Verse 2:54 Perhaps Needs Proper Translation
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Im curious the difference between
- Qotala li nafsikum and,
- Qotala bi nafsikum
The first one is kill your own self, but the second one mean, kill by yourself right? But the first one should be written down, anfusikum, not nafsikum right? It still confuse me.
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Im curious the difference between
- Qotala li nafsikum and,
- Qotala bi nafsikum
The first one is kill your own self, but the second one mean, kill by yourself right? But the first one should be written down, anfusikum, not nafsikum right? It still confuse me.
I actually don't know which verses you are referring and sadly I still didn't read any English translated commentary of the Quran, if you can give me the chapter number and verse I might be able to tell you the difference. Below some differences
Qatala = Killed
Qotela = Got killed
Qetal = Fight
Qatel = Kill
Qatlaa = Group of killed pplby Tasrif you mean the Arabic word
if yes the above word have different meanings based on the context.
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Im curious the difference between
- Qotala li nafsikum and,
- Qotala bi nafsikum
The first one is kill your own self, but the second one mean, kill by yourself right? But the first one should be written down, anfusikum, not nafsikum right? It still confuse me.
Peace,
Perhaps helpful to learn prefixes and suffixes which the Arabic writing is cryptic with much of the letters written in shorthand/acronyms mostly likely initially to save space hence why context is important and likewise there are nuances which as with any language often times at first glance can come out rather strange in the translation if one is unfamiliar as in the 254 example which literally translates as ?kill yourselves? meaning kill your attitudes or erring ways.
nafsin/soul (feminine singular)
41 O you the humankind fear/be mindful ye of lord yours the one created you from nafsin/soul (f/s) single/one and created from her/it spouse hers/its and dispersed from them dual menfolk of much of and womenfolk
Written with leading alif (plural)
29 deceiving the god and the ones believe they of and not deceiving only anfusahum/souls theirs (i.e. themselves) and not realizing254 and when said Musa/Moses to folk his O folk that surely you have wronged you anfusakum/souls yours (i.e. yourselves) in taking you the calf so turn/repent ye of to creator yours so slays ye of anfusakum/souls yours (i.e. change your erring ways of idolatry) such yours good/best for you near creator yours so turned on you surely he he the frequent the merciful
Written with leading lm
177 if do good you do good you li-anfusikum/for souls yours (yourselves) and if do evil you so for her/it (i.e. for your own soul)...Written with leading b
2412 why not when heard they it think the believing and the believers (f/p) bi-anfusihim/by souls theirs (i.e. in/by themselves) best/better of and say they of this one lie clear/evidentWritten with trailing alif (i.e. any soul)
2286 not burdens the god nafsan/soul of except capacity its to it what earned and on it what has earned ...Written with trailing h?
654 and when came you the ones believing in signs/verses ours say peace upon you written/prescribed lord yours on nafsihi/soul his (himself) the mercy that he whom work from among you evil of in ignorance furthermore turned from after this and correct so surely he forgiver merciful -
Well I am a native Arabian, I find it easy to understand but still I could always be wrong. The verse doesn't say kill your self, but instead kill your own ppl (Meaning those who didn't worship should kill those who worshiped the calf). And if you read the Bible this is actually what happened there, they didn't kill themselves, instead they fought each others and killed each others. Like he said in another verse
or
coz el nafs doesn't mean the spirit/soul inside us but "us" or "your own" so the meaning of
(you get your own ppl out of) it can be country, home, ...etc
Peace
Salam brother Abdul Aziz.
I would like to present to you the footnote that Muhammad Asad used in his translation of Qur'an on this verse
39 Lit., "kill yourselves" or, according to some commentators, "kill one another". This
literal interpretation (probably based on the Biblical account in Exodus xxxii, 26-2
is not, however, convincing in view of the immediately preceding call to repentance and
the subsequent statement that this repentance was accepted by God. I incline, therefore,
to the interpretation given by 'Abd al-Jabbar (quoted by Razi in his commentary on this
verse) to the effect that the expression "kill yourselves" is used here in a metaphorical
sense (majazan), i.e., "mortify yourselves".(from The Message of The Quran translated and explained by Muhammad Asad)
So you can see, even arabic scholars (Abd al-Jabbar, Razi and Md. Asad himself) found that ALTHOUGH literally the word implies killing - the context demands that we understand the statement metaphorically.
Being a native Arabic speakers puts you into a huge advantage over others in terms of understanding the Qur'an. But be careful - there is a disadvantage as well. You run the risk of being over-confident on accepting the immediate literal meaning of the words - which is typically the immediate image the verse portrays in your mind. The Qur'an is a book that demands the reader to read and interpret it making the best use of conscience and intellect - the immediate literal meaning is not all there is - it deserves the afterthought and rethinking.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
The word said
fa-uq'tul
and kill CONJ ? prefixed conjunction fa (and)
V ? 2nd person masculine plural imperative verb
PRON ? subject pronoun(25415)
anfusakumNot Uqtulu li anfusakum. Uqtulu li anfusakum mean Kill your self or suicide. Uqtulu anfusakum mean something better.
http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=4&verse=29
Well, that verse said something about kill your own self too. But had different meaning. Anyone had a clue?
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429 O you who believe, do not consume your money between you unjustly, unless it is through a trade which is mutually agreed by you. And do not kill yourselves; God is Merciful towards you.
430 And whoever does so out of animosity and transgression, We will cast him to a Fire; and this for God is very easy.It is lame whatsoever that all of a sudden the Arabic inserts a phrase about not killing yourselves while talking about consuming money of each other unjustly. It is rather that it means "do improve yourselves"; God is Merciful towards you. But then you have the 'la' which is inferred to mean 'not' as well. You see yourselves that 430 continues on the same topic as 429. Something is fishy there. Wake up.
Have faith
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429 O you who believe, do not consume your money between you unjustly, unless it is through a trade which is mutually agreed by you. And do not kill yourselves; God is Merciful towards you.
430 And whoever does so out of animosity and transgression, We will cast him to a Fire; and this for God is very easy.It is lame whatsoever that all of a sudden the Arabic inserts a phrase about not killing yourselves while talking about consuming money of each other unjustly. It is rather that it means "do improve yourselves"; God is Merciful towards you. But then you have the 'la' which is inferred to mean 'not' as well. You see yourselves that 430 continues on the same topic as 429. Something is fishy there. Wake up.
Have faith
If Im not mistaken "laa" which mean not, if based from the root LY. And "la" for to is from the root L.
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Yes. In mainstream understanding it means 'not', but I am personally not so sure about that during my comprehensive studies. It often does not suit the narrative.
Besides Arabic has ma as standard word for 'not' which occurs frequently in the text. In the Arabic text when a word with does not mean 'not' is . Like . Most diacritical marks I deem later inventions such as , but appears authentic. When it appears to mark thereof (from) be, like in asema "spirit thereof be", marking metaphorically as the soul is from there since Arabic "paints up" what it likes to say.
Note that I study Arabic independently from the usual biases by ignoring all that is known of Arabic and learning it like a child from the text itself except accepting the sounds of the letters which are the same in Hebrew as well. By saying so I mean I do not take anything for granted, i.e. I am open to that anything might be wrong in traditional grammar knowledge and that words are not safe even if coming from a dictionary. Qatal is an example of a word that has emerged, it simply lacks proficiency to imply kill/fight despite been rendered as that for a very long time. We must not forget Persian clerics were involved in the shaping of understanding of early Islam and they were also involved when Judaism was interpreted (yes I know this).
According to where I stand right now means 'that is' and loosely is which is, grammatical formula.
The reason means not is due to the innate meaning of ('thereof' my current understanding interprets it as). And 'it is not'.
Well, my understanding seriously conflicts with all accepted official grammar knowledge, I know. But I still insist on my little venture for it seems to help me get the real interpretation of the passages. And I argue that I am not untrue to the original Arabic either.
Salaam
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According to where I stand right now means 'that is' and loosely is which is, grammatical formula.
The reason means not is due to the innate meaning of ('thereof' my current understanding interprets it as). And 'it is not'.
Well, my understanding seriously conflicts with all accepted official grammar knowledge, I know. But I still insist on my little venture for it seems to help me get the real interpretation of the passages. And I argue that I am not untrue to the original Arabic either.
Salaam
Salamun alaikum.
Your new found understanding conflicts with more than "all accepted official grammar knowledge"
283 And We took the covenant of the Children of Israel ?You shall not serve except God, and do good to your parents, and regard the relatives, and the orphans, and the needy, and say kind things to the people and mind your character, and be a purified character.? But then you turned away, except for a few of you; you were objecting.
(Translated by Man of Faith here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605447.msg358249#msg358249)
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Harmony be with you Armanaziz,
You ought to wish to take a look at the Arabic according to my argument about before making any critical remarks.
La ta'aebdun ila Allah, i.e. be abdun that which is Allah. Since it ends with the "objectifier" in the aebd word it marks simply that you should be servants of Allah. Although I would argue that aebd means to be "possession within condition", which is the one of Allah, although servant or serving Allah may suffice as translation. Some say slaves, but I prefer bondsmen which sounds nicer.
Another problem is that the definition of nearly all Arabic words need to be corrected because in its present erroneous understanding there are tons of conflicts within the discourse itself, but not due to that my understanding it wrong but because ignorant men tinkered and derived a meaning not there in the original Arabic.
Hence my arguments for is not impossible.
And you have more logical difficulties about the passage about "do not commit suicide" if it happens that it does not mean "kill yourselves" because then it says "do not improve/exhort yourselves" which means like "feel free to consume the money of others in whatever way you like".
283 And We took the covenant of the Children of Israel ?You shall not serve except God, and do good to your parents, and regard the relatives, and the orphans, and the needy, and say kind things to the people and mind your character, and be a purified character.? But then you turned away, except for a few of you; you were objecting.
(Translated by Man of Faith here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605447.msg358249#msg358249
You need to pay attention to that the above translation is from the 'Monotheist group' only with modifications. But I agree now that the translation is imperfect. The intention with above translation is to expose the "salateh" delusion and not to unravel "", but if I make another copy-paste from Monotheist Translation I will remember to correct that one as well. God willing in some future I will be able to provide my own translation so that I do not have to rely upon faulty translations.
Have faith
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Harmony be with you Farabi,
Personally I do not accept that understanding. I know 'ma' is regarded as "what is", but the word is more used to mark 'not' than what you suggested. There is a problem where the language is thought to say "what is", but it actually says 'not' while in the same sentence 'la' is used and thought to mean 'not' while it does not.
The ironical thing is that the 'la' is has more connotation on "what/which is" than 'ma'. The only alternative understanding in my world is "thereof be" for 'ma' as from 'source of reference' as used in a word like M'uslim. means something like 'it is' and 'it is not' despite mainstream understanding.
However, I have not yet verified it myself, but based upon some signs may mean what you suggested, such as is in the word 'asema'. Hence derived from without any diacritic. If alone without then the is usually added to the proceeding word as a prefix as in 'musadeqeen' and then it means a positive attribution of being sadeq while implies negativity. The error in interpretation may derive from Arabic being a flow of text and alef has no continuous connection to the subsequent word, but you start writing on the next word after it. Hence why saying M'sadequeen you imply that a person is sadeq, while if Ma sadequeen you say they are not.
Here for example it would say mumineen if it would be positive, but as the implication is negative then it says and , but has it been positive it would have said . The is because you give a reference to some people and you mean it is true while implies the opposite, i.e. negative/false.
Often it seems that 'la' would naturally imply 'not', but it should be noted that the one(s) who added verse numberings did so in ignorance. Often the preceding passage or part of it is meant to be part of the next.
I know that my teaching is in conflict with literally everyone on Earth, but that does not mean I am wrong. It can be that 99.9% of all people are wrong because they just follow what is commonly accepted without even questioning its authenticity. At least my 'brainworks' have been utterly my own and I have taken care in making sure I am right. When there are controversy in the traditional interpretation mine can explain why it is so.
A little lesson about 'lam' and 'meem'
Lam is a letter that connotes 'that/to' while suggests thereof/from. based on this principle would suggest it means 'that/to is' while therefrom be or even away from being, i.e. it is distant from what you propose. is used in confirming/definite words just as in (that be Elah) while such as gives reference 'thereof' amanon. So it depend on whether you speak of a subject or an object of a sentence from a grammatical standpoint. For example, al-dheen yamano then this refers to the subject of this sentence "that be - which entity - thereof entity " (translation "those which have affinity", while if you would refer to some person as an object or indirect object as a source of reference of a sentence you would use a word prefixed with 'meem'. You talk about someone passively with 'meem' while 'la' means actively.
That is too why 'la' is never followed by 'meem' because it would create an error in grammar because you would connote two things in contradiction. However, the may precede words like Al-muslimeen because it marks ' aslamoon'. But 'ma' can be used before 'la' because it marks 'which be not' although traditional interpreters have been confusing themselves over which means not and which means 'which'.
on the other hand works like but using the precept. It is all grammar and follows rules. Arabic is phenomenally simple in its rules.
Have faith
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Oh God, it was just a random copy-paste from a search in my study tool on 'la' and 'ma'. It was the phrase after the last conjunction in a sentence, to demonstrate the Arabic. But I realized it is easy to go back to just paste the phrase again in the prompt. It is 288.
It is also not that they do not believe for they likely believe, but it is not that they have the (spiritual) affinity required. There are many people who claim to believe in "God" and they also do so wholeheartedly, but they have accepted fabrications as part of their faith. The word 'amen' marks belonging or like I translate "affinity" and acceptance. It does not merely to believe in "God" but you need to also have the proper affinity. You cannot say "I believe in "God"" and then do something which utterly shows you have absolutely no affinity at all with "God", the realm, angels, prophets etc. "God" is not after someone who pretends anything but someone who is of affinity.
A kafar (fabricator) does not have affinity for they are a sectarian (mushrikeen) and they live in a world of fabrications concerning "God".
A sectarian person who would lead a good life may yet enter Heaven despite being deluded into believing some fabrications due to the difficulty in deriving which is true or false, but it is the deeds in your life which will determine your eligibility of Heaven. The problem is that fabrications may often lead a person into irrelevant rituals and things which get the mind off the true spiritual path and cause those people to miss the point. However, a fabricator, particularly a deliberate one, is considered the lowliest of the lowliest by "God". Unfortunately the infamous erroneous perception of kafar has lead the so-called "disbelievers" to get the worst beating. Take a look at this
855 The worst creatures to God are those who reject, for they do not believe.
There are more than one problem with this translation. One is that they fabricate for those who have affinity "aldheen kafaro f-hem la yuminon. The (letter literally means 'forth' prior to (them) implies continuity as a result of the kafaro (fabricate) in the previous word. And like I already said, implies 'that be' and ones (of) affinity.
Summary summarum is that little is accurate in available translations, even 'Monotheist translation' although they at least inserted a little work of the brain in their attempt.
And there are many sectarians who have affinity for "God" but the fabricators offer them a lot of false teachings.
Salaam
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There are more than one problem with this translation. One is that they fabricate for those who have affinity "aldheen kafaro f-hem la yuminon. The (letter literally means 'forth' prior to (them) implies continuity as a result of the kafaro (fabricate) in the previous word. And like I already said, implies 'that be' and ones (of) affinity.
Well, I think you got it wrong. The translation which you streaked is the right one.
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Tranquility be upon you Farabi,
Well, I think you got it wrong. The translation which you streaked is the right one.
On a first-hand look it may seem that I am wrong, but not if you perceive that certain words are not what they seem to be.
Of course in case you interpret 'la' as 'not' then your translation may be correct, but you still have grammatical inconsistency, because the passages says al-dheen kafaroo F-hem LA yaminoon. The is important for comprehension as I tried to convey already. Without giving result through kafaroo for through you invent a meaning not in the Arabic. And the other case with 'ma yuminoon' below would be used in case it would give reference to the subject, in the example you say I am wrong about. This is why I brought the other example for you. So in this passage it implies that they bring kafaro for those (fe-hem) that are of affinity (la yuminon). And kafar is fabrication, things not part of the faith.
EDIT Although it is depending on context, because kafar literally means "Cause Forth Foundation", so it could mean grow crops in a field or whatever. But one who comprehends obviously knows it is a negative remark if you say "kafaroo b'Allah" since the word means you produce something, unless you of course have the right to do so being a prophet, yet their words are not their own but of the One who sent them.
Sorry I dont get you right, on verse 288 which part maa mean is not?
Here it passively refers to the subject as NOT thereof amanon, and this is because they have fabricated things concerning Allah, rather than what people traditionally think about disbelieving/rejection. In case it would give affirmation to being (thereof) amanon the same phrase would be written Muminoon. And so this was my point in the gesture.
They are not of affinity is what the passage likes to convey.
Have faith
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Ok thanks I get it. I think I saw part of maa which is translated as not. Im still confuse with arabic language logic. Its like english word "sort of" for agreeing something, what should be sorted when you are agreeing something, that is as an non native english speaker will think because we had different logic. That is called idiom in here. Also there is an idiom of sick house in here which mean a hospital, come to think of it, can a house be sick? Did you see a different logic when we are using language? I wanted to understand about this arabic language logic sistem. Like, peace be upon you, and for him what he done. Why peace should be above us, and why what we done using for, but that is how arabic language logic is.
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Harmony with you Farabi,
You are confused because you have the perception of the scholars and clerics, and it is deeply rooted their false inferences in you. Arabic grammar is so easy that it is barely possible to misinterpret it, as long as you know it properly. does always have a negative remark unless which is usually part of a word, but may interestingly from a Hebrew origin represent water as . This is why Moses is called in Arabic, because his soul was taken out of the water.
Not entirely sure about how water occurs in Quran (except traditional claims), but marks "thereof be". Not sure if it is marks that life stems from water.
It could be that Arabic "borrows" words from Hebrew that they seem to use that can be confused with .
Apart from that the those words without diacritical marks are plain simple. It is a variety of grammar words and , and and , and and . Those are antonyms of each other. And you have (thereof one) to give object reference (of a type), or you have that is based on no matter what people claim, and it abstractly means affinity/belonging. Unless used as you need to consider yourself what means, but literally it means "be thereof one with Allah". People do not understand this because they look beyond themselves for Allah so they shall not find Allah either.
And you have which gives continuation of the former word into the anonymity of of the type that follows after by successive words.
There are certain grammar words to learn, but once learned their meaning is very simple and it is easier to make out what a text wants to convey, even if you do not master the nouns yet.
And even then words follow an extremely easy logic such as ketab Cause Character entity with. It refers to a way to deal with various problems. If you use it means you have a decree to cause character with. It does not mean book.
Have faith
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My translation says "slay yourselves the wrongdoers."
I would suppose that it is like saying bake yourself a cake. It doesn't realy mean you are baking yourself.
This fits in better with the original Biblical account where those who would not repent worshipping idols were slain.