Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
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After brief thinking here I realized the understanding of the word sajda is important here. I infer that sajda is more than only respectful but inclines on dedicated because these people who are dedicated and respectful can protect the messenger while preaching.
Maybe the messenger also need to practice martial art, also practice to be skillful in using some weapons, in case (for example) if he still does not have many followers.
Salm.
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Dear Man of Faith,
Salam alaykum.
I have to say that I strongly, yet respectfully, disagree with your conclusion concerning 'salat'. I am sure you will agree that a believer's beliefs must filter through his actions. Therefore, do share with us about how you establish your communion with others in your daily life.
Regards.
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Peace Scribbler,
Perhaps another time then.
The unity, keeping to the teachings of God is what is communion, the truth. The alternative is dividing into sects. Holding tight to the command of God is what is to keep communion.
I am yet not 100% satisfied with the translation into communion, but the idea struck me while discovering about communion in a year 1828 issue of Webster's dictionary because it yet fits by definition. Verily it is translating into a foreign language very different so it is perhaps not that easy to find the perfect match just as the fact that 'salaam' is also difficult to accurately translate. In my view; communion is several times a better translation than "contact prayer" which is ridiculous as a comprehension of the context. It is the "keep-together" that is supposed to be kept alive instead of losing the communion and dividing into sects, but the Arabic cannot be directly translated but you have to paraphrase.
Have faith
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Peace Man Of Faith.
With all due respect
I am not waiting for you to translate "Salat" for me. I was just highlighting a contradiction.
I am certain that "salat" is a connection to the creator and it includes prayer.
You will probably find some difficulty translating " salat Al- Isha" and "salat AL-Fajr"?GOD taught Abraham how to observe " salat" and the practice was passed on from generation to generation.
GOD also sends messengers "with proof" when any part of the deen gets corrupted.
We now have the uncorrupted version of the "salat" from the latest messenger. As simple as that. No complications or communion needed.GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace,
There is no contradiction and that is why it is such a scandal. Al-fajr and al-isha does not have to imply contradiction, but it is still a work in progress to decipher it better for a more clear literal quality.
And even if it implies on communion in the morning and evening it is no contradiction because a cleric has a job too.
And in 11114 prayer timing is just an erroneous interpretation based on a mistake of a word. Check my recent post about salat.
Abraham was taught communion of God and not a prayer.
And if you wish to believe in praying birds or dogmatic religion where people are forced to observe contact prayer then do so as long as you do not live out on them because then I will fight you.
Have faith
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And if you wish to believe in praying birds
As-salam alaykum, brother.
Why is it hard for you to believe that birds can pray to God?
Gods tells us clearly in 1744 that humans have not been given the capacity to understand the methods of glorification of His other creatures.
1744
The seven heavens and the earth, and all beings therein, declare His glory there is not a thing but celebrates His praise; And yet ye understand not how they declare His glory! Verily He is Oft-Forbear, Most Forgiving!Those who believe salat to mean prayer never deny that it is also a form of glorification of God. Therefore, according to 1744, if birds can glorify God, I see no reason to deny that they can also pray to God, but of course we have not been given the capacity to understand it.
Regards.
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Peace Scribbler,
It is indeed difficult to see a purpose for a bird to pray. Glorify is another thing, but that is not praying. And birds do not have any reason to pray because they live according to a communion without any consciousness like us with decisions and choices, i.e. they are driven entirely by instincts.
I absolutely see no connection between glorifying God in the morning and evening and ritualistic contact praying.
Besides I have never said that there are no prayers, only that salat is not the correct word. It does not connote on that and fits poorly in the context too. It was just someone who wished to interpret it that way. And I do not think that there are any slavishly timed prayers throughout the day either but these are circumstantial depending on need and moodset. Honoring God can easily be done be upholding the decree and communion through righteous deeds.
Without any intention of disrespect towards your faith, but I think everyone has been fooled and the faith looks mostly like Christianity without the Jesus obsession. The Christians do most of the communion right except excessive glorification and praise to Jesus instead of God (and a bit of conjecture about the details just like Islam).
And "Islam" is very dogmatic with salat meaning contact prayer because people are to be forced to observe it according to passages.
But because salat means unity (communion) of the rightful decree and judgment it means the people are just to stop their atrocities and adhere to the harmonious ways of God. It is to stick together as a unit with salat and not divide into sects.
Have faith I will further my analysis of the related passages.
Have faith
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Peace Man Of Faith.
So people are forced to observe "salat" if it means contact prayer, but not forced if it means "unity/communion"?
Think brother, you are not making sense!
If God instructs something, people are free to do it or not!!!
Those who force people to do anything are not following Qoran anyway, regardless of what "salat" means.
I am sorry brother, you are not making sense with your explanations? Is anyone clear how to observe salat according to you?
I do not think you are clear yourself?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace,
I am thinking about what I am saying. You know the communion of God everyone adheres to that is not dividing into sects and invent dogmatic and zealous rules like has been done with salat in your case.
To sectarian muslims one does not belong to their sect unless they perform this ritual and other ones. According to them I would not keep communion because I follow this way of not performing this ritual and according to them I divide myself into a sect despite the fact I follow the communion issued by God. I am not certain that you have a clue about what I am saying?
When a person stops following the decree and judgment and restrictions set by God then they will lose communion. I say that one has then broken into a sect. Inventing rules to the command of God is a way of losing communion and failure for purification.
My argument is that salat does not mean contact prayer whatsoever and that I stand by.
And in the narration there is a 'compulsory' comment on keeping salat or be fought. The explanation is quite easy actually. It is by not inventing any rules besides what God has commanded and particularly unrighteous ones and also the opponents of God in the context were dogmatic and zealous about their sectarian ways. God tells them to return to communion instead of acting out in unrighteousness.
Besides, do you think God will hear you because of your many words?
I just sense that the ritual traditional Muslims perform is just a remnant from Paganism. Mumbling long phrases and performing coded movements are very authentic to Pagan ritualism.
So is walking and using an idol to get closer to God. The cubic building in Mecca is a giant idol of the same kind as in Paganism.
And like I say; I do not have faith that birds pray. They follow a communion in formation and glorify God in their way. God programmed their behavior and they just act according to it without any division.
Same for us; we should keep the communion set by God and not question it and start inventing rules never authorized by God and thus perverted what God has said. Salat = contact prayer is just that, not keeping communion, ironically.
Have faith
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Peace Man Of Faith.
Brother ,you are free to follow /invent what you want.
Good luck to you.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace,
Follow yes; invent no. But you are free to follow millennia long conjecture yourself.
Prove what I have invented that was not part of faith or what I have omitted from the decreed matter? A ritualistic prayer of Pagans and the treatment of a house as idol?
Have faith
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Peace Man Of Faith.
Please take this constructive conversation as an honest way of giving you another point you are missing.
The salat instituted by God is in fact a great gift from Him. It constitute the nourishment required for the growth and development of our Souls. Without such nourishment, we cannot survive the immense energy associated with God's physical presence on the Day of Judgment. Belief in God does not by itself guarantee our redemption; we must also nourish our souls (6158, 1090-92). Additionally, 1599 states that observing the duties instituted by God is our means of attaining certainty
With respect and friendship I am trying to convey this. Of course you are entitled to ignore it
Also I will leave you to continue your thread without any interruption from me.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace,
The salat instituted by God is in fact a great gift from Him. It constitute the nourishment required for the growth and development of our Souls. Without such nourishment, we cannot survive the immense energy associated with God's physical presence on the Day of Judgment. Belief in God does not by itself guarantee our redemption; we must also nourish our souls (6158, 1090-92). Additionally, 1599 states that observing the duties instituted by God is our means of attaining certainty
This understanding is correct, but it is just a problem that it is not salat that is it.
Salat is not a ritual as I have said before, it is a phenomenon that is a result of keeping to the decree of God and seeking God's Nearness and Guidance. But if you wish to have faith that God will listen to you because of many words and ritualistic movement in a Pagan-style prayer then feel free to continue, or travel to Mecca to treat a cubic building as an idol. If you saw clearly you would realize it is all an illusion and a Pagan behavior.
1598 So glorify the praise of your Master, and be of those who are dedicated.
1599 And serve your Master until certainty comes to you.It does not say to follow any rituals, but serve is by acting out according to the decree and judgment of God.
I will continue on the topic of salat from last night, God willing.
Have faith
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Peace Man Of Faith.
Please take this constructive conversation as an honest way of giving you another point you are missing.
The salat instituted by God is in fact a great gift from Him. It constitute the nourishment required for the growth and development of our Souls. Without such nourishment, we cannot survive the immense energy associated with God's physical presence on the Day of Judgment. Belief in God does not by itself guarantee our redemption; we must also nourish our souls (6158, 1090-92). Additionally, 1599 states that observing the duties instituted by God is our means of attaining certainty
With respect and friendship I am trying to convey this. Of course you are entitled to ignore it
Also I will leave you to continue your thread without any interruption from me.
GOD bless you.
Peace.I totally agree with this, specially as it is confirmed also by the Messenger of the Covenant, Dr. R. Khalifa, PhD.
Peace
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Peace,
But believe in whatever you like then.
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Peace muslims,
I am very surprised if you have faith in this.
My conclusion is that salat does not connote on contact prayer whatsoever. It is a remote claim.
And I have been able to falsify the claim that 11114 refers to prayer timing at all which has been neatly used to argue for these timings inferred by those who adhere to this Pagan influence. And the verse with salat alwusta does also not talk about middle prayer so another instance of nullified prayer timing, and wusta means best according to its base word's occurrence in other contexts.
And do you not deem it strange that, if God had decreed timed prayers, then this was not clear in the narration and all timings in one single passage and with exactly how to perform it in the same context?
Some work remain and that is to find out what God meant in 2458 in terms of salat alfajr and alisha. And I also have no other than highly experimental translations of 443 and 56, and I am quite sure they do not speak of ablution whatsoever.
The final conclusion about the word salat itself is that it means pretty much according to the year 1828 issue of Webster's definition of communion. It means to keep together in the teachings and command of God and not divide into sects. Depending of the form of s -l - w it implies between unite, unity or communion. If you by action do slw then you simply teach about God and bring people to communion. An example is with Zachariah in the alleged temple enclosure.
To please people I have also found for them the word for pray too (duwa), but it does not suffice them obviously. They want timed rituals and many words like their fathers.
And you know that with salat as prayer then birds pray too and Islam is very dogmatic and zealous because the opponents of God are to be fought "until they observe salat". Obviously they are to be fought until the observe the communion by adhering to the system of God to uphold justice and no oppression. But these people I am arguing with here after my work is presented oppose these, to me, logical arguments.
Have faith
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I am very surprised if you have faith in this.
My conclusion is that salat does not connote on contact prayer whatsoever. It is a remote claim.
I did. . .and I don't believe there is contact prayers, and at least it is mutasyaabihat and contradicting many verses from the Quran. . . I've checked almost 95 verses and I believe it does not mean contact prayers. . .however, there are about 5-7 verses left that I'm still studying.
. . .
And I have been able to falsify the claim that 11114 refers to prayer timing at all which has been neatly used to argue for these timings inferred by those who adhere to this Pagan influence.
Agree. . . it have nothing to do with prayer times. The whole context speak about justice and injustice, sectarian, unity and disunity. . .
And if your Lord had wished
He could have made all the people one nation
but they still would have continued to disagree.
11118and reading the context alone will tell there is something fishy about that verse.
| | 11113 | And do not lean towards those who have wronged else you will incur the Fire; and you will not have besides God any allies, and you will not be victorious. |
| | 11114 | (the story diverted)
The good deeds take away the bad. This is a reminder to those who remember. | And hold the contact prayer at two parts of the day, and the near part of the night.
| | 11115 | And be patient, for God does not waste the reward of the good doers. |
Verse 11 is verse 52 in its chronological order.
. . .
And the verse with salat alwusta does also not talk about middle prayer so another instance of nullified prayer timing, and wusta means best according to its base word's occurrence in other contexts.
And do you not deem it strange that, if God had decreed timed prayers, then this was not clear in the narration and all timings in one single passage and with exactly how to perform it in the same context?
Some work remain and that is to find out what God meant in 2458 in terms of salat alfajr and alisha. And I also have no other than highly experimental translations of 443 and 56, and I am quite sure they do not speak of ablution whatsoever.
Agree, I believe that verse has nothing to do at all about salat time, but it is about to act with balance (wusta) to widows after/during divorce. . . not to trouble them etc. . . it has nothing to do with salat time.
| | 2238 | And if you divorce them before having sexual intercourse with them, but you have already set the dowry for them; then you must give half of what you have agreed, unless they forgive or the guardian over the marriage contract forgives. And if you forgive, it is closer to righteousness. And do not forget the favor between you; God is Seer of what you do. |
| | 2239 | (the story diverted) | Maintain the contact prayers; and the middle contact prayer; and stand for God dutifully.
| | 2240 | (the story diverted) | But if you are fearful, then you may do so while walking or riding. If you become secure, then remember God as He has taught you what you did not know.
| | 2241 | And for those of you whose lives are terminated and they leave widows behind; a testimony to them that they may enjoy for one year without being made to vacate. If they leave then there is no sin upon you for what they do with themselves of goodness; and God is Noble, Wise. |
There is something wrong, and we must also realize today's arabic is not the same with quranic arabic, and that the original Arabic script had no dots, short vowels or diacritic marks etc.
http//www.themodernreligion.com/basic/history/q_script_old1.jpg
Sura 27-10This means every words can be from 30-50 meanings. . . so , it is not conclusive at all to say the verse is about salat when there is clear diversion from the context of the story itself.
. . .
The final conclusion about the word salat itself is that it means pretty much according to the year 1828 issue of Webster's definition of communion. It means to keep together in the teachings and command of God and not divide into sects. Depending of the form of s -l - w it implies between unite, unity or communion. If you by action do slw then you simply teach about God and bring people to communion. An example is with Zachariah in the alleged temple enclosure.
To please people I have also found for them the word for pray too (duwa), but it does not suffice them obviously. They want timed rituals and many words like their fathers.
And you know that with salat as prayer then birds pray too and Islam is very dogmatic and zealous because the opponents of God are to be fought "until they observe salat". Obviously they are to be fought until the observe the communion by adhering to the system of God to uphold justice and no oppression. But these people I am arguing with here after my work is presented oppose these, to me, logical arguments.
Have faith
It is justified. . . .and I also believe salat is referring to the system of unity in diversity. . . and zakat is to strengthen the unity.
For current practices. . .
My Conclusion I considered salat as the mutasyaabihat (allegorical) . . and according to the Quran, I have no duty to obey the rule relating to contact prayers. It is allegorical, there are inconsistency, and the details is not in the Quran . . . Therefore, it is freedom (5.101). . . do if we like, follow whoever we like, and leave if we don't like. . but never make it compulsory or raise any issue that can cause disunity in the Muslim Ummah.
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Dear Man of Faith,
Salam alaykum.
You say
And I have been able to falsify the claim that 11114 refers to prayer timing at all which has been neatly used to argue for these timings inferred by those who adhere to this Pagan influence.
Then what does 11114 talk about if it is not about timing? Please provide us your translation using valid source of reference.
And how do you understand or translate 4102?
4102
...salat is on the believers prescribed at fixed times.You say
And I also have no other than highly experimental translations of 443 and 56, and I am quite sure they do not speak of ablution whatsoever.
With respect, being "quite sure" will not make you successful, dear brother. You must tell us why you do not believe in the traditional understanding of these verses, and then present your translation of those verses by referring to the valid sources you have used to reach your conclusion. Otherwise, with respect, your arguments hold no merit.
Brother good logic had asked you a question. He asked, "So people are forced to observe 'salat' if it means contact prayer, but not forced if it means 'unity/communion'?"
It is a very good question which I feel you have left unanswered in your reply.
Regards.
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Whatever we may take salat to be, we should not be afraid of venturing away from dogma, although it may seem to be on thin, almost blasphemous, ice. As long as we are sincere in our search, we should just keep our heads cools, ask God for guidance, and see where things lead. Nobody is obligated to follow or agree to anything, so there is no harm in experimenting, as long as it is with good intentions. Sticking with tradition though is directly harmful, as pointed out by the quran. So, everyone, just keep calm and keep exploring, with a sincere heart. God is our witness at all times.
Also, I wonder what people mean when they say that salat is our nourishment. What does this mean? How is is nourishment? Nourishment in what sense? Sounds good, but too philosophical.
Peace