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  4. No Verses in Quran Which Order to Follow "Quran Only"

No Verses in Quran Which Order to Follow "Quran Only"

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • M Offline
    M Offline
    muslims
    wrote on last edited by
    #81

    Agreed. Hadith isn't regarded as divinely inspired per se... BUT in practise it's not so far off from that.

    Conclusion based on practice can be in any form and cannot be the basis of valid conclusion or argument

    We must make conclusion based on what is "clearly written and accepted by them" for a valid and fair conclusion

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    • Z Offline
      Z Offline
      Zulf
      wrote on last edited by
      #82

      Conclusion based on practice can be in any form and cannot be the basis of valid conclusion or argument

      We must make conclusion based on what is "clearly written and accepted by them" for a valid and fair conclusion

      This is what makes it so difficult to say anything.
      I don't even think there is a clear "them". And nobody speaks for all.
      And this is why we should not judge others. Most likely we are then just guessing and misunderstanding.
      Peace.

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      • M Offline
        M Offline
        muslims
        wrote on last edited by
        #83

        I don't even think there is a clear "them". And nobody speaks for all.
        And this is why we should not judge others. Most likely we are then just guessing and misunderstanding.

        So what does it mean to be Quran Alone, that is accepted by all Quranists ?

        Does Quranism have mazhab ? (refer here)

        It is clear that they rejected every hadith as religious authority, laws or determining our way of life.

        Is this not true ?

        Quranism (Arabic Qurniyn) is an Islamic movement that holds the Qur'an to be the most authentic criterion in Islam. Quranists generally reject the religious authority of Hadith. This in contrast to the Sunni, Shia and Ibadi doctrines which consider hadith essential for the Islamic faith.

        Doctrine

        Quranists reject the authority of hadith on theological grounds, pointing to verses in the Quran which they believe supports their view that all necessary instruction can be found within the Quran, without reference to the Hadith

        The Quranist claim that hadith is not mentioned in the Quran as a source of Islamic theology and practice, was not recorded in written form until more than two centuries after the death of the prophet Muhammed, and contain perceived internal errors and contradictions.

        In the United States it was associated with Rashad Khalifa, founder of the United Submitters International. The group popularized the phrase The Qur'an, the whole Qur'an, and nothing but the Qur'an.

        Quranism

        Do you find my conclusion not based on this understanding?

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        • Z Offline
          Z Offline
          Zulf
          wrote on last edited by
          #84

          So what does it mean to be Quran Alone, that is accepted by all Quranists ?

          It is clear that they rejected every hadith as religious authority, laws or determining our way of life ?

          Is this not true ?

          Seems to be the case yes.

          But being "Quranist" doesn't mean you believe guidance cannot be found outside the quran. Person A may find guidance in source X, while person B finds it in source Y. A source need not be institutionalized (like holy scriptures) in order to be a source of guidance.

          Does Quranism have mazhab ? (refer here)

          That's a list of classification.
          I wonder how many of the "members" of those groupings consider themselves being members of their respective group. Perhaps most of them, considering the tendency of the human being to classify everything including themselves.

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          • M Offline
            M Offline
            muslims
            wrote on last edited by
            #85

            It is clear that they rejected every hadith as religious authority, laws or determining our way of life ?

            Seems to be the case yes.

            I don't believe in religious authority . . . because Allah never talks about religions

            Religion is the opposite of Deen

            Allah doesn't need religion because all human beings are submitting to him, willingly or unwillingly (483)

            Allah doesn't need religion because it is unfair, it is faulty generalization and abuse the concept of justice

            In fact, Ibrahim has no religion, so as Muhammad . . . (367-6

            otherwise Muhammad would become a Christian or Jews since both scriptures are from Allah.

            How could Muhammad rejects Allah Books and Religions?

            Therefore in reality, it is human who need religion to divide the society and be in power, to manipulate and make money from the masses

            Allah doesn't need for human beings to have religion

            Based on this understanding . . . we are human beings and what matter to human beings is just or unjust

            (so as everything .. in pairs, day and night, men and women, good and evil, etc . . . just and unjust , there is no just group A, just group B, just group C)

            and it is common (unity) in all religions and living creatures . . no matter what they are , just or unjust . . good or evil

            Therefore . . every texts and references can be the the authority, laws or determining our way of life (refer here)

            PROVIDED ALWAYS, it is based on the foundation in the Quran . . . ie. the ROOTS of a tree of life

            It is totally based on the elements of balance and justice

            and the Quran is the foundation (roots)

            I think the verse is very clear and Allah commands us to ponder the "Foundation" (root, constitution, infrastructure, the objective, targets) for finding the straight path to peaceful living. . . here and life after death.

            It is He who has sent down to you, the Book

            in it are verses precise

            they are the FOUNDATION of the Book

            (3.7)

            The verses that are entirely clear from the Quran is the foundation, "perfectly in detail" (very strong and solid Constitution) . . and the hadith, men-made laws, other religious texts and references are the "BRANCHES" (subsidiary laws, regulations and policies etc.) . . . and human beings cannot live by the "Foundation Alone"; e.g. country that only has the Constitution Alone, without any subsidiary laws, regulations and policies. Chaos !

            To each of you We prescribed a law and a method
            Had Allah willed
            He would have made you one nation

            but to test you
            in what He has given you
            so race to good
            To Allah is your return all together
            and He will inform you concerning that over which you used to differ
            (5.4

            The actual religion is Laws, Government, Businesses, Agriculture, Economical, Political, International Relations etc . .

            Where it is accepted by all human beings and benefiting humanity

            It is the Deen (way of life) and it is in these areas Muslim must bring balance and justice

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            • D Offline
              D Offline
              diamantinehoneybunch
              wrote on last edited by
              #86

              Deen is just an Arabic word for religion.

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              • M Offline
                M Offline
                muslims
                wrote on last edited by
                #87

                But being "Quranist" doesn't mean you believe guidance cannot be found outside the quran. Person A may find guidance in source X, while person B finds it in source Y. A source need not be institutionalized (like holy scriptures) in order to be a source of guidance.

                Votes by the Quraniyoon on this website

                http//free-minds.org/what-your-view-hadith-sunnah

                http//i41.tinypic.com/107j7sm.gif

                http//free-minds.org/monotheist-charter

                http//www.progressivemuslims.org/organization.htm

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                • D Offline
                  D Offline
                  diamantinehoneybunch
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #88

                  Votes by the Quraniyoon on this website

                  http//free-minds.org/what-your-view-hadith-sunnah

                  http//i41.tinypic.com/107j7sm.gif

                  http//free-minds.org/monotheist-charter

                  http//www.progressivemuslims.org/organization.htm

                  They reject them as sources of Faith.

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                  • M Offline
                    M Offline
                    muslims
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #89

                    It said "I reject them 100% because the Quran says it is detailed and all we need"

                    The Quran is detailed in its foundation (root) , and it does not mean all areas of human activities

                    and . . which can easily be proven

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                    • Z Offline
                      Z Offline
                      Zulf
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #90

                      I don't believe in religious authority . . . because Allah never talks about religions

                      Allah doesn't need religion because all human beings are submitting to him, willingly or unwillingly (483)

                      Allah doesn't need religion because it is unfair, it is faulty generalization and abuse the concept of justice

                      In fact, Ibrahim has no religion, so as Muhammad . . . (367-6

                      otherwise Muhammad would become a Christian or Jews since both scriptures are from Allah.

                      How could Muhammad rejects Allah Books and Religions?

                      Therefore in reality, it is human who need religion to divide the society and be in power, to manipulate and make money from the masses

                      Allah doesn't need for human beings to have religion

                      Based on this understanding . . . we are human beings and what matter to human beings is just or unjust

                      (so as everything .. in pairs, day and night, men and women, good and evil, etc . . . just and unjust , there is no just group A, just group B, just group C)

                      and it is common (unity) in all religions and living creatures . . no matter what they are , just or unjust . . good or evil

                      Therefore . . every texts and references can be the the authority, laws or determining our way of life (refer here)

                      PROVIDED ALWAYS, it is based on the foundation in the Quran . . . ie. the ROOTS of a tree of life

                      It is totally based on the elements of balance and justice

                      and the Quran is the foundation (roots)

                      To each of you We prescribed a law and a method
                      Had Allah willed
                      He would have made you one nation

                      but to test you
                      in what He has given you
                      so race to good
                      To Allah is your return all together
                      and He will inform you concerning that over which you used to differ
                      (5.4

                      I agree very much with this. It happens to be my point of view as well!
                      I often generalize and say that the closer you go to religion, the farther away from God you get.

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                      • M Offline
                        M Offline
                        muslims
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #91

                        Religious people are scary and we don't need to be "Muslim" . . we just need to be a "human being", as we used to be during our childhood.

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                        • Z Offline
                          Z Offline
                          Zulf
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #92

                          Votes by the Quraniyoon on this website

                          http//free-minds.org/what-your-view-hadith-sunnah

                          http//i41.tinypic.com/107j7sm.gif

                          Thanks for the reference.

                          I find the options given in the poll vague and inexact.

                          "I see them as an integral part of Islam which cannot be rejected."
                          This one is quite clear I think.

                          "I accept them in general, but don't practice all that they say."
                          I wonder how one can accept something and then not practice it... unless of course you are aware of what it is that is preventing you from practising it.

                          "I reject some and accept the ones that make sense."
                          This one is in practice very much like the previous one.

                          "I reject them 100% because I question their authenticity."
                          Reject their truthfulness or their requirement to be followed as part of religion?

                          "I reject them 100% because the Quran says it is detailed and all we need."
                          This one is funny. What does "all we need" really mean? All we need for what? Don't people who choose this option also believe that we don't necessarily understand anything from the quran unless we are permitted by God, being sincere and pure enough? I think this option is a bit extreme, the way it is formulated, considering that the quran is just a collection of words in sentences, and that insight, understanding and wisdom is anything but a collection of words. It sounds almost like it is all about the quran, while in my opinion the quran is just a guiding tool. What we can gather from the quran has nothing to do with the quran itself, but rather with the condition of our own selves. That's my view at least.
                          But then again, the way these options are worded might not be optimal and each one could probably be understood in different ways. Personally I wouldn't choose any one of these options as I feel they cannot represent accurately how I perceive things.

                          Anyhow, I see what the poll says. What it really, really means though, is not necessarily equally clear.

                          Peace

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                          • Z Offline
                            Z Offline
                            Zulf
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #93

                            Religious people are scary and we don't need to be "Muslim" . . we just need to be a "human being", as we used to be during our childhood.

                            Absolutely agree on this!

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