Arrangement of the Quran
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And instead of insulting me for my faith in God you can please present your arguments supporting that the order of revealed chapters have been changed.
Peace
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You doubt about God's ability to guide. I asked where is your faith?
I have no doubt about God's ability to guide people. . .
But I doubt about the nonsense people make when claiming that God is guiding them
as if they are the God's representative. . .
to claim absolute truth without any needs to support their contention with logical explanations, like those Mullah. . .
How could people know that God is . .
- guiding them, or
- lead them astray
Can anyone prove this ?
We will progressively lead them
from where they do not know
7.182Therefore, this is absolutely nonsense. . and just like what people of Pharoah are doing, ie. using the "irrational thinking"
. . .
and when people asked them to prove that God is "guiding" them . . .
They started to question about "I asked where is your faith?";
ie. to divert the issue, using ad hominem and hiding from their nonsense, and again, just like the followers of Pharoah are doing. . .This is bulls*it. . .it is nonsense. . . no one knows whether God is guiding them, or lead them astray. .
Therefore, those who make such claims are speaking nonsense, or in worst cases, they are the Deceivers. -
And instead of insulting me for my faith in God you can please present your arguments supporting that the order of revealed chapters have been changed.
I have presented the proof that the Chapters are not in its original order, and it is not the ways of God for that revelation to be in that order.
It is the facts which have been acknowledged by all Muslims.
This is my burden of proof.
. . .
Where is your evidence that it is the original order of the Chapters ?
If you cannot prove this. . . where is the authority (verse) to support your contention that people can change the order of the revelations ?
If you cannot prove this. . . then there is no point for you to divert the issue, or even claiming that God is guiding you etc.
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Burden of proof can be your invention. I am asking you to bring any word that the recitation you are reading contains evidence to support your claim. Or otherwise there is noting to discuss here.
And if it would be the case that it is not the original order. What would make it cause any difference to how you become guided by the information?
Peace
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And if you cannot have any valid arguments that it has become changed then I suppose you have to back down. It can just be a theory however because you and me were not there when it was revealed. Unless God would tell any of us the truth of course.
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He sent down water from the sky
so valleys flowed according to their capacity
and the flood produces foam
And from what they burn to smelt jewelry or goods is produced a similar foamIt is in such a manor that God strikes the falsehood with the truth
As for the foam, it passes away
and as for what benefits the people
it remains in the EarthIt is such that God puts forth the examples
13.17It is just foam, and could easily passes away , one by one . . .
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Yes but can you formulate yourself and define your argument instead of pasting a verse with no relevance to the discussion at hand?
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You have lots of confusion , I wonder why. . .
especially after God is directly guiding you , maybe the god you are referring is making many silly mistake . . . laugh
. . .
This is my contention . . .
It is the facts which have been acknowledged by all Muslims.
This is my burden of proof.
ie. the Chapters is not the original order of its revelations , and everyone agree on this. . .
. . .
Therefore, do you agree on this ?
. . .
If you agree on this . . . then there is no issue, and you have to provide me the authority to change the chronological order of the Chapters.
. . .
If you do not agree with these facts. . this means you are contesting the believe of all Muslims that the Quran is not in chronological order.
Therefore, why should I prove on your behalf ? rotfl
It is not my contention, but it is your contention.
Therefore, it is your burden of proof to show that the current order is the original order of its revelations
The burden of proof as to any particular fact lies on that person who wishes people to believe in his conclusion
end.
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You are wrong. It is not acknowledged by all "muslims". I do not acknowledge it. Bender does not. Are you going to base your argument on what others say. And have you not read the verse that days if you listen to most people they will lead you ininto conjecture. Form your own arguments and not that "the majority says". You talk yourself how lost all are so why do you believe them on that. That theory is based on had it sayings.
And the burden of proof argument is one of your fellow humans who invented. I just ask you and I have said my arguments. What do you dispute?
You need to give a valid reason why it is not in chronological order, ie. examples and elaboration. The literal quality becomes bad and why it becomes bad etc. The is investigation and not conjecture.
Peace
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Peace,
And are you mocking God? That is against the forum rules you know.
God bless you
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You are wrong. It is not acknowledged by all "muslims". I do not acknowledge it. Bender does not. Are you going to base your argument on what others say. And have you not read the verse that days if you listen to most people they will lead you ininto conjecture. Form your own arguments and not that "the majority says". You talk yourself how lost all are so why do you believe them on that. That theory is based on had it sayings.
Therefore, I believe you are talking nonsense and I said. .
It is just foam, and could easily passes away , one by one . . .
and it is not my contention that is against the believe of all Muslims and those who compiled the Quran, it is your belief. . it is your contention, and the burden of proof is on you, or Bender or anyone else who wish people to believe that the current order is the original order of its revelations (refer here).
I'm not going to waste my time on your nonsense, and just send me a private message when you have successfully proven those facts to the world.
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And are you mocking God? That is against the forum rules you know.
How should I know, you are the one who is claiming God is directly guiding you without any logical explanations. . .
as if you are God's representative etc. . . laugh
maybe the god you are referring is making many silly mistake . . . laugh
Please prove that God is guiding you! (refer here)
If you cannot prove, then . . . who is the one mocking God with his nonsense ?
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Return to topic and stop screwing around.
Peace
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Peace,
564 And the Jews said ?The hand of God is tied-down!? Their hands will be tied-down, and they will be cursed for what they have said. No, His hands are wide open spending as He wills. And for many of them, what has been sent down to you will increase them in rebellion and opposition; and We have cast between them animosity and hatred until the Day of Resurrection. Every time they ignite the fire of war, God puts it out; and they seek to make corruption in the land; and God does not love the corrupters.
5111 ?And I inspired the disciples ?You shall believe in Me and My messenger;? they said ?We have faith, and bear witness that we have humbled ourselves.??
7117 And We inspired Moses ?Cast down your staff;? and it swallowed what they invented.
7160 And We separated them into twelve patriarch nations; and We inspired Moses when his people wanted to drink ?Put forth your staff towards the stone,? thus twelve springs emerged out of it. Each people then knew from where to drink. And We shaded them with clouds and We sent down to them manna and quail ?Eat from the good things that We have provided for you.? They did not wrong Us, but it was their souls that they wronged.
10109 And follow what is being inspired to you and be patient until God judges. And He is the best of judges.
1136 And it was inspired to Noah ?No more of your people will believe except those who have already believed. So do not be saddened by what they have done.?
1413 And those who opposed said to their messengers ?We will expel you from our land, or you will return to our creed.? It was then that their Master inspired to them ?We will destroy the wicked.?
287 And We inspired to Moses? mother ?Suckle him, and when you become fearful for him, then cast him off in the sea, and do not fear nor grieve. We will return him to you and We will make him of the messengers.?
3450 Say ?If I stray, then I stray to my own loss. And if I am guided, then it is because of what my Lord inspired to me. He is Hearer, Near.?
4251 And it is not for any human being that God would speak to him, except through inspiration, or from behind a barrier, or by sending a messenger to inspire whom He wills with His permission. He is Most High, Wise.
2157 For those there will be contacts from their Lord and a mercy, they are the guided ones.
2272 You are not responsible for their guidance, but it is God who will guide whoever He wishes. And whatever you spend out of goodness is for your own souls. And anything you spend should be in seeking the face of God. And whatever you spend out of goodness will be returned to you, and you will not be wronged.
4175 As for those who believe in God and hold fast to Him, He will admit them in a mercy from Him and a bounty, and He will guide them to Himself, a straight path.
680 And his people debated with him. He (Ebraheem) said ?Do you debate with me regarding God, when He has guided me? I do not fear that which you have set up except if my Master wills; my Lord encompasses all things in knowledge; will you not heed??
Note No scriptural decree yet revealed (torah/instruction, enjeel/enlightenment nor the recitation).
684 And We granted him Isaac and Jacob, both of whom We guided; and Noah We guided from before; and from his progeny is David, and Solomon, and Job, and Joseph, and Moses, and Aaron. It is such that We recompense the good doers.
688 Such is the guidance of God, He guides with it whom He pleases of His servants. And if they set up partners, then all that they had worked would fall away from them.
6125 Whoever God wishes to guide, He will comfort his chest with harmony; and whoever He wishes to misguide, He will make his chest tight and constricted, as one who is ascending towards the heaven. It is such that God lets taint those who do not have faith.
EDIT Sorry I had to add this verse 109 Those who believe and do good works, their Lord will guide them by their faith. Rivers will flow beneath them in gardens of bliss.
Who guides? Is it purely rational thinking involved or is there a close bond to your Creator if you have harmonized yourself with God and serve? Thus I asked if there is a lack in faith for someone who says that God cannot inspire a thing. It is as if to say God's hands are tied down. And that is mockery of God and also is in violation of the forum rules.
And sorry for answering a post off-topic. Please return to the topic at hand. And please refrain from ad hominem here and now.
God bless you
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So you believe you are a Messenger of Allah ? What have you did ? Wrote an article ? rotfl
p.s. take note that the verse is personally confirmed by God or came with proof etc, not by those who are arrogant and self-proclaimed that they are rightfully guided by Allah . . . we have a special name for that, ie. NONSENSE.
How could people know that God is . .
- guiding them, or
- lead them astray
Can anyone prove this ?
We will progressively lead them
from where they do not know
7.182Therefore, this is absolutely nonsense. .
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Peace,
I never claimed that. I demonstrated about inspiration and guidance if you did not see that. Please quit being offensive and discuss the topic at hand.
We were discussing about Quran arrangement and let us continue the discussion. We can test a hypothesis; what if you are right and it really was that people had changed the order of the chapters. What are your arguments for that it really matters at all?
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What discussion ? I have already ended my discussion with you in this thread since you are speaking nonsense, claiming what God said no one knows whether God are guiding them or lead them astray. . . and you are speaking nonsense that the Quran is in its original order of the revelations. . .
I'm not going to waste my time on your nonsense, and just send me a private message when you have successfully proven those facts to the world.
Nonsense = None or lack of common sense.
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It is not nonsense when you cannot prove it is nonsense Prove to me it is nonsense because you have no argument to prove about the order of revelation is same or not. There is no reliable material so you cannot say what I say is nonsense unless you have a valid argument.
And I was not talking about nonsense but was asking you a question on the discussion at hand and not for you to divert away from the discussion further. And if you have quit the discussion well say no more then. Either that or stop your ad hominem.
Peace