A challenge to those who claim Quran states 5 salat daily
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Br. Mazhar,
salaam/peace.I know point in time does not necessarily mean duration. You, like myself, use verses to determine time parameters of salat. I am simply trying to ascertain what verses you use and how you use them in a clear manner so we can actually examine your view.
I will try one last time to clarify my request.
From here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606088.msg346685#msg346685
I saidFor those that do, please provide the following information for each of the 5 alleged daily salat
Name/reference for salat (with Quran references)
Time start point (with Quran references)
Time end point (with Quran references)In my article http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/problems-5-salat-Quran.html
I saidA relatively common problem in such articles is that whilst verses are cited to indicate times, the specific times are not clearly explained and defined. This is likely because specifics do not exist. For clarity, it is preferable to have the following basic information made clear IF it is available, for each salat
name/reference for salat as per Quran, if any (verse references for this)
salat time range start point and end point (verse references for this)For sake of argument, let's assume everything you said about grammar in your post above is correct, my request does NOT depend on whether you or I view it as a name or not, all I am requesting are the salat references and times of each. I actually have little problem accepting what you said is correct, because whether it is a name or not is irrelevant, as both options (i.e. name or not name) are covered in my request.
So let me clarify and make it as simple as I possibly can. Pay VERY close attention to this next part.
For each of the 5 salat daily in your view, in sequence, please provide these 3 pieces of information
the reference for the salat from The Quran, IF it has one (verse references for this)
i.e. whatever you refer to it as, I dont care if you refer to it as "1st salat of the day" or even if it has no reference/term as long as you clearly state so.salat start point IF it has one (verse references for this)
Be as specific as you can for the start point IF it has one. If it does not have one just say so.salat end point IF it has one (verse references for this)
Be as specific as you can for the end point IF it has one. If it does not have one just say so.Please note I will not respond if you refer to your diagram, which I personally find unclear, and it is likely no coincidence no one on this forum has ever used it (nor your article) to explain to others when 5 salat daily from Quran are meant to be performed.
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Peace Wakas.
In her book Muhammad, A Biography of the Prophet, Harper, 1992, pp. 148 and 163, Armstrong mentioned - without quoting sources - that the Arabs during the time of Muhammad also practiced three daily Salat prayers similar to the Jews, i.e. morning, noon and evening. In Quran 11114, three Salat prayers are described at both ends of the day, and at night'
Since the " Qibla" change or as you described yourself, after the " Miraaj" they practiced 5 daily salat prayers.The Quran lists all five daily prayer times, from dawn, noon, afternoon, sunset/evening to the night, see 2458, 1778, 2238.
These "Salawat" must be observed at specific times during the day (4103)
- The Dawn salat must be observed from dawn until before sunrise.
- The Noon salat is due when the sun start to decline from its highest point at noon up to mid afternoon.
- The Afternoon salat can be observed from mid afternoon until prior to sunset.
- The Sunset prayer becomes due after sunset up to when twilight disappears.
- The night salat can be observed after the twilight disappears from the sky up to dawn.
These are the windows that will be open for each salat. Once the window closes the salat cannot be made up.
I have already given you the references of the 5 daily salat earlier in the thread.
Peace to you.
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Salamun alaikum;
- Lane says Basic perception He clave, ; cut, or divided, lengthwise this is the primary signification, whence several others, to be mentioned below, are derived Time reference the light of morning; (Mgh, K because it is a cleaving of the darkness from before the light; (Mgh i. e., the redness of the sun in the darkness of night; (K the in the end of the night is like the in the beginning thereof (S, O) it is twofold the first is called ; that which rises without extending laterally, (, Mgh, Msb,) which appears black, presenting itself like an obstacle (ا
2, 3, 4 These are mentioned in one compound sentence
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/011.%20Hud%20alaihissalm/11.114.gif
The figure of speech is climax; placement of words in ascending order towards the incoming moments of night.
The two timings for obeying the command are
It a possessive phrase for which reason Noon of first DUAL noun is dropped the two visual transitions-edges of the bright day tapering towards the incoming night.
The fourth is at
"the early moments of the night". This sentence/time is defined by referring to the Sun
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/017.%20Al%20Israa/17.78.gif
"the point in time of rubbing and smoothly getting away of the Sun to the boundary of night getting cool and dark".and
5 the definite time is
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http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/011.%20Hud%20alaihissalm/11.114.gif
I wish someone who knows the scientific delicacies of revolving of day and night reflects on the choice of words and their placements in this compound sentence. The day is ascending and the moments of night are approaching-drawing near to it.
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Salat, SJD and RK3 are often mentioned separately.
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Salam and Peace....!
In Al-Quran 3 7, Allah mentions there are two type of Verses in The Book of Hidayah......"Mutashabihaat" and "Muhkamaat".
....."In it are clear verses, which are the foundation of the Book, and others (that are) allegorical. Then those in whose hearts is a deviation, they will follow that which is allegorical in them (verses), seeking mischief, and seeking (their own) interpretation of it. And no one knows its interpretation except Allah. And those firm in knowledge say ?We believe in it, all is from our Lord.? And no one receives admonition except those with understanding." (3 7)
Some people....deviation in their hearts....seeking mischief.....seek their own INTERPRETATIONS of Mutashabihaat.
Now.....the point is .........what is the meaning of Mutashabihaat......I am not going to put dictionary meaning.
One thing we all know is that,...........Mutashabihaat are such Verses on which we can never become unanimous.....absolutely impossible.
Again.......Mutashabihaat Verses are those on which we are bound to have differences of opinions....for sure.Unseen are described in similes, metaphors and allegories (Mutashaabihaat) for your understanding. But those who are given to crookedness in their hearts pursue the allegories and try to give them literal meanings, thus creating dissension of thought. None encompasses their final meaning (of such as the Essence of God, His Throne, His Hand, His Book of Decrees, the exact mode of revelation on the heart of the messengers, the Eternity) but God.
So.....everybody will have his own interpretaion of Mutashabihaat.........So far so good.
But bad aspect starts when some people try to impose their own interpretations of Mutashabihaat on others, and want them to follow it.....they are the ones for whom Allah says....."Then those in whose hearts is a deviation, they will follow that which is allegorical in them (verses), seeking mischief, and seeking (their own) interpretation of it."
This means, clearly.........that Mutashabihaat Verses can never be something we are Commanded to obey......because they can never become Muhkamaat.
Now, in my understanding.......all those Verses of Al Quran on which we differ, are Mutashabihaat...........and everyone of us has his own undertanding........some of those Verses are Verses in which we find the words "Salaat", "Sujood", "Ruku" etc.
All those who claim to follow Al Quran Alone.........some say there is no ritual Salaat.......some say, there are ritual Salaat also....some say five times a day....some say no only three times........some say only two times.
All trying to prove their interpretations putting before us Verses from Al Quran.....and all wish and insist their interpretation is best and must be followed.The word in Al Quran......Salaat....for example........the Quran Aloners will never unite on one understanding (ritual, or not ritual)...........and as such, can never unite.....is Salaat (ritual, or not ritual) also not a Mutashabihaat....?
Disputing over the word "Salaat (is ritual, or is not ritual)".........will create distance among us and divide us.
Better do what you/we understand best..........the main thing is .........if we are really truthful, honest and sincere.........whatever we understand and follow.........Allah will be pleased.
The Creator who created us top to bottom.......knows what is in our hearts.And Allah will not be please..........if anyone of us try to impose his own understanding/interpretation of the word "Salaat".
-----"(They say) ?Our Lord, let not our hearts deviate after when You have guided us, and bestow upon us mercy from Yourself. Indeed, You are the Bestower.? (3 8 )
If one understands truthfully, honestly and sincerely, there are rituals.......then he must do it.....
......if one understands truthfully, honestly and sincerely, there are no rituals........then don't do it.If someone falls in physical sujood before Allah, who is there to object this act......if Allah is has no objections.
For ritual Salaat, any methodology is acceptable before Allah........if the ritual is for Allah Alone....and not for any ghairillah.
But...remember......the mankind does not need our rituals (if there is any).........the (oppressed) mankind needs our Attention, Goodness, Kindness, Help, Peace.
And Goodness is something on which no one of us/even mankind, can have different opinions.
And Goodness is fully mentioned in Al Quran.........and all those Verses mentioning Goodness....are MUHKAMAAT.Goodness.........is an International (Natural) Language.
People of different nations, even if they dont understand each other's languages.............can be Good to one another.Allah will accept all those truthful and sincere hearts that bows before Allah's Clear Commandments "MUHKAMAAT", which are Foundation of Deen, and if they are not followed, there is no Deen.
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Salamun alaika,
Mutashabihaat A little concentration will tell that metaphors are not used in commands and injunctions.
"MUHKAMAAT" . Commands, injunctions, orders use imperative verbs. Salat is the object of imperative verb; hence it is not in the category of Mutashabihaat.
Moreover the conduct of scholars with tilted hearts is not with reference to ayat-Mutashabihaat but it is about the Qur'aan {minho-pronoun is masculine referring the whole Qur'aan]
Grand Qur'aan in the 21st Century
Miscellany of Grand Qur'aan Format and Organization; two types of unitary passages
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peace good logic,
I have already given you the references of the 5 daily salat earlier in the thread.
And I have already replied. You use the same verses and similar argument as I already discuss in the article.
I even asked you to exactly highlight wherein you differ with regard to timings. You highlighted ZERO differences.
Please note, that is not to say there is no differences but if you can't be bothered highlighting them or presenting the information in the requested format, then I will not respond.
The reason I used br. Joseph's article as the primary reference was he actually attempted to clarify each salat and its timing, thus making it easy to examine.
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Peace Wakas.
I have given you my answers and reasons for 5 salat per day from Qoran.
I have also given you why I came to the conclusion of following the messenger. GOD always clarifies the disputes/disagreements by sending a messenger.
With all due respect, I close by wishing you well with your tasks.
May the Lord guide us to His true path.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Good Logic,
I know you meant salat with 2,4,4,3,4 units in each of 5 salats respectively, right? The salat units can be found NOWHERE in the Qur'an.
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Peace Yuliana.
I believe "salat" is preserved from Abraham. Including the units.
Qoran corrected only what was corrupted/lost...
We made them imams who guided in accordance with our commandments, and we taught them how to work righteousness, and how to observe the Salat and the obligatory charity (Zakat)....
In fact, according to the Quran, Islam is called the religion of Abraham, and Muhammad was a follower of Abraham. So were Isaac, Ismail, Jacob, Moses, Aaron, Jesus, and other messengers of God.
Abraham was indeed an exemplary vanguard in his submission to God, a monotheist who never worshiped idols. Because he was appreciative of His Lord's blessings, He chose him and guided him in a straight path. We granted him happiness in this life, and in the Hereafter he will be with the righteous. Then we inspired you (Muhammad) to follow the religion of Abraham, the monotheist; he never was an idol worshiper. (16120-123)
The practices have been preserved in their basic form since the time of Abraham despite the efforts of corruption and distortion by idol worshipers and disbelievers. Each messenger who came after Abraham purified and followed these practices in accordance .
That is my understanding.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
The ritual salats that are practised by Orthodox Jews, Orthodox Christians and Muslims are originated from Talmud.
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Peace Yuliana.
I quoted Qoran not talmud.
As far as I know "salat" originated from Abraham, Qoran {2173} {14 35-40}.
" Rituals" are for those that do not know the true purpose of deen."Salat" It is a connection to the creator.
A personal relationship with GOD requires honesty, obedience and sincerity.
A rirual is meaningless if it does not change the person for the betterIf one is not happy with anything they should not do it.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
I take salat absolutely as communication and seeking inspiration from God and it should be intelligible. Remember a part of The Book were salat is prescribed before an important testimony. Or were soldiers perform salat during a battle. It can be performed in any manner such as driving, riding, walking but best performed in a focused manner in calmness.
I sometimes perform salat while driving and I see results almost instantly. Opportunities arise. It is clear why we are recommended or explicitly told to perform the salat phenomenon.
I have abandoned the five prayer timings because I like many others felt no support from The Book on that matter. However, we should be conscious of God throughout the day and perform salat to help us with inspiration and choices. Salat is explicitly spoken out as prayers for guidance whenever you need some help.
Fixed prayer timing periods are however seemingly prescribed as morning and evening and then at night after that (before bedtime). I find little support for fixed prayers during daytime except for calls on your Lord for guidance in your daily life. The Book often repeats about glorification moments at the beginning and the end of the day. It does rarely even mention anything in the day except one that I suppose is misunderstood to meaning to establish regular prayer/salat whenever required throughout the day as in receiving inspiration and active guidance.
Birds have their salat too and that is how they are mindful of God through the way they are programmed for following God's system without any question such as flying in a certain formation or their species' special sound. And spiders have a distinct pattern on their web. They have autonomous salat. Humans are a bit more free willed and require our input but once commenced is rewarded by God's active guidance and inspiration to make our life choices and directions.
We can say one if not the sole reason for salat is that we may have God's Will be done according to His System and Judgment. We seek to perform all our deeds by connecting to God's superior Judgement.
We do not connect to God in salat to parrot a certain sequence that we trigger some magical buff. And we ought to know what we say during salat meaning the words must be thought through and it should be done in normal voice. Salat in a traditional way I could do on a bottle of booze but perhaps not if I wanted an intelligible communication. It all adds up, does it not?
And with a bottle of booze God's link with superior Judgment is impaired.
Peace
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Peace Wakas.
Thank you for your post.
Here are the verses you requested
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Muhammad A Follower of Abraham*
16123
Then we inspired you (Muhammad) to follow the religion of Abraham,* the monotheist; he never was an idol worshiper.We made them imams who guided in accordance with our commandments, and we taught them how to work righteousness, and how to observe the Salat and the obligatory charity (Zakat)....
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Bender.
Thank you for your question.
Check these verses out1439
"Praise be to God for granting me, despite my old age, Ismail and Isaac. My Lord answers the prayers.1440
"My Lord, make me one who consistently observes Salat, and also my children. Our Lord, please answer my prayers.And
2172
And we granted him Isaac and Jacob as a gift, and we made them both righteous.2173
We made them imams who guided in accordance with our commandments, and we taught them how to work righteousness, and how to observe the Salat and the Zakat.* To us, they were devoted worshipers.GOD bless you .
Peace.
