Polygamy refutation (verse 4:3)
-
Salaam
Traduction 1 Monotheist Traduction
42 And give the orphans their money, and do not replace the good with the bad, and do not consume their money with your money; for truly this is a great sin!
43 And if you fear that you cannot be just to the orphans, then you may marry those who are agreeable to you of the women two, and three, and four. But if you fear you will not be fair, then only one, or whom you maintain by your oaths. This is best that you do not face financial hardship.
44 And give the women their dues willingly, and if they remit any of it to you of their own will, then you may take it with good feelings.Traduction 2 Replacing problematic words with their phonetics
42 And give the orphans their money, and do not replace the good with the bad, and do not consume their money with your money; for truly this is a great sin!
43 And if you fear that you cannot AQSITOU with orphans, then you ANKIHOU those who TABA to you of the women MOUTHANNA, THOULATH, and ROUBAA. But if you fear you will not AADILOU, then only one, or whom MA MALAKAT AYMANOUKOUM. This is best that you do so you don?t ?AAOULOU?.
44 And give the women their SADAQA NIHLATAN, and if they remit any of it to you of their own will (TIBNA), then you may take it with good feelings.Traduction 3 mine Traduction (sorry for my english).
42 And give the orphans their money, and do not replace the good with the bad, and do not consume their money with your money; for truly this is a great sin!
43 And if you fear that you cannot do your duty of equity with orphans, then you can help women (in need) to marry by goodness as much as you can by two, by three, and by four. But if you fear you will not Just, then only one, or who is in concubinage status with you. This is better than you monopolise fortune and search highness
44 And give the women their alms/charity as dowry, and if they remit any of it to you of their good will, then you may take it with good feelings.First, polygamy understanding cannot explain the link with orphans (if you fear not just with orphans)
Second, even in monotheist traduction, charity context of the three verses is obvious.Let go back to contested words in traduction.
AQSITOU QISTAS is used in quran to mean balance (17-35 ;26-82). QIST is equity not justice.ANKIHOU Nikah is contract of marriage and has no relation with sex. Proof in 33-49.
3349 O you who believe, if you make NIKAH the believing females, then divorce them before having intercourse with them, then there is no interim required of them. You shall compensate them, and let them go in an amicable manner.
Quran uses Form ANKIHOUKA in verse 28-27. that form is used there by stepfather of Moses who want not to marry Moses but make him marry with one of his daughter.TABA neither want or agreeable. Goodness. Good feelings. Used in 4-4
MOUTHANNA, THOULATH, and ROUBAA. Not two, three, four (Ithnain, thalathaton, arbaaton) but by two, by three, by four. Exactly same expression is used in 35-1 to indicate that God sent angels as messengers with power (not wings) by two, by three and by four. Angels with 3 wings ???
AADILOU means justice not equity. To be just mean to give someone what he merit. The flawed argument of lan taadilou (4-129) is out of context. 4-129 is speaking about justice towards a women in case of divorce. It is speaking about divorce and not Marriage.
MA MALAKATAYMANOUKOM. Concubine. Girlfriend. Quran is clearly asking believers to free their ?old? concubines and help them to marry. In 33-50, Quran mention that Allah knows the obligation he imposed towards the MMA. In 16-71, Quran clearly ask to marry with their MMA. 4-24 clearly asks to marry the MMA if they wanted so. Marry them or liberate them.
This subject is complex.AAOULOU. Clear meaning of being higher than others and monopolize fortune. We don?t have to do so and we are asked to some equity with poor.
SADAQA something given by charity. Also applicable for sincerity (for given words).
NIHLATAN used for something given with no exchange. Appliable to dowry.
- .
.
Conclusion There is absolutely no polygamy in quran. There was never been. it is only chaytan who teached us so.
Peace
- .
-
Peace,
Just look at how God created mankind. It was man and woman he created them. Not man and women.
Regardless, consider the quota of men vs. women in the world and you see that this preference for marriage under a utopia setting is illogical. There would simply need to be more people born women.
And most tales in authentic narrations where God gave authority the righteous men had only one wife. That is the normalized scenario even if Muhammad seemingly had several due to cultural shortcomings and this prophet was also prohibited from taking more wives but told not to break up the existing marriages as this would also be fatal to the family balance.
There is actually very little polygamy in ancient narrations even if they can be grotesque in some of them, but most of them had only one wife but female servants which were under some oath where the wife could sometimes allow the husband to be involved with sex with the servant so they could carry on their offspring in case the wife was "barren". BUT, I am fully aware that certain narrations are fictitious stories attributed to these righteous men according to standard traditions from that time. But if you carefully study Bible you will be intrigued by the lack of polygamy actually in general and that many of them had "only" one wife.
This allowed polygamy from right to left is stupidity and it is only due to this
6116 And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of God; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.
And thanks noshirk for bringing this up again and I wish that we could show the world once and for all that there should under no circumstances be polygamy on this darn Earth unless Shaytaan is controlling. Such stupidity, idiocy! Hypocrites! Fools!
Marry ONE woman and be content together and follow the concept of Adam and Eve instead. There was certainly a formula that God had for us from day 1, full stop.
Sorry I got carried away but this topic makes me a bit upset that people can believe in the idiocy they hear and read.
God bless you
-
Peace Man of Faith,
I understand your feelings entirely and I agree with your argument. You don't have to look very far in the Koran to find evidence that polygamy is not promoted. Just the story of Noah and everything in pairs is enough.....
-
43
If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice (no limit to this point) mathna wathulathawarubaAAa;(I think this part is saying something like ?those in need, willing and able ) but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly , then only one,(now the limit is being set ? for those not able to be fare) or be satisfied with what you have already (if you are already married), that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.6142
O ye who believe! When death approaches any of you, (take) witnesses among yourselves when making bequests,- two just men of your own?..why two , why can?t it be more then two?
4175
Allah (thus) directs you as regards your Children's (Inheritance) to the male, a portion equal to that of two females??Male not equal to a female, why??
I think ?mathna wathulathawarubaAAa? are not numbers at all.
peace
-
Ustaz Azhar Idrus and Abu Ameena Bilal Phillips can bang their heads to wall for following satans' lies and attribute this satanic teachings to God the Lord.
-
http//zainabslounge.blogspot.com/2013/11/a-discourse-on-polygamy.html?m=1
-
I always curious with anti-polygamy theories, because Nabi's wives always written as plural.
What purpose of this theory?? To make Islam sound good or just to tackle Islamophobes hmm
Who cares.
-
I always curious with anti-polygamy theories, because Nabi's wives always written as plural.
What purpose of this theory?? To make Islam sound good or just to tackle Islamophobes hmm
Who cares.
asdfghjkl
Do not mean to be an apologist but I think Prophet was allowed to take many wives because womenmen ratio was very high at his time. Maybe.
Verse 3350 only says the "polygamous commandment" is only for Prophet but not others.
This 43 issue bothers me a lot. Just look at the so-called Muslim countries. Go to polygamy article on Wikipedia and look at the map.
-
because womenmen ratio was very high at his time. Maybe.
I already expected some answer like this.Assumption.
So please remove Quran from dictionary from now, it's better you became agnostic, learn anything from the start/zero like me
Peace
-
I already expected some answer like this.Assumption.
So please remove Quran from dictionary from now, it's better you became agnostic, learn anything from the start/zero like me
Peace
Hey it's me. I have said in your thread that the word "agnostic" may not be the best word to describe you.
Hmm that's why I said maybe.
I am also still curious about why the Prophet had to be polygamous.
Maybe we have to dig the history deeper. -
Maybe we have to dig the history deeper.
History contains many speculations, cannot be reliable
Please read http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606056.msg343700#msg343700
-
Maybe we have to dig the history deeper.
History contains many speculation theories, cannot be reliable.
Please read http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606056.msg343700#msg343700
-
http//zainabslounge.blogspot.com/2013/11/a-discourse-on-polygamy.html?m=1
??? there is nothing to refute. only opinions based on nothing.
To understand 33-50 to 33-52 there is an important question.
What was the religion of Muhammad before quran revelation ?
Quran says that he was an Ommi from an Ommi people.Ommi means people with no book (from god).
Quran says to us that Muhammad was an orphan, poor and that he became rich after that.A rich pagan man is probably a man with many wifes and concubines.
No ?I know it is difficult to think outside the box of tales about khadija and aisha and so on.
Muhammad had many concubines before becoming prophet (Please stop believing in hadiths).Peace
-
??? there is nothing to refute. only opinions based on nothing.
To understand 33-50 to 33-52 there is an important question.
What was the religion of Muhammad before quran revelation ?
Quran says that he was an Ommi from an Ommi people.Ommi means people with no book (from god).
Quran says to us that Muhammad was an orphan, poor and that he became rich after that.A rich pagan man is probably a man with many wifes and concubines.
No ?I know it is difficult to think outside the box of tales about khadija and aisha and so on.
Muhammad had many concubines before becoming prophet (Please stop believing in hadiths).Peace
Salaam,
Quran does not say anything what you say above.
Then how is it possible to refute something which is not there hmmAs long as people keep trying to understanding The Quran with ahadith and own insertions you will get only these kind of discussions.
Salaam,
Bender -
Salaam,
Quran does not say anything what you say above.
931 By the late morning.
932 And the night when it falls.
933 Your Lord has not left you, nor did He forget you.
934 And the Hereafter is better for you than the first.
935 And your Lord will give you and you will be pleased.
936 Did he not find you an orphan and He sheltered you?
937 And He found you lost, and He guided you?
938 And He found you in need, so He gave you riches?
939 As for the orphan, you shall not make him sad.
9310 And as for the beggar, you shall not reprimand.
9311 And you shall proclaim the blessings from your Lord.Peace
-
931 By the late morning.
932 And the night when it falls.
933 Your Lord has not left you, nor did He forget you.
934 And the Hereafter is better for you than the first.
935 And your Lord will give you and you will be pleased.
936 Did he not find you an orphan and He sheltered you?
937 And He found you lost, and He guided you?
938 And He found you in need, so He gave you riches?
939 As for the orphan, you shall not make him sad.
9310 And as for the beggar, you shall not reprimand.
9311 And you shall proclaim the blessings from your Lord.Peace
Salaam,
Thank you for the verses, now try to read them with a clear mind and heart, I am sure it does not say what you assume.
Salaam,
Bender -
There have been and may be there are many occasions in history where marriage was may be not absolutely, but certainly in a great measure more a way to contract alliances than to make people happy. Happiness they should arrange some other way. That has been case till very recently of royal marriages. Out of the question to marry for beauty, love or money, unless they coincided with state interests. Marriages were arranged by their interested persons or their helpers as a political or social tool for power or standing or fortune.
In some societies, like aztec societies, poligamy was restricted to the ruling classes. The war tolls were heavy in losses for those classes and the stability and strength of the state depended a lot on the solidness of the ties between all components of the the ruling classes. It was not a privilege, it was a duty.
In other societies, poligamy may not have ben prohibited to lower classes, but surely it was far less common. I think that was the case in anient Egypt and in most socieities where poligamy is recognized by law. And where it has not been recognized by law, like most christian european societies, it existed nonetheless, almost exclusively among the higher classes, but it was regarded as a second class marriage. Only later in history XVIII, XIX century it derived into the mos humiliating condition for the woman, who was used all the same but which got no acknowledgement either for herself or her children.
At the time of the Prophet in Arabia, it seems that poloigamy was also common, and, to be expected amonst the ruling classes. When the prophet attained that "rank", it was only tob e expected that the alliances and supports arrangement particularly through marriage would have been taken for granted. I do not even think that it occurred to the prophet that he could refuse such things if they did result in improvement for the believers and for the population at large. He was a good person, a gentle man, what was there to loose for a woman of the family to contract such an advantageous alliance? What could be reason to refuse? That he had already a wife? So what? All powerful people has already awife and then more... I do not think he could refuse or that he would refuse knowing that that would be taken as an afront as a hostile act. The proposers might have understood that he haggled on the terms and conditions but not a refusal.
So, I do not think it was something in which he had or could see a choice.
The revelation liberated him when it prohibited to acquire new wives or replace any. And that must have been along with the revelation of Qur'an with the injunction to marry the single, which in itself is a regulation valve which suits the demographic conditions of the societies. If there are enough of the other sex to go around, you marry de single, if there is scarcity then you may do something to alleviate it.
Salaam
-
Peace,
Best way to follow God and the Message is to use your best judgement. If you consider polygamy to be immoral then God probably does not like it either.
One of the better explanations to me about the prophet's wives is that the community was told not to break up existing marriages. If the prophet had several wives before he became "more righteous" then it is likely that God gave him some exemption.
The common translations of 3350 seem fishy; it does not seem like an accurate translation even from those who are not bound to the sects. The verse sounds weird in my opinion when I read it using several translations. There has to be some righteous explanation to this verse. 3350 with traditional interpretation means that the prophet could marry an infinite number of wives. It does not sound sane. However, it does not rumble my Faith in Qur'an as God's Message and I know lots is misunderstood due to ignorance and millennia long distortion of the Arabic passages.
God bless you
-
would polygomy be good in this case or bad?
http//historymatters.gmu.edu/d/6271/
confused
I have known long that you are one of those polygamy (polygyny) supporters.
You even said you are married to 3 Sunni gals, remember?Polygamy can be good in a land where the ratio of women to men, let say, 601
What about MEN who can't find single women? Should they steal others' wives? That argument is flawed to defend polygamy.