Hot/"ramadan" Answer
-
Salam
Summer starts her from june and July & Augusts are the hotest months over here, there is also a ban on A ban on labourers working in the hot afternoon sun from 1230 PM till 430 Pm in these two months.
It is September and still very hot.peace
If Rammadan starts in June 25, according to Ayman;
and if Rammdan is the starter of the 4 restricted months;
Then, Verse 9-81 had to be in October.If you look deeply in verse 9-81, you will note that they were complaining from going to war in Summer Season; as you know going to war in the days of prophet is different than our days. It will involve traveling that might take a month, and it will involve weeks of fighting untill some one would win.
In 9-81, they were complaining about doing all the above in Heat time (summer time). Trust me,if it was september, as you said (how did you calculate) they would have never use that reason, knowning that the next two or three month will be not as hot. -
Salaam
Afridi,Thank you for this information. So if the hottest months are June, July and August then, as we learn from 981, the war was in one of the hot months, after the sacred months; in other words, at least 3 months had passed since Ramadan, according to Ayman's theory.
Now work it out yourself when was Ramadan?
peace
Muharam is the first and Ramadan is the ninth month
salam farida
The Islamic months are named as follows
Muharram (or Muarram al aram)
Safar (or afar al Muzaffar)
Rabi' al-awwal (Rab' I)
Rabi' al-thani (or Rab' al Thn, or Rab' al-Akhir) (Rab' II)
Jumada al-awwal (Jumd I)
Jumada al-thani (or Jumd al-akhir) (Jumd II)
Rajab (or Rajab al Murajab)
Sha'aban (or Sha'abn al Moazam)
Ramadan (or Ramzn, long form Raman al Mubarak)
Shawwal (or Shawwal al Mukarram)
Dhu al-Qi'dah
Dhu al-HijjahThe three successive forbidden months mentioned by Muhammad (months in which battles are forbidden) are Dhu al-Qi'dah, Dhu al-Hijjah, and Muharram, thus excluding an intercalary month before Muharram. The single forbidden month is Rajab. These months were considered forbidden both within the new Islamic calendar and within the old pagan Meccan calendar, although whether they maintained their "forbidden" status after the conquest of Mecca has been disputed among Islamic scholars.
peace
-
Muharam is the first and Ramadan is the ninth month
salam farida
The Islamic months are named as follows
Muharram (or Muarram al aram)
Safar (or afar al Muzaffar)
Rabi' al-awwal (Rab' I)
Rabi' al-thani (or Rab' al Thn, or Rab' al-Akhir) (Rab' II)
Jumada al-awwal (Jumd I)
Jumada al-thani (or Jumd al-akhir) (Jumd II)
Rajab (or Rajab al Murajab)
Sha'aban (or Sha'abn al Moazam)
Ramadan (or Ramzn, long form Raman al Mubarak)
Shawwal (or Shawwal al Mukarram)
Dhu al-Qi'dah
Dhu al-HijjahThe three successive forbidden months mentioned by Muhammad (months in which battles are forbidden) are Dhu al-Qi'dah, Dhu al-Hijjah, and Muharram, thus excluding an intercalary month before Muharram. The single forbidden month is Rajab. These months were considered forbidden both within the new Islamic calendar and within the old pagan Meccan calendar, although whether they maintained their "forbidden" status after the conquest of Mecca has been disputed among Islamic scholars.
peace
Salaam Afridi
At the moment we are working on Ayman's theroy and not the forbidden months you stated above. I am trying to ascertain when Ramadan could be, if the fighting took place in hot weather.
Bilalhammd is showing that, if we apply Aymans thery, the forbiden months are not in the hot months as the surah indicates.
I hope this helps
peace -
Peace all,
This is false. Idiomatic usage of a word doesn't change the basic meaning of the word. For example, when one says "hit the road", this doesn't change the meaning of "hit" to "travel". The idiomatic expression as whole is interpreted through cultural nuances as "travel" but linguistically the basic meaning of the word "hit" is the same. The word "MaNAZL" always means something that one descends to. The relationship between the form NZL and MaNAZL is fairly common in the Arabic language, for example, think SJD and MaSAJD, DRS and MaDARS. No one with a grain of common sense would claim that MaDARS can actually mean a place for ignorance (the opposite of study like ascending is the opposite of descending).
Peace,
Ayman
Salaam Ayman,
I notice you have been ignoring my posts of late. If, in any way, I have offended you please understand it was not malicious but sometimes, in order to reach a conclusion, one needs to be frank and straightforward.
I would like to thank you for inviting me to take part in this discussion, and let me tell you it has been the most productive ten day of the month of Ramadan for me, and a lot of the credit goes to you for making us find out the truth ourselves.Best regards
farida -
I just got a ? (2)
Is this the month OF hotness or not?
In other words, is this the moon of redness or not?
iN OTHER WORDS IS IT THE THE TIME OF FASTING OR NOT?
laugh laugh laugh What are you saying anthonywallace, I cant stop laughing. laugh
laugh
No it is not he month of hotness
No it is not he moon of redness
hmm It is the time of fastness laugh laugh laugh -
981 Those who have remained are happy with their position of lagging behind God's messenger, and they disliked striving with their wealth and lives in the cause of God; and they say "Do not mobilize in the heat." Say "The fire of Hell is far hotter," if they could only understand.
Salaam allCould it be that they were just trying to find an excuse, and that they were just lying and it was not really hot? The verse gives us their real intention, so what they were saying was not true. If it was really hot (imagine the heat of the desert during summer), wouldn't that be a reasonable excuse?
-
981 Those who have remained are happy with their position of lagging behind God's messenger, and they disliked striving with their wealth and lives in the cause of God; and they say "Do not mobilize in the heat." Say "The fire of Hell is far hotter," if they could only understand.
Salaam allCould it be that they were just trying to find an excuse, and that they were just lying and it was not really hot? The verse gives us their real intention, so what they were saying was not true. If it was really hot (imagine the heat of the desert during summer), wouldn't that be a reasonable excuse?
nope
Samia, God would have said that, but instead He confirmed that it was Hot by saying "The fire of Hell is far hotter," if they could only understand.
God is given us a hint that it was Summer time.
Do not try to save Ayman Theory using twisted prove -
Salaam Afridi
At the moment we are working on Ayman's theroy and not the forbidden months you stated above. I am trying to ascertain when Ramadan could be, if the fighting took place in hot weather.
Bilalhammd is showing that, if we apply Aymans thery, the forbiden months are not in the hot months as the surah indicates.
I hope this helps
peaceThsat calendar can help you in Ayman theory
peace
-
Thsat calendar can help you in Ayman theory
peace
Salaam Afridi,
671 Say "Shall we indeed call on others besides Allah,- things that can do us neither good nor harm,- and turn on our heels after receiving guidance from Allah? - like one whom the evil ones have made into a fool, wandering bewildered through the earth, his friends calling, 'come to us', (vainly) guiding him to the path." Say "Allah's guidance is the (only) guidance, and we have been directed to SUBMIT ourselves to the Lord of the worlds;-
3200O you who believe, be patient and call for patience, and bond together and revere God that you may succeed
peace
-
Do not try to save Ayman Theory using twisted prove
Salaam belal
Please don't be silly, I am not sharing yours or Ayman's understanding of fasting, let alone when. And please do not turn a discusion into duel camps the camp of Ayman and the camp of belal or whoever....
Moreover, why shouldn't you consider all possibilities and eliminate them with a strong proof? "God could have said that" does not mean God said the opposite, and He does not "have to say" that. He did not say they were lying, so can you say that they were not lying because God did not say that when He "would have said that"?
-
Peace Ayman,
What i said is completely true. Idiomatic usage CAN INDEED change the meaning of a word over time. Take for example like you said 'to hit the road.' That condensed into 'to hit it' as in 'to get out/to leave' and from that you can say 'we are going to hit los angeles, san fransisco and San antonio on this trip.' To hit now means 'to travel to.' So orignally this was not hit's meaning. But idiomatic usage gave the word new meaning OVER TIME (key word being OVER TIME). There are plenty of examples of this in all langauges. I'll see if I can dig up some more.
But here is the problem, this is talking etymology and we are not talking etymology here with nzl. I gave some etymological reasons for why the word has meanings that seem to be separate from it's base meaning to descend, but the word is what it is now. It has all of those meanings and there is an etymological reason behind it. Idiomatic usage is the prime suspect. But at this point it is not an idiom but a certified meaning of the word.
Furthermore manAZIL like I stated before is a plural for manzil. Which mean literally place of descent. Madras/madrasah/pl. MaDARIS means place of study, masjid/maSAJID measn place of paying homage, i.e. worship. the form is maf3il/maf3al singular and mafA3IL plural. You don't have to explain Arabic to me. Unless you are trying to teach something in your dialect to me, keep the lessons to yourself please. From our conversations I think I know more about Arabic then you are willing to know.
Godbless,
AnwarThis is false. Idiomatic usage of a word doesn't change the basic meaning of the word. For example, when one says "hit the road", this doesn't change the meaning of "hit" to "travel". The idiomatic expression as whole is interpreted through cultural nuances as "travel" but linguistically the basic meaning of the word "hit" is the same. The word "MaNAZL" always means something that one descends to. The relationship between the form NZL and MaNAZL is fairly common in the Arabic language, for example, think SJD and MaSAJD, DRS and MaDARS. No one with a grain of common sense would claim that MaDARS can actually mean a place for ignorance (the opposite of study like ascending is the opposite of descending).
Peace,
Ayman
-
Peace,
I would also like to point out that the connection between colors and the concept of scorching is a fallacy, and is not true to all cultures. Flames can be reddish, whitish or even bluish. In English we have the phrase to to burn white hot. Because really high fires tend to be more white than red. Alchohol burns blue. I just don't think it is an absolute thing to say because something is red we can connect that with the concept of scorching. Scorched bones and other things in the sun get bleached white. Fir even chars things and turns them black. So i don't buy this basic connection between a reddish moon and the concept of very hot. I've seen red moons in the fall. I think here in the states red moons are mostly associated with fall and fall colors. Just my take, I think it is a fallacious argument. Not to mention that shahr has all kinds of meanings, from month to plain old moon, to crescent moon. hilaal means moon stage and can even mean a full moon. I think I showed along time ago that if we take the Quranic concept of day from sunrise to sunrise using the dictionry meaning of a shahr as 29 islamic days, it equals 30 of the quranic days. Islamic days are from sunset to sunset. So when a day begins at night in the Islamic system the first day has already begun sunrise that same day in the Quranic system. That creates an extra day in the Quranic system whereas in the Islamic system it stays 29 days. If you count out 30 sunrise to sunrise Quranic days you get 29 sunset to sunset islamiic days within them. Everyone can try it. Use Q for Quranic days and I for Islamic days, then count the Q and I's
Q =Quranic day and I = Islamic day Only thinking minds should dare to attempt this.Begiiiin Counting!
Sunrise(1st) Sunset(1st) Q I Q I Q I Q I Q I Q I Q I Q I Q I Q I Q I Q I Q I Q I Q I Q I Q I Q I Q I Q I Q I Q I Q I Q I Q I Q I Q I Q I Q I Q
Conclusion 29I = 30Q. In English that is 29 Islamic days equals 30 Quranic days.
I set it up this way because from sunrise (1st) to the first Q is the completion of the first Quranic day so start counting from 1 at the first Q. From Sunset(1st) to the first I is the completion of the first Islamic day. You will see that every Quranic day has a sunset in it and every Islamic day has a sunrise in it. This is all the proof I need to show you that 30 days is also a shahr.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace Nun,
How do we witness/know which of the four phases is full moon?
In addition to our brains being programmed to make the solstice moon appear bigger, our brains are programmed to appreciate symmetry. We even associate symmetry with beauty. The full moon will be symmetric. This is how we all know a full moon when we see one. On the other hand, how many of us have actually seen the new-moon? I bet none.
Peace,
Ayman
-
Peace Samia,
981 Those who have remained are happy with their position of lagging behind God's messenger, and they disliked striving with their wealth and lives in the cause of God; and they say "Do not mobilize in the heat." Say "The fire of Hell is far hotter," if they could only understand.
Could it be that they were just trying to find an excuse, and that they were just lying and it was not really hot? The verse gives us their real intention, so what they were saying was not true. If it was really hot (imagine the heat of the desert during summer), wouldn't that be a reasonable excuse?I don't believe that it would be a reasonable excuse because the enemy would equally be affected by the heat. The main issue is that between 95 and 981 a lot of things have happened. There is no evidence that 981 immediately follows 95. If one uses the logic that the passages from 95 to 981 are arranged in a way that they immediately follow one another chronologically then this means that the battle in 925-26 happened before 981 and so did the event in 940. So either way, the idea that the events described in 981 immediately followed 95 is completely baseless. Months could have passed between the two. Fighting is allowed during the inviolable full-moons as per 2217.
Here are the facts
- A chapter of the great reading was descended (986) during this hot time of the year (981).
- The great reading was descended on the night of measure which is also called "shahr ramadan".
Based on 1 and 2 above the night of measure and "shahr ramadan" occur during the hot time of the year.
I hope this helps.
Peace,
Ayman
-
Peace Anwar,
Furthermore manAZIL like I stated before is a plural for manzil. Which mean literally place of descent. Madras/madrasah/pl. MaDARIS means place of study, masjid/maSAJID measn place of paying homage, i.e. worship. the form is maf3il/maf3al singular and mafA3IL plural. You don't have to explain Arabic to me. Unless you are trying to teach something in your dialect to me, keep the lessons to yourself please. From our conversations I think I know more about Arabic then you are willing to know.
As I said, no one with a grain of common sense would claim that MaDARS can actually mean a place for ignorance like you claimed that MaNAZL can be a place of ascending.
As for knowing Arabic, what you know is Classical Arabic, a theoretical idealized language of post-quranic literature that no one ever actually spoke. This is not only my opinion at this stage but this is what gradually the Arabic language research community is beginning to realize.
This is why you are unable to provide the "plain truth" as you claimed here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9596565.msg170452#msg170452
Peace,
Ayman
-
Peace,
Ayman, stop your manipulating and untruths. You have been spreading these untruths for too long. I don't know a theorized language I know a real one. Go back as far as you can and read anythin and it is all in what you call a theorized language. All of it. Even the Quran is in this so-called theorized language written with every case ending and even pronounced with them. That is proof that your ideas are the theories here, the false theories at that. You suffer from the epidemic Arab mentality of not being able to distinguish the evolution of the Arab language and the Arab people. And you don't even know your own dialect well enough to distinguish it and what it really is. For you it is all a conspiracy. Guess what, no one conspires to evolve languages they just do that. You can only get an audience on an internet forum like free-minds for these crazy ideas. And only ignorant Arabs can put forth or believe these untruths. Educated Arabs know better. Maybe that will set all the other ignorant individuals in motion here but the truth is that your camp is one of untruth and lies. You can only form your opinions by fabricating historical conspiracies and defaming dictionaries. The intelligent laugh at this, the ignorant actually take you serious. I am all for unorthodox, but unintelligent and uneducated . . . NEVER.
So here is your main lie here
As I said, no one with a grain of common sense would claim that MaDARS can actually mean a place for ignorance like you claimed that MaNAZL can be a place of ascending.
I gave you an explanation for why the word came to mean any general stage. It is an etymological explaination and it is admittedly an educated guess. You have always looked at things upside down which is why you come up with these cooky conclusions. Can you explain to me why someone's mawqi3 (remember root word is to fall) can be up in a tower that that they had to ascend to get there? Now if I say that the person's mawqi3 is up in a tower am I claiming that mawqi3 means a place of ascension? HELL NO! Likewise I am not claiming what you are falsely accusing me of. And if you beleve that that is what I think then you have a brain problem.
Now here's the main piont. We have to accept that mawqi3 like manzil has come to mean location and stage despite their (most likely) original meanings of descent and not ascent. Now if we want to guess how manzil and mawqi3 acquired these meanings (location and stage) that are indifferent of ascent or descent then we can go into some eytmological reasonings and probably propose ARCHAIC idiomatic usage of the word that allowed for it to EVOLVE into a totally separate meaning from its (most likely) original root meaing. So stop being foolish Ayman and acting like this upside-down, inside-out logic you use is going to get you anywhere.
You seem to be the only one theorizing on the Arabic language here with your shahr as ONLY full moon (ignoring all of the other meanings) and manaazil as descending phases of the moon. Give me a break! I think it is mighty big of everyone here to even be entertaining these fallacies of yours. All in the name of Free minds. But then you'll probably start talking about my Anwar-months, etc. etc. But the proof is in my previous post. And I don't have to ignore or pidgeon-hole meanings to come to my conclusions.
It's obvious to me that you don't even pay attention when you read the Quran. Just from our last conversation if you would pay attention to all of th spelling conventions used in the Quran that include case endings by using alif, waw and yaa, you would back off of half of these crazy conclusions of yours. You haven't studied language in general, and the Arabic language in particular, or even thought about it enough to propose half of the things you propose here.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace,
I guess another never-ending free-minds battle has been started. I'm sorry I have to speak the truth and denounce untruths. But I'm sorry for the virulent discourse that will follow this, zap my energy and waste my time for the next couple of weeks at the very least.
I'm hoping God shows me the worth of Free-minds some day. Because I only stay on here to help people understand things they don't. But most times people don't want help understanding anything they just want people to accept their ridiculous ideas because they are different, non-conformist, anti-establishment or radical. Woe to the rebellious! God is MOST GREAT!
Godbless,
Anwar -
Salaam everyone,
I am writing to bow out of this thread about Hot/Ramadan, as my journey was to find out the truth for myself and I have strong proofs from the Qur?an to believe that;
?Amongst those who witnessed? the month of Ramadan include all those who are present in this month and can perceive with their ears their eyes and their skins.
More importantly the month of Ramadan is not confined to the months of extreme heat.
If we say that 181 has no relevance to the earlier verse 91-5 still the fighting must be going on either after the sacred months or before the sacred months, but the fight was not during Ramadan as, according to Ayman, Ramadan is one of the sacred months..
The war in the past did not last for six days or so; it involved a long period of time Now it is for everyone here who wants to find out truth to work it out for themselves. We are all answerable to Allah for our own deeds.Even though ?the astro calculations of the movements of the heavenly bodies conforms with precise modern day calculations done by astro physicists and scientists and astro researchers? (Sibute ) the solstice moon has no bearing on ascertaining the month of Ramadan.
Thanks to Nun de plume for this very valid question;
How do we witness/know which of the four phases is full moon?
...seeing each of those four moons individually (don't have luxury to compare next to each other) -- how would be able to tell which is the full moon with less than .3% Illuminated Phase difference?Whoever feels a need to eliminate more possibilities, obstructing the truth, it?s their prerogative. I am not going to invest any more of my time in this thread.
?I am out?
-
Moreover, why shouldn't you consider all possibilities and eliminate them with a strong proof? "God could have said that" does not mean God said the opposite, and He does not "have to say" that. He did not say they were lying, so can you say that they were not lying because God did not say that when He "would have said that"?
Salaam Samia,
Please read the following verses and see if they pertain to your antics.
268 They said, "Call upon your Lord to show us which one." He said, "He says that she is a heifer that is neither too old, nor too young; of an intermediate age. Now, carry out what you are commanded to do."
269 They said "Call upon your Lord for us that He may clarify what color it is." He said "He says it is a yellow heifer with a strong color, pleasing to those who see it."
270 They said, "Call upon your Lord to show us which one. The heifers look alike to us and, GOD willing, we will be guided."
271 He said, "He says that she is a heifer that was never humiliated in plowing the land or watering the crops; free from any blemish." They said, "Now you have brought the truth." They finally sacrificed her, after this lengthy reluctance
hmm
All the best
-
Salaam Samia,
Please read the following verses and see if they pertain to your antics.
268 They said, "Call upon your Lord to show us which one." He said, "He says that she is a heifer that is neither too old, nor too young; of an intermediate age. Now, carry out what you are commanded to do."
269 386 How can God guide a people who have rejected after believing, and they witnessed that the messenger is true, and the clarity had come to them? God does not guide the wicked people.
270 They said, "Call upon your Lord to show us which one. The heifers look alike to us and, GOD willing, we will be guided."
271 He said, "He says that she is a heifer that was never humiliated in plowing the land or watering the crops; free from any blemish." They said, "Now you have brought the truth." They finally sacrificed her, after this lengthy reluctance
hmm
All the best
Good verses farida,....
However this discussion is deeper than what I thought, and I will have to take my time to analize these posts further...
I have never really watched the moon phases and differences ect...and got into debth about the particular months the 4 months is ect...
But as of now, starting next year God willing, I will start my fast in august ( for it is the " hottest month. " that I know of, witness, and also feel over hear in Michigan )....unless my Lord guide me and forgive me, then I will surly be of those lost...