A challenge to those who claim Quran states 5 salat daily
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Peace Bender.
Thank you for your question.
Check these verses out1439
"Praise be to God for granting me, despite my old age, Ismail and Isaac. My Lord answers the prayers.1440
"My Lord, make me one who consistently observes Salat, and also my children. Our Lord, please answer my prayers.And
2172
And we granted him Isaac and Jacob as a gift, and we made them both righteous.2173
We made them imams who guided in accordance with our commandments, and we taught them how to work righteousness, and how to observe the Salat and the Zakat.* To us, they were devoted worshipers.GOD bless you .
Peace.
Salaam good logic,
Yes I can see that the word sallaat is used in those verses, but I do not understand how you derived that it ORGINATED from Ibrahim.
Salaam,
Bender -
Peace Bender.
I do not recall seeing "salat" mentioned before Abraham either in the bible or Qoran. Even though GOD mentioned Noah, Adam...
Unless you or others know otherwise.
So I am assuming " salat" originated with Abraham?
Thank you brother.
Peace.
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Salaams all
I wish I had enough time to read all previous comments before I post but unfortunately don't so forgive me if I say something repeated or out of context.
The way I see salaat
2125
Meaning Take your prayer from the Station of Ibraheem.
For me this ayat is enough and that's how I pray, how they do in our Islamic capital Makkah.This is the only way the whole ummah will pray in unity. The point of Congregation is unity.
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Lately I am more inclined to think that Salat is inspiration and connection to the Divinity when we achieve the enlightened state without our thoughts (programing-data playing in our minds from memories) and we align with the Divinity, that's why it is said in the Qur'an that birds know their Salat.
Now, perhaps at one stage, the 5 daily ritual/namaz may be useful to someone in a mode of taming or disciplining his ego and his mundane/pagan nature...
PS
Abraham might have been a historical person, but he is certainly more a symbol (Brahma) (Av-ram=Aba r*m, then Avraham) and "he" didn't originate or invent the alignment with the Divinity, "he" is just a symbol of that total adherence.Peace
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Peace Bender.
I do not recall seeing "salat" mentioned before Abraham either in the bible or Qoran. Even though GOD mentioned Noah, Adam...
Unless you or others know otherwise.
So I am assuming " salat" originated with Abraham?
Thank you brother.
Peace.
Salaam good logic,
I find this very strange reasoning. Is this method of reasoning only for sallaat or also for other things?
Just a couple of things that comes to mind now
==> 1958 Those are the ones whom God has blessed from among the prophets from the progeny of Adam, and those We carried with Noah, and from the progeny of Abraham and Israel, and from whom We have guided and chosen. When the revelations of the Almighty are recited to them, they fall down prostrating, and in tears.
1959 Then, generations came after THEM who lost the SALLAAT and followed desires. They will find their consequences.
who are THEM in 1959 does it include also Adam and Nuh, if not why not?==> 3117 O my son, hold the contact prayer and advocate righteousness and prohibit vice, and be patient to what befalls you. These are the most honorable traits.
can you prove that Luqmaan and his son where AFTER Ibrahim?==> 1087 And We inspired to Moses and his brother "Let your people leave their homes in Egypt, and let these homes be your qibla, and hold the contact prayer. And give good news to the believers."
qibla orginated from Musa and Harun?==> 1926 "So eat and drink and be happy. If you see any human being, then say 'I have vowed an SAWMAN for the Almighty, so I will not talk today to any of mankind.'"
Sawm orginated from Meryem?==> 2173 is not ONLY about Ibrahim, so not sure why you left the others out of competition.
salaam,
Bender -
Lately I am more inclined to think that Salat is inspiration and connection to the Divinity when we achieve the enlightened state without our thoughts (programing-data playing in our minds from memories) and we align with the Divinity, that's why it is said in the Qur'an that birds know their Salat.
Now I'm also think the same.
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Peace Bender.
Thank you for your post.
Have you forgotten the verse I gave you? {16123}
GOD did not ask to follow " milat" Luqman" or " noah" or "Adam"...
He asked to follow " millat" Abraham. Does "millat" include the rites that include "salat"?
GOD bless you brother.
Peace.
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Peace Bender.
Thank you for your post.
Have you forgotten the verse I gave you? {16123}
GOD did not ask to follow " milat" Luqman" or " noah" or "Adam"...
He asked to follow " millat" Abraham. Does "millat" include the rites that include "salat"?
GOD bless you brother.
Peace.
Salaam,
Your claim was "salaat orginated from Ibrahim" so I do not see a link with your reaction above hmm
RED I dunno, you tell me. I don't even know that sallaat has rites.
Salaam,
Bender -
Peace Bender.
Thank you once more.
Let me explain further, Why I think "salat" is part of the rites of "Millat" or " Deen"....of Abraham2124
Recall that Abraham was put to the test by his Lord, through certain commands, and he fulfilled them. (God) said, "I am appointing you an imam for the people." He said, "And also my descendants?" He said, "My covenant does not include the transgressors.2127
As Abraham raised the foundations of the shrine, together with Ismail (they prayed) "Our Lord, accept this from us. You are the Hearer, the Omniscient.2128
"Our Lord, make us Muslims to You, and from our descendants let there be a community of Muslims to You. Teach us the rites of our religion, and redeem us. You are the Redeemer, Most Merciful.2130
Who would forsake the Millat of Abraham, except one who fools his own soul? We have chosen him in this world, and in the Hereafter he will be with the righteous.2132
Moreover, Abraham exhorted his children to do the same, and so did Jacob "O my children, God has pointed out the Deen for you; do not die except as Muslimeen."I hope this clarifies for you my understanding of why I think the rites ,including "salat" have originated from Abraham.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Bender.
Thank you once more.
Let me explain further, Why I think "salat" is part of the rites of "Millat" or " Deen"....of Abraham2124
Recall that Abraham was put to the test by his Lord, through certain commands, and he fulfilled them. (God) said, "I am appointing you an imam for the people." He said, "And also my descendants?" He said, "My covenant does not include the transgressors.2127
As Abraham raised the foundations of the shrine, together with Ismail (they prayed) "Our Lord, accept this from us. You are the Hearer, the Omniscient.2128
"Our Lord, make us Muslims to You, and from our descendants let there be a community of Muslims to You. Teach us the rites of our religion, and redeem us. You are the Redeemer, Most Merciful.2130
Who would forsake the Millat of Abraham, except one who fools his own soul? We have chosen him in this world, and in the Hereafter he will be with the righteous.2132
Moreover, Abraham exhorted his children to do the same, and so did Jacob "O my children, God has pointed out the Deen for you; do not die except as Muslimeen."I hope this clarifies for you my understanding of why I think the rites ,including "salat" have originated from Abraham.
GOD bless you.
Peace.Salaam,
Thanks for your analysis.
We can discuss this very long, but our methods and understandings are to different that a futher discussion will not be very fruitful I guess. And I think it is also off-topic.Salaam,
Bender -
Salam Wakas,
Lest it is lost by of topic
Salamun alaikum;
- Lane says Basic perception He clave, ; cut, or divided, lengthwise this is the primary signification, whence several others, to be mentioned below, are derived Time reference the light of morning; (Mgh, K because it is a cleaving of the darkness from before the light; (Mgh i. e., the redness of the sun in the darkness of night; (K the in the end of the night is like the in the beginning thereof (S, O it is twofold the first is called ; that which rises without extending laterally, (, Mgh, Msb,) which appears black, presenting itself like an obstacle (ا
2, 3, 4 These are mentioned in one compound sentence
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/011.%20Hud%20alaihissalm/11.114.gif
The figure of speech is climax; placement of words in ascending order towards the incoming moments of night.
The two timings for obeying the command are
It a possessive phrase for which reason Noon of first DUAL noun is dropped the two visual transitions-edges of the bright day tapering towards the incoming night.
The fourth is at
"the early moments of the night". This sentence/time is defined by referring to the Sun
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/017.%20Al%20Israa/17.78.gif
"the point in time of rubbing and smoothly getting away of the Sun to the boundary of night getting cool and dark".and
5 the definite time is
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Salam Wakas,
Do you think and translate the phrase as two corners on a straight line
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/114.%20Anhaar%20Noon%20Haa%20Ra/2.gifhttp//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/01.Roots%20originating%20in%20Sura%20003/34.%20Tarfan%20Toi%20Ra%20Fa/2.gif
1.Fajr___________________________________________2 Isha
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Good idea
The common problems with 5 salat daily timings as per The Quran
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/problems-5-salat-Quran.htmlSalam everybody, Its been a while since my last post but have been dipping in and out of the forum. I thought I'd share this response from bro Joseph to Wakas's critique. (A request from a sister).
http//quransmessage.com/critiques/Response%20to%20Wakas.htm
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Salaam ,
I give you simple proofs ... to prove that quran states 5 salat daily ... by using numeric miracle of this two key phrases of words ...
- Observe the Contact Prayers ( ة
This phrase occurs exactly 5 times in quran ...
11114 You shall observe the Contact Prayers (1) at both ends of the day, and during the night. The righteous works wipe out the evil works. This is a reminder for those who would take heed.
1778 You shall observe the Contact Prayer (2) when the sun declines from its highest point at noon, as it moves towards sunset. You shall also observe (the recitation of) the Quran at dawn. (Reciting) the Quran at dawn is witnessed.2014 "I am God; there is no other god beside Me. You shall worship Me alone, and observe the Contact Prayers (3) to remember Me.
2945 You shall recite what is revealed to you of the scripture, and observe the Contact Prayers (4), for the Contact Prayers prohibit evil and vice. But the remembrance of God (through Salat) is the most important objective.* God knows everything you do.
3117 "O my son, you shall observe the Contact Prayers (5). You shall advocate righteousness and forbid evil, and remain steadfast in the face of adversity. These are the most honorable traits.
- Turn your face towards the Sacred Masjid
This phrase also occurs exactly 5 times in quran ...
2144 We have seen you turning your face about the sky (searching for the right direction). We now assign a Qiblah that is pleasing to you. Henceforth, you shall turn your face towards the Sacred Masjid (1). Wherever you may be, all of you shall turn your faces towards it (2). Those who received the previous scripture know that this is the truth from their Lord. God is never unaware of anything they do.
2149 Wherever you go, you shall turn your face (during Salat) towards the Sacred Masjid (3). This is the truth from your Lord. God is never unaware of anything you all do.2150 Wherever you go, you shall turn your face (during Salat) towards the Sacred Masjid (4) ; wherever you might be, you shall turn your faces (during Salat) towards it (5). Thus, the people will have no argument against you, except the transgressors among them. Do not fear them, and fear Me instead. I will then perfect My blessings upon you, that you may be guided.
All the facts given above ... I extract from ...
http//www.universalunity.org/17.html#TheFiveDailyContactPrayersAnd for the determination of middle prayer (salat wustha) ... just apply code 19 for these two verses AQ2238 & AQ1031 ...
2238 You shall consistently observe the Contact Prayers, especially the middle prayer, and devote yourselves totally to God .
1031 By the afternoon (asr)
22381031 = 19 x 1177949 -------> proof that middle prayer refer to afternoon prayer (asr) ---------> subsequently total prayer should be five ---------> dawn/noon/afternoon/sunset/night prayer ...
Thanks .
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Salaam ,
I give you simple proofs ... to prove that quran states 5 salat daily ... by using numeric miracle of this two key phrases of words ...
- Observe the Contact Prayers ( ة
This phrase occurs exactly 5 times in quran ...
11114 You shall observe the Contact Prayers (1) at both ends of the day, and during the night. The righteous works wipe out the evil works. This is a reminder for those who would take heed.
1778 You shall observe the Contact Prayer (2) when the sun declines from its highest point at noon, as it moves towards sunset. You shall also observe (the recitation of) the Quran at dawn. (Reciting) the Quran at dawn is witnessed.2014 "I am God; there is no other god beside Me. You shall worship Me alone, and observe the Contact Prayers (3) to remember Me.
2945 You shall recite what is revealed to you of the scripture, and observe the Contact Prayers (4), for the Contact Prayers prohibit evil and vice. But the remembrance of God (through Salat) is the most important objective.* God knows everything you do.
3117 "O my son, you shall observe the Contact Prayers (5). You shall advocate righteousness and forbid evil, and remain steadfast in the face of adversity. These are the most honorable traits.
- Turn your face towards the Sacred Masjid
This phrase also occurs exactly 5 times in quran ...
2144 We have seen you turning your face about the sky (searching for the right direction). We now assign a Qiblah that is pleasing to you. Henceforth, you shall turn your face towards the Sacred Masjid (1). Wherever you may be, all of you shall turn your faces towards it (2). Those who received the previous scripture know that this is the truth from their Lord. God is never unaware of anything they do.
2149 Wherever you go, you shall turn your face (during Salat) towards the Sacred Masjid (3). This is the truth from your Lord. God is never unaware of anything you all do.2150 Wherever you go, you shall turn your face (during Salat) towards the Sacred Masjid (4) ; wherever you might be, you shall turn your faces (during Salat) towards it (5). Thus, the people will have no argument against you, except the transgressors among them. Do not fear them, and fear Me instead. I will then perfect My blessings upon you, that you may be guided.
All the facts given above ... I extract from ...
http//www.universalunity.org/17.html#TheFiveDailyContactPrayersAnd for the determination of middle prayer (salat wustha) ... just apply code 19 for these two verses AQ2238 & AQ1031 ...
2238 You shall consistently observe the Contact Prayers, especially the middle prayer, and devote yourselves totally to God .
1031 By the afternoon (asr)
22381031 = 19 x 1177949 -------> proof that middle prayer refer to afternoon prayer (asr) ---------> subsequently total prayer should be five ---------> dawn/noon/afternoon/sunset/night prayer ...
Thanks .
Peace -- are you consistent?
- 512 establish you (masculine plural) al-alata
- 11114 and establish (masculine singular) al-alata
- 1778 establish (masculine singular) al-alata
- 2014 and establish (masculine singular) al-alata
- 2945 and establish (masculine singular) al-alata
- 3117 establish (masculine singular) al-alata
- 3333 and establish (feminine plural) al-alata
2144
- so turn face your (masculine singular) direction al-masjid al-haraam
- so turn ye of faces yours (masculine plural) direction its
2149
3. so turn face your (masculine singular) direction al-masjid al-haraam2150
4. so turn face your (masculine singular) direction al-masjid al-haram
5. so turn ye of faces yours (masculine plural) direction its -
This writing of masculine plural is a real trap. Everything that is not specifically feminine is called masculine although we do know without any doubt that there is a plural which is general, that is, cinludes anybody of any sex. Most "masculine plurals" in the Qur'an, as anywhere, are not masculine but global. That grammarians have not come with a proper figure for that is a grammatical misdeed, and given it a proper name is a grammatical misdeed but that does not change the substance of what is spoken or written.
It is fraudulent to make it masculine and exact one hundred scientifical evidences in order to allow texts, in this case the Qur'an to speak of both sexes everytime the "masculine" plural appears.
Also there is the singular masculine, which in fact is not such but inspecified singular when we speak of any person. We may be saying you, but we may be referring to an unspecified you who can be any person.
Salaam
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In addition to Noon's post, is mankind lost only by the afternoon?
1031 By the afternoon.,
1032 The human being is utterly lost.,Salaam ,
Some interesting points given by this article ... point 4 onwards ...
http//www.universalunity.org/17.html#MiddlePrayer
Thanks .
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Those "interesting" points you refer have no consistency, one of the fundamental flaws in code 19 maths. In any case, here are my two favourite threads on code 19
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=16958.0
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9601308.0They are very telling in my opinion.
