I would be among the wicked.?
1132 They said ?O Noah, you have argued with us, and continued arguing with us, so bring us what you promise us if you are of the truthful ones.?
1133 He said ?It is God who will bring it to you if He wishes; you will not have any escape.?
1134 ?And my advice will not benefit you if I wanted to advise you and God wanted that you should go astray. He is your Lord, and to Him you will return.?< -- >
1145 And Noah called on his Lord, and he said ?My Lord, my son is from my family, and your promise is the truth, and you are the Wisest of all Judges.?
1146 He said ?O Noah, he is not from your family, he was of an unrighteous deed, so do not ask what you have no knowledge of. I advise you not to be of the ignorant.?
1147 He said ?My Lord, I seek refuge with You from asking You what I do not have knowledge of. And if You do not forgive me and have mercy on me, I will be of the losers!?
1148 It was said ?O Noah, descend in peace from Us and blessings upon you and upon nations to come from those with you. And nations whom We will give enjoyment, then a painful retribution will reach them from Us.?The Message is pretty clear what God wanted to have conveyed.
1149 This is from the news of the unseen that We inspire to you. Neither did you nor your people know this, so be patient; the ending will be for the righteous.
Orange The audience of The Book is the people about 1400 years ago no matter what people claim. The Message is just the same as before or nowadays, but it is just an observation worth noticing. It was likely one of the miracles that Muhammad the Prophet had such Knowledge of things which the previous receivers of the Message kept to themselves as The Book clarifies.
1150 And to ?Aad was sent their brother Hud. He said (1) ?My people, serve God, you have no god besides Him; you are simply conjecturing.?
1151 ?My people, I do not ask you for any wage, my wage is from the One who has initiated me. Will you not comprehend??
1152 ?And my people, seek forgiveness from your Lord, then repent to Him; He will send the sky to you abundantly, and He will add might to your might. So do not turn away as criminals.?
1153 They said ?O Hud, you have not come to us with any proof, nor will we leave our gods based on what you say. We will not believe in you.?
1154 ?All we can say is that perhaps some of our gods have seized you with evil.? He said ?I make God my witness, and all of you witness, that I am innocent of what you have set up.?
1155 ?Besides Him, so plan against me all of you, then do not give me respite.?
1156 (1) * ?I have placed my trust in God, my Lord and your Lord. There is not a creature except He will seize it by its forelock. My Lord is on a straight path.?
1157 ?So, if you turn away, then I have delivered what I have been sent to you with, and my Lord will bring after you a people who are not like you; and you cannot harm Him the least. My Lord is Guardian over all things.?
1158 And when Our command came, We saved Hud and those who had believed with him by a mercy from Us, and We saved them from a mighty retribution.
1159 Such was the case of ?Aad. They disregarded the revelations of their Lord, and they disobeyed His messengers, and they followed the command of every stubborn tyrant.- Famous quote, is it not?
Green Their error was that they listened to the conjecture blindly and they did not use their own brains. I swear that the same thing would happen again if there was a Messenger coming around.
It seems that the people have a slightly different warning they need if there came a revelation from God today as the same kind of polytheism is not the main problem today but rather the tons of conjecture associated with the system of God. However, we must remember that some people still believe that God has associates such as Jesus and Buddha etc. And they believe Jesus is a mediator between God and the people and that Jesus can intercede. Sadly Muhammad has nearly this status too as in certain groups Muhammad has this power of intercession. Most probably they would use the Messengers they have taken as lords to argue against you if you would become a Messenger and proclaim the Message, and they would defend their tons of conjecture.
1161 And to Thamud was their brother Saleh. He said (1) ?O my people, serve God, you have no god besides Him. He has established you from the earth, and has made you settle in it; so seek His forgiveness, then repent to Him. My Lord is Near, Responsive.?
1162 They said ?O Saleh, you were well liked among us before this. Do you prohibit us from serving what our fathers served? We are in serious doubt as to what you are inviting us.?
1163 He said ?O my people, do you see that should I be upon a clarity from my Lord, and He has given me a mercy from Himself. Who would then support me against God if I disobey Him? You would only increase me in loss!?
1164 ?And O my people, this is the camel of God, in her you have a sign. So leave her to eat from God?s earth freely, and do not harm her, or else a close retribution will take you.?
1165 But they slaughtered her. So he said ?Take enjoyment in your dwellings for three days. This is a promise not to be denied.?
1166 So, when Our command came, We saved Saleh and those who had believed with him by a mercy from Us and against the disgrace of that day. Your Lord is the Powerful, the Noble.
1167 And those who had wronged were taken by the scream, thus they became lifeless in their homes.
1168 It is as if they had never lived there. For Thamud (-1) rejected their Lord. So away with Thamud.So what is the Message really?
1169 And Our messengers came to Abraham with good news, they said ?Peace? He said ?Peace,? and he made no delay in bringing a roasted calf.
1170 But when he saw that their hands did not go towards it, he mistrusted them, and he began to have fear of them. They said ?Have no fear, we have been sent to the people of Lot.?
1171 And his wife was standing, so she laughed when We gave her the good news of Isaac, and after Isaac, Jacob.
1172 She said ?O my! Shall I give birth when I am an old woman, and here is my husband an old man? This is indeed a strange thing!?
1173 They said ?Do you wonder at the decree of God? The mercy of God and blessings are upon you O people of the Sanctuary. He is Praiseworthy, Glorious.?
1174 So when the shock left Abraham, and the good news was delivered to him, he began to argue with Us for the people of Lot.
1175 Abraham was compassionate, kind, obedient.
1176 ?O Abraham, turn away from this. The command of your Lord has been passed, and a retribution that will not be turned back is coming for them.?Green Abraham's wife must have had a slightly weak Faith.
Purple We must remember that Messengers can come in the form as controllers/angels and thus we may not immediately understand that they are just that. It is something to keep in mind although a minimal minority of the Believers will ever have the chance in this life.Abraham was surely a good role model of a staunch Believer in God and as a personality. It is frequently narrated that Abraham is a very good example. He used the roasted calf as a test for the guests that came to his house.
1177 And when Our messengers came to Lot, he was grieved by them and he felt discomfort for them and he said ?This is a distressful day.?
1178 And his people came rushing towards him, and before it they were committing sin, he said (2) ?My people, these are my daughters, they are purer for you, so be aware of God and do not disgrace me regarding my guests. Is there no wise man among you??
1179 They said ?You know we have no interest in your daughters, and (-2) you are aware of what we want!?
1180 He said ?If only I had strength against you, or I could find for myself some powerful support.?
1181 They said ?O Lot, we are messengers of your Lord; they will not be able to harm you, so travel with your family during the cover of the night and let not any of you look back except for your wife, she will be afflicted with what they will be afflicted. Their scheduled time will be the morning. Is the morning not near??
1182 So when Our command came, We made its highest part become its lowest, and We rained on it with hardened fiery projectiles.
1183 Marked from your Lord, and they are never far from the wicked.Although "sodomy" is the crime in this narration it can hardly be the only problem since also Lot's wife is killed. I am not sure if it has to do with that Lot's wife was told not to look back when they ran for the mountains but she did that and was immediately killed. But here you see that Lot knew even before that she was going to be killed. Sodomy can only be part of the story.
1184 And to Midyan was their brother Shu?ayb, he said ?My people, (1) serve God, you have no god besides Him, and (2) do not give short in the measure and the weight. I see you in prosperity, and I fear for you the retribution of a day that is surrounding.?
1185 ?And my people, give (2) full in the measure and the weight equitably, and do not hold back from the people what is theirs, and do not roam the land corrupting.?
1186 ?What will remain for you with God is far better if you are believers. And I am not a guardian over you.?
1187 They said ?O Shu?ayb, does your Communion order you that we (-1) leave what our fathers served, or (-2) that we do not do with our money as we please? It seems only you are the compassionate, the wise!?
1188 He said ?O my people, do you see that if I am on clear evidence from my Lord, and He has provided me with good provision from Him, (2) then I would not want to contradict by doing what I am prohibiting you from. I only want to make right what I can, and my guidance is only with God. To Him I place my trust, and to Him I repent.?
1189 ?And my people, let not your hatred towards me incriminate you that you suffer the fate of what afflicted the people of Noah, or the people of Hud, or the people of Saleh; and the people of Lot were not far off from you.?
1190 ?And seek forgiveness from your Lord then repent to Him. My Lord is Merciful, Loving.?
1191 They said ?O Shu?ayb, we do not understand most of what you say, and we see you as (-2) weak among us; and if it were not for who your family is, we would have stoned you, and you would not be proud against us.?
1192 He said ?My people, is who my family is more important to you than God, while you have cast Him away behind your backs? My Lord is encompassing what you do.?
1193 ?And my people, (-2) continue to act as you do, and I will act. You will then come to know to whom the retribution will come to humiliate him and who is the liar. Watch then, and I will watch with you.?
1194 And when Our command came, We saved Shu?ayb and those who believed with him by a mercy from Us; and the scream took those who had wronged, thus they became lifeless in their homes.
1195 It is as if they had never lived there. Away with Midyan as it was away with Thamud.In 1187 it is clear that the 'salah' is communication/bonding with God with the possibility to have like a "data uplink" to God. I continue to refer to it by the English word Communion. Communion channels inspiration to the user who performs it constantly and with great devotion, but it should always be regarded as a kind of direct communication to the Lord. Shu'ayb's people asked if God channeled inspiration to him that they should abandon their idols. This seems to quite clearly put the basis of a Communion (salat) to have a pretty straight-forward meaning and non so complicated, and especially not just ramblings of words in a series like in a recurring monotone ritual. It has an immediate meaning when you perform Communion (as-salat).
1188 It shows that Shu'ayb must not to have been perfect but also sinning at times which he admits. Some people claim that Messengers are free from sin or error, but this is not the case; not with Muhammad nor this nor other ones.
11110 And We gave Moses the Message, yet they disputed in it; and had it not been for a word which was already given by your Lord, their case would have been judged immediately. They are in grave doubt concerning it.
11111 And to each your Lord will recompense their works. He is expert in what they do.Blue We are all different communities. And we will all the held responsible for our deeds. God seems to differentiate between all these people and He did not intend that we play Muhammad & Co copycats 1400 years later but advocate belief in the One and do good by advocating justice and preventing evil. Communion is simply communication to the Lord although one may choose to kneel or prostrate on own volition towards the Master. With The Book you have a great guide, but remember that God's pen does never run dry but has an endless supply.
11114 And hold the Communion at two parts of the day, and the near part of the night. The good deeds take away the bad. This is a reminder to those who remember.
11118 And if your Lord had wished, He could have made all the people one nation, but they still would have continued to disagree.
Red This is true, even if we were not "Quranist", "hadith-rejectors", Sunni Muslims, Shia Muslims or name whatever you like; we would still argue about things and fantasize in conjecture and complicating things.
11121 And say to those who do not believe ?Continue to do what you will, we will also do.?
11122 ?And wait, for we are also waiting.?Could be the easiest was to dismiss instead of painfully arguing with someone who does only argue for the sake of proving someone wrong instead of humbly trying to contemplate what they are saying. I may use this advice.
Happy new 2014 everyone!
God bless you!
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Peace Man of Faith,
Sorry if you think I am just intruding here but I'd like to say thanks for this wonderful thread. To be honest I have never read the contents in this thread even though I have noticed the title of this thread but since a few weeks ago I think I am interested to learn from this thread D
May God bless you pr
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Peace Yuliana,
No worries, thank the Lord for enlightening me.
I understand that my thread can be a heavy reading, but I have tried recently to improve the layout of the posts that they are easier to evaluate and link the information to my commentary. I did not really intend to ever explain The Book, but I felt I had to load a heavier caliber in my gun so as to prove more intricately that the Message is simple by together with the prospective readers analyze and see the discourse from a fluent and linguistic point of view. And you have seen that no translations made sense in some verses before I experimented on the words and their meaning, and I did not invent a new meaning on most words, but only scattered the words into morphemes, roots, and then reattempted the deciphering.
Only words that I was really daring was on ketaab and qur'an, where I have without real evidence changed their meaning, but that because they simply do not suit the contexts they are in. They must be mistakes by those who have been reading The Book over the centuries. So I still stand by from a fluency of text point of view that ketaab is message and qur'an is plainly book. It is basically not so hard to understand that quran is book however.
Anyway, it is to proclaim the simple Message underneath all the things man has made complicated about God, such as salat. You saw that the salat is to channel information and a tie to God. Wakas found its basic meaning and it is no more than that. Its root word is even used in a context of daily Arabic communication. Believe and be mindful of God and do good deeds, that is what God has prescribed for us.
EDIT The thread's original purpose was to link The Book to a more graphical and streamlined way of perceiving it and you saw my circular diagram if you looked earlier in the thread. But I took the liberty to proving my stance of the Message's simplicity by going through all the relevant portions of The Book to show I am right without trying to be arrogant. I only try to serve the Lord and I could keep all this to myself and tell no one, but I see it as part of my charity. It is not like I gain anything except from the Lord, and, God willing, you benefit from it in the meantime.
God bless you
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Chapter 12 Message check
121 ALR, these are the signs of the clarifying Message.
122 We have sent it down an Arabic book, perhaps you will comprehend.
123 We tell to you the best stories through what We have inspired to you in this Book; and before it you were of those who were unaware.128 For they said ?Joseph and his brother are more loved by our father than us, while we are a numerous group. Our father is clearly misguided.?
1221 And he from Egypt who had bought him said to his wife ?Make his stay generous, perhaps he will benefit us or we may take him as a son.? And it was thus that We established Joseph in the land and to teach him the interpretation of the narrations. And God has full control over his situation, but most of the people do not know.
1222 And when he reached his independence, We gave him judgement and knowledge. It is thus that We reward the good doers.Red Obviously what Joseph did was right in the "eyes of God".
1250 And the king said ?Bring him to me.? So when the messenger came to him, he said ?Go back to your lord and ask him what was the matter regarding the women who cut their hands? Indeed, my Lord is aware of their plans.?
1251 He said ?What is your plea that you tried to seduce Joseph from himself?? They said ?God be sought! We know of no evil on his part.? The wife of the governor said ?Now the truth must be known, I did seek (-2) to seduce Joseph from himself and he is of the truthful ones.?
1252 ?That is so he knows that I will not betray him while he is not present and that God does not guide the planning of the betrayers.?
1253 ?And I do not make myself free of blame, for the soul is inclined to sin, except that which my Lord has mercy upon. My Lord is Forgiving, Merciful.?Red What is the Message here if you are Truthful?
1256 And it was such that We gave Joseph authority in the land, to travel in it as he pleases. We bestow Our mercy upon whom We please, and We do not waste the reward of the (2) good doers.
1257 And the reward of the Hereafter is better for those who (1) believe and are aware.1267 And he said ?My sons, do not enter from one gate, but enter from separate gates; and I cannot avail you anything against God, for the judgment is to God. In Him I place my trust, and in Him those who place their trust should trust.?
1268 And when they entered from where their father had commanded them, it would not have availed them in the least against God, but it was out of a concern in the soul of Jacob that he brought out. And he is with knowledge for what We taught him, but most of the people do not know.
1269 And when they entered upon Joseph, he called his brother to himself and said ?I am your brother, so do not be saddened by what they have done.?Red It is obvious that Jacob suspected that it was Joseph that was there in Egypt because clearly the reason he told them to enter through separate gates was that Joseph could get hold on his brother without the others knowing.
1284 And he turned away from them and said ?Oh, my sorrow over Joseph.? And his eyes turned white from sadness, and he became blind.
1285 They said ?By God, you will never cease to remember Joseph until you become senile or become dead!?
1286 He said ?I merely complain my grief and sorrow to God, and (3) I know from God what you do not know.?
1287 ?My sons, go and inquire about Joseph and his brother, and do not despair from the spirit of God. The only ones who would despair from the spirit of God are the people who are rejecters.?1289 He said ?Do you know what you have done with (-2) Joseph and his brother, while you were ignorant??
Red It is obvious that there is more to the story than only in the narration of The Book.
1292 He said ?There is no blame on you this day, may God forgive you, and He is the Most Merciful of those who show mercy.?
1293 ?Take this shirt of mine and cast it over the face of my father, and he will have sight; and bring to me all your family.?Red Sometimes the narrations are a bit strange but also a test of Faith.
Blue Joseph forgave rather than punished even if he could easily have punished them harshly for all that they had done thanks to his position. It is simply following the Message.1294 And when the caravan departed, their father said ?I do indeed feel the scent of Joseph, except that you may think me senile.?
1295 They said ?By God, you are back to your old misguidance.?
1296 Then, when the bearer of good news came, he cast it over his face and he regained sight. He said ?Did I not tell you that I know from God what you do not know??Red There is indeed some subtle humor in God's narrations, although only faint, that God brought in exactly what Jacob uttered in his household.
1297 They said ?Our father, ask forgiveness for our sins, indeed we were wrongdoers.?
1298 He said ?I will ask forgiveness for you from my Lord, He is the Forgiving, the Merciful.?Red These were really righteous people.
12100 And he raised his parents upon the throne, and they fell in prostration to Him. And he said ?My father, this is the interpretation of my vision from before. My Lord has made it true, and He has been good to me that he took me out of prison and brought you out of the wilderness (-2) after the devil had made bitterness between me and my brothers. My Lord is Kind to whom He wills. He is the Knowledgeable, the Wise.?
Red It explains a lot, does it not?
12101 ?My Lord, You have given me sovereignty and taught me the interpretation of the narrations. Initiator of the heavens and the earth, You are my protector in this world and the Hereafter. Let me die as one who has (1) submitted, and join me with the (2) good doers.?
12102 That is from the news of the unseen that We inspire to you. You were not among them when they arranged their plan and were scheming.
12103 And most of the people, even if you are diligent, (-1) will not believe.
12104 And you are not asking them for any wage, it is but a reminder to the worlds.
12105 And how many a sign in the heavens and the earth do they pass by, while they are turning away from it.
12106 And most of them will (-1) not believe in God except while setting up partners.12109 And We have not sent before you except men, to whom We gave inspiration, from the people of the towns. Will they not roam the earth and see how was the punishment of those before them? And the abode of the Hereafter is far better for those who are aware. Do you not comprehend?
Red That is right. The Messengers were blessed men with who rose in rank and because of their staunch Faith were chosen ones. God chooses whom He pleases from among His servants to deliver His revelations. It could be you, it could be me, if we happened to reach far on the Faith scale. No reason to treat our Messengers as kings. I would never want to be called lord if I was a Messenger, but that every pious Believer would focus on the Lord above, the One, the Most Magnificent.
12110 Then, when the messengers gave up, and they thought that they have been denied, Our victory came to them. We then save whom We wish, and Our punishment cannot be swayed from the wicked people.
12111 In their stories is a lesson for those who possess intelligence. It is not a narration that has been invented, but an authentication of what is between his hands and a detailing of all things, and (3) a guidance and a mercy for a people (1) who believe.Red And the Messengers were not supermen; they could lose self-confidence but what separated them was that they would never lose Faith in God.
Blue And certainly there is a reason why a big part of The Book contains of stories of the Messengers of old that we may learn from the events of all kind of moral issues, such as the one about Joseph and his brothers.
What do you think the Message was? Well here comes a hint again (and you can see what my numbers (1), (2) and (3) stand for)
| http//farm6.staticflickr.com/5546/10816793444_18c10caea7.jpg
| What my (1), (2) and (3) generally refers to in previous and future posts unless otherwise told• Belief in God/Faith
• Righteousness/Actions
• Belief in Realm/Faith
God bless you
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Chapter 13 Message check
131 ALMR, these are the signs of the Message. And what has been sent down to you from your Lord is the truth; but most of the people (-1) do not believe.
136 And they hasten towards you with (-2) evil before good, and the examples of those before them have already been given. And your Lord is with forgiveness towards the people for their transgression, and your Lord is severe in retribution.
1315 And to God will submit all who are in the heavens and the earth, willingly and unwillingly, as do their shadows in the morning and the evening.
It does not make sense with this verse as prostrate. The verse means more that everything is obeying His will, willingly or unwillingly, if God wills something and it has to follow His system, including the laws of nature and such.
The chapter is demonstrating the power of God and why it is illogical not to believe in God. The language used fits a civilization 1400 years ago and might not always impress the reader nowadays although it is true regardless. The allegories God uses here are often abused by atheists to falsify The Book.
The righteous believe, keep the bond and do good
1320 Those who fulfill the pledge of God, and they do not break the covenant.
1321 And those who (2) deliver what God has ordered to be delivered, and they are concerned towards their Lord and they fear a terrible reckoning.
1322 And those who are patient seeking the face of their Lord; and they hold the (1) Communion, and they (2) spend from what We have bestowed upon them secretly and openly, and they (2) counter evil with good; these will have an excellent abode.
1323 The gardens of delight; which they will enter (2) with those who are good doers from their fathers and their mates and their progeny. And the angels will enter upon them from every gate.
1324 ?Peace be upon you for what you have been patient for. Excellent indeed is the final abode.?
While those who are unrighteous only spread mischief
1325 As for those who break their pledge with God after having made its covenant, and they (-2) withhold what God has ordered to be delivered, and they (-2) cause corruption on the earth; upon those is a curse and they will have a miserable abode.
1326 God gives the provisions for whom He wishes, and He is Capable. And they (-3) were happy with the worldly life, but the worldly life compared to the Hereafter is nothing except a brief enjoyment.
1327 And those who have rejected say ?If only a sign were sent down to him from his Lord!? Say ?God misguides whom He wishes and guides to Him whoever is repenting.
1329 The ones who have (1) believed, and have (2) done good works, there will be happiness for them and a wonderful abode.
1330 Thus, We have sent you to a nation, as with other nations before it, so that you may tell them that which has been inspired to you; while they are still rejecting the Almighty. Say ?He is my Lord, there is no god except He, in Him I place my trust and to Him is my repentance.?
1336 And those to whom We have previously given the Message rejoice at what has been sent down to you, but there are some from the Confederates who reject parts of it. Say ?I am only ordered to (1) serve God and not set up any partner with Him. Towards Him I implore and towards Him is the return.?
1337 And as such, We have sent it down a law which is in Arabic. And if you follow their desires after what has come to you of the Knowledge, then you will not have any ally or defender against God.
1338 And We have sent messengers before you and We have made for them mates and offspring. It was not for a messenger to come with any sign except with the permission of God; for each period there is a Message.
1339 God erases and confirms what He wishes, and with Him is the source of the Message.1343 And those who reject say ?You are not a messenger.? Say ?God is enough as a witness between me and you; the One who has the knowledge of the Message.?
God bless you
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Chapter 14 Message check
141 ALR, a Message which We have sent down to you so that you may bring the people out of the darkness and into the Light with the permission of their Lord, to the Path of the Noble, the Praiseworthy.
144 And We have not sent any messenger except in the language of his people, so he may clarify for them. But God misguides whom He wills, and He guides whom He wills. And He is the Noble, the Wise
Red It is thus strange that we use Arabic when God has promised the Messengers speaking the language of his people. This phrase ought to question the obsession with Arabic and its importance for the Message, and that it just happened that these people got their presentation of the Message in this language in the 7th century.
145 And We sent Moses with Our signs ?You shall bring your people out of the darkness and into the light, and remind them of the days of God.? In this are signs for everyone patient and thankful.
146 And Moses said to his people ?Remember the blessings of God upon you that He saved you from the people of Pharaoh; they were afflicting you with the worst punishment, and they used to slaughter your children, and rape your women. And in that was a great test from your Lord.?In all the happenings occurring with the Messengers presence here on Earth it is primarily to remember what God did for you and not the Messengers who channeled God's words. Despite this the Messengers tend to have exaggerated importance and idolization to their name.
147 And your Lord proclaimed ?If you give thanks, I will increase for you, but if you are rejecting, then My retribution is severe.?
This ought to be what rejecting God is; to not give appreciation and remain completely heedless of Him no matter if you have Knowledge or not. We ought to keep in mind what God's definition of rejection is. Often it seems that you can know that God exists but you "forget" about Him, lose focus.
149 Did not news come to you of those before you the people of Noah, and ?Aad, and Thamud, and those after them whom none know except God? Their messengers came to them with clarity, but they placed their hands onto their mouths and said ?We are rejecting what you have been sent with, and we are in doubt as to what you are inviting us to.?
1410 Their messengers said ?Is there doubt regarding God, the initiator of the heavens and the earth? He invites you so that He may forgive some of your sins, and delay you to an appointed term.? They said ?You are merely human beings like us; you wish to turn us away from what our fathers used to serve. So come to us with a clear proof.?
1411 Their messengers said ?We are indeed human beings like you, but God will bestow His grace upon whom He pleases from His servants. And it is not up to us to bring you proof except with the permission of God. And in God the believers should place their trust?
1412 ?And why should we not place our trust in God, when He has guided us in our paths. And we will be patient to the harm you inflict upon us. And in God those who trust should place their trust.?
1413 And those who rejected said to their messengers ?We will expel you from our land, or you will return to our creed.? It was then that their Lord inspired to them ?We will destroy the wicked.?The Messengers practically preached the same Message in this summary by God and so did Muhammad and Jesus. No more no less.
The losers
1421 And they appeared before God, all of them. And the weak ones said to those who were arrogant ?We were following you, so will you avail us anything from the retribution of God?? They said ?If God had guided us, then we would have guided you. It makes no difference if we cry out or are patient, for we have no refuge.?
1422 And the devil said when the matter was complete ?God had promised you the promise of truth, and I promised you and broke my promise. And I had no power over you except that I invited you and you responded to me. So do not blame me, but blame yourselves; I cannot help you nor can you help me. I reject that you have set me up as a partner before this; the wicked will have a painful retribution.?Green They foolishly followed their spiritual leaders when they uttered complete nonsense which had no basis in the Message and prohibitions never authorized by God.
Blue The devil is an invisible but powerful deceiver and is most efficient when humans distance themselves to God and thus loses His protection, and when we give in to our lusts.
But the righteous Believers were these (who mainly upheld these criteria)
1423 And those who (1) believed and did (2) good works were admitted to estates with rivers flowing beneath them. In them they will abide with the permission of their Lord. Their greeting therein is ?Peace.?
It is incredible how many times God repeats this phrase throughout The Book and people still complicate the Message.
1424 Have you not seen how God puts forth the example that a good word is like a good tree, whose root is firm and whose branches are in the sky.
1425 It bears its fruit every so often with the permission of its Lord; and God puts forth the examples for the people, perhaps they will remember.Red This analogy is very good to prove the (1), (2) and (3) theory if one understands what God means.
1427 God makes firm those who believe with firm sayings in the worldly life, and in the Hereafter. And God misguides the wicked, and God does what He wishes.
1428 Did you not see those who replaced the blessings of God with rejection, and they caused their people to dwell in the abode of destruction?If one does not believe and indulges in bad actions constantly then God will even misguide people Himself. Certain groups come to mind immediately.
1431 Say to My servants who (1) believe, that they should hold the Communion, and (2) spend from what provisions We granted them secretly and openly, before a Day comes when there is no trade therein, nor will there be any friends.
1435 And Abraham said ?My Lord, make this a land of peace, and keep me and my sons away from serving statues.?
The Message shines through here perfectly right in front of your very eyes who have probably read this phrase many times.
1439 ?Praise be to God who has granted me to my old age Ishmael and Isaac; my Lord is Hearer of the prayer.?
1440 ?My Lord, let me hold the Communion, and also from my progeny. Our Lord, and accept my prayer.?Purpose of Communion, to implore God for the things we need.
The Message is really simple, is it not?
God bless you
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Chapter 14 Message check
141 ALR, a Message which We have sent down to you so that you may bring the people out of the darkness and into the Light with the permission of their Lord, to the Path of the Noble, the Praiseworthy.
144 And We have not sent any messenger except in the language of his people, so he may clarify for them. But God misguides whom He wills, and He guides whom He wills. And He is the Noble, the Wise
Red It is thus strange that we use Arabic when God has promised the Messengers speaking the language of his people. This phrase ought to question the obsession with Arabic and its importance for the Message, and that it just happened that these people got their presentation of the Message in this language in the 7th century.
145 And We sent Moses with Our signs ?You shall bring your people out of the darkness and into the light, and remind them of the days of God.? In this are signs for everyone patient and thankful.
146 And Moses said to his people ?Remember the blessings of God upon you that He saved you from the people of Pharaoh; they were afflicting you with the worst punishment, and they used to slaughter your children, and rape your women. And in that was a great test from your Lord.?In all the happenings occurring with the Messengers presence here on Earth it is primarily to remember what God did for you and not the Messengers who channeled God's words. Despite this the Messengers tend to have exaggerated importance and idolization to their name.
147 And your Lord proclaimed ?If you give thanks, I will increase for you, but if you are rejecting, then My retribution is severe.?
This ought to be what rejecting God is; to not give appreciation and remain completely heedless of Him no matter if you have Knowledge or not. We ought to keep in mind what God's definition of rejection is. Often it seems that you can know that God exists but you "forget" about Him, lose focus.
149 Did not news come to you of those before you the people of Noah, and ?Aad, and Thamud, and those after them whom none know except God? Their messengers came to them with clarity, but they placed their hands onto their mouths and said ?We are rejecting what you have been sent with, and we are in doubt as to what you are inviting us to.?
1410 Their messengers said ?Is there doubt regarding God, the initiator of the heavens and the earth? He invites you so that He may forgive some of your sins, and delay you to an appointed term.? They said ?You are merely human beings like us; you wish to turn us away from what our fathers used to serve. So come to us with a clear proof.?
1411 Their messengers said ?We are indeed human beings like you, but God will bestow His grace upon whom He pleases from His servants. And it is not up to us to bring you proof except with the permission of God. And in God the believers should place their trust?
1412 ?And why should we not place our trust in God, when He has guided us in our paths. And we will be patient to the harm you inflict upon us. And in God those who trust should place their trust.?
1413 And those who rejected said to their messengers ?We will expel you from our land, or you will return to our creed.? It was then that their Lord inspired to them ?We will destroy the wicked.?The Messengers practically preached the same Message in this summary by God and so did Muhammad and Jesus. No more no less.
The losers
1421 And they appeared before God, all of them. And the weak ones said to those who were arrogant ?We were following you, so will you avail us anything from the retribution of God?? They said ?If God had guided us, then we would have guided you. It makes no difference if we cry out or are patient, for we have no refuge.?
1422 And the devil said when the matter was complete ?God had promised you the promise of truth, and I promised you and broke my promise. And I had no power over you except that I invited you and you responded to me. So do not blame me, but blame yourselves; I cannot help you nor can you help me. I reject that you have set me up as a partner before this; the wicked will have a painful retribution.?Green They foolishly followed their spiritual leaders when they uttered complete nonsense which had no basis in the Message and prohibitions never authorized by God.
Blue The devil is an invisible but powerful deceiver and is most efficient when humans distance themselves to God and thus loses His protection, and when we give in to our lusts.
But the righteous Believers were these (who mainly upheld these criteria)
1423 And those who (1) believed and did (2) good works were admitted to estates with rivers flowing beneath them. In them they will abide with the permission of their Lord. Their greeting therein is ?Peace.?
It is incredible how many times God repeats this phrase throughout The Book and people still complicate the Message.
1424 Have you not seen how God puts forth the example that a good word is like a good tree, whose root is firm and whose branches are in the sky.
1425 It bears its fruit every so often with the permission of its Lord; and God puts forth the examples for the people, perhaps they will remember.Red This analogy is very good to prove the (1), (2) and (3) theory if one understands what God means.
1427 God makes firm those who believe with firm sayings in the worldly life, and in the Hereafter. And God misguides the wicked, and God does what He wishes.
1428 Did you not see those who replaced the blessings of God with rejection, and they caused their people to dwell in the abode of destruction?If one does not believe and indulges in bad actions constantly then God will even misguide people Himself. Certain groups come to mind immediately.
1431 Say to My servants who (1) believe, that they should hold the Communion, and (2) spend from what provisions We granted them secretly and openly, before a Day comes when there is no trade therein, nor will there be any friends.
1435 And Abraham said ?My Lord, make this a land of peace, and keep me and my sons away from serving statues.?
The Message shines through here perfectly right in front of your very eyes who have probably read this phrase many times.
1439 ?Praise be to God who has granted me to my old age Ishmael and Isaac; my Lord is Hearer of the prayer.?
1440 ?My Lord, let me hold the Communion, and also from my progeny. Our Lord, and accept my prayer.?Purpose of Communion, to implore God for the things we need.
The Message is really simple, is it not?
God bless you
Tis. Very well written. If only everyone saw it this simply....
God bless peace
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Chapter 15 Message check
Let us proceed with yet another chapter of The Book to clarify the clear Message within the text.
151 ALR, these are the signs of the Message, and a clear Book.
Red This is one of those verses that does not make any sense with the traditional view of ketaab as book and then ends with the traditional perception of Qur'an as Qur'an. At least not according to me.
159 Indeed it is We who have sent down the (3) Reminder, and indeed it is We who will preserve it.
1586 Your Lord is the Creator, the Knower.
1587 And We have given you seven of the pairs, and the great Book.
1588 Do not linger with your eyes on what We have bestowed upon some couples from them, and do not grieve for them, and lower your wing for the believers.
1589 And say ?I am the clarifying warner.?
1590 As for the dividers in what We sent down.
1591 The ones who have made the Book partial.
1592 By your Lord, We will ask them all.
1593 Regarding what they used to do.
1594 So proclaim what you have been commanded and turn away from the polytheists.
1595 We will relieve you from those who mocked.
1596 Those who place with God another god. They will come to know.
1597 And We know that your chest is strained by what they say.
1598 So glorify the praise of your Lord, and be of those who prostrate.
1599 And (1) serve your Lord until certainty comes to you.Red This feels like a riddle.
I skipped many verses as they were not relevant for the Message check or simply would be repetition of the same things I linked to previously.
God bless you
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Chapter 16 Message check
Let us immediately continue with the next chapter and see how the Message is incredibly simple and non-uniform. People are allowed to be their own individuals as long as they works towards becoming really good people and build up a strong Faith in God.
162 He sends down the angels with the Spirit by His command upon whom He wishes of His servants (1) ?That you shall warn that there is no god except I, so be aware of Me.?
Red The Message in its simplicity. If people simply believe, show appreciation and do good then mission accomplished.
Green Indeed. God can inspire anyone whom he wishes, and there is nothing which indicates a time restriction.163 - 1617 God gives reasons to believe in Him, although they are outdated for a civilization of the 21st century, so they might not be so impressive today even if they are correct. Had God revealed a book today there would likely be allegories with outer space and planets in a more modern style. The old style of allegories are often abused by atheist to "patheticize" The Book even if they are not wrong but on child level nowadays.
It seems that open polytheism (other gods) was the main issue when The Book was revealed so the accusations by God could possibly be different if God happened to inspire a scripture in this age. It is relatively easy to adjust the verses of The Book in your mind so that you see God's point regardless. Anyway, the gods narrated about could be changed by the god people have done out of Muhammad and Jesus with sayings that possibly never took place. Certain people think that Muhammad has the power of intercession and other ridiculous abilities so you could say that he has god-rank. And Jesus is still as of 21st century regarded as a god, so in ways The Book is still as valid as in the past although there could be a slight change of focus as the issues changed.
I still deem The Book to primarily be aimed for the contemporary population of the 7th century and could be used as a Guide now about 1400 years later, but it is not tailored for a modern population so to say. We have had a slight change of issues from when The Book was written although the moral lessons are still as valid, and because the Message is so uncomplicated.
1630 And it was said to those who were righteous ?What has your Lord sent down?? They said ?All goodness.? For those who have (2) done good in this world there is good; and the Hereafter is goodness. Excellent indeed is the home of the righteous.
Red Consider what you have done when you have done good. That is repeated countless of times in The Book and is the essence of this Message and the other one is purification and communication to God which I conveniently refer to as Communion.
1632 Those whom their lives are terminated by the angels, (2) while they had been good, they will say ?Peace be upon you, enter the Paradise because of that which you have done.?
Red (2) BE GOOD, be of a GOOD character. That and (1) belief and service to God is all that counts. And certain mobilization to uphold justice because a Believer cannot be a bystander, and they know that dieing while being good would be like a blessing, nothing to be afraid of.
1636 And We have sent a messenger to every nation (1) ?You shall serve God and (2) avoid evil.? Some of them were guided by God, and some of them deserved to be misguided. So travel the earth, and see how the punishment was of those who denied.
Red So I say "You shall serve God and avoid evil!"
1637 If you are concerned for their guidance, God does not guide whom He misguides; and they will have no supporters.
Red No matter what you say; some people will not believe, so no reason to be sad because they only argue with you and want to imply that you are ignorant.
1643 And We did not send any except men before you whom We inspired, so ask the people who have received the Reminder if you do not know.
1644 With signs and the revelations. And We sent down to you the Reminder to reveal to the people what was sent to them, and perhaps they will think.The Message is nothing new.
1664 And We have not sent down the Message to you except that you may clarify for them that in which they have disputed, and as a guidance and a mercy for a people who believe.
1689 And the Day We send to every nation a witness against them from themselves, and We have brought you as a witness against these. And We have sent down to you the Message as a clarification for all things, and a guidance and a mercy and good tidings to those who have submitted.
1690 God orders (2) justice and goodness and that you shall help your relatives, and He prohibits immorality and vice and transgression. He warns you that you may remember.
What is the Message?
1691 And fulfill your pledge to God when you pledge so, and do not break your oath after making it, for you have made God a sponsor over you. God is aware of what you do.
1697 Whoever does (2) good works, whether male or female, and is a (1) believer, We will give him a good life and We will reward them their dues with the best of what they used to do.
1698 When you read The Book, you shall seek refuge with God from the outcast devil.
1699 He has no authority over those who believe, and who put their trust in their Lord.Red If you believe; God narrates that Shaytaan has no authority over you. And as you know belief in a nutshell is belief (Faith) in God and doing good; such people will be "shielded" against the temptations of the evil one.
16101 And if We exchange a revelation in place of another revelation; and God is more aware of what He is revealing; they say ?You are making this up!? Alas, most of them do not know.
A classical; "God's pen does never run out of ink", fits fine here.
16102 Say ?The Holy Spirit has brought it down from your Lord with the truth, so that those who (1) believe will be strengthened, and as a Guidance and good news for those who have submitted.?
16103 And We are aware that they say ?A human being is teaching him.? The tongue of the one they refer to is foreign, while this is a clear Arabic tongue.
16104 Those who do not believe in the signs of God, God will not guide them, and they will have a painful retribution.
16105 Inventing fabrications is only done by those who do not believe in the signs of God; and these are the liars.Red The inspiration is channeled to the receiving servant of God.
Green It would be interesting to imagine that the same phrase could as well be repeated again if there would be a revelation in yet another language something like "The tongue of the one they refer to is foreign, while this is a clear tongue"
16112 And God puts forth the example of a town which was (2) peaceful and content, its provisions were coming to it bountifully from all places, but then it (-2) rebelled against the blessings of God, and God made it taste hunger and fear for what they used to do.
16113 And a messenger came to them from themselves, but they denied him, so the punishment took them while they were wicked.
16114 So (2) eat from what God has provided you, that which is good and lawful, and be (1) thankful for the blessing of God, if it is indeed He whom you serve.
16115 He has only forbidden for you what is already dead, and the blood, and the meat of pig, and what was dedicated to other than God. But whoever is forced to, without seeking disobedience or transgression, then God is Forgiver, Merciful.
16116 And do not say, as to what your tongues falsely describe ?This is lawful, and that is forbidden;? that you seek to invent lies about God. Those who invent lies about God will not succeed.Red This is haraam and this is halal etc. It is pretty clear that they indulged in various conjecture and possibly oppressed those who opposed this madness.
16118 And for those who are Jewish, We forbade what We told to you before. And We did not wrong them, but they were wronging themselves.
The Jews had some community-specific prohibitions, and God is right that He told you about it previously. You see it earlier in my Message checks.
16119 Then your Lord to those who do (-2) evil out of ignorance, then they repent after that and (2) they make good, your Lord after that is Forgiver, Merciful.
16120 Abraham was a nation, (2) dutiful to God, a monotheist, and he was not of the polytheists.
16121 (1) Thankful for His blessings. He chose him and guided him to a straight path.
16122 And We gave him good in this world, and in the Hereafter he is of the upright ones.
16123 Then We inspired to you ?You shall follow the creed of Abraham, monotheism, and he was not of the polytheists.?
16124 Indeed, the Sabbath was only decreed for those who had disputed in it, and your Lord will judge between them for that in which they had disputed.This is one of the vague (translated) verses mentioning the Sabbath. I do not buy the argument to exclude it on this basis. I am going to have to continue to research on this.
16126 And if you punish, then punish with equivalence to that which you were punished. And if you are patient then it is better for the patient ones.
16127 And be patient, for your patience is on none except God. And do not grieve for them, and do not be depressed by what they scheme.16128 God is with those who are (1) aware and are (2) good doers.
It is clear that it is better to forgive than to seek revenge at all. God has made written that it is one of the main traits to be patient.
God bless you
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Peace Man of Daith
Until now I agree if Kitab in QUran can be mean Book or letter/chapter.
Quran's language pattern indeed is a special, even for Arab themself.A word hasmany multiple meaning depend on it's context.One of the example is the word "Rabb" in Chapter Yusuf.The word "Rabb mostly directed to the One Supreme Being, but in that chapter also directed to Jusuf's FIr'aun
God Bless You
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Peace Earthdom,
I have put much of my brain processing power on ketaab, but its root word seems to incline towards to compose something such as a composition, but in my own philosophies it does not have to mean a concrete object in its noun form ketaab. Ketaab as letter could be it, but I find the word still connotes to kind of a prescription, much like the doctors give to their patients and that put me to the decision of using the word Message for the context of The Book. The problem we face with ketaab is that we humans have a tendency to always have to relate to things physically and that has caused ketaab to become a thing. But as a physical item 'ketaab' does not fit all the context and some of the verses look pathetic if you ask me, but if you give a slightly more abstract meaning such as message which a book could possibly be although it means more abstractly. A message is usually abstract in meaning and in The Book ketaab as concrete item does not suit the context.
Ketaab as letter is better than book, but I still am not satisfied with that as it does still not give enough. Ketaab in The Book is many times evidently not a physical item because it does not fit the context and it makes it faulty. For example; Abraham could not have known about physical books unless he knew the future as in the verse I was talking about in previous posts where Abraham together with his son prayed
2129 ?Our Lord, and send among them a messenger from among themselves, that he may recite to them Your revelations and teach them the Book and the wisdom, and purify them. You are the Noble, the Wise.?
Red What book did he refer to? Could the man read the future or does ketaab really mean a physical book? If you replace book and insert Message then the sentence takes its true form according to me.
And its meaning is not adaptable to just this context, but that is true for the word ketaab wherever you encounter it in The Book.
It does not exclude that the word does mean to compose something, but it does not have the absolute meaning that the result product has to be a physical item. In the case of The Book in relates to the contents of it as the Message.
Based on this I know that the Torah and Gospel are also part of the Message and not necessarily physical books. I personally believe that Moses only received guidelines on two stone tablets which he and his people were told to follow and which also Jesus were taught to follow although he came with news which the Message Gospel means and you know yourself what Jesus spoke about if you read one of the Gospel testimonies. What they taught are part of the grand Message, but Torah and Gospel themselves are the abstract teachings of respective era. The Messengers before Gospel taught strictly what was of the Torah while Jesus elaborated and showed that you could regard the list of commandments as the minimum requirement. What the Jews know of the original prohibitions they had that is the Torah, but lots of what they do is inventions much like we know happens to Muslims today. Jews have a relatively small list of things to do; the ten commandments and some community-specific commands. The list of the ten commandments (I think is al-furqan) is still valid for every Believer in the system of God and His Covenant.
Once again I am bold as to claim Torah and Gospel are not to be regarded concretely but abstractly although you follow Torah if you follow the (original) teachings of Moses althogh the Message is renewed with news that newer generations do not to be punished for their (the Jews from the Exodus and following generations) sins not to eat from the good which God forbade because the Jews had sinned. Possibly it is this that is the Gospel, i.e. that certain prohibitions were lifted and Jesus were a Light that showed that one could apply the heart in the interpretation of the Message and that the Torah is just the minimum requirement expected from a Believer.
So the Bible carries some Truth, but much of the Old Testament is not to be considered The Criterion and the Torah of Moses. In fact very little of it and you can apply logic that it has to be contained in text on two ancient stone tablets. And obviously the Gospels you find in the New Testament were not written by Jesus and nothing exists which were written by Jesus. There is probably nothing that Jesus wrote and the Gospels reveal most of what Jesus did quite well despite distortion, so there was really no need for him to write down anything. If you tinker on the Gospels next time you read them you find that the Message is not to do only minimally what is required of a Believer but do more and Jesus gave the optimum state of a Believer to completely reject the wealth of this world and only do things to help others.
God bless you
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Peace Earthdom,
I have put much of my brain processing power on ketaab, but its root word seems to incline towards to compose something such as a composition, but in my own philosophies it does not have to mean a concrete object in its noun form ketaab. Ketaab as letter could be it, but I find the word still connotes to kind of a prescription, much like the doctors give to their patients and that put me to the decision of using the word Message for the context of The Book. The problem we face with ketaab is that we humans have a tendency to always have to relate to things physically and that has caused ketaab to become a thing. But as a physical item 'ketaab' does not fit all the context and some of the verses look pathetic if you ask me, but if you give a slightly more abstract meaning such as message which a book could possibly be although it means more abstractly. A message is usually abstract in meaning and in The Book ketaab as concrete item does not suit the context.
Ketaab as letter is better than book, but I still am not satisfied with that as it does still not give enough. Ketaab in The Book is many times evidently not a physical item because it does not fit the context and it makes it faulty. For example; Abraham could not have known about physical books unless he knew the future as in the verse I was talking about in previous posts where Abraham together with his son prayed
2129 ?Our Lord, and send among them a messenger from among themselves, that he may recite to them Your revelations and teach them the Book and the wisdom, and purify them. You are the Noble, the Wise.?
Red What book did he refer to? Could the man read the future or does ketaab really mean a physical book? If you replace book and insert Message then the sentence takes its true form according to me.
And its meaning is not adaptable to just this context, but that is true for the word ketaab wherever you encounter it in The Book.
It does not exclude that the word does mean to compose something, but it does not have the absolute meaning that the result product has to be a physical item. In the case of The Book in relates to the contents of it as the Message.
Based on this I know that the Torah and Gospel are also part of the Message and not necessarily physical books. I personally believe that Moses only received guidelines on two stone tablets which he and his people were told to follow and which also Jesus were taught to follow although he came with news which the Message Gospel means and you know yourself what Jesus spoke about if you read one of the Gospel testimonies. What they taught are part of the grand Message, but Torah and Gospel themselves are the abstract teachings of respective era. The Messengers before Gospel taught strictly what was of the Torah while Jesus elaborated and showed that you could regard the list of commandments as the minimum requirement. What the Jews know of the original prohibitions they had that is the Torah, but lots of what they do is inventions much like we know happens to Muslims today. Jews have a relatively small list of things to do; the ten commandments and some community-specific commands. The list of the ten commandments (I think is al-furqan) is still valid for every Believer in the system of God and His Covenant.
Once again I am bold as to claim Torah and Gospel are not to be regarded concretely but abstractly although you follow Torah if you follow the (original) teachings of Moses althogh the Message is renewed with news that newer generations do not to be punished for their (the Jews from the Exodus and following generations) sins not to eat from the good which God forbade because the Jews had sinned. Possibly it is this that is the Gospel, i.e. that certain prohibitions were lifted and Jesus were a Light that showed that one could apply the heart in the interpretation of the Message and that the Torah is just the minimum requirement expected from a Believer.
So the Bible carries some Truth, but much of the Old Testament is not to be considered The Criterion and the Torah of Moses. In fact very little of it and you can apply logic that it has to be contained in text on two ancient stone tablets. And obviously the Gospels you find in the New Testament were not written by Jesus and nothing exists which were written by Jesus. There is probably nothing that Jesus wrote and the Gospels reveal most of what Jesus did quite well despite distortion, so there was really no need for him to write down anything. If you tinker on the Gospels next time you read them you find that the Message is not to do only minimally what is required of a Believer but do more and Jesus gave the optimum state of a Believer to completely reject the wealth of this world and only do things to help others.
God bless you
Your "personal" beliefs count for nothing . . . and are text book definition of "Conjecture". Only thing that counts is evidence from Quran.
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Your "personal" beliefs count for nothing . . . and are text book definition of "Conjecture". Only thing that counts is evidence from Quran.
His personal beliefs count for exactly as much as anyone else's personal beliefs.
People can prove anything about anything in any direction. Let's not judge each other. Instead try being silent and listen to Allah in your heart, not in your conditioned and fearful mind. -
His personal beliefs count for exactly as much as anyone else's personal beliefs.
People can prove anything about anything in any direction. Let's not judge each other. Instead try being silent and listen to Allah in your heart, not in your conditioned and fearful mind.Then - learn to keep it quiet. Isn't it dead ironic . . . that Quran only cover the gaps . . . from themselves? And claim to be restricted to Quran only? Yet that is so obviously NOT the case.
People can prove anything about anything in any direction.
Atta! But hat you cannot "prove" is what you just made up.
Let's not judge each other. Instead try being silent and listen to Allah in your heart, not in your conditioned and fearful mind.
Meaningless religious babble. Sorry never paid heed to such "sanctimony".
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Then - learn to keep it quiet. Isn't it dead ironic . . . that Quran only cover the gaps . . . from themselves? And claim to be restricted to Quran only? Yet that is so obviously NOT the case.
I'm certainly not restricted to "quran only". But anyway, I'll remain silent. -X . . .
Atta! But hat you cannot "prove" is what you just made up.
No-one can.
Meaningless religious babble. Sorry never paid heed to such "sanctimony".
rotfl
Meaningless.. to you, yes apparently.
Religious? Not at all. I stand apart from religion.
But what do you pay heed to?Peace sun
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Peace,
Please no fighting here. The Chimp is entitled to his opinion. Perchance there is someone else who appreciates the studies.
God bless whom he wills