Polygamy refutation (verse 4:3)
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We can ask ourselves who was "brainy" later. Stick to your shit and stop bothering me here.
Peace out
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Quran quite clearly allows multiple marriage. End of.
Those who try to align their faith with Westernism . . . and make up things . . . well what can you say.
When you talk about Quran verses . . . you derail the argument.
Salaam
the more i read your arguments, the more i am impressed.
hope you are representative of the real spiritual depth of polygamy defensors and that you are not saying that just to make me happy.Peace
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Salaam
the more i read your arguments, the more i am impressed.
hope you are representative of the real spiritual depth of polygamy defensors and that you are not saying that just to make me happy.Peace
Sorry petal - being offensive will not get you out of it. . . you have added nothing to the debate. Simply flinging insults is not an answer . . . the problem is that "Quran only" impressed by Westernism try to find solution to align Islam with Westernism . . . but it doesn't work like that.
If you have anything to add regarding the issue - fine else. . . there is no point answering - is there?
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Really, really,
I am starting to think that those to whom the Qur'an really allows poligamy are the
Chimps
But to even those, it would not be in 4.3. It is a fantastic error of Arabic reading to not differentiate between the in twos, threes , fours, from two, three, and four. And it is also another error of grammar and common sense to not be able to follow in a reading whom the speech is addressed to.
But, I can feel with Chimp. He seems to really BELIEVE, to have blind faith in poligamy of men. If he does not intend to marry that is clever, because very politely he is indicaating to other men that they should also marry the wife he might marry himself, since obvioulsy there are not enough women of marriageable age to go around.
Of course, as commented, any young man can always marry an old women since of those there is no scarcity. But not to forget that they are choosy. So better polish the manners.
Another point to the Chimp. No, 4.3 is not about poligamy, 4.3 is about orphans. It is symptomatic that you say that it is about poligamy when it clearly in the words and the context and the sorrounding ayas are out of concern for the orphans not for the number of wives any deluded male might think that he could manage.
Salaam
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Atrocious English coupled with no knowledge of Arabic . . . this is becoming hallmark of this forum . . .
But to even those, it would not be in 4.3. It is a fantastic error of Arabic reading to not differentiate between the in twos, threes , fours, from two, three, and four. And it is also another error of grammar and common sense to not be able to follow in a reading whom the speech is addressed to.
So why is this "error" there? Countless experts of Arabic have not spotted any error . . . so where did you invent one? So what is your level of Arabic? And what is the error? Please try to be clear.
But, I can feel with Chimp. He seems to really BELIEVE, to have blind faith in poligamy of men. If he does not intend to marry that is clever, because very politely he is indicaating to other men that they should also marry the wife he might marry himself, since obvioulsy there are not enough women of marriageable age to go around.
Once more . . . you people can advance an argument WITHOUT petty insults!
The command is NOT that you have to marry 4. . . you can do! That is WHY most Muslim have 1 wife. The number with multiple wives is very low.
"No, 4.3 is not about poligamy, 4.3 is about orphans. It is symptomatic that you say that it is about poligamy when it clearly in the words and the context and the sorrounding ayas are out of concern for the orphans not for the number of wives any deluded male might think that he could manage. "
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What is you mother tongue? You English is very difficult to understand.
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The verse 43 permits multiple marriages . . . that is undeniable!
In a single instance one is allowed to marry up to 4 women . . .there!
And if you fear that you will not deal justly with the orphan girls, then marry those that please you of women, two or three or four. But if you fear that you will not be just, then one or those your right hand possesses. That is more suitable that you may not incline .
The verse is pretty straight forward . . . it says
If you cannot deal justly with Orphans - then do not marry them - BUT - marry from other women and up to four. However - if you cannot be just then confine yourself to marrying just a single lady. And it is better sticking to a single lady rather than committing injustice by marrying multiple wives.
Now . . . what is so difficult?
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No, Chimp, I am not going to get worked up because anybody in a forum disparage my English, as if I gave a damn about it. It is not my mother tongue and it is too late now yor you to give any omplex about it or about the Arabic or about anything.
That you repeat one hundred or a thousand times the same thing over and over merely on your word, is not going to change the fact that ALWAYS those words mathnaa, thulaath and rubaa3 means by two, by three, by fours, and not two, three and four, which are ethnain, thalatha and arba3a.
Always it is so. And the translators who translate that otherwise know it, but it seems they cannot get out of the delusion box, they would have to think of the possibility that it means what they do not want it to mean. Just bring yourself an instance where those words, other than in 4.3 mean simply two, three and four.
On the other hand, you do invent, eh?
What are the words in
arabic that you have translated as" then do not marry them - BUT - marry from other women and up to four. "
You do invent.
Salaam
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No, Chimp, I am not going to get worked up because anybody in a forum disparage my English
And why should you?
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Your English is poor.
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Disparage is perhaps not the choicest of the word. Especially - as I have done my best to understand you.
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No one has "disparaged" you because of your English - so what is there to be worked up about?
I am keen to know what you mother tongue is.
as if I gave a damn about it.
Sorry - I think that is wrong attitude to take . . . if you are going to use it . . . few improvements here and there will help!
It is not my mother tongue and it is too late now yor you to give any omplex about it or about the Arabic or about anything.
hmm . . . ! . . . giveup
That you repeat one hundred or a thousand times the same thing over and over merely on your word, is not going to change the fact that ALWAYS those words mathnaa, thulaath and rubaa3 means by two, by three, by fours, and not two, three and four, which are ethnain, thalatha and arba3a.
Yes. And?
Always it is so. And the translators who translate that otherwise know it, but it seems they cannot get out of the delusion box, they would have to think of the possibility that it means what they do not want it to mean. Just bring yourself an instance where those words, other than in 4.3 mean simply two, three and four.
Sweetheart - here is the problem . . . you seem to have some translation problem . . . you do not know what it is and/or are unable to express it either.
What are the words in
arabic that you have translated as" then do not marry them - BUT - marry from other women and up to four. "
You do invent.
Invent what? What is it that you think I have invented?
Now - I am going to guess . . . what you seem to be having trouble with is this
As they do not use the normal Arabic number format. In Arabic Mathna means - in two or two at a time
What you seem not to know is what difference this makes . . . as you have no been able to express it. . . I will explain
You are allowed to have up to 2, 3 or 4 wives at a time. In other words - say someone is married to 4 women and then one dies and he decides to marry another one. . . . can he or can he not? Yes - he can. As he can have up to 4 wives at a time and not total of four wives.
I hope that clarifies and i have understood what you are saying. So far . . . you have not said . . . what this verse means . . .you are just adamant that this is not allowing multiple wives . . . but don't actually know what it means.
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Chimp,
Nothing you write is going to change the numeral system. Sorry. The numeral system will not change for you.
The fact that you keep going on and on about Huruf's English, is proof that you are running out of an argument. laugh
And it is a fact that - Huruf's English is poor and it is difficult to understand. Despite that - I have answered.
Nothing you write is going to change the numeral system. Sorry. The numeral system will not change for you.
You say this . . . but it mean nothing. What numeral system? And why should it change for me?
I am sorry
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You cannot answer.
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You do not answer.
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You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
In such ways - you are NOT fooling even your own self . . . the verse 43 permits polygamy. Now get over it. If you have anything meaningful to add - do so. Else - do not bother.
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Oh Great Arabic Grammarian ( AKA The Chimp--the kind that makes it up as he goes along)
Nowhere within that verse does it say "up to two, three, or four women". It says quite clearly "twos, threes, and fours". I'm surprised that you completely missed that, given that you have quite clearly mastered the Arabic language, sweetheart -*
Let us all thank Allah for bestowing us with the "knowledgeable" Mr. Chimp.
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Oh Great Arabic Grammarian ( AKA The Chimp--the kind that makes it up as he goes along)
Nowhere within that verse does it say "up to two, three, or four women". It says quite clearly "twos, threes, and fours". I'm surprised that you completely missed that, given that you have quite clearly mastered the Arabic language, sweetheart -*
Let us all thank Allah for bestowing us with the "knowledgeable" Mr. Chimp.
You are repeatedly abusive and personal. . . why?
the kind that makes it up as he goes along
And what is it that I have made up?
Nowhere within that verse does it say "up to two, three, or four women".
Read the verse
the last mentioned number is four and that is it. Hence it is up to four. My dear - this is so basic . . . it is astounding one would fail to comprehend this.
It says quite clearly "twos, threes, and fours".
Two, threes, or fours of what? If not women.
I'm surprised that you completely missed that, given that you have quite clearly mastered the Arabic language, sweetheart -*
But I didn't miss anything!
Let us all thank Allah for bestowing us with the "knowledgeable" Mr. Chimp.
More personal abuse.
What does
"twos, threes, and fours".
This mean . . . look at your 5 posts . . . even you have no clue . . . you are adamant polygamy does not exist - yet do not even know WHAT you are talking about . . .or what the verses is saying.
And your personal petty insults are really sad.
I have already - previously explained this
"As they do not use the normal Arabic number format. In Arabic Mathna means - in two or two at a time
What you seem not to know is what difference this makes . . . as you have no been able to express it. . . I will explain
You are allowed to have up to 2, 3 or 4 wives at a time. In other words - say someone is married to 4 women and then one dies and he decides to marry another one. . . . can he or can he not? Yes - he can. As he can have up to 4 wives at a time and not total of four wives.
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Well, good luck with building that harem. You're not going to get very far, since the truth in regard to this verse is eventually going to spread. I'm already talking about it at every opportunity. So we will see...Mr. Chimp... ;D
A truth - about which you have no clue and clearly unable to express it. A truth for some reason . . . has been suppressed for 1500 years . . . and is now going to be unveiled?
hmm
Ah yes . . . The West go there first! Say no to Polygamy! Make alcohol legal . . . and all the rest.
So why don't you try expressing this hidden truth here? Rather than being childish? What does this twos, threes, and fours means?
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Awww..are you feeling insulted?? Poor thing. '(
None of what you said made any sense, by the way. P
"In two"???? Marry them "in two"?? Yeah, that made a lot of sense. Now, you're just insulting the language itself. I'm pretty sure that Allah does not have a disdain for the numeral system, as you do. Oh that damn numeral system, messed up my plans for building a harem!! >(
I suppose you do not like to look at literal translations very much, at least, not when it does not suit your agenda. That's too bad, dear.
The literal translation of these words removes the cap of four. So, your "Four Theory" keeps sinking deeper and deeper into the ocean. I believe it is at the very bottom of the sea, right now. You just keep jumping in to retrieve it, and we keep throwing it back in.
Oh, I know you like to have the last word, Mr. Chimp. I'll let you have it.
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Awww..are you feeling insulted?? Poor thing. '(
Attempts at being funny are not going to help. This just highlights - you cannot answer.
None of what you said made any sense, by the way. P
Convenient excuse. But perhaps that is the problem.
"In two"???? Marry them "in two"?? Yeah, that made a lot of sense. Now, you're just insulting the language itself. I'm pretty sure that Allah does not have a disdain for the numeral system, as you do. Oh that damn numeral system, messed up my plans for building a harem!! >(
This is pretense at answering . . . but you "invented" the whole BS to answer to your own self . . .and is in no way an answer to what I have said. All you are doing is being insulting.
I suppose you do not like to look at literal translations very much, at least, not when it does not suit your agenda. That's too bad, dear.
And what is the literal translation? That is what I have been asking you . . . what is it? This is what you have NOT answered. You keep being petty. Right here . . . this is what I am asking you. . .
So what is the "literal translation" - where is your version? And how is what I say wrong?
The literal translation of these words removes the cap of four.
How? And where is the Literal Translation?
So, your "Four Theory" keeps sinking deeper and deeper into the ocean. I believe it is at the very bottom of the sea, right now. You just keep jumping in to retrieve it, and we keep throwing it back in.
Oh, I know you like to have the last word, Mr. Chimp. I'll let you have it.
Hmmm . . . don't worry - I have destroyed your other brethren . . . you all do this. Yuksel himself goes about hiding especially . . . when someone like Ali Sina bested him. He doesn't know Arabic either and tends invent things.
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Chimp, You repeat over and over your staunch blind belief in poligamy and you do not get out of it.
Of ourse in 4.3 nothing is prohibited or commanded poligamy wise, because it is not about poligamy. Not at all.
But you want to give poligamy the standing of a quranic command, and it is not there.
It is not in 4., it is nowhere. Men are no more entitled to have several wives than women are to have several husbands. For those exceptional measures there must be a sufficient cause. The orphans by themselves are not.
And, Chimp, you are not an Arabic speaker, are you?
Salaam
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Peace,
Alcohol is among the substances which cloud your mind so why would people interpret Islam to allow it if the Book says such ones should be avoided? Talk about empty argument. Go home to your brethren and stop accusing honest Faithmen of being wrong about every little thing. We are all different individuals and we follow the Message depending on our Faith, so some people may accept drinking alcohol while some avoid it altogether like me.
Your translation of 43 is so incoherent so it seems you only worked hard to twist its meaning. With such translation the context sounds weird. Try to read the 41 until 45 with that translation and then see if it sounds good. If you say yes then you are not honest to yourself nor us.
What is so beautiful about polygamy that you want to protect it? Because you deem that God gave you the right?
If you have orphans what is the reason for you to marry the women if you apply your brain into the equation?
Why would you be unrighteous towards orphanaged girls while same rights are for them, ie the dowry and legal marriage contract. Why would you not be able to be fair to them? Because they lack their parents so thus you can abuse them and then instead marry other women?
The plain fact is because your stupid translation is WRONG. It cannot be because then the author of the Message would be very incompetent and such you do not regard your idol Muhammad?
I do not care if you are a professor in Arabic because if one does not apply intellect while deciphering the millennia old scripture then they are lost in translation and understanding, such as many mullahs are. Understand that you ought not to follow the majority of people on Earth because hence they lead you away from the Light.
Peace out
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salam all (except chimp to who this post is not addressed)
The chimp is doing what we call a moujadala.
668 And if you encounter those who engage in vain talk about Our revelations, then turn away from them until they move on to a different narrative; and if the devil makes you forget, then do not sit after remembering with the wicked people.
his arguments are based on what ancestors and scholars says.
now, for fun, i will respond to my questions like if i was a chimp
1- What is nikah for you ? Sexual act ?
yes and no. Nikah is Marriage with free women and sexual act with slaves2 -With how many "slaves" can you make "nikah" in your deen ? Are they counted in the "four" ? are they still slaves after nikah or did they obtain "wife " status ?
As much sexual acts as a muslim want (that is taba/goodness for them).
after nikah, a slave still a slave and is not counted as wife.3- Why in 4-4; word sadaqa (charity) is used. When Allah speaks about dowry, he use generally ajr (salary) and it is an obligation. Did you consider what a man gives to his wife as sadaqa ?
Of course. Nikah is just reading verses during a ceremony. It gives no right to the woman. A man can repudiate her with a simple formulaall this a good sample of how chaytan teach islam and quran. when he acts like that, chaytan is called taghut. Islam teached by chaytan is the total opposite of islam teached by god. really total opposite, not a simple joke.
Please read this
Salaam All
Who is taghut ?
Taghut is the chaytan in a special role. The role in which he teaches religion.From root , we know that tagha means disobey and that taghut is who ?lead? to max of disobeying.
Tagha, taghi and so on are used many times in Quran for example for firoun.
Never a man has been called taghut in quran.Taghut word appears in 8 verses.
476 Those who believe fight in the cause of God, while those who reject fight in the cause of Taghut; so fight the supporters of the Chaytan, for the planning of the devil is weak.
Here, clearly, taghut=chaytan who had supporters
560 Say ?Shall I inform you of worse than this as a punishment from God? Those whom God cursed and became angry at them, and He made from them apes and pigs and servants/whorshippers of Taghut. Those have a worse place and are more astray from the right path.?
Here we have worshipping notion of taghut. Those are like pigs and apes.
3917 And for those who avoid serving Taghut, and turn to God in repentance, for them are glad tidings. So give the good news to My servants.
Again, there is notion of worshipping.
2256 There is no compulsion in the system; the proper way has been clarified from the wrong way. Whoever rejects Taghut, and believes in God, indeed he has taken grasp of the strongest hold that will never break. God is Hearer, Knower.
Here we have notion that way of Allah is clearly separated from way of Taghut.
2257 God is the ally of those who believe, He brings them out of the darkness and into the light. As for those who reject, their allies are the Taghut, they bring them out of the light and into the darkness; these are the people of the Fire, in it they will abide.
Clearly, way of taghut is the opposite way of Allah.
451 Did you not see those who were given a portion of the Book, they believe in sorcery and Taghut, and they say to those who rejected ?You are better guided than those who believed the path.?
Here, we have that bielivers in taghut shows bad believers and say they are the good ones. It is also clear that people of taghut have sorcery and many funny beliefs in their rituals.
460 Did you not see those who claimed they believed in what was sent down to you and what was sent before you? They wanted to seek judgment to Taghut, while they were ordered to reject it. It is the Chaytan who wants to lead them far astray.
Here again, we have the notion that supporters of taghut claim to be muslim but, in reality, are worshipping taghut. Chaytan is astraying them.
476 Those who believe fight in the cause of God, while those who reject fight in the cause of Taghut; so fight the supporters of the devil, for the planning of the devil is weak.
Since chaytan astray people telling them that way of taghut is way of Allah, people of taghut have also Jihad in name of Taghut who they call Allah.
1636 And We have sent a messenger to every nation ?You shall serve God and avoid Taghut.? Some of them were guided by God, and some of them deserved to be misguided. So travel the earth, and see how the punishment was of those who denied.
I have no specials comments for this verse.
My conclusion
Chaytan is making false religious teachings to astray people.
Chaytan has no science but only stupidities.
The method of teaching of chaytan is like this
26221 Shall I inform you on whom the Chayatins come down?
26222 They come down on every sinful liar.
26223 They repeat whet the listen, but most of them are liars.Hearsays is teaching method of Taghut science.
The problem is, however, that even if we reject books of hersays, scholars of hearsays, many of their teachings stays in the minds. Purification (zakat) of mind is a permanent work to get a healthy mind (salim). Searching for healthy spirit is islam. It is obtained by prevention (taqwa) from all bullshits, by receiving (tasallom) from allah only.
Human has to use their free will, their reason to distinguish truth from falseness.
I am sure that Taghut teaches many stupids rituals and says ?that?s for Allah?.
Allah gave us to eat and drink.Peace
Peace
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Salaam noshirk,
Thanks for your comforting words. You are right that we ought to ignore the ignorant people who speak like they know the Message and insult those who try to seek the true meaning of the Message without adding a bunchload of conjecture that has no place in God's system.
God bless you