Do you take the Qur'an literally?
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My loss is also dictated by Allah then. It is you who is don't understand and keep contradicting yourself.
People finding it hard to understand is also dictated by Allah, so you are getting irritated for no reason (unless the irritation is also by Allah? Man, this God reallly like his detailed roleplays). So hence you rebelling against me is also rebelling against Allah's will (unless the double rebellion is also by Allah? Awesome).
I don't care about understanding, since everything is already dictated by Allah and is Allah's will to make me understand or not to understand. And if you reply back to me on this, you are rebelling against Allah Himself, since Allah made me write these words.
So easy to debunk such things right away. Now nothing is my fault, I can say anything I want to FreedomStands and he technically shouldn't say anything back, since everything is already dictated by Allah. Woot.
Peace.
I am not contradicting myself, you are right that if you lose, your loss is by Allah, the Qur'an makes that clear if you're allowed to read my posts ever.
No I am not getting irritated for no reason, my irritation comes from Allah, my hatred comes from Allah, my laughter and my tears ultimately, but on the immediate level there are "appearances" of "causes", but Allah is the one creating every single aspect of information in existence
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and that it is He alone who causes to laugh and to weep;If I say "So and So made me laugh" that is the immediate truth, that is just language and that is normal and fine, but the higher truth is Allah does everything, and "All is from God" as it says.
Yes, our opposition or our friendship is from Allah and by Allah and written by Allah, go look at all the evidences from the Qur'an I showed in that link if you can (and of course if you don't, it just means Allah didn't let you, and if you do, it means Allah made you, but this is the higher truth, on the immediate level we can say you did this or you did that, and that is true too).
No I am not rebelling against Allah's will no one can rebel against Allah or oppose Allah, Allah is the "Irresistible" who has pwoer over everything, but he is the one who "sets up enemies" to each other or "makes friends" between people, and there are quotes I provided showing the enemies version, and here is the quote about friends
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It may be that Allah will ordain love between you and those of them with whom ye are at enmity. Allah is Mighty, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.3021
And one of His signs is that He created mates for you from yourselves that you may find rest in them, and He put between you love and compassion; most surely there are signs in this for a people who reflect.3103
And hold fast, all together, unto the bond with God, and do not draw apart from one another. And remember the blessings which God has bestowed upon you how, when you were enemies, He brought your hearts together, so that through His blessing you became brethren; and you were on the brink of a fiery abyss. He saved you from it. In this way God makes clear His messages unto you, so that you might find guidance,
No, I think you don't understand. If you look at the quotes I provided, you are not debunking anything at all. Opposing you is not opposing God just because God is the one creating the opposition and the conflict between us, Allah is doing both of them, just like in a book one might write "Then the two armies battled, and Samira was the victor, and FreedomStands was defeated and laid low", but that doesn't mean I was opposing God really, no one can oppose the will of God, God is creating this story, this information, that I am telling you what I am telling you, and you are doing what you are doing, and on the immediate level you may do this or that, and you may come to understand, but on the higher level it was Allah who made you understand or kept you ignorant of it, I am not defying Allah just because Allah has set you up as an enemy for now, if you look at the quotes I provided it makes it really clear.
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I am not contradicting myself, you are right that if you lose, your loss is by Allah, the Qur'an makes that clear if you're allowed to read my posts ever.
No I am not getting irritated for no reason, my irritation comes from Allah, my hatred comes from Allah, my laughter and my tears ultimately, but on the immediate level there are "appearances" of "causes", but Allah is the one creating every single aspect of information in existence
Okay, cool.
no one can oppose the will of God, God is creating this story, this information, that I am telling you what I am telling you, and you are doing what you are doing, and on the immediate level you may do this or that, and you may come to understand, but on the higher level it was Allah who made you understand or kept you ignorant of it, I am not defying Allah just because Allah has set you up as an enemy for now
Alright. So I am doing what I am doing. I really don't see the point of Allah then doing all this except because he was bored earlier and wants to create a giant living roleplay.
Dadada.
Meow meow meow.
Bibooba.
Fidodido.And no, it's not really me who said the above, it's Allah behind the scenes who made me, as according to the interpretation you have regarding the verses.
Choo choo train.
Peace.
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Freedom,
Interpretation from traditional sectarian sources is more often than not very lackluster. Besides, you over-apply the God's will rule at the cost of coherence. You also leave out logic of other passages to prove your point from the passages that you copy-paste on the forum. I told you that your logic is flawed. The most important is that there is ultimately no reason for us to be in this world if things are according to your reasoning. God would simply be letting us be voodoo dolls in some barbaric experiment for entertainment that has no practical use.
I think your tone is overall starting to turn more aggressive and unfriendly and do you think God is behaving this way?
Your point of view probably makes one miss out on important matters through the fixation that God is the only thing that matter. The behavioral part of faith is the essence of it. But in your reasoning there is no reason to do any good because God is master over you so you cannot do it on your own volition.
Except from that you have basically not come up with anything useful for the past 24 hours as far as I know. We are just going around on the same circular reasoning the whole day and I spelled out big logical issues with your stance.
Do I really have to begin copy-pasting myself to show how inconsistent the claims are?
Salaam
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Okay, cool.
Alright. So I am doing what I am doing. I really don't see the point of Allah then doing all this except because he was bored earlier and wants to create a giant living roleplay.
Dadada.
Meow meow meow.
Bibooba.
Fidodido.And no, it's not really me who said the above, it's Allah behind the scenes who made me, as according to the interpretation you have regarding the verses.
Choo choo train.
Peace.
Most of what you said is right, but what do you mean by "point"? Why does everyone say "point"? The "point" is explained, Allah creates whatever Allah wills. Allah does not get "bored" because Allah does not have "needs" or "lack", such as the way you are made to feel bored because you are given the feeling you are missing some satisfaction or whatever. Allah freely generated information as Allah wills. Allah is unconditioned, that means that "bored" would be a condition upon Allah inflicted from some other greater source, and what I am speaking of is whatever is Ultimate and has nothing conditioning it, so there is no boredom for Allah, just Allah creating whatever Allah wants to create. Humans and their "experience of boredom" are just some of the creations of Allah, there are things you do not know which Allah has created which are entirely different.
If you create a sculpture out of clay, does it move on its own and start to speak to you? No, you move it around if it is going to move it around. Allah even said He animated you, put in the Animating Spirit, he Animates everything absolutely.
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Art thou not aware that it is God who causes the clouds to move onward, then joins them together, then piles them up in masses, until thou can see rain come forth from their midst? And He it is who sends down from the skies, by degrees, mountainous masses charged with hail, striking therewith whomever He wills and averting it from whomever He wills, the flash of His lightning well-nigh deprives sight!
It is God who causes night and day to alternate in this , behold, there is surely a lesson for all who have eyes to see!
And it is God who has created all animals out of water; and among them are such as crawl on their bellies, and such as walk on two legs, and such as walk on four. God creates what He will for, verily, God has the power to will anything.
Verily We have sent down revelations and explained them. Allah guideth whom He will unto a straight path.
For, they say, ?We believe in God and in the Apostle, and we pay heed!? - but then, some of them turn away after this and these are by no means believers.
And whenever they are summoned unto God and His Apostle in order that might decide between them, lo! some of them turn away;
but if the truth happens to be to their liking, they are quite willing to accept it!
Is there in their hearts a disease, or have they doubts, or fear they lest Allah and His messenger should wrong them in judgment? Nay, but such are evil-doers. (creation called "evil-doers)
The saying of (all true) believers when they appeal unto Allah and His messenger to judge between them is only that they say We hear and we obey. And such are the successful. (the creation who will be "successful" Allah is plotting out the story)
for, they who pay heed unto God and His Apostle, and stand in awe of God and are conscious of Him, it is they, they who shall triumph !
They swear by Allah solemnly that, if thou order them, they will go forth. Say Swear not; known obedience (is better). Lo! Allah is Informed of what ye do.
Say Obey Allah and obey the messenger. But if ye turn away, then (it is) for him (to do) only that wherewith he hath been charged, and for you (to do) only that wherewith ye have been charged. If ye obey him, ye will go aright. But the messenger hath no other charge than to convey (the message) plainly.
Allah hath promised such of you as believe and do good work that He will surely make them to succeed (the present rulers) in the earth even as He caused those who were before them to succeed (others); and that He will surely establish for them their religion which He hath approved for them, and will give them in exchange safety after their fear. They serve Me. They ascribe no thing as partner unto Me. Those who disbelieve henceforth, they are the miscreants.
Establish worship and pay the poor-due and obey the messenger, that haply ye may find mercy.
Think not that the disbelievers can escape in the land. Fire will be their home - a hapless journey's end!
Isaiah 459
"Woe to the one who quarrels with his Maker-- An earthenware vessel among the vessels of earth! Will the clay say to the potter, 'What are you doing?' Or the thing you are making say, 'He has no hands '?Romans 920
But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?'"Romans 921
Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?Job 912
If he snatches away, who can stop him? Who can say to him, 'What are you doing?'Matthew 44
But he answered, ?It is written, ??Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.??Deuteronomy 83
He humbled you, causing you to hunger and then feeding you with manna, which neither you nor your ancestors had known, to teach you that man does not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of the LORD.Exodus 101
Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the hearts of his officials so that I may perform these signs of mine among themRomans 918
Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.Exodus 713
Yet Pharaoh's heart became hard and he would not listen to them, just as the LORD had said.Lamentations 338
Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that both calamities and good things come?Job 210
He replied, "You are talking like a foolish woman. Shall we accept good from God, and not trouble?" In all this, Job did not sin in what he said.Isaiah 457
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.2 Thessalonians 211
Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false,Judges 923
God stirred up animosity between Abimelek and the citizens of Shechem so that they acted treacherously against Abimelek.1 Samuel 1614
Now the Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD tormented him.1 Kings 2223
"So now the LORD has put a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you."Ezekiel 149
"'And if the prophet is enticed to utter a prophecy, I the LORD have enticed that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand against him and destroy him from among my people Israel.Some Extra
Exodus 421
The LORD said to Moses, "When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go.Exodus 73
But I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and though I multiply my signs and wonders in Egypt,Exodus 912
But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said to Moses.Exodus 101
Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the hearts of his officials so that I may perform these signs of mine among themExodus 1020
But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let the Israelites go.Exodus 1027
But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he was not willing to let them go.Exodus 1110
Moses and Aaron performed all these wonders before Pharaoh, but the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let the Israelites go out of his country.Exodus 144
And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and he will pursue them. But I will gain glory for myself through Pharaoh and all his army, and the Egyptians will know that I am the LORD." So the Israelites did this.Exodus 1417
I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians so that they will go in after them. And I will gain glory through Pharaoh and all his army, through his chariots and his horsemen.Deuteronomy 230
But Sihon king of Heshbon refused to let us pass through. For the LORD your God had made his spirit stubborn and his heart obstinate in order to give him into your hands, as he has now done.Joshua 1120
For it was the LORD himself who hardened their hearts to wage war against Israel, so that he might destroy them totally, exterminating them without mercy, as the LORD had commanded Moses. -
Most of what you said is right, but what do you mean by "point"? Why does everyone say "point"? The "point" is explained, Allah creates whatever Allah wills. Allah does not get "bored" because Allah does not have "needs" or "lack", such as the way you are made to feel bored because you are given the feeling you are missing some satisfaction or whatever. Allah freely generated information as Allah wills. Allah is unconditioned, that means that "bored" would be a condition upon Allah inflicted from some other greater source, and what I am speaking of is whatever is Ultimate and has nothing conditioning it, so there is no boredom for Allah, just Allah creating whatever Allah wants to create. Humans and their "experience of boredom" are just some of the creations of Allah, there are things you do not know which Allah has created which are entirely different.
Alright.
Yadda yadda yadda.
I can feel myself making full use of my free will though when I speak or act. Some of it may have been predetermined, but it makes no sense that all of it is. Otherwise I can just sit here and say "bhaw bhaw" all day long and put it all on Allah for making me do so.
Peace.
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Freedom,
Interpretation from traditional sectarian sources is more often than not very lackluster. Besides, you over-apply the God's will rule at the cost of coherence. You also leave out logic of other passages to prove your point from the passages that you copy-paste on the forum. I told you that your logic is flawed. The most important is that there is ultimately no reason for us to be in this world if things are according to your reasoning. God would simply be letting us be voodoo dolls in some barbaric experiment for entertainment that has no practical use.
I think your tone is overall starting to turn more aggressive and unfriendly and do you think God is behaving this way?
Your point of view probably makes one miss out on important matters through the fixation that God is the only thing that matter. The behavioral part of faith is the essence of it. But in your reasoning there is no reason to do any good because God is master over you so you cannot do it on your own volition.
Except from that you have basically not come up with anything useful for the past 24 hours as far as I know. We are just going around on the same circular reasoning the whole day and I spelled out big logical issues with your stance.
Do I really have to begin copy-pasting myself to show how inconsistent the claims are?
Salaam
Please do, because they are not illogical or nor are they contradictory to anything. It appears as though you might not be reading them at all because you simply don't want to believe it.
- God wills everything and has power over everything.
- What you perceive as your will is actually the will of God, even if you don't know it.
- God creates whatever he wills (all information, and information includes your thoughts and activities and "what you are" and also "what you will be" just like God develops you in the fetus and then develops you into an adult, and develops you into a king or a pauper or a killer or whatever other "being" or "existence" or "way" God has created for his creation, you are just whatever God tells you you are.
- I am not saying "don't strive" and so it is pretty silly that you keep implying that, I am saying on the immediate level we perceive and make decisions based on the information we are receiving, but on the greater level no matter what it was always the will of God and not our own power or will, this doesn't change at all that you have to strive and all the same messages, just knowing that it is God who is doing it in the end is not going to make it seem like you have no will, that thing you perceive as your will is so intertwined that you can not even tell that it is actually God feeding you the information, it doesn't matter, you still have to do what you will do.
Nothing in this is inconsistent or illogical. It is illogical to say that God created something that God is unhappy with or it is not as God wills, or that God created matter and the body and wants people to leave matter and the body when God made it for them, and it is illogical to say God leaves it up to chance of who will do this or who will be that as if chance has any existence or power on its own, or as if clay vessels can move on their own, it is God animating us all. God writes the book, the whole story, have you not heard of the author of your life, or are you that author who will save yourself? Such is not a humble view.
Your perceiving me as getting aggressive or whatever might just be your own imagination, or it might be real, I have no idea, but right now I was just eating fruit loops and enjoying finding those quotes from the Bible.
Just because God is the author of life and you live by the words that God dictates, does not mean you do not in the immediate level of all these fake things like "time" and "free will" and whatever else, that you must not strive, I have never said "just lay back and do nothing" I was saying that "if you lay back and do nothing, it is because God has made you lay back and do nothing" ultimately, that is "if you are a fool, God has made a fool of you".
Nothing is inconsistent in what I am saying, all the religions say it too, its a normal idea, and its also logical. It is not logical to say that something slipped out of God's hand, that God created a thing for a purpose and that purpose is not achieved, that God doesn't create things which perfectly obey when everything perfectly obeys God, that you command God and God follows after your command and you choose what God creates for you, and all those blasphemies.
It is a very basic idea, if you can't handle the idea, just focus on how you must strive, I never said don't strive, on the immediate level it appears we must, but on the higher level God is writing and willing whatever we end up actually doing.
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Say Nothing will afflict us save what Allah has ordained for us; He is our Patron; and on Allah let the believers rely. -
Well Kafir is pharoah and his mates. Repeated over and over.
the sun and moon and stars and prophets arent.
wealth and children r a ornament.
The point was, Allah brought into existence every moment all of those things, Pharoah didn't create himself, didn't make himself Pharoah, didn't make himself this character in the story, didn't write the book, didn't get blinded or hardened, but was created to be an example and created exactly how he was by Allah ultimately.
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Alright.
Yadda yadda yadda.
I can feel myself making full use of my free will though when I speak or act. Some of it may have been predetermined, but it makes no sense that all of it is. Otherwise I can just sit here and say "bhaw bhaw" all day long and put it all on Allah for making me do so.
Peace.
Why is it so hard to process? If you do that, or if you do this, or if you do another thing, ultimately that was the will of Allah, but on the immediate level you definitely have all the appearance of free choice, and should use it to do good for yourself rather than bad. It is very simple.
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Why is it so hard to process? If you do that, or if you do this, or if you do another thing, ultimately that was the will of Allah, but on the immediate level you definitely have all the appearance of free choice, and should use it to do good for yourself rather than bad. It is very simple.
Why should it bother you what is hard to process by me anyway? Because ultimately according to you we have no free will and it is Allah pulling the reins. So even the concept of something being hard to grasp is due to Allah then and not from me, apparently.
Peace.
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Why should it bother you what is hard to process by me anyway? Because ultimately according to you we have no free will and it is Allah pulling the reins. So even the concept of something being hard to grasp is due to Allah then and not from me, apparently.
Peace.
Absolutely! What you say is correct, even though you might be saying it mockingly. Even our anger, our sadness, and everything else is from Allah, even the frustration one might experience, and our prayer to not be frustrated, etc and there are some who are given the realization of this total state of Surrender and some are not, but it doesn't change the striving or anything on the immediate level, it just gives some comfort when one realizes as well as fear considering what experiences Allah can make us experience!
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and that it is He alone who causes to laugh and to weep; -
Absolutely! What you say is correct, even though you might be saying it mockingly.
My mocking is also from Allah apparently.
Peace.
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My mocking is also from Allah apparently.
Peace.
I know, you're absolutely right.
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My mocking is also from Allah apparently.
Peace.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607118.msg361787#msg361787
As you can see here, after many of the bolded sections it says "We have made enemies" "We have set up enemies" and stuff like that.
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Trust me Freedom, I have read both Quran and the Biblical scriptures enough times that you do not have to copy-paste so many passages to prove something that you misunderstand.
Salaam
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Trust me Freedom, I have read both Quran and the Biblical scriptures enough times that you do not have to copy-paste so many passages to prove something that you misunderstand.
Salaam
So you didn't care to look at them anymore? Are you so sure I misunderstand? Well, it may be that I misunderstand, so please do help my understand!
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http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607118.msg361787#msg361787
As you can see here, after many of the bolded sections it says "We have made enemies" "We have set up enemies" and stuff like that.
Alright. But that's upto Allah's will apparently, whether you like it or not. Since I can't really personally do anything about it and only Allah can (since he was controlling us in the first place, throughout), I will remain as I am.
Peace.
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If you are not God, you do not know that.
Salaam
That is what people are having so much trouble with regarding what I am telling them.
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Alright. But that's upto Allah's will apparently, whether you like it or not. Since I can't really personally do anything about it and only Allah can (since he was controlling us in the first place, throughout), I will remain as I am.
Peace.
You will do whatever you will do, and what you should do is try your best, and yes, as you said, you will never be able to actually do it but only if Allah wills, so if Allah wills you will will it and accomplish whatever you accomplish. It is quite simple, but some people are not allowed to understand it seems.