Salat According to the Quran and a Critical Remark

hafeez_kazi

Peace brother Mazhar

I asked you two questions which you avoided and straight away posted me another question. Anyway I will try my level best to convince you.

Please, always give answers to questions asked by the person who is discussing with you and then continue your debate / discussion with subsequent questions. Please do not take it in a negative way as we are brothers from across the borders and moreover we are believers and discussion is nothing but an attempt to understand the Quran in a better AND LOGICAL way. There is no win or lose situation. If you are offended, then please forgive me.

Who is it that would loan Allah a goodly loan so He may multiply it for him many times over? And it is Allah who withholds and grants abundance, and to Him you will be returned 2245

Can you give a loan directly to Allah? I am sure you won?t

Indeed, the men who practice charity and the women who practice charity and have loaned Allah a goodly loan - it will be multiplied for them, and they will have a noble reward 571

The loan is metaphor; those who are engaged day and night in the cause of charities are lending a (indirect) goodly loan to Allah.

In the same way HELPING Allah is also metaphor.

They said Burn him and help your gods, if you are going to do (anything). 2168

The disbelievers helped their gods by following their beliefs (statutes) in the same way the believers HELP Allah by following HIS statutes

For the poor emigrants who were expelled from their homes and their properties, seeking bounty from Allah and approval and supporting Allah and His Messenger, . Those are the truthful 598

The poor emigrants who believed in Allah and His Messenger were expelled from their homes with their belongings and their believing and migrating was the factor that was HELPING Allah. Anything done for his CAUSE is as good as HELPING Allah

We have already sent Our messengers with clear evidences and sent down with them the Scripture and the balance that the people may maintain in justice. And We sent down iron, wherein is great military might and benefits for the people, and so that Allah may make evident those who support Him and His messengers unseen. Indeed, Allah is Powerful and Exalted in Might 5725

Through messengers, clear evidences, the Book, Balance (of justice / equity) , Iron ( sent down for the benefit of MANKIND) Allah will know who are His actual supporters.

Believe in the Messenger and help him when he is alive.
Believe in the Book which is sent down.
Deal justly and with equity with the people
Use the Iron for the benefit of the people.

He who violates any norms of the above, is not the supporter of Allah. And he who upholds the above norms then he has surely HELPED Allah

O you who have believed, be supporters of Allah, as when Jesus, the son of Mary, said to the disciples, "Who are my supporters for Allah?" The disciples said, "We are supporters of Allah." And a faction of the Children of Israel believed and a faction disbelieved. So We supported those who believed against their enemy, and they became dominant. (61 14)

But when Jesus felt disbelief from them, he said, "Who are my supporters for Allah?" The disciples said, "We are supporters for Allah. We have believed in Allah and testify that we are Muslims . (3 52)

The disciples did not do any extraordinary thing except that they supported Jesus and that was the reason they called themselves supporters of Allah. Again those who believe (in truth) and testify that have submitted (in truth) to the will of Allah are also called the supporters of Allah.

those who have been evicted from their homes without right - only because they say, "Our Lord is Allah." And were it not that Allah checks the people, some by means of others, there would have been demolished monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques in which the name of Allah is much mentioned. And Allah will surely support those who support Him. Indeed, Allah is Powerful and Exalted in Might. 2240

Allah does not demolish the monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques through each other (mankind) so whosoever follows HIS instructions is HELPING Allah.

If you are not convinced by my answers then please let me know how you HELP ALLAH

And my first two questions, please answer.

I believe in the Messenger, I follow the Light (Quran) but I cannot HELP the Messenger since he is no more alive?

QUESTION Will I be SUCCESSFUL?

Please define your RESPECT to the Messenger. (Probably I have to failed to grasp the meaning of RESPECT)

Thanks

Mazhar

And my first two questions, please answer.

I believe in the Messenger, I follow the Light (Quran) but I cannot HELP the Messenger since he is no more alive?

QUESTION Will I be SUCCESSFUL?

Please define your RESPECT to the Messenger. (Probably I have to failed to grasp the meaning of RESPECT)

There were many many believers who were not in the company or even vicinity of the Messenger in the days when he was corporeally present in the world. "To help" does not necessarily mean something physical. It is assistance in the sense of advance something; promoting the mission of somone. They were certainly helping him when they were communicating and spreading the Ayat of Qur'aan which they had listened or obtained in writing from him.

He was trying his best to remove the shackles of conjectural myths around the necks of people and to bring them to the words of the infallible book. Do it, if you can, it is your help. You follow the Qur'aan, you are helping yourself to escape the gates of hell-prison; it was his deep felt desire that you act according to Qur'aan and save yourself. Arent' you helping him to be happy?

RESPECT

It is esteem a feeling or attitude of admiration and deference toward somebody or something.

Jafar

Have anybody here ever wondered why

There's NO DETAIL INSTRUCTION ON HOW TO PRAY within the Gospel?

The only place where it mention "Praying" in the Gospel is this

"And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites.
For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.

But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.

And when you pray, don?t babble on and on like the pagans, who think God will hear them better if they talk a lot.
Don?t be like them, because your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
You, therefore, pray like this

Our Father in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
Your kingdom come.
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts,
As we forgive our debtors.
And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

For if you forgive others their offenses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you; but if you do not forgive others their offenses, your heavenly Father will not forgive yours."

-- Matthew 6

No instruction on 'timing', 'pose', 'direction for praying', 'what language should be used for praying', 'who should be in the front', 'what should we do if we fart during praying' etc.. etc.. etc..

Which brings out questions

DOES ALL OF THOSE TECHNICALITIES MATTERS?
WHY WE ALL NEED TO PRAY IN THE EXACTLY THE SAME MANNER?
WHAT'S THE OBJECTIVE OF PRAYING?

Salam / Peace

cleanfox5982

Now I am looking forward to see the explanation HOW is it DONE...
Looking forward to the continuation.

Salam brother ,

2014 (Indeed, I am Allah. There is no deity except Me, so serve Me and establish prayer for My remembrance / Li dherkri .)

20 - 14

Notice that the word used for " remembrance al-dhikr" is the same word used to describe the quran itself

156 (And they say,"O you upon whom " The remembrance / al-dhikr" has been sent down, indeed you are mad.)

15 - 6

381 (S. By the Qur'an containing remembrance / dhikr )

38 - 1

6851 (And indeed, those who disbelieve would almost make you slip with their eyes when they hear " The remembrance / al-dhikr" , and they say, "Indeed, he is mad.)

68 - 51

So the salah has to be established to " The remembrance / al-dhikr" , how ?

2238 (Maintain with care the prayers and the middle prayer and stand before Allah , devoutly obedient.)
2239 (And if you fear on foot or riding. But when you are secure, then remember / adhkuru Allah , as He has taught you that which you did not know)

238 - 2 -

2 - 239

Were allah has taught us how to remember / dhikr him ?

***First what is the purpose of the prostration / Sujud ( physically and intellectually )

9619 (No! Do not obey him. But prostrate and draw near .)

96 - 19

*** second What to say in prostration

5040 ( And of the night magnify Him / SabihH and after prostration.)

50 - 40

What is the wording of the magnificence / Tasbih from the qur'an

1010 (Their call ( du3A ) therein will be, " Subhanek allaahm / Magnificent are You, Allah ," and their greeting therein will be "Salam." And the last of their call will be, "Al-hamd li Allah / Praise to Allah , Lord of the worlds!&quot

In my understanding at prostration / sujud , the remembrance / dikhr mentioned is magnificence / Tasbih only and that as per 5040 ,

What is the form of physical prostration ?

1529 (And when I have proportioned him and breathed into him of My Ruh, then fall down / Qa3u to him in prostration.&quot

15 - 29

What is Qa3u in Arabic , it is from the 2nd root Q3 .

http//imageshack.us/a/img855/4830/746y.jpg
WuQu3 al-matar / Rain falling

1012 (And when affliction touches man, he calls upon Us, whether lying on his side or sitting / Qa3ida or standing; but when We remove from him his affliction, he continues as if he had never called upon Us to an affliction that touched him. Thus is made pleasing to the transgressors that which they have been doing)

10 - 12

856 (When they were sitting / Qu3ud near it)

85 - 6

20105 (And they ask you about the mountains, so say, "My Lord will blow them away with a blast.)
20106 (He will leave them as plains (Qaa3a) smooth and level)

20 - /106/105

al-Qaa3 is the plain , the foundation or the base of something plural Qi3an and Qwua3d.

2439 (But those who disbelieved - their deeds are like a mirage in a lowland ( Baqi3ah) which a thirsty one thinks is water until, when he comes to it, he finds it is nothing but finds Allah before Him, and He will pay him in full his due; and Allah is swift in account.)

24 - 39

http//imageshack.us/a/img708/532/nc1w.jpg
A plain or low land where the mirage is formed , this land is called Qi3ah as it is a lower or at the bottom of the land

So Qa3u in 1529 mean to fall down till the plain ground

The shadows of all things and creatures are prostrating , how ?

1648 (Have they not considered what things Allah has created? Their shadows incline to the right and to the left, prostrating to Allah , while they are humble.)

16 - 48

1648 (And to Allah prostrates whoever is within the heavens and the earth, willingly or by compulsion, and their shadows in the mornings and the afternoons.)

13 - 15

What is the connection between the shadows and the physical prostration ?

2545 (Have you not considered your Lord - how He extends the shadow, and if He willed, He could have made it stationary? Then We made the sun for it an indication.)

25 - 45

http//imageshack.us/a/img811/2807/2tgc.jpg
The shadow of a dune extending , making prostration ( sujud ) to allah

what is the purpose of the prostration / Sujud ( physically and intellectually )

9619 (No! Do not obey him. But prostrate and draw near .)

96 - 19

While standing as per 399 , below are remembrance / dikhr from the qur'an about what to say

chapter 1 chapter 114 , chapter 112 , chapter 113 ,

These are verses about what to say and if we search we find more , these are some examples

10 - 10
41 - 30
3 - 26
5 - 114
8 - 32
10 - 10
39 - 46
2 - 127
2 - 128
2 - 129
2 - 139
2 - 200
2 - 201
2 - 250
2 - 285
2 - 286
3 - 7
3 - 8
3 - 9
3 - 16
3 - 53
3 - 147
3 - 191
3 - 192
3 - 193
3 - 194
4 - 75
7 - 23
7 - 43
7 - 47
7 - 89
7 - 125
7 - 126
7 - 149
10 - 85
14 - 37
14 - 38
14 - 40
14 - 41
17 - 108
18 - 10
18 - 14
20 - 45
20 - 50
22 - 40
23 - 109
25 - 65
25 - 74
26 - 50
26 - 51
28 - 53
34 - 26
35 - 34
40 - 8
42 - 15
46 - 13
59 - 10
60 - 4
60 - 5
66 - 8
68 - 29
68 - 32
72 - 3

GODsubmitter

So it is similar to the ritual as taught by the late Dr. Rashad Khalifa PhD?

http//www.masjidtucson.org/submission/practices/salat/howtoperformsalat.html

Thanx

GODsubmitter

Pity that the guy who started this thread hasn't returned...

yet...

Man_of_Faith

Salaam,

I think he is with his Arab experts at the academy.

God bless you

dnagroupsa

I am not sure what language namaz is in.... but i am quite sure it is not arabic.
The arabs also pray the ritual salah and therefore i dont think it could be invented by another people who speak another tongue but could have been adopted by them and given the name namaz of which you speak.

The story of Buraq was invented by arabs themselves so i am not sure how you reconcile the two.

Fusion

I am new on here and I have been reading posts and trying to familiarise myself the topics of discussion.
I am really surprised as to the length of this thread and the contents... i mean it started with a simple discussion of how people who only takes Quran will be able to implement the Salat as per the instructions of Quran. If you guys cant agree on this matter and have so less tolerance then how could we blame those who follow hadiths, at least they have some sort of agreed upon base line over centuries, for prayer instructions? I mean they have process on how to pray, they have concept of mosques, then have friday prayer(where one post here claims no friday prayer) and they have the concept of ruku with those who ruku (similar to group salat)

While I was under the impression that God left it on us to pray as we like as long as it has the elements of qayam, ruko and sujod and the fact of prescribed times.

Cheers

Man_of_Faith

The reason people cannot agree upon anything is because they dispute about conjecture.

Be faithful to the Rabb

sword_of_tashayyu

From using Ahadith to interpret Quran, you are relying on man-made 21st dictionaries to interpret the Quran. Bravo! bravo

Man_of_Faith

Have faith sword,

I agree that you should not rely on hadith to interpret Quran and this is why I personally do not.

sword_of_tashayyu

You are interpreting each and every word found in the Holy Quran using a modern dictionary, how is that even possible. Dictionaries are fallible

huruf

I think what is commonly called prayer is not the same as salaat. In the qur'an there is dhkr, there is tasbih, al that tould be translated as prayer or praise of God. But as-salaat I think is communion, that is, the action to return to unity, to tawhid of God and of all that exists and which is out of God. Is the call to commune with that reality. A collective call, a call to everything and everybody. That exists in another religions, maybe in all.

Salaam

GODsubmitter

I think what is commonly called prayer is not the same as salaat. In the qur'an there is dhkr, there is tasbih, al that tould be translated as prayer or praise of God. But as-salaat I think is communion, that is, the action to return to unity, to tawhid of God and of all that exists and which is out of God. Is the call to commune with that reality. A collective call, a call to everything and everybody. That exists in another religions, maybe in all.

Salaam

I like this what you wrote very much!
Thank you

Man_of_Faith

That was my older perception. I see that people make progress.

Ensh'Allah you will also soon realize that the word does not even imply communication at all, and there are other words to connote communication.

Have faith

Farabi

I always felt good after sholat. When I did not do sholat, my temper was raised. But after I did sholat everything is felt good. Even better than any anti-depressant drugs.

Man_of_Faith

Harmony be with you Farabi,

It may that your faith that it will help you will give you a placebo effect just like drugs do. We should not delude ourselves.

If you have faith that meditation will help you will have the same effect.

Have faith

Farabi

Harmony be with you Farabi,

It may that your faith that it will help you will give you a placebo effect just like drugs do. We should not delude ourselves.

If you have faith that meditation will help you will have the same effect.

Have faith

Ahem, I did not delude my self, the good feeling is real. Have you not tried it?

Man_of_Faith

I have done it and I have experienced a feeling similar to yours, but I also critically examine things and I drew the conclusion that the effect is placebo. You can achieve it with anything for as long as you have faith in it. And concerning "God" everything is circulating around faith anyway, but faith not in superstitious rituals and rites for which perceived positive effects are generated because you put faith in them yourself.

If you make a ritual for yourself that every time you do a good deed to a person then your 'karma' is boosted you will also get a "placebo" effect. The difference between empty words towards "God" and doing the good deed is that the 'karma' is not only perceived to be boosted but it happens for real.

Delude is not ill-meant, it means that you falsely believe something to be true. I have also been a bit deluded about things previously.

Have faith