Arrangement of the Quran
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Peace,
I agree with God, The Master is the best witness for me.
God bless you
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"No change should be in the creation of God". What is that translation.
No change in the decree and/or system or ways of God.
edit sorry I meant that there is no change to God's plans and that is the way of God.
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The arrangement is clearly man-made and Free Mind is following it freely.
Of course it's man made, and so does the writings.. it's man's writing..
Name me one book which isnt arranged chronologically and yet it is crystal clear in its meaning and context?
Lords of the Ring Trilogy (Parallel Plot)
Star Wars Series (Prequel)
Dictionary (No one knows which word being invented first)
Encyclopedia
Google Search Result -
Peace,
The chronological order has not meant a thing for me and Bender says the same. What difference does it make if you put forth solid arguments?
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The chronological order has not meant a thing for me and Bender says the same.
Circular reasoning.
What difference does it make if you put forth solid arguments?
The Quran does not merely teaches us "right" or "wrong" , but the Quran teaches us "balance".
You cannot kill, you can kill, you cannot eat, you can eat, you cannot marry more than one, you can marry more than one. .
This is "balance". . . it is not merely about "right" or "wrong".
and this is why Allah does not send a Book perfectly compiled to the Last Prophet.
It is the "ways of God" to teach us "balance". . . it is the syllabus for mankind to be on the straight path.
. . .
Now. . . please compare when you first read the Quran, from first chapter to the other. . . what do you feel about it ? Boring ?
The majority feels the same way. . and they have abandoned the Quran.
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Creation + Deen = Quran.
Are you out of your mind? Quran is just a word for recitation.
There is a decree/command and judgment of God to uphold in this temporary illusion. It is a test. And you fail it with your attitude it seems as God decreed kindness and humbleness and modesty among other things. Have you sworn to uphold only part of the decree?
There is a lot of conjecture with no basis in your confusing "lectures" with no relevance to the recitation of God. And then be arrogant and say that others are astray.
I think that, if we return to the topic, that we have put forth arguments about it and it does not matter in which order you put the chapters because the context each sentence is in is sufficient for correct comprehension. Its original chronological order could as well be as it already is.
Peace
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No it is not circular reason but we have already delivered a our final stance. That accusation is just an arrogant way of finding a way against others.
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Creation + Deen = Quran.
Are you out of your mind? Quran is just a word for recitation.
No. . the word "creation" is referring to the "Deen", and the "Deen" is referring to the Quran, including its chronological order of the Chapters. It is ways of God to reveal the message to mankind.
and this is further confirmed by the next verses.
So direct your face toward the deen, inclining to truth.
the fitrah of Allah upon which He has created people.
No change should there be in the creation of Allah .
That is the correct deen, but most of the people do not know.
, turning in repentance to Him,
and fear Him and establish prayer
and do not be of those who associate others with Allah
of those who have divided their deen and become sects,
every faction rejoicing in what it has.
3030-32It is so clear, it is about the Deen of Allah in the Quran.
. . .
it does not matter in which order you put the chapters because the context each sentence is in is sufficient for correct comprehension.
Circular reasoning.
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Peace,
No, not that we are right. And please stop your childish construction of your post.
We have put forth our arguments and do not care to deem them right or not. And God is enough as a witness and will judge between us at then end of days.
You saw what we thought and we have settled there. No circular reasoning but we stopped some posts ago.
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You mean the argument of "blind faith" and "superstitious" ?
and please don't divert this issue from "rational thinking" to "irrational thinking", such as God teaches us. . .
or such statement like "let God give light upon it for you through inspiration."
This statement is "bulls*it", since "no one knows" whether God guide us or lead us astray,
and thus. . . please discuss from the aspect of what a human being can understand.
Because I cannot find any other argument than the following contention, or one which similar contention.
And should I base my faith on some order of revelation just randomly. I could do so as it does not change anything regardless.
Al-hikmah you get by melding with God and seek close proximity and guidance. And by following the decree which was commanded to be followed. The knowledge of to judge fairly and in accordance to the decree is your al-hikmah. It should be the basis of your behavior, your judgment.
Then repeat it all the way to the end.
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The Deen refers to the ways to live and to uphold what those righteous people in the past covenanted with God, ie to follow the decree and judgement by The Master's "standards".
Any interpretation beyond that is merely conjecture. And the decree is easily recognized no matter which order you put the recited chapters.
There is nothing magical with the words. They are just from the ancient Arabic tongue the recitation was revealed in.
And if you allow me to put it very brief I can tell that the decree is about doing good, being good and have faith in the one who sent you here. And if you do good (as per your own description "rational thinking" then you uphold the decreed parameters and judge with it then you are guided.
Peace
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"Blind" is in the eye of the beholder. Do you tell me not to believe in God because then I would be superstitious?
What is the superstition that I believe? That God is in perfect control of everything and can send a sign at any time no matter what era it is? Do you have any faith?
Please if you come with an ad hominem you have to provide valid arguments for that, at least.
If it is a correct argument then I can repeat it as many times as I like, but I may become tired.
Peace
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Yes, but you need evidence that suggests that they have been changed in the first place.
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The chronological order of the verses is the "ways of God", but people have changed it and make the Book hard to understand for many people.
Your so-called 'chronological order' has no basis in the Quran. You are simply following man-made ahadith and ascribing it to God without any warrant. Before you prove your chronological order, you first have to provide proof of authority and authenticity of your ahadith, which were compiled approximately 200 years after the death of the prophet. While the Quran testifies that its arrangement has been arranged when the prophet was still alive, do you ask us to take your ahadith over Quran's own testimony?
Have you not read these verses below?
2532
And those who disbelieve say Why is the Quran not revealed to him all at once? (It is revealed) thus that We may strengthen thy heart there with; and We have arranged it in right order (Arabic Ratalnahu tartila)734
...and arrange (Arabic Wa-rattili) the Quran in its arrangement (Arabic Tartilan)The words 'rattilli' and 'tartilan' are formed of the same root word RA-TA-LAM, which means to put something in order, to make even or well arranged/set together, to make correct or to put in the right state of arrangement.
Therefore, it is absolutely clear from the Quran's own testimony that it had been arranged in its order before the demise of the prophet.
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What is the superstition that I believe?
That the God is guiding you. . and without any reasoning or logical explanation. .
The argument which rest absolutely on blind faith, which rest absolutely on "irrational thinking"Whereas Allah said
We will progressively lead them
from where they do not know
7.182Therefore, it is your burden of proof to prove that you know what Allah said people do not know. . .
. . .
For me, no one know whether God is guiding or leading someone to astray
Thus, the statement is bulls*it, for example
"let God give light upon it for you through inspiration"
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Your so-called 'chronological order' has no basis in the Quran. You are simply following man-made ahadith and ascribing it to God without any warrant. Before you prove your chronological order, you first have to provide proof of authority and authenticity of your ahadith, which were compiled approximately 200 years after the death of the prophet. While the Quran testifies that its arrangement has been arranged when the prophet was still alive, do you ask us to take your ahadith over Quran's own testimony?
That is not the issue since I does not say that the order was correct or perfect, I said "people could start to compare" and it could be any other order.
People could start to compare the chronological order of the verses and the chronological facts from the Quran
http//wikiislam.net/wiki/Chronological_Order_of_the_Qur'an
However, that is not the real issue. . .
The real issue is why following the man made order of the verses when God sent the revelations chronologically ?
. . .
My argument is that it is obvious that the current order is not the original order of the Chapters in the Quran.
Therefore, why people are following that order ?
Do you have any authority to arrange it that way ?
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Peace,
You doubt about God's ability to guide. I asked where is your faith?
God has promised to provide guidance to whoever does good and has faith. You call me superstitious please go ahead but I have faith in my Master.
What burden of proof do you talk about. God has enough proof for you.
If you call that by that word then you have no faith and you shall see that you were wrong sooner or later.
Have you not studied the recitation enough? God "spoke" to Moses and he inspired revelation to Muhammad and made Jesus heal lepers and restore blindness by God's leave and then you doubt that God can provide guidance for anyone The Master wishes?
Have you even finished reading the recitation?