I am God
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The Quran says a hundred times not to take any 'ilah'. If you do, then you would be commiting shirk. But you are openly admitting that you have taken yourself as an 'ilah'. So are you not a mushrik?
The Quran guide us to find the truth from the minimum level, the highest level we can be. . .
The minimum level is obedience, becoming a Muslim, and one can be a Muslim even if he do not believe in Allah, "0" faith. . . (refer here)
The maximum level is not associating "Self" with "Allah", these are Believers and allies of Allah (refer here). . .
Do you disbelieve in Him <- Shirk? ie. "...I have greater..."
The problem is people only think that they are only two groups of people, you are either with us. . or you are not.
Either you are a Muslim, or you are a Mushrik or Kafir. . .
That is not true, there are three groups of people (refer here). . .
561 When the inevitable comes to pass.
562 Nothing can stop it from happening.
563 It will bring low, and raise up.
564 When the earth will be shaken a terrible shake.
565 And the mountains will be wiped out.
566 So that they become only scattered dust.567 And you will be in three groupings.
568 So those on the right, who will be from those on the right?
569 And those on the left, who will be from those on the left?
5610 And those foremost, who will be from those foremost?
5611 They will be the ones who are brought near.
5612 In gardens of bliss.
5613 Many from the first generations.
5614 And a few from the later generations (ie. after Muhammad)Can you describe or explain the third group ? The foremost ? Their practices ? Good people? Evil ?
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Then, act like one! Don't say one thing and do the other . . . it is hypocrisy.
Peace,
I think you are deeply confused. Sorry, I have made my point beyond clear, you can keep believing that you are god. Some of us who have debated with you though, will never dare take ourselves as a deity knowing our fragile nature and that we were created, once born, and one day will die. Who gives life and death? The Mighty Who created us at the first!
You cite the Pharaoh personality...the reason I did not read through is because it is an irony, you are the one the pharaoh would agree with in a sense, because he said and believed in a similar philosophy "I AM GOD" till the sea water drowned him.
"And Pharaoh said, "O eminent ones, I have not known you to have a god other than me. Then ignite for me, O Haman, upon the clay and make for me a tower that I may look at the God of Moses. And indeed, I do think he is among the liars."
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Do you agree on this ?
God is desire, God is dreams. . .
Have you seen the one who takes as his god his own desire?
Then would you be responsible for him?
25.43our desire is us. . we. . I. . . as GOD
Desire = I
Ego = ITherefore
I = GOD (I AM GOD)
and Allah says, "NO GOD"!
Allah has not made for a man two hearts in his interior. (33.4)
Two hearts. . . "I AM GOD" (1) + ALLAH (1)
No god (0)
only Allah (1)Choose one. . .
- Yes
- No
If not. . please give your reason.
rather than blindly accused all the bad things about me, and claiming all the good things about yourself, as if what ? Son of God ? Irrelevant!
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Hello everyone,
I think we should all leave this now cause it is completely futile to discuss this topic with him. Even after I game him clear and unequivocal proof directly from the Quran where Allah HIMSELF calls Him 'ilah / god', he refused to believe in it and still asked me to 'prove it'. Like how else can I prove you if you do not even accept the Quran's own testimony?
Just like many of you here, I also feel he lacks understanding of Quranic verses and has a huge problem in dealing with them. He thinks he is a god, all humans are gods and maybe all animals and objects are also gods for him. He says he accepts 'all' religions. Perhaps he also accepts Satanism and Luciferianism since these are also religions?
And brother muslims, I think you have tried enough by opening many threads every once in a while and also in many of your replies in other threads of this forum to propagate your new belief system where you are a god. But with respect, I think it is not really working for you. You may try to preach your beliefs somewhere else cause clearly as we have seen, no one on free-minds believes in you.
Best regards.
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If you read the above, you can see none is about facts or answer the issue addressed in this thread . .
It is merely the fallacy ad hominem, blindly accusing all the bad things about me. . and claiming all the good things about yourself
Just like what Pharoah did. . .
The Pharaoh Personality A parable for all times
Even after I game him clear and unequivocal proof directly from the Quran where Allah HIMSELF calls Him 'ilah / god', he refused to believe in it and still asked me to 'prove it'.
Read again. . you have not answered the issue I raised and now asserting your blank denial
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606632.msg352594#msg352594
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muslims,
And is it equivalent because YOU say so?
God with or without capital letter does not matter, it is the same entity, the same force in the galaxies.
And God is a word English-speaking people use as a equivalent for Allah. If I read the original Arabic discourse I find Allah and if I read a translation I find, for example, Gud in Swedish or God in English translations. But we refer to the same being. And we do not refer to a normal individual but an ethereal powerhouse and very mighty force in the universe.
I have already disproved your statements the first time I wrote to you in this thread. And I have repeated it more than once too.
And I was talking about you applying your brain while reading the passage to see what it says and not what you want it to say. Because you came up with a lot of nonsense then I had to tell you to also activate your brain.
I already told you how inconsistent your argument was based on the actual meaning of the passage you took out of context and extracted a weird conjecture around. I wrote twice the meaning of the passage in paraphrasing, but you must have somehow lost your mind.
So you agree that God/Allah created you so then you are not Allah after all? Or are you a god besides Allah?
What do you want to hear then? It is not equivalent because Allah says so? I showed you the logical fallacy in your arguments and it is thus not so because I say so but because simple and plain logic says so.
Peace
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God with or without capital letter does not matter, it is the same entity, the same force in the galaxies.
And God is a word English-speaking people use as a equivalent for Allah. If I read the original Arabic discourse I find Allah and if I read a translation I find, for example, Gud in Swedish or God in English translations. But we refer to the same being. And we do not refer to a normal individual but an ethereal powerhouse and very mighty force in the universe.
I have already disproved your statements the first time I wrote to you in this thread. And I have repeated it more than once too.
Meaning, repeating the argument "It is not equivalent because you say so?"
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606632.msg352595#msg352595
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606632.msg352618#msg352618. . .
And I was talking about you applying your brain while reading the passage to see what it says and not what you want it to say. Because you came up with a lot of nonsense then I had to tell you to also activate your brain.
Claiming that does not prove anything. . .
and in fact, you never answer every issue I raise in this thread
what you did from the beginning of this thread is merely asserting your blank denial and repeating the argument "It is not equivalent because you say so."
. . .
I already told you how inconsistent your argument was based on the actual meaning of the passage you took out of context and extracted a weird conjecture around. I wrote twice the meaning of the passage in paraphrasing, but you must have somehow lost your mind.
another repetition. . merely insisting that you are right, there is no facts at all to support your contention.
Can you answer this simple question of "YES" or "NO" ?
. . .
So you agree that God/Allah created you so then you are not Allah after all? Or are you a god besides Allah?
Did you read? or as I said. . ."what you did is merely asserting your blank denial and. . ."
. . .
That is the "interpretation provision" for what is Allah, as equal to the Interpretation Act, Interpretation Clause etc. . .
This chapter define the word Allah, since the word "God" in the Quran is for human understandings
Human beings can only understand "God", not Allah on its own. . no one can.
and the word "god" cannot conclusively referring to Allah because it is referring to so many people, self, objects and etc in the Quran.
It is "equivalent" and defeat Surah Al-Ikhlas . . . discrepancy (refer here)http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606632.msg352618#msg352618
. . .
What do you want to hear then? It is not equivalent because Allah says so?
Allah is not God. . .and no one knows what is Allah. . .
He it is Who has revealed the Book to you
some of its verses are decisive
they are the basis of the Bookand others are allegorical
then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity
they follow the part of it which is allegorical
seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretationbut none knows its interpretation
except Allahand those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say
We believe in it, it is all from our Lord
and none do mind (this reminder) except those who are endowed with insight
(3.7)our life is about the "Deen", the practical Muslims living. . .and not about all the nonsense people speaks about Allah.
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You are using erroneous translations so your whole arguments lean on a weak foundation so you should not be so cocky.
I told you in another thread that the passage you quote says "no one knows the interpretation of the allegories except Allah/God and those well-founded in knowledge". The other people, those who are in their confusion, cannot understand a thing and wonder what God/Allah means with that allegory.
It is not equivalent because I say so but because of the logical fallacies in your statements.
And we, who speak English, use God as a word for Allah which is more or less literally THE GOD. I do not understand what you are rambling on about with this "I am God" thing? Because, as we already have discussed in the past, you cannot use definite article in English in front of a proper noun used for a name for it to be grammatically correct and hence it uses a capital letter instead. It may cause problems that people like you seem to enjoy to exploit such as when you are to say "no other god than God" it sounds silly.
And you may have noticed that God/Allah is referred to as arrahman or arraheem or aladheem too and are you going to make fun of them also?
Claiming that you should activate your brain indeed proves something because then you may realize what you have missed if you followed the recommendation.
And no I was not merely insisting I am right but I was pointing out in simpler way the second time that your brain may see it clearly, however to no prevail. The facts is in the language in the passage itself and they are there and I paraphrased the facts for you as if the original translation and interpretation was not good for you already. I said the same thing.
And Allah is a god, however 'the god', and the only entity that is a god as well. Ilah or god refers to the same and that is a title for a position of power and of which there is only one.
And stop parroting your faulty translation of "no one knows its interpretation" because it does not make sense. Why would Allah even compile a recitation if no one except Allah knew its interpretation?
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"Monotheistic Believers" and "Atheists" are mutually exclusive, he's trying to show that this is false.
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You are using erroneous translations so your whole arguments lean on a weak foundation so you should not be so cocky.
I told you in another thread that the passage you quote says "no one knows the interpretation of the allegories except Allah/God and those well-founded in knowledge". The other people, those who are in their confusion, cannot understand a thing and wonder what God/Allah means with that allegory.
Okay. . I guess you forgot about the double negative rules. . .
And NONE will remember EXCEPT those who possess intelligence. (3.7)
and therefore it means. . .
Nope. . you are misinterpreted that verse, because if they understand the allegories, then it is inconsistent with the word "no one knows except Allah" (rule of negation, "except". . ie. ONLY Allah knows their meaning), and also take note on the rule of "double negative".
Therefore, the last part of that verse is about only those who are "firmly rooted in knowledge" will take heed on the "reminder" of Allah in that verse. . . Other than that, they are not people of "firmly rooted in knowledge" but are those who have the elements of deviation and diseases in their hearts.
Meaning, those who are "firmly rooted in knowledge" will take heed on the "reminder" of Allah to ignore the allegorical and focusing their life on the "Deen" of Islam, the practical Muslims living.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606564.msg350960#msg350960
. . . .
And we, who speak English, use God as a word for Allah which is more or less literally THE GOD. I do not understand what you are rambling on about with this "I am God" thing? Because, as we already have discussed in the past, you cannot use definite article in English in front of a proper noun used for a name for it to be grammatically correct and hence it uses a capital letter instead. It may cause problems that people like you seem to enjoy to exploit such as when you are to say "no other god than God" it sounds silly.
You confuse about the issue ?
If you wish to discuss the issue on translations, it is in here.
This is not about translation , but the legal and logical structure of the Quran . . the interpretation provision of Allah.
. . .
And you may have noticed that God/Allah is referred to as arrahman or arraheem or aladheem too and are you going to make fun of them also?
So you can conclusively explain Ar-Rahman and Ar-Raheem ?
or it is nonsense and something you have created in your mind ?
Allah who will think and act like a man ?
. . .
Claiming that you should activate your brain indeed proves something because then you may realize what you have missed if you followed the recommendation.
Again. . . do you feel superior ?
Okay. . I hope you are happy.Why not you start reading the issue I have raised and bring facts and your logical premises.
You have ignored every issue I raised with your blank denial , even one with the option of "YES" or "NO".. . .
And no I was not merely insisting I am right but I was pointing out in simpler way the second time that your brain may see it clearly, however to no prevail. The facts is in the language in the passage itself and they are there and I paraphrased the facts for you as if the original translation and interpretation was not good for you already. I said the same thing.
And Allah is a god, however 'the god', and the only entity that is a god as well. Ilah or god refers to the same and that is a title for a position of power and of which there is only one.
See. . you are repeting the same argument, "It is not equivalent because you say so".
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606632.msg352595#msg352595
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606632.msg352618#msg352618 -
"Monotheistic Believers" and "Atheists" are mutually exclusive, he's trying to show that this is false.
The Atheist are fake because they have so many GODS in their heart, they are fake and plastic. .
They don't even understand what does it mean with "NO GOD".
The nearer is the Buddhist Monk, they have NO GOD in their heart. . .and far better than the so-called Muslim in today's world.
and . . .
Muhammad and Muslims . . . they killed religious people, the hypocrites in all religions and sectarians
and they are very proud of it, because they are establishing the unconditional freedom of religion and unity within diversityhttp//www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Qpy0mXg8Y
No one can deny the above facts. . .It is facts. . and they have no fear, no worry
In today's description or understanding , they are the True Atheist and they have no fear, no worry. . .
because they have No God, No Religion, and No Nonsense. . . only Allah!
This is the description of "NO GOD"
Unquestionably, the allies of Allah
there will be
no fear concerning them (NO GOD) <- because everything is certain! no nonsense
nor will they grieve (NO GOD) they live in real world, not illusion from the allegorical
1062AND this how true believers look like in the real world, at least almost . . . NO GOD, NO RELIGION. . . .
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWE3BPUGC5Y
ie. . . no fear concerning them (NO GOD)
nor will they grieve (NO GOD)http//i57.tinypic.com/9927w0.jpg
NO GOD (0), free from fault and sin. . . free from Shirk. Freedom. . .
No fear. . no grievances. . .
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I don't know what can be said, except that the devil's touch to your head has driven you insane! Such lies (without knowledge i should emphasize) about the believers and a prophet of God!
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I don't know what can be said, except that the devil's touch to your head has driven you insane! Such lies (without knowledge i should emphasize) about the believers and a prophet of God!
Yes. . another nonsense, and it must always be the "DEVIL" etc. . .
I've said it. . .
See ? Nonsense and egoistic speaking. . . God only promises to you, and as if you know everything about Allah
and I'm sure people like you will always speak nonsense and appeal to hell, resurrection day, fire, satan and all the irrational thinking etc
so that you can keep people?s minds from thinking and employs fear and violence to prevent truth
so that you can easily declare those who don't agree with you as people of the Hell Fire, as if you are the Son of Allah or something.The Pharaoh Personality A parable for all times
By the way, you still did not answer this issue. (refer here)
Such lies (without knowledge i should emphasize) about the believers and a prophet of God!
So you deny Muhammad killed religious people ?
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Qpy0mXg8Y
How do you explain Islam reached every part of this world and more than 1 billion people becoming the Muslim Ummah ?
Muhammad preached the Quran and sent people to do Dawah ? laugh
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There is alot of misunderstanding, language confusion and communication problems regarding this topic.
Unless I'm mistaken, the core of what 'muslims' is saying is that
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All that exists is Allah. Only Allah is Allah, but Creation is part of Allah, but infinitely lesser, yet still part. But being part of Allah is not the same as being Allah. So when 'muslims' says that we are Allah it doesn't mean that the mere sum of all of us are what is called Allah, or that all Creation together makes up the full Allah.
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We are part of creation, but we are not a separate thing from Allah. Think of it like there isn't a space where there is 1) Allah and outside/beside Allah, in this "space" is 2) creation. What 'muslims' is trying to convey is that Allah is not a separate entity. He is rejecting this fragmentation. What he calls God, by definition, and which he rejects the existence of, is precisely the notion of a separate divine entity existing apart from Creation.
I'm ready to be corrected if I have misunderstood.
PeaceSalaam,
This understanding is doing clear shirk with Allah, and according to The Quran this is a totally nope understanding.
Even if we take the sum of the parts as small as 0.000...001 then it is still doing shirk.IF we (=I) take The Quran as our (=my) guide in this matter AND our (=my) understanding of the definitions of the key words used in the Quran for this matter are good enough THEN it is not hard to conclude that there is a clear distinction between Allah and His creation, every thing is His but not a thing is part of Him.
3040
salaam,
Bender -
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http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606632.msg352397#msg352397
I believe the Shahada cannot be used to define Allah.
It can only be used to define ourselves, and finding our path to Allah.Nothing can. . . and. .
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606632.msg352623#msg352623
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Allah says. . .
No (ا god (َ Only (ا Allah (ُ
No god (0) only Allah (1)
Say He, Allah, is One (112.1)The premise is . . .
No god (0)
only Allah (1)This is the formula for "reality"
It must be "0", otherwise we will not know the realityThis is equally true in quantum physics
We cannot prove our own existence
Not because there is no creation. .But because. .
The "0" is not about our existence, but about our "sense perception"
It is our sense perception that is equal to "1" (ie. I AM GOD)
Deaf, dumb and blind - so they will not return. (2.1
Deaf, dumb and blind. . . is about our sense perception.
We are deaf, dumb and blind because "I AM GOD" (1)and I believe "they will not return" cannot be interpreted as return to the straight path
Because one must first be on the straight path, before they can return to the straight path
Therefore, I believe "return" to reality. . .They deceive Allah and those who believe
but they deceive not except themselves
and perceive not.
2.9Thus, they cannot benefit from this life, and cannot benefit afterlife, no life. . just passing life.
What is God ?
Have you seen the one who takes as his god his own desire?
Then would you be responsible for him?
25.43God is desire, God is dreams. . .
Our desire is us. . we. . I. . . as GOD
Desire = I
Ego = ITherefore
I = GOD (I AM GOD) (1)
"Self", it is the cause of everything (effect), new gods, religions, corruptions etc. . .
It is the "primary" God, and all other gods are "secondary". . .
I AM GOD. . . (1)and Allah says, "NO GOD"! (0)
Allah has not made for a man two hearts in his interior. (33.4)
But we have two hearts. . . "I AM GOD" (1) + ALLAH (1)
Therefore, our sense perception is equal to those who are deaf dumb and blind.
"I AM GOD" (1) + ALLAH (1)
It is illusion. . because number "2" or more is illusion
What is "2" ?
2 is 1 + 1
What is "3" ?
3 is 1 + 1 + 1
and so on. . .it is just an additional "1" in our heart , and it is illusion.Allah is God ?
Allah is not God, and nothing can explain or equivalent to Allah
The word God is used in the Quran because human beings only understand God
No one can understand the word "Allah" on its own. . they only understand "God", human terms . .
Therefore, there must be an "interpretation provision", and Al-Ikhlas is the interpretation chapter for "Allah"The truth, we are God . . .our ego and self
We create religions. . and cause corruptions.
We associate ourselves (GOD) with Allah
Unless and until we eliminate our ego
Unless and until we have "NO GOD" (0)
We are deaf dumb and blind, and will never return. . . as Believers -
This understanding is doing clear shirk with Allah, and according to The Quran this is a totally nope understanding.
Even if we take the sum of the parts as small as 0.000...001 then it is still doing shirk.IF we (=I) take The Quran as our (=my) guide in this matter AND our (=my) understanding of the definitions of the key words used in the Quran for this matter are good enough THEN it is not hard to conclude that there is a clear distinction between Allah and His creation, every thing is His but not a thing is part of Him.
3040
salaam,
BenderClear shirk with Allah????
Just because somebody disagree with you, you label them as 'shirk'? (whatever that mean).3040 tells nothing that refute the claim of "Creation (actually he meant this universe) is Part of God".
If you don't believe in such definition and have your own definition then fine.First let's settle some basic understanding on "inside or outside or where/location and when/time".
Space and time is one continuum in this universe.
Space and time itself is a creation.
The big bang was the 'beginning of space and time' there was no 'time and space' (that we perceive as of now) before such event occur.
And today we see a phenomenon of something which sucks 'space and time' and everything that depends on it (light, matter and others) into non-existence.
We named such phenomenon as 'black hole', it has infinite (uncountable) mass and zero volume.Because we cannot count the 'infinite', we can also say that the 'black hole' has no mass. At least from our (limited) perspective.
Due to our own definition of something which has no volume or mass is defined as not exist.
Then the 'black hole' as per space and time definition do not exist.Yet it does exist within this universe, it devour 'space and time' into non-existence.
The black hole is one of the example of 'something which is within and also outside this universe'.
In order to 'suck time and space of this universe' it need to be 'within this universe' and because it has no / infinite mass and no volume it's 'outside this universe'.The black hole appears in many places in this universe.
Infact every galaxy among trillion of galaxies within this universe at least has one in it in the center.Now back to the main topic.
The conception of God is both within and outside this universe AND always present since and before the birth of this universe and beyond the end of this universe is not something new. That's how the israelite define YHVH, the ancient Indians define Brahman, Siddhartha define the 'ultimate consciousness' and how Lao Tse define Tao.
If Allah is not as defined above then the opposite / negation will be.
Allah is NOT within and outside this universe AND NOT present since and before the birth of this universe and beyond the end of this universe .
Which can be simplified as, Allah do not exist within and beyond this space and time.
Which is the same as saying Allah do not exist at all.If you believe as such then fine...
If that's the case then your definition of Allah differs with the israelite definition YHVH, the ancient Indians definition Brahman, siddharta definition the 'ultimate consciousness' , Lao Tse's definition of Tao.And I see no need for me (or somebody else) to label you with 'shirk' or any other 'label'.
PS I don't tale Quran as my only guide on any matter.
Salam / Peace
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peace