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  4. Verse 2:54 Perhaps Needs Proper Translation

Verse 2:54 Perhaps Needs Proper Translation

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • S Offline
    S Offline
    sushi1992
    wrote on last edited by
    #81

    Peace MOF, hope you had a good Christmas break.

    So I've been reading this thread, and yes, I realize that qtl (or qatala used in 2.54) does not always mean kill (I.e. kill the physical body....) As in 2.54 it wouldn't make sense... Neither in the verses mentioned in chapter 4 as you can't capture and say if they repent as they would be already dead so.....

    Did anyone actually come to a conclusion of what the actual translation might be? I've been researching it but I'm still unsure as I'm quite poor with Arabic....

    Peace peace

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      Farabi
      wrote on last edited by
      #82

      Literary QTL mean kill. But on the quran, sometime it used as a parable.

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        sushi1992
        wrote on last edited by
        #83

        So the translation of 254 is kill yourself? Or kill your soul? Kill can be replaced by something more metaphorically pleasing could it not? I.e. mortify yourselves as I've seen from one translation. Huruf/mof, perhaps I missed a post but what is your actual translation and why? I didn't quite understand your point in regards to la not always meaning "not" .

        Peace peace

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          Man_of_Faith
          wrote on last edited by
          #84

          Harmony be with you sushi1992,

          Literally the word qatal means 'exhort' and does not refer to killing at all. It is a misconception.

          It has connotations like scold, admonish, to correct (v.).

          Have faith

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            sushi1992
            wrote on last edited by
            #85

            Harmony be with you sushi1992,

            Literally the word qatal means 'exhort' and does not refer to killing at all. It is a misconception.

            It has connotations like scold, admonish, to correct (v.).

            Have faith

            Peace MoF,

            You say that qatal means "exhort" but in the verse mentioned I don't see qatal...

            254 and when said Musa/Moses to folk his O folk that surely you have wronged you anfusakum/souls yours (i.e. yourselves) in taking you the calf so turn/repent ye of to creator yours so slays ye of anfusakum/souls yours (i.e. change your erring ways of idolatry) such yours good/best for you near creator yours so turned on you surely he he the frequent the merciful

            (Above was a Quote from some other person in the thread)

            The words used are ikum faoqtuloo anfusakum.. my Arabic as I said is poor but that looks difficult to qatal. (Have patience with me lol).

            peace

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            • F Offline
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              Farabi
              wrote on last edited by
              #86

              Harmony be with you sushi1992,

              Literally the word qatal means 'exhort' and does not refer to killing at all. It is a misconception.

              It has connotations like scold, admonish, to correct (v.).

              Have faith

              So, how do you said this on arabic, "A criminal kill his hostage"? Im curious.

              Why dont you made your own translation and remove QTL mean maybe for example, tickling. Lets see what will be the translation be. I dont think changing the quran words mean will give us any benefit. I think it only give us confusion. Lets just do that, we remove the word kill from the world in order to hope that killing will be vanished. I dont think it gonna worked that way. What is gonna happen then is, there would be a new word to describe the act of killing and people will asking, what if my family was beeing killed?

              Have a look at this verse http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=3&verse=154#%28315460%29 lets assume that QTL mean is not killing, anyone had time to retranslate this verse and write it in here?

              It is not the quran which need to change, but our self who need to change.

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                sushi1992
                wrote on last edited by
                #87

                I'll await other people's responses on this as well...

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                • A Offline
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                  Aladin_Azra
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #88

                  Verb qatele means "to part" or better "to disjoin" something which is joined. If it's about body and soul then qatele means death or causing death (when it's form II verb), so it's "to kill" in this case. In the Qur'an it's used as "to disjoin" in many occurrences and is wrongly understood as "to kill", as, for example, in aayaat with "killing kids", which is leaving (disjoining) them.

                  There's a noun "nefs", which is from where intentions come; in case of humans it's what we call soul, but in general it's character. Allah has His Nefs also. Plural of nefs is nufoos as in 1725 for example. Enfus is a collective noun from the same root, and this word form (weight) can be used as singular, dual and plural, as, for example, ešhur. Enfus means self (selves), it's not same as nefs.

                  These people done Zulm to themselves (enfusu-hum) by taking to themselves (reflexive form VIII verb is used) el-'ijl (corpus). They were called first to repent to their Baari', and also to disjoin ("kill&quot themselves. By taking el-'ijl they joined with it, as it was said in 293 that their quloob (hearts, minds) absorbed el-'ijl. Calling them to disjoin themselves is not to make suicide, but to disjoin el-'ijl their quloob absorbed from themselves.

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