Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Users
Skins
  • Light
  • Brite
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse
Free Minds Forum Icon
  1. Home
  2. General Issues / Questions
  3. Questions/Comments on the Quran
  4. Oldest Qur?an manuscript MA VI 165

Oldest Qur?an manuscript MA VI 165

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
151 Posts 23 Posters 6.6k Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • N Offline
    N Offline
    Noon_waalqalami
    wrote on last edited by
    #121

    What is there to be afraid off? What nonsensical? Cant you even understand what i wrote? Read the above highlighted in green.

    When you err the right thing to do is acknowledge, thank the person, and make amends to never repeat it.

    E.g. you argued earlier...

    No it does not mean the Quran is in Arabic.

    The Quranic rendering of the word 3rabiya (derived from i3rab), means (those who speak clearly) as contrast with a3jamiya (those who speak indistinctly - outlandish).

    Then later you posted in another thread ...

    Cross reference with 4144

    And if We had made it a non-Arabic Qur'an, they would have said, "Why are its verses not explained? Foreign and Arab" Say, "It is, for those who believe, a guidance and cure." And those who do not believe - in their ears is deafness, and it is upon them blindness. Those are being called from a distant place.

    Now back to nonsensical meanings attributing to others...

    Hizbullah wrote
    "Now, base on Q4144, according to Arrazi, 3jam means Persian. He was right to a certain extent. Actually 3jam means the presence of writing elements known as the ?huzvresh?

    Arrazi is not here to speak for himself; what you wrote is nonsensical and clearly cannot refer to writing elements...

    26198 and in case we revealed it on others (i.e. people) al-ajamna (the non-Arabic speakers)
    26199 so recited it on them (i.e. the non Arabic speakers) not be they of in it believers

    Peace

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • H Offline
      H Offline
      Hizbullah
      wrote on last edited by
      #122

      Then later you posted in another thread ...

      Now back to nonsensical meanings attributing to others...

      Hizbullah wrote
      "Now, base on Q4144, according to Arrazi, 3jam means Persian. He was right to a certain extent. Actually 3jam means the presence of writing elements known as the ?huzvresh?

      Arrazi is not here to speak for himself; what you wrote is nonsensical and clearly cannot refer to writing elements...

      26198 and in case we revealed it on others (i.e. people) al-ajamna (the non-Arabic speakers)
      26199 so recited it on them (i.e. the non Arabic speakers) not be they of in it believers

      Peace

      Haughtiness is arrogant denial of the truth and contempt for people. Your negatives of intense arrogance, obvious dishonesty and lack of knowledge of the Quran can be stacked you as a LIAR. One could package your numerous flubs, deceptions and refusals to admit error, yet, for one unassailable reason?you insist, the establishment, of your adamant dishonesty in which you patently suggest that those old manuscript of the Quran you posted is the oldest! And you think you are right? You deliberately ignore all the verses of the Quran which proves that it is older than what the sectarian like you taught. The Quran do not need MORON like you to tell how old it is. You are blinded by this facts. Not only that, you cannot even comprehend relevant question I put it to you. That shows what a moron you are. You are more obsessed with disproving what I wrote instead of searching for what is truth! Is this what you call yourself a true researcher and a honest human being?

      Yes i wrote all that and also I wrote that my level of comprehending in the Quran has been updated. Why didnt you show that replied i gave you? it only shows what type of character you have. Typical sectarian.

      In fact that is what Arrazi said, why dont you check it out yourself before accusing me of deliberately using his name to express myself? i dont owe you any explanation for that!

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • N Offline
        N Offline
        Noon_waalqalami
        wrote on last edited by
        #123

        ...

        Yes i wrote all that and also I wrote that my level of comprehending in the Quran has been updated. Why didnt you show that replied i gave you? it only shows what type of character you have. Typical sectarian.

        In fact that is what Arrazi said, why dont you check it out yourself before accusing me of deliberately using his name to express myself? i dont owe you any explanation for that!

        You keep ranting above ... I asked you numerous times to clarify your exact meaning "today" and you kept deferring to Arrazi who is not here; likewise clearly showed you in context that it cannot refer to "anything pertaining to writing elements" only to a certain group of "people" i.e. non-Arabic speakers so Arrazi was ignorant if that was what he stated and you are parroting a nonsensical meaning and calling me a liar doesn't help -- no more comments!

        26198 and in case we revealed it on others (i.e. people) al-ajamna (the non-Arabic speakers)
        26199 so recited it on them (i.e. the non Arabic speakers) not be they of in it believers

        Now please stop derailing this thread "Oldest Qur?an manuscript MA VI 165" going off topic else will report you to moderators.

        Peace

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • H Offline
          H Offline
          Hizbullah
          wrote on last edited by
          #124

          You keep ranting above ... I asked you numerous times to clarify your exact meaning "today" and you kept deferring to Arrazi who is not here; likewise clearly showed you in context that it cannot refer to "anything pertaining to writing elements" only to a certain group of "people" i.e. non-Arabic speakers so Arrazi was ignorant if that was what he stated and you are parroting a nonsensical meaning and calling me a liar doesn't help -- no more comments!

          26198 and in case we revealed it on others (i.e. people) al-ajamna (the non-Arabic speakers)
          26199 so recited it on them (i.e. the non Arabic speakers) not be they of in it believers

          Now please stop derailing this thread "Oldest Qur?an manuscript MA VI 165" going off topic else will report you to moderators.

          Peace

          Peace Noon,

          My apologies. hail

          peace

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • H Offline
            H Offline
            Hizbullah
            wrote on last edited by
            #125

            This is not a conspiracy theory, its the truth, Quran was written before the inauguration of christianity. QURANIC AND HISTORICAL EVIDENCES PROVES IT ALL. In fact there are no evidences whatsoever of jesus existences before the 4th Century CE as there are no evidences of an Arab Prophet born in the 6th Century CE. The truth was Esa / Esaias, who was born between the 7th and 6th century BCE. But off course you are going to refute! You are not the believer of the Quran. You believe in the Book created by your Pagan emperor!

            I dont find you intelligible about the Quran, Nothing that you wrote, did you ever quote any Quranic verses to back up your so call theories. Its from you own brain thinking that you are right, smart and you knew everything. In fact what you know about the Quran and Islam is ZERO. You evil intention is to change the Quran, nothing new from what the sectarians had done! Call yourself Quranist but still believe in all those sectarian craps.

            You wrote beautifully, written in the best of English, nothing more but to deceive. The Quran 06112

            And thus We have made for every prophet an enemy - devils from mankind and jinn, inspiring to one another decorative speech in delusion. But if your Lord had willed, they would not have done it, so leave them and that which they invent.

            So much of your hippocracy.

            MOF bro,

            My apologies hail

            peace

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • N Offline
              N Offline
              Noon_waalqalami
              wrote on last edited by
              #126

              Peace Noon,

              My apologies. hail

              peace

              Peace Hizbullah, thank you for the reminder.

              Now back to topic; here are 3 separate manuscripts chapter 20 same style and approximate date...

              Sana Manuscripts
              http//www.unesco-ci.org/photos/showphoto.php/photo/3448/title/all-qur-27anic-fragments/cat/837

              Probability older than CE...

              635.5 56.20%
              640.5
              645.5 75.10%
              650.5
              655.5
              660.5 95.50%
              665.5
              670.5
              675.5 99.20%

              http//oi64.tinypic.com/k2bxfm.jpg

              MA VI 165 Qur?an 95.4% probability between 649-675 CE

              http//idb.ub.uni-tuebingen.de/diglit/MaVI165

              http//oi64.tinypic.com/293cdo4.jpg

              Birmingham Qur?an 95.4% probability between 568-645 CE

              http//www.birmingham.ac.uk/facilities/cadbury/quran-manuscript/index.aspx

              http//oi68.tinypic.com/28vad82.jpg

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • N Offline
                N Offline
                Noon_waalqalami
                wrote on last edited by
                #127

                Peace, was reading another thread that some on internet who lack comprehension probably due to lack sunlight believe the sun "literally" took swan dive into a spring pool near some people and rose upon others perhaps hit them on the head. laugh

                2142 shall say the foolish from the humankind what turned them about focal point theirs the one be they of on it say to god al-mashriqu/the east (i.e. direction of sunrise) wal-maghribu/and the west (i.e. direction of sunset) guides whom wills to path straight

                1817 and thou see the sun when alaat/rose inclining on cave theirs to the right and when gharabat/set passing them to the left and they in open space from it such from signs the god whom guides the god so he (i.e. said person) the guided and whom lets astray so not thou find for him supporter of guide of

                1885 so followed means of
                1886 until when reached maghriba/west (direction of sunset) the sun found it set in spring dark mud and found near it folk of said we O owner the horned two either that thou punish and/or that thou take amongst them good of
                1887 said as for whom wrongs so shortly we punish him furthermore return to lord his so punishes him punishment of harsh
                1888 and as for who believe and does righteous of so for him recompense the beautiful and shall we speak to him from directive ours easy of
                1889 furthermore followed means of
                1890 until when reached rise the sun found it rose on folk not we make for them from against it shelter of

                Sunset Siwa Egypt (this is very relaxing to watch)
                https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7k6roKJxnA

                http//oi68.tinypic.com/15n2kvd.jpg

                http//oi64.tinypic.com/2mmtw1i.jpg

                http//oi63.tinypic.com/14v1spi.jpg

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • I Offline
                  I Offline
                  imrankhawaja
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #128

                  beautiful view in that video noon... i love these type of views ,

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • M Offline
                    M Offline
                    Man_of_Faith
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #129

                    MOF bro,

                    My apologies hail

                    peace

                    Very well.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • N Offline
                      N Offline
                      Noon_waalqalami
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #130

                      Peace everyone -- verse 2215 came up in another thread and the issue in translation is mostly inconsistency, lack of cross-reference, context, and inserting words not present in the text especially this case concerning those who are on the edge of faith?

                      1975 say who be in the error falyamdud/so surely extends for him the almighty extension of until when see they of what promised being either the punishment and either the hour so will understand they of who worst place/position of and weaker host of

                      2211 and from/among the humankind who devoted the god on edge so if struck him good reassured with it and if hits him fit'natun/trial turns on countenance his lost the world and the afterlife such it the loss the clear 2212 calls he of from besides the god what not harms him and what not shall profit him such it the straying the far 2213 calls he of to whom harm his nearer from profit his surely wretched the patron and surely wretched the friend 2214 surely the god enter the ones believes they of and do they of the righteous works gardens flow from underneath it the springs surely the god does what intends

                      2215 who be that think that never supports him (i.e. who/said person) the god in the world and the afterlife falyamdud/so surely extends bisababin/by means/rope? to the firmament/sky/heaven furthermore l'yaqa/let him cutoff so let sees shall remove disposition his what raged
                      2216 and like such have descended we it signs clear and that the god guides whom intends

                      http//oi66.tinypic.com/2581dua.jpg

                      http//oi68.tinypic.com/2lzvih.jpg

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • I Offline
                        I Offline
                        imrankhawaja
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #131

                        @ brother noon send me a link of these pages i mean where i can find whole quran.. in the same sequence.. thanx in advance,,

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • D Offline
                          D Offline
                          Dakhan
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #132

                          Peace everyone -- verse 2215 came up in another thread and the issue in translation is mostly inconsistency, lack of cross-reference, context, and inserting words not present in the text especially this case concerning those who are on the edge of faith?

                          Did you reach a conclusion about 2215 when you checked the photo's of the old manuscript ? What is your conclusion on it ? I can't help you with this because I have no Arabic knowledge, sadly.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • N Offline
                            N Offline
                            Noon_waalqalami
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #133

                            @ brother noon send me a link of these pages i mean where i can find whole quran.. in the same sequence.. thanx in advance,,

                            Peace imrankhawaja,

                            The manuscript 155 pages or ~1/4 of Qur'an (ch17v36 - ch36v55) download best result 132Mb link below...

                            http//idb.ub.uni-tuebingen.de/diglit/MaVI165

                            It takes a bit getting used to although after translating numerous pages it gets easier.

                            Did you reach a conclusion about 2215 when you checked the photo's of the old manuscript ? What is your conclusion on it ? I can't help you with this because I have no Arabic knowledge, sadly.

                            Peace Dakhan,

                            No, script is fairly consistent with modern text except for verse numbering e.g. initialed chapters are single verse, etc.

                            One simply needs to read context it's obvious not telling those on the edge of faith to extend a rope hang themselves?

                            Likewise ask in context of the verses prior and following who exactly does "him" refer to other than back to who?

                            2215 who be that think that never supports him the god

                            Likewise ask how/why this word is translated as rope? by/with ?
                            1884 surely we established we for him in the land and gave him from each thing means/course of
                            2644 so threw they of ropes theirs and staffs theirs and say they of by might Firaun/Pharaoh surely we surely we the dominating
                            1115 on neck hers cord/rope from palm fiber

                            Therefore ...

                            2214 surely the god enter the ones believes they of and do they of the righteous works gardens flow from underneath it the springs surely the god does what intends
                            2215 who be that think that never supports him the god in the world and the afterlife so surely/let extends by means/course to the sky/heaven furthermore let him cutoff so let sees shall remove plan/disposition his what raged
                            2216 and like such have descended we it signs clear and that the god guides whom intends

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • I Offline
                              I Offline
                              imrankhawaja
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #134

                              Peace imrankhawaja,

                              The manuscript 155 pages or ~1/4 of Qur'an (ch17v36 - ch36v55) download best result 132Mb link below...

                              http//idb.ub.uni-tuebingen.de/diglit/MaVI165

                              It takes a bit getting used to although after translating numerous pages it gets easier.

                              handshake thanks buddy

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • I Offline
                                I Offline
                                imrankhawaja
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #135

                                @ brother noon i want the one with translation... the copy i downloaded is just arabic

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • N Offline
                                  N Offline
                                  Noon_waalqalami
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #136

                                  @ brother noon i want the one with translation... the copy i downloaded is just arabic

                                  Peace, the translation is my own (manuscript has 154 pages), here are first 9 start manuscript v1736 to end ch17 start ch18...

                                  http//i65.tinypic.com/eze3q8.jpg

                                  http//oi65.tinypic.com/rtjggh.jpg

                                  http//oi66.tinypic.com/281zxh3.jpg

                                  http//oi68.tinypic.com/20h0h3s.jpg

                                  http//oi67.tinypic.com/352kd8g.jpg

                                  http//oi64.tinypic.com/29qdraa.jpg

                                  http//oi65.tinypic.com/oi9bls.jpg

                                  http//oi64.tinypic.com/1ik16r.jpg

                                  http//oi63.tinypic.com/ixd2t5.jpg

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • N Offline
                                    N Offline
                                    Noon_waalqalami
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #137

                                    Peace -- someone messaged me about hamzah (&#1569 e.i. glottal stop?

                                    In this manuscript appears either as alif or small red dot next to alif...

                                    http//oi63.tinypic.com/avhtvp.jpg

                                    http//oi63.tinypic.com/24pav02.jpg

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • G Offline
                                      G Offline
                                      Gahaiile
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #138

                                      Peace brother.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • M Offline
                                        M Offline
                                        Man_of_Faith
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #139

                                        Virtually no diacritical markers in the original manuscript.

                                        And all the claimed variations of Alef is just one and the same letter.

                                        Be well
                                        Amenuel

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • N Offline
                                          N Offline
                                          Noon_waalqalami
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #140

                                          Peace, another member messaged me to confirm if "alif" in old manuscripts i.e. b-s-m spelling was specific to bismillah or does it also occur in other instances...

                                          200 in name the god the almighty the merciful
                                          208 the god not deity except he for him the names the beautiful
                                          Birmingham Quran ch19v93-ch20v13
                                          http//oi65.tinypic.com/6sxq52.jpg

                                          MA VI 165 Quran ch19v97-ch20v16
                                          http//oi64.tinypic.com/2v9sq3t.jpg

                                          MA VI 165 Quran ch27v28-40
                                          http//oi63.tinypic.com/2zioifb.jpg

                                          2228 to witness they of gains for them and remembered/mention they of name the god in days well-known on what provided them from beast the cattle so eat ye of therein and feed ye of the miserable the poor
                                          2234 and to each community made we of rite of to remembers they of name the god on what provided them from beast the cattle so the deity yours deity one so to him submit ye of and give news the humble ones
                                          MA VI 165 Quran ch22v28-35
                                          http//oi66.tinypic.com/idhd9i.jpg

                                          2436 in houses which the god that elevate and remembered therein name his glorify for him therein in the early/morning and the evenings
                                          MA VI 165 Quran ch24v35-42
                                          http//oi65.tinypic.com/2qxx5bs.jpg

                                          1 Reply Last reply
                                          0
                                          Reply
                                          • Reply as topic
                                          Log in to reply
                                          • Oldest to Newest
                                          • Newest to Oldest
                                          • Most Votes


                                          • Login

                                          • Don't have an account? Register

                                          • Login or register to search.
                                          • First post
                                            Last post
                                          0
                                          • Categories
                                          • Recent
                                          • Users