Arrangement of the Quran

muslims

And if you have quit the discussion well say no more then. Either that or stop your ad hominem.

See? another nonsense or lack of common sense. . .

You gave me the option either

say no more (about the discussion),

OR

stop the ad hominem

Which means . . I have to choose either one from the above.

Therefore, you allow me to continue with the ad hominem if I say no more about the discussion. laugh

Man_of_Faith

Either cease discussion or discuss without ad hominem was what I meant. It is nothing nonsensical about that. You know the topic of discussion here.

Peace

muslims

and you confused about the ad hominem. . because ad hominem is about attacking the person presenting the claim or argument, his character and which is irrelevant to the discussion . . . not about attacking the "contention made by the author". It is not the same, it is different issues.

What did I point out in this thread ?

I contested and point out the flaw in your contention, therefore . . it is not ad hominem.

I have no doubt about God's ability to guide people. . .

But I doubt about the nonsense people make when claiming that God is guiding them
as if they are the God's representative. . .
to claim absolute truth without any needs to support their contention with logical explanations, like those Mullah

. . .

How could people know that God is . .

guiding them, or
lead them astray

Can anyone prove this ?

We will progressively lead them
from where they do not know
7.182

Therefore, this is absolutely nonsense. . and just like what people of Pharoah are doing, ie. using the "irrational thinking"

. . .

and when people asked them to prove that God is "guiding" them . . .
They started to question about "I asked where is your faith?";
ie. to divert the issue, using ad hominem and hiding from their nonsense, and again, just like the followers of Pharoah are doing. . .

This is bulls*it. . .it is nonsense. . . no one knows whether God is guiding them, or lead them astray. .
Therefore, those who make such claims are speaking nonsense, or in worst cases, they are the Deceivers.

and. . .

Therefore, I believe you are talking nonsense and I said. .

and it is not my contention that is against the believe of all Muslims and those who compiled the Quran, it is your belief. . it is your contention, and the burden of proof is on you, or Bender or anyone else who wish people to believe that the current order is the original order of its revelations (refer here).

I'm not going to waste my time on your nonsense, and just send me a private message when you have successfully proven those facts to the world.

Both of my contentions is not about you. . it is about the validity of your contentions, it is about "your claims" and "such claims"

I said your contentions are nonsense; "talking nonsense". . Different issues, and it is not ad hominem.

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

. . .

and. . . compare with your contention, did you raise an issue relating to the "facts of our discussion or the contentions made" or you are raising "issue relating to the character of the person presenting the claim" ?

You doubt about God's ability to guide. I asked where is your faith?

God has promised to provide guidance to whoever does good and has faith. You call me superstitious please go ahead but I have faith in my Master.

What burden of proof do you talk about. God has enough proof for you.

If you call that by that word then you have no faith and you shall see that you were wrong sooner or later.

Have you not studied the recitation enough? God "spoke" to Moses and he inspired revelation to Muhammad and made Jesus heal lepers and restore blindness by God's leave and then you doubt that God can provide guidance for anyone The Master wishes?

Have you even finished reading the recitation?

See? You are not raising an issue about my contention, but raising an issue or making speculations about my faith and character etc, and which is irrelevant to the facts of our discussion, and as if you alone have faith in Allah, and those who are disagreeing with your opinion have no faith in Allah. You divert from the real issue and attack on the irrelevant issues, and then claim to absoluteness.

Man_of_Faith

Muslims,

Please get back to the topic instead spending row after row of nonsense. You have not presented anything that helps the discussion but only said what I am or not am. Either quit messing around or present anything new.

Peace

muslims

All Muslims and the non Muslims have unanimously acknowledged the order in the Quran is NOT its original order of the revelations, Therefore, I don't have to prove anything unless and until it is proven otherwise. Which is . . . it is your burden of proof to make a counterargument and contest their evidence. Only then the other party has to make a rebuttal argument to contests what you have presented as evidence.

Therefore, why should I prove on your behalf ? rotfl

. . .

So according to you Allah reveals the Chapter according to the following order.

. . .

Firstly, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Fatihah to the last Prophet, and as the 1 revelation Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Baqarah to the last Prophet, and as the 2 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter 'Ali Imran to the last Prophet, and as the 3 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter An-Nisa' to the last Prophet, and as the 4 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Ma'idah to the last Prophet, and as the 5 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-'Anam to the last Prophet, and as the 6 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-'Araf to the last Prophet, and as the 7 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-'Anfal to the last Prophet, and as the 8 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter At-Tawbah to the last Prophet, and as the 9 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter Yunus to the last Prophet, and as the 10 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter Hud to the last Prophet, and as the 11 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter Yusuf to the last Prophet, and as the 12 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter Ar-Rad to the last Prophet, and as the 13 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter 'Ibrahim to the last Prophet, and as the 14 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Hijr to the last Prophet, and as the 15 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter An-Nahl to the last Prophet, and as the 16 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-'Isra' to the last Prophet, and as the 17 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Kahf to the last Prophet, and as the 18 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Maryam to the last Prophet, and as the 19 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Taha to the last Prophet, and as the 20 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-'Anbya' to the last Prophet, and as the 21 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Haj to the last Prophet, and as the 22 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Mu'minun to the last Prophet, and as the 23 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter An-Nur to the last Prophet, and as the 24 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Furqan to the last Prophet, and as the 25 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Ash-Shuara' to the last Prophet, and as the 26 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter An-Naml to the last Prophet, and as the 27 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Qasas to the last Prophet, and as the 28 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Ankabut to the last Prophet, and as the 29 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Ar-Rum to the last Prophet, and as the 30 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Luqman to the last Prophet, and as the 31 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter As-Sajdah to the last Prophet, and as the 32 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-'Ahzab to the last Prophet, and as the 33 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Saba' to the last Prophet, and as the 34 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Fatir to the last Prophet, and as the 35 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Ya-Sin to the last Prophet, and as the 36 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter As-Saffat to the last Prophet, and as the 37 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Sad to the last Prophet, and as the 38 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Az-Zumar to the last Prophet, and as the 39 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Ghafir to the last Prophet, and as the 40 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Fussilat to the last Prophet, and as the 41 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Ash-Shuraa to the last Prophet, and as the 42 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Az-Zukhruf to the last Prophet, and as the 43 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Ad-Dukhan to the last Prophet, and as the 44 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Jathiyah to the last Prophet, and as the 45 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-'Ahqaf to the last Prophet, and as the 46 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Muhammad to the last Prophet, and as the 47 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Fath to the last Prophet, and as the 48 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Hujurat to the last Prophet, and as the 49 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Qaf to the last Prophet, and as the 50 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Adh-Dhariyat to the last Prophet, and as the 51 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter At-Tur to the last Prophet, and as the 52 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter An-Najm to the last Prophet, and as the 53 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Qamar to the last Prophet, and as the 54 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Ar-Rahman to the last Prophet, and as the 55 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Waqiah to the last Prophet, and as the 56 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Hadid to the last Prophet, and as the 57 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Mujadila to the last Prophet, and as the 58 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Hashr to the last Prophet, and as the 59 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Mumtahanah to the last Prophet, and as the 60 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter As-Saf to the last Prophet, and as the 61 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Jumuah to the last Prophet, and as the 62 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Munafiqun to the last Prophet, and as the 63 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter At-Taghabun to the last Prophet, and as the 64 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter At-Talaq to the last Prophet, and as the 65 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter At-Tahrim to the last Prophet, and as the 66 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Mulk to the last Prophet, and as the 67 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Qalam to the last Prophet, and as the 68 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Haqqah to the last Prophet, and as the 69 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Maarij to the last Prophet, and as the 70 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter Nuh to the last Prophet, and as the 71 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Jinn to the last Prophet, and as the 72 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Muzzammil to the last Prophet, and as the 73 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Muddaththir to the last Prophet, and as the 74 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Qiyamah to the last Prophet, and as the 75 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-'Insan to the last Prophet, and as the 76 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Mursalat to the last Prophet, and as the 77 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter An-Naba' to the last Prophet, and as the 78 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter An-Naziat to the last Prophet, and as the 79 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Abasa to the last Prophet, and as the 80 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter At-Takwir to the last Prophet, and as the 81 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-'Infitar to the last Prophet, and as the 82 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Mutaffifin to the last Prophet, and as the 83 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-'Inshiqaq to the last Prophet, and as the 84 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Buruj to the last Prophet, and as the 85 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter At-Tariq to the last Prophet, and as the 86 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-'Ala to the last Prophet, and as the 87 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Ghashiyah to the last Prophet, and as the 88 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Fajr to the last Prophet, and as the 89 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Balad to the last Prophet, and as the 90 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Ash-Shams to the last Prophet, and as the 91 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Layl to the last Prophet, and as the 92 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Ad-Duhaa to the last Prophet, and as the 93 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Ash-Sharh to the last Prophet, and as the 94 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter At-Tin to the last Prophet, and as the 95 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Alaq to the last Prophet, and as the 96 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Qadr to the last Prophet, and as the 97 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Bayyinah to the last Prophet, and as the 98 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter Az-Zalzalah to the last Prophet, and as the 99 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Adiyat to the last Prophet, and as the 100 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Qariah to the last Prophet, and as the 101 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter At-Takathur to the last Prophet, and as the 102 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others? Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Asr to the last Prophet, and as the 103 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Humazah to the last Prophet, and as the 104 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Fil to the last Prophet, and as the 105 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Quraysh to the last Prophet, and as the 106 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Ma`un to the last Prophet, and as the 107 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Kawthar to the last Prophet, and as the 108 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Kafirun to the last Prophet, and as the 109 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter An-Nasr to the last Prophet, and as the 110 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Masad to the last Prophet, and as the 111 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-'Ikhlas to the last Prophet, and as the 112 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Falaq to the last Prophet, and as the 113 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Finally, Allah reveal Chapter An-Nas to the last Prophet, and as the 114 revelations Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?

. . .

May I ask what is your basis to arrive at the above conclusion?

What proof can you offer ? Reference ? Book ? History ? Anything to start with the discussion?

Or it is simply out of your nonsense ? laugh

Man_of_Faith

Peace,

You already have my previous argument about that.

But I went to the next question and that was how the wrong order does affect the literal quality?

And just because it is not the chronological order then perhaps God wanted it that way. Scribbler gave some good argument with reference from the recitation.

muslims

No. . . nothing, and show me.

May I ask what is your basis to arrive at the above conclusion?

What proof can you offer ? Reference ? Book ? History ? Anything to start with the discussion?

Or it is simply out of your nonsense ? laugh

Man_of_Faith

Peace,

Ok. Then I use Scribbler's argument. How about the next question on the author's topic? Can you bring any evidence that suggest the literal quality is affected?

muslims

My question

This is my contention . . .

It is the facts which have been acknowledged by all Muslims.

This is my burden of proof.

ie. the Chapters is not the original order of its revelations , and everyone agree on this. . .

. . .

Therefore, do you agree on this ?

. . .

Your answer

You are wrong. It is not acknowledged by all "muslims". I do not acknowledge it. Bender does not. Are you going to base your argument on what others say. And have you not read the verse that days if you listen to most people they will lead you ininto conjecture. Form your own arguments and not that "the majority says". You talk yourself how lost all are so why do you believe them on that. That theory is based on had it sayings.

So. . you did not agree with the majority that the Chapters is NOT the original order of its revelations.

. . .

AND I ask on what basis. . .

May I ask what is your basis to arrive at the above conclusion?

What proof can you offer ? Reference ? Book ? History ? Anything to start with the discussion?

Or it is simply out of your nonsense ? laugh

. . .

and this is your answer and issue . . . rotfl

You already have my previous argument about that.

But I went to the next question and that was how the wrong order does affect the literal quality?

Huh ? We are discussing about the order of the Chapters in the Quran; about the "Arrangement of the Quran". . . and suddenly you divert to other irrelevant issues ? About the literal quality ?

What is wrong with you ? laugh

Please get back to the topic instead spending row after row of nonsense.

Man_of_Faith

Peace,

If you read the original post of the thread you can see that he is asking what kind of difference it makes.

mmkhan

Salaam,

I am surprised to see such a bold claim or I should say a white lie &

This is my contention . . .

ie. the Chapters is not the original order of its revelations , and everyone agree on this. . .

Therefore, do you agree on this ?

Red I don't see even a single person agrees to this claim of yours.

I have presented the proof that the Chapters are not in its original order, and it is not the ways of God for that revelation to be in that order.

It is the facts which have been acknowledged by all Muslims.

This is my burden of proof.

Red Really? hmm Where? confused I am reading this thread from the first post and I did not find any proof from you yet nope

Seriously bro, I have a question for you. Are you retired and passing your free time here or ....... ? Please don't mind, I am just curious after going through your many many posts.

May Allah protect us pr
mmKhan

muslims

If you read the original post of the thread you can see that he is asking what kind of difference it makes.

No. . I don't belong to any sect and I only answer the issue of this thread, regardless of his background as Shia etc.

Does the current arrangement promotes better understanding?

muslims

I am surprised to see such a bold claim or I should say a white lie &

Do you expect the contention is specifically referring to the common people or scholars and experts ?

and see ? How quick you suggesting people are lying , and yet claimed God is guiding you. . nonsense.

. . .

Red Really? hmm Where? confused I am reading this thread from the first post and I did not find any proof from you yet nope

Read again. . .

All Muslims and the non Muslims have unanimously acknowledged the order in the Quran is NOT its original order of the revelations, Therefore, I don't have to prove anything unless and until it is proven otherwise. Which is . . . it is your burden of proof to make a counterargument and contest their evidence. Only then the other party has to make a rebuttal argument to contests what you have presented as evidence.

. . .

Seriously bro, I have a question for you. Are you retired and passing your free time here or ....... ? Please don't mind, I am just curious after going through your many many posts.

What does this got to do with the issue of this thread ?

Man_of_Faith

Peace,

The issue IS if it makes any difference. Not about any sect belonging. That is the question here.

muslims

Issue chronological order + arrangement + promotes + better understanding

Chronological order = The ways of God to reveal the chapters to the last Prophet, for better understanding of the rules in the Quran.

So I say . . .

No change should there be in the creation of Allah
That is the correct Deen,
but most of the people do not know
30.30

the word "creation" is referring to the "Deen", and the "Deen" is referring to the Quran, including its chronological order of the Chapters. It is ways of God to reveal the message to mankind.

Man_of_Faith

Peace,

Okay. But do you have any example that justifies your claim that it improves understanding?

mmkhan

Do you expect the contention is specifically referring to the common people or scholars and experts ?

You said
This is my contention . . .

ie. the Chapters is not the original order of its revelations , and everyone agree on this. . .

Therefore, do you agree on this ?

And you are very good at changing the topic and twisting and playing with words. I was clearly referring to your claim which is bold in red above.

and see ? How quick you suggest people of "white lie", and yet claimed God is guiding you. . nonsense.

Did I claimed so? Where? Show me! This another white lie.

Read again. . .

What does this got to do with the issue of this thread ?

It has nothing to do with the issue and I clearly said that I am just curious. Is there anything to hide to answer it? hmm

Because I found your posts are like
Meat + rice + spices = Biryani

Biryani means hunger. When you feel hungry don't you like to eat a good dish i.e., Biryani.

This is my burden of proof ;D

May Allah protect us pr
mmKhan

muslims

And you are very good at changing the topic and twisting and playing with words. I was clearly referring to your claim which is bold in red above.

another blind accusation from those who claimed God is guiding them. . . . and who knows, maybe it is "clarity"

by the way . . what is common people have to do with deciding the order of the Chapters in the Quran ?

Have they did this before ? Can you provide the proof ?

. . .

Did I claimed so? Where? Show me! This another white lie.

another accusation . . .and for example. . .

I will write here whatever I was taught by Allah about doing tawakkal on Allah or else be a mushrik, with the permission of my Lord, Allah alone.

Take note, "mushrik" or "non-mushrik" is about "obedience" to the commands in the Quran, ie. referring to "action" (refer here),
not about "faith", ie. tawakkal, reliance , "iman" . . .

I think you're confused because your comparison between "mushrik" (action) and "tawakkal" (faith) was already irrelevant. .

Therefore . . the claimed about being taught by Allah is nonsense.

. . .

It has nothing to do with the issue and I clearly said that I am just curious. Is there anything to hide to answer it? hmm

Because I found your posts are like
Meat + rice + spices = Biryani

Biryani means hunger. When you feel hungry don't you like to eat a good dish i.e., Biryani.

This is my burden of proof ;D

That's how it is always be since the beginning. . . .

Argumentum Ad Hominem

The fallacy consists in an attempt to refute someone by making disparaging remarks about him rather than by responding to his argument. In other words, not the argument but the man (L. homo, "man&quot behind the argument is attacked. The nobles of the people of Noah rejected him and criticized his followers on the following grounds

"We see that you are just a human being like us. We see that only those people have followed you who are quite obviously the lowliest among us. And we see the you are in no way superior to us. In fact, we suspect that you are liars." (1127)

In other words Noah'a message must be rejected because his followers happen to be such - and - such people (see also 2611). 2136 says that the Quraysh start making fun of Muhammad the moment they catch sight of him, and pay no attention to his message. For other examples of this fallacy, see 2347 (Pharaoh and courtiers/Moses and Aaron), 2627 (Pharaoh/Moses), 26153-154 (Thamud/Prophet Salih), 26185 (Madyanites/Shu`aib), 4352 (Pharaoh/Moses).

Pharaoh had some very dirty tactics to get what he wanted, or keep people from turning against him. One of these tricks was to corrupt the natural criteria for rational thought.

A person?s rational criteria (method of judgment) is the very basis upon which he knows truth from falsehood. And the rational criteria for truth is that the subject at hand must fully conform to reality (i.e. must be proven through the sensed reality via our five senses).

Now, when we look at verses from the Qur?an, we can see the followers of Pharaoh attempt to change the criteria of rational thinking to that of irrational thinking

?So when Moses (pbuh) came to them with our clear signs, they said ?this is nothing but fake magic, and we did not hear of this from our forefathers? ? .

What do their forefathers sayings have to do with Moses (pbuh) being a Prophet? What kind of rational thought is this? According to this logic, this would mean whatever does not come via their forefathers is not truth. This is despite that reality and truth are not proven through forefathers, or parents, or an imam, or some organization, rather it is proven by the sensed reality and rational proof.

muslims

Okay. But do you have any example that justifies your claim that it improves understanding?

I said. . .

The ways of God to reveal the chapters

AND where is your proof ? (main issue)

Man_of_Faith

Peace,

And I am not debating that right now. I was asking a sincere question about what kind of difference it makes if the chapters are not in a chronological order.

And I said hypothetically if you were right, I did not agree, but let us say you were right then what kind of negative effect does it have and why? And answer that and stop diverting from the discussion at hand. The creator of the thread wished to know what kind of difference it makes if any, and I want to hear and evaluate your arguments if any.