No Verses in Quran Which Order to Follow "Quran Only"
-
Salaam everyone.
This thread is my opinion if QUran actually never order us to follow Quran Alone withouth anykind of explanations.
Hadist ha-da-tsa, means saying,report, tale, speech, narative.This supportted both Modern and Classical dictionaries.
This means Hadist can also be means kalm and khabr.Example verses
7185 Have they not looked at the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that God has created? Perhaps their time is drawing near; so in which hadits after this one will they believe?
7750 So in what hadits, after it, will they believe?
-Quraniyoons claim if this verse order us to believe Quran Alone but if we read the verses which surrounded that two verses , I mean before you read 7185, read the previous verses first, then you will now if the context of that two verses is the warner to the disbeliever.
-This mean we know if that two verses addressing to disbeliever as a warner and not about ordering us to follow Quran only for theology and fiqh withouth anykind of proper explanations.
Btw in Quran even allow us to ask people who follow previous Books, as well as their Books (Torah and Injeel), if we found some doubt/question (tsyakka/) in our Quran understanding.
1094 If you are in doubt () regarding what We have sent down to you (Quran), then ask those who have been reading the Book from before you. The truth has come to you from your Lord, so do not be of those
who doubt.This mean, there is nothing so called Quraniyoon or ?follow Quran Only?.
If yes we will then always stuck while do critic text on the Quran.Like confuse raki? is allegory or not, Muhammad is name of person or not (because in rule of Arabic, Muhammad is a verb) and etc.
We will only play speculative, like on this http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?board=4.0
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?board=6.0
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?board=7.0Ahmed Mansour, the good scholar himself also claim if not all Ahadith are conjectures, he claim if this need proper research to prove if hadith is conjecture or not.
Read in http//www.ahl-alquran.com/English/show_fatwa.php?main_id=548Btw myself came back to Islam, accepting Quran once again, but I don?t follow so called ?Quraniyoon?/Quran Only anymore, and I need Tanakh, some of Ahadith to understand Quran.
Salaam
-
This mean, there is nothing so called Quraniyoon or ?follow Quran Only?.
Welcome back.. and I agree, it is simply unreasonable to reject all hadith
It is not real life but fantasy
Whereas in real life, we are suppose to learn from history and other human beings
That is the "main theme" of the Quran, history and getting to know each other . . . sharing value of life with others
Therefore, to reject hadiths and every element of justice from other religions is itself an absolute sectarianism
ie. isolating themselves from real world and real life
What is the prohibition?
But there are among (1) men those who patronize
(2) ridiculous hadiths ( ِ
(3) without knowledge (thereby)
(4) misleading from the Path of Allah
and throwing a (5) butt of mockery
for such there will be a humiliating Penalty"
(316)Allah does not prohibit all hadiths....
The prohibition of Allah is specifically related to
(1) ridiculous hadiths ( ِ, ie. not all hadith
(2) hadiths that are misleading from the Path of Allah
(3) using hadith without true knowledge, ie. using hadith without confirm it with the Quran
(4) hadiths that make Islam a butt of mockery
(5) parties, only those who used hadith for religious purposes (ulema, scholars etc)...
or related to the above situations... the prohibition is not for everyone.Only these kind of hadiths (+parties) are prohibited by Allah.. it must satisfy these requirements (conditions)
Maybe you can help interpret the verse . . .
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606020.0
http//1.bp.blogspot.com/-NuwheQwCjt8/UdePsWo3uFI/AAAAAAAAAEo/IlRtJO6lzOw/s200/cover-authentication.JPG
-
Welcome back.. and I agree, it is simply unreasonable to reject all hadith
Welcome, good to know if you actually not "Quraniyoon" follower ;D.
Maybe you can help interpret the verse . . .
For someone who posses good intellectual like you, even don't need my explanation.
You may understand for who is people who use their words to misslead people.May peace be with you
-
good to know if you actually not "Quraniyoon" follower ;D.
I'm not.. by the following principle, and especially not with those who make the covenant. laugh
this is a Confirming Book
in an Arabic tongueto warn those who have wronged <- unjust
and as good tidings to the doers of good <- just(46.12)
http//1.bp.blogspot.com/-_ghCpHM1Yi4/Uqvd_yGyraI/AAAAAAAAARM/pwDqWu2kVwU/s1600/confirm.png
a muslim is a peacemaker . . .
http//www.quran4peace.org/documents/Quran4peace-English-part2.pdf
-
I don't think Quran also confirm books outside Abraham Monotheism if you refer verses like 350.
I ever wrote a speculative theory before http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605798.msg337099#msg337099
http//www.quran4peace.org/documents/Quran4peace-English-part2.pdf
This maybe the only article I accepted from Ayman beside all of his speculations.
-
It doesn't say religion (madhab)... basically it says "just" or "unjust"
to warn those who have wronged <- unjust
and as good tidings to the doers of good <- justand surely Allah does not have religion (faulty generalization) . . . it is unfair to other human beings and living creatures
-
Salam Alaikum.
I agree with this to some extent. Hadith books can be beneficial to know and learn about the history of the time of prophet Muhammad's (pbuh) ministry to some extent, if not entirely. And if we disregard hadith completely, then we wouldn't know where Kaabah is, where Mecca is, where to do hajj and umrah, etc.
Regards.
-
It doesn't say religion... basically it says "just" or "unjust"
I don't have ability for remembering verses in english, so provide number of verses when you talk to me.
and surely Allah does not have religion (faulty generalization) . . . it is unfair to other human beings and living creatures
Not religion, but deen.I see that two things is different
But remember "Inna alladeena 3indallahi Al Islam" 331.Unfair?? The question Is Allah gave us the free will?? http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605936.msg340127#msg340127
I agree with this to some extent. Hadith books can be beneficial to know and learn about the history of the time of prophet Muhammad's (pbuh) ministry to some extent, if not entirely. And if we disregard hadith completely, then we wouldn't know where Kaabah is, where Mecca is, where to do hajj and umrah, etc.
Exactly, rather than play speculations in salat, hajj, sawm, potentially create fitnah to God.
-
The Quran only guides us how to balance different kind of situations and bring justice to the society as a whole, ie. justly balanced
It teaches us the main principle
It is we to apply it in real life . . .
To expand the main principle to the hadith, other religious texts and fields etc.
That's how the society can develop , and not by rejecting everything other than the Quran
-
Unfair?? The question Is Allah gave us the free will??
It is unfair not in that sense, but....
To each of you We prescribed a law and a method
Had Allah willed
He would have made you one nationbut to test you
in what He has given you
so race to good
To Allah is your return all together
and He will inform you concerning that over which you used to differ
(5.4That's why there is no compulsion in our way of life...
There shall be no compulsion in the deen
The right course <- just
has become clear
from the wrong <- unjust
So whoever disbelieves in Taghut <- Allah does not refer to god, but Taghut
and believes in Allah
has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it
And Allah is Hearing and Knowing
2.256A Muslim must now learn how to become Negotiator, Mediator and Conciliator. There is no religion and it is not about to spread Islam, since Islam is not a religion. It is about to spread peace, harmony and unity in the society. It's about benefiting humanity, kindness to His creation and giving to relatives. This is how people from different backgrounds and traditions are able to accept Islam by our Prophet Muhammad pbuh. Unconditional acceptance (respect) of world religious practices and balancing what is just to every living creatures. This is "Din of Islam".
-
Actually it's not easy for me to understand someone's phylosophies coz each person have each own mindmap and perceptions.
Plus it's in english, so I'm not magically connect with what you mean just-unjust and balance.Regarding your premises methodology, I remember someone who use same method which I ever debate with before.
He's the owner of this forum http//www.medialogika.org/ (also full of premises ;D )
Regarding unfair or not , what is your understanding of 2142, 2213, 2284, 639 ?
Yes there is no compulsion of religion, but please read following " So whoever disbelieves in Taghut".
Nowdays there are some creed like Hindhu who still believe on taghut.
Their definition of God and salvation also very different from Abrahamic creed.http//alislamarrahman.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/thaghut.jpg
-
There are many many articles online discussing this "Quran only" subject, some on this site http//free-minds.org/articles?tid=4
others e.g.
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran_True_Sunnah_of_Messenger_Naveed.htm
http//deenrc.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/theauthorityofalquran.pdfFrom my own studies, I have never found the need to require Traditional Hadith to understand a Quran topic.
Some have taken the approach that they can follow Traditional Hadith as long as they are filtered through The Quran, i.e. do not contradict it etc etc. This could be said for any source, not necessarily Traditional Hadith.
-
All those references bring us to one common issue . . . from whom the texts coming from ?
This is sectarianism
However and contradictorily, Islam does not view from those angle
and in fact never mentioned about religion (madhab) in the Quran
I believe to understand Islam, one must imagine there are no religion in this world
One must view the world from the perspective of a child who see there is only human beings
If there are no religions, then there are only two things that matter . . . just or unjust.
This element of just or unjust is one thing that is common (unity) in all religions or human beings.
and this what the Quran is all about, teaching us how to balance and bring justice . . towards human unity
The Quran tell us the foundation and how to seek for further guidance and achieve wisdom
It is this foundation that is perfectly in detail and remain intact
(the Quran is perfectly in detail to the extent it can even communicate to each of us, inspire and solve our daily problems)Complete with example for all eras (history do repeat itself) . . . to guide us how to balance our life and the society
However, the more complex the society, the more challenges to bring balance and justice
There are more system that we need to understand and corroborate it with value from the Quran (foundation)
and those who ignore these facts, are actually isolating themselves from reality and try to live in their own fantasy
(that's why many are leaving the teachings of their religion and resort to secularism and reality etc . . . because "religion" does not have the foundation to support this current situation . . we need "deen", not "religion")
I like this quote . . . but it is those who don't have guidance (Tradition Aloner), so they are wandering in their fantasy. Similarly, there are also Muslims who plan to live in the jungle and build a Muslim Village . . and they are those who are running from reality. Different forms, same objective.
http//chicagofreedomwatch.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/john-fire-lame-deer.jpg?w=490
If we bring to the perspective of our discussion, the value of human beings was determined by his religion . . not by what he really is
-
Most "Quranists" that I have met do not reject books that are not Qur'an, but are just more critical when analyzing those books.
If people can have different views on who Dzul Qarnayn was, why can't people have different views who Quranic Mohammed was?You are right, people still look at lexicons and history to understand Quran.
-
but are just more critical when analyzing those books.
critical to determining from whom the texts or idea coming from....
All those references bring us to one common issue . . . from whom the texts coming from ?
This is sectarianism
If we bring to the perspective of our discussion, the value of human beings was determined by his religion . . not by what he really is
ie. just.. or unjust.
-
critical to determining from whom the texts or idea coming from....
ie. just.. or unjust.
Since when did I say it?
Do not put words into my mouth. -
Greetings and Peace, all group
There are many articles and posts on this, but here is a concise argument from the Qur'an.
6114 "Shall I seek other than GOD as a judge when He has sent down to you the Book fully detailed?" Those to whom We have given the Book know it is sent down from your Lord with the truth; so do not be of those who have doubt.
6115 And the word of your Lord has been completed with truth and justice; there is no changing His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.
2951 Is it not enough for them that We have sent down to you the Book that is being recited to them? In that is a mercy and a reminder for people who believe.
To recap fully detailed, complete, and enough for a believer.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
-
Since when did I say it?
Do not put words into my mouth.I'm not saying you said that.. neither did I mentioned it anywhere you said that in my post.
It is I who said "critical to determining from whom the texts or idea coming from"
my statement, not your statement
Read again.. slowly.
