Hot/"ramadan" Answer

progod

Peace,

Belal, you used this verse as proof that manzil means any stage. However this word is munzal, and not manzil. Munzal is the verbal noun and place noun for form 4 anzala which is ' to cause to descend.' munzal means either making something descend (inzaal) or a place where something is made to descend (munzal). Manzil is where something descend on it's own.

(&#65279

Godbless,
Anwar

anthonywallace

4817 There is no burden on the blind, nor is there any burden on the cripple, nor is there on the sick any burden. And whosoever obeys God and His messenger, He will admit them into paradises with rivers flowing beneath; and whosoever turns away, He will punish him with a painful retribution

jedi

progod

Peace,

I want to respond to this

ma3duuda means few; 3adeeda means many. No context would change their meaning.
To those who can read Arabic (cut-and-paste from lisaanul 3arab)

. .

What I also find interesting in this quote the phrase about the ten days of Dhul Hijja

The first part of this definition is referring to the islamic ritual of Hajj and its names. The first meaning of the phrase al-ayyaamul-ma3doodaatu is a religious meaning connected to hajj rituals. Hence the day of nahr (the day of Immolation or slaughter) done on the 10 of dhul-hijjah. So this meaning is an islamic interpretation of the phrase. At the very least it is a religious pagan Arab interpretation of the phrase. In both cases the phrase DOES have literal meaning outside of these two non-Quranic religious contexts. Notice the religous interpretation of al-ayaam al-ma3loomaat that follows the first definition.

Now if we pay attention to what Zujaaj has to say in this citation he says that ma3dood is a count small or large. But he claims that alif, taa has diminutive properties. He cites durayhimaat (which is strange because durayhim is already the diminutive of dirham, and durayhimaat is plural. My guess is that the word is used exclusively in the meaning of a few small dirhams, exactly equalling daraahima qaleelatun). I'm not sure how Hammaamaat is diminutive.

But he then says that the alif ta may also be used for takthir, implying plurality.

On that level I would like to say that the dictionary is saying that ma3doodaat can be few (obviosly coming from it's use as numbered, i.e. limited) as well as plural implying many with no particular count involved.

As far as the female plural being used for plural inanimate objects. I'd like to point out that samawaat is referred to as hunna (229, and in Iraqi dialect inaminate plurals can still be reffered to as hin or hun, a leftover from Classical Arabic), ayyaam is refered to as ma3loomaat (280 is a singular female use and wouldn't fall under the diminutive possibility used in the above definition) and ma3doodaat on more than a few occasions in the Quran. A more nuetral and very common Quranic example is ayaaatun bayyinaatun (299).

With that said I'd like to clarify

In classical Arabic feminine plural can be used to describe plural inanimate objects.
Ma3dood, Ma3doodah, Ma3doodaaat (and even possibly ma3doodoona or ma3aadid or ma3aadeed) means numbered or counted primarily and literally. But it can take a diminutive meaning of 'few' through its meaning of numbered or limited. A good English example is 'your days are numbered.'
Ma3dood in no way ONLY means few.
The limitation of time as it concerns Ramadan and pilgrimage depends on the Quranic implication of shahr, and not the other way around.

Godbless,
Anwar

farida

4817 There is no burden on the blind, nor is there any burden on the cripple, nor is there on the sick any burden. And whosoever obeys God and His messenger, He will admit them into paradises with rivers flowing beneath; and whosoever turns away, He will punish him with a painful retribution

jedi

Salaam Anthony and everyone,

Indeed!! As I understand from the verse above, there is no undue expectations on the physically impaired and, performing within their capacity will earn them a reward on par with that of the able.

However the argument was ?how can one witness a month?? so it must, here, imply the scorching moon, "shahr ramadan".
As we learn from verses 4120, 21, 22, it is confirmed that the skin is capable of witnessing and will testify.
One can witness a month simply by being present in that month, as the skin is in touch with the atoms/molecules , water vapor mixture of gases, temperature etc., present at such a time. In this world one?s finger prints and DNA can also testify against a person, but just imagine a blind one saying to God, on the Day of Judgement, ?I did not witness the month of Ramadan?. His skin will then speak out against him.

b.? those amongst you who witnessed?? exclude only those who are mentally incapacitated.

These verses also made me realise that the deaf, the dumb and the blind are not excluded from testifying.
How does a deaf or dumb person bear witness?
By the use of eyes and skin, which would include using sign language, as well as employing writing tools. In both cases the skin is used to bear witness. Similarly a deaf person, capable of speaking, may use his sight and his lips/skin .
A blind person can use the skin (to feel with), along with the ears to witness and, regarding the month of Ramadan, a blind person has witnessed it simply by being present in his body, in that month .

This, in my opinion, is conclusive evidence, but I would welcome any input from others.

Peace,

In classical Arabic feminine plural can be used to describe plural inanimate objects.
Ma3dood, Ma3doodah, Ma3doodaaat (and even possibly ma3doodoona or ma3aadid or ma3aadeed) means numbered or counted primarily and literally. But it can take a diminutive meaning of 'few' through its meaning of numbered or limited. A good English example is 'your days are numbered.'
Ma3dood in no way ONLY means few.
The limitation of time as it concerns Ramadan and pilgrimage depends on the Quranic implication of shahr, and not the other way around.

Godbless,
Anwar

I hope we can now look into a timing device, using the sun and the moon, as a next step forward.

peace

belH

Peace,

Belal, you used this verse as proof that manzil means any stage. However this word is munzal, and not manzil. Munzal is the verbal noun and place noun for form 4 anzala which is ' to cause to descend.' munzal means either making something descend (inzaal) or a place where something is made to descend (munzal). Manzil is where something descend on it's own.

Godbless,
Anwar

Peace Anwar

How would you translate verse 10-5

(&#65279

Thanks

unknownuser

Peace everyone,

2185 Shahr Ramadan, which the Quran was descended in it

Which is Ramadan?

Solstice Moon Illusion June 16, 2008 Full Strawberry Moon or Rose Moon

http//science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008/images/moonillusion/Kasaitis1_strip.jpg

Harvest Moon - September

http//www.earthsky.org/images/13821.jpg

This is the full Moon that occurs closest to the autumn equinox. At the peak of harvest, farmers can work late into the night by the light of this Moon.

Hunter's Moon - October

http//www.nightskyinfo.com/sky_highlights/hunters_moon/full_moon_small.jpg

With the leaves falling and the deer fattened, it is time to hunt. Since the fields have been reaped, hunters can easily see fox and the animals which have come out to glean.

443 ?We descended it in a blessed night

971 ?We descended it in night Al-Qadr

973 Night Al-Qadr better than a thousand shahr

Better than 1000 full moons or 1000 months?

ayman

Peace Nun,

2185 Shahr Ramadan, which the Quran was descended in it
Which is Ramadan?
Solstice Moon Illusion June 16, 2008 Full Strawberry Moon or Rose Moon

Out of all the full-moons that you listed, the solstice moon takes the lowest path accross the horizon and thus has the most vivid reddish color and stays red the longest (thus the name strawberry/rose moon)

http//science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast14jun_1.htm

There are actually two solstice moons, the one right before the summer solstice and the one right after the summer solstice. So which one is it?

The word "ramadan"/scorching has two connotation (1) the color red (2) hot. Naturally, the solstice moon after the summer solstice would be the one that best fits those two criteria.

I hope this helps.

Peace,

Ayman

rsw

what if it's cloudy?

unknownuser

Peace rsw,

what if it's cloudy?

Same as if underground or cannot see. None are accountable for circumstances beyond their control.

btw, interesting reading your story in the other thread.

Peace Ayman,

Out of all the full-moons that you listed, the solstice moon takes the lowest path accross the horizon and thus has the most vivid reddish color and stays red the longest (thus the name strawberry/rose moon)

http//science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast14jun_1.htm

There are actually two solstice moons, the one right before the summer solstice and the one right after the summer solstice. So which one is it?

The word "ramadan"/scorching has two connotation (1) the color red (2) hot. Naturally, the solstice moon after the summer solstice would be the one that best fits those two criteria.

Yes when I first saw the huge moon it freaked me out; thought it was going to crash into earth.

Moonrise, Moonset and Moonphase for Saudi Arabia ? Makkah ? July 2008

http//www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/astronomy.html?n=151&month=7&year=2008&obj=moon&afl=-11&day=1

June 21 2008 Begins Summer in the Northern Hemisphere

Next full moon occurred 30 days later in day time...

Date Illuminated Phase

Jul 16, 2008 97.8%
Jul 17, 2008
Jul 18, 2008 99.8% Full at 1059 AM
Jul 19, 2008 99.7%
Jul 20, 2008 97.4%

How do we witness which night/day is Ramadan?

Also, its clear Quran was sent in a night 971 ?

973 the night Al-Qadr better than a thousand shahr

Was that ?night? (i.e. time sunset to dawn) better than a thousand full moon snapshots witnessed?

Or

Better than a thousand months (i.e. lunar cycles x 1000 = 80.852076 years or lifetime witnessed)?

These Google algorithms are smart.
http//www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1C1GGLS_en-USUS291&q=lunar+cycles+x+1000&btnG=Search

Peace

unknownuser

Peace Ayman,

To clarify a bit on the first question...

Next full moon occurred 30 days later in day time...

Date Illuminated Phase

Jul 16, 2008 97.8%
Jul 17, 2008
Jul 18, 2008 99.8% Full at 1059 AM
Jul 19, 2008 99.7%
Jul 20, 2008 97.4%

How do we witness/know which of the four phases is full moon?

http//s4.tinypic.com/24faadt.jpg

Learning Things
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=5riBjv3MZyU

Peace

adjwi

Peace all,

How do we witness/know which of the four phases is full moon?

Some time ago I noticed that the full moon rose after the sun set. I didn'it verify the illumination percentage but my hunch would be that the full moon with the highest percentage of illumination would be the night it rose after the sunset.

adjwi

anthonywallace

I just got a ? (2)

Is this the month OF hotness or not?

In other words, is this the moon of redness or not?

iN OTHER WORDS IS IT THE THE TIME OF FASTING OR NOT?

unknownuser

Peace adjwi,

Some time ago I noticed that the full moon rose after the sun set. I didn'it verify the illumination percentage but my hunch would be that the full moon with the highest percentage of illumination would be the night it rose after the sunset.

adjwi

Use link below and check the full moon for your area after June 21st and notice sometimes they appear in the daytime and varying hours as well.

Moonrise, Moonset and Moonphase for Saudi Arabia ? Makkah ? July 2008

http//www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/astronomy.html?n=151&month=7&year=2008&obj=moon&afl=-11&day=1
Jul 16, 2008 97.8%
Jul 17, 2008
Jul 18, 2008 99.8% Full at 1059 AM
Jul 19, 2008 99.7%

Take a look at the picture I posted earlier and imagine walking outside seeing each of those four moons individually (don't have luxury to compare next to each other) -- how would be able to tell which is the full moon with less than .3% Illuminated Phase difference?

The new moon waxing crescent (D in DOC) stands out as does waning crescent C...

http//farm4.static.flickr.com/3226/2472224091_c9637ac4f8.jpg?v=0

I just got a ? (2)

Is this the month OF hotness or not?

In other words, is this the moon of redness or not?

iN OTHER WORDS IS IT THE THE TIME OF FASTING OR NOT?

We're getting there anthony.

Peace

mmkhan

Salaaman Anthoney,

What??? ???

I just got a ? (2)

Is this the month OF hotness or not?

In other words, is this the moon of redness or not?

iN OTHER WORDS IS IT THE THE TIME OF FASTING OR NOT?

You said you got "a" ?
Then you extended to (2)
And finally asked THREE

laugh

Regards,
mmKhan

anthonywallace

Salaaman Anthoney,

What??? ???

You said you got "a" ?
Then you extended to (2)
And finally asked THREE

laugh

Regards,
mmKhan

laugh

progod

Belal,

Manaazil like you have in this quote

(

Does mean stages. It is the plural of manzil.

But the quote before

Is singular munzal and it means what i said before.

Godbless,
Anwar

farida

Peace Frida and All;

Ayman is avoiding to answer my point; as you can note, Summer was after the 4 restricted Month (9-81). in other words, Rammadan had to be 4 month before summer time, and cann't fall in June 15.
If Ayman does not answer, then, I will understand that Ayman is deliberately trying to lead people Astray.

Peace

Salaam Belalhammad

I had time to understand the relevance of 91-5 and 81 last night
Free_Minds
95 So when the restricted months have passed, then you may kill those who have set up partners wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point. If they repent, and honor the connection, and contribute towards betterment, then you shall leave them alone. God is Forgiving,

95 tells us that? when the restricted months have passed, then you may kill....?

Hence , 4 months later, when the war was going on as in
Free_Minds
981 Those who have remained are happy with their position of lagging behind God's messenger, and they disliked striving with their wealth and lives in the cause of God; and they say "Do not mobilize in the heat." Say "The fire of Hell is far hotter," if they could only understand.

..... "Do not mobilize in the heat." confirms that fighting was indeed engaged during the hot season.

Applying Ayman?s theory

The hot months in Arabia should stretch from May to August, which means that Ramadan must have occurred sometime in April/May according to the verses above.
So Ramadan was not in the month of extreme heat, if we believe Ayman?s theory that the sacred months follow Ramadan and than apply the evidence from the Qur'an...a contradiction here!!!

As nun de plume wrote earlier, we are getting there. Alhumdullilah, with the combined effort of everyone here, we are getting to the root question Hot/Ramadan or The Month of Ramadan. I would suggest we all do our own verification by looking into.91-5 and 81

361 Whoever debates with you in this after the knowledge has come to you, then say "Let us call our children and your children, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves, then, let us call out, and we shall make God's curse upon the liars."

peace

afridi220

Salaam Belalhammad

I had time to understand the relevance of 91-5 and 81 last night
Free_Minds
95 So when the restricted months have passed, then you may kill those who have set up partners wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point. If they repent, and honor the connection, and contribute towards betterment, then you shall leave them alone. God is Forgiving,

95 tells us that? when the restricted months have passed, then you may kill....?

Hence , 4 months later, when the war was going on as in
Free_Minds
981 Those who have remained are happy with their position of lagging behind God's messenger, and they disliked striving with their wealth and lives in the cause of God; and they say "Do not mobilize in the heat." Say "The fire of Hell is far hotter," if they could only understand.

..... "Do not mobilize in the heat." confirms that fighting was indeed engaged during the hot season.

Applying Ayman?s theory

The hot months in Arabia should stretch from May to August, which means that Ramadan must have occurred sometime in April/May according to the verses above.
So Ramadan was not in the month of extreme heat, if we believe Ayman?s theory that the sacred months follow Ramadan and than apply the evidence from the Qur'an...a contradiction here!!!

Salam

Summer starts her from june and July & Augusts are the hotest months over here, there is also a ban on A ban on labourers working in the hot afternoon sun from 1230 PM till 430 Pm in these two months.
It is September and still very hot.

peace

ayman

Peace all,

Ayman said
I do not agree with this. I do not think that this is the logic behind the etymology of the meaning of 'stages' as it concerns nazala. Despite that we are not dealing with etymology. I was just trying to help people understand the sense behind this meaning and the possible logic for it. manzil means stage, any stage, descending or ascending. As it refers to the moon it includes all its stages before full moon, at full moon and after full moon.
To give a similar word with a somewhat similar concept going on here Mawqa3 means location as well. It is from the root waqa3 which is to fall literally, and also means to occurr/happen. Now Mawqa3 is not where someone literally falls (although it can mean this). It arrived at that meaning from an archaic usage of the concept 'to fall'. Old English I think makes similar use of the concept to fall for location. Ex. "The old oak tree wilst fall to thy left upon the road hither" It can still be used in today's language albeit rare. Ex. "If you keep going straight the store your're looking for will fall on your left." No literal falling at all. And we need only go to the word 'befall' to see how the concept of falling is also connected to occurrence and happenings. So I hope everyone can see how the concept of to fall or descend doesn't have to be literal or order-oriented as it concerns the use of manzil. In the end no matter how far the meanings may seem to stray from the original root, if there is no evidence that it is a post-quranic meaning (the most obvious being that it is an interpretational meaning given by a post-quranic figure) then the meaning is what it is. Period.

This is false. Idiomatic usage of a word doesn't change the basic meaning of the word. For example, when one says "hit the road", this doesn't change the meaning of "hit" to "travel". The idiomatic expression as whole is interpreted through cultural nuances as "travel" but linguistically the basic meaning of the word "hit" is the same. The word "MaNAZL" always means something that one descends to. The relationship between the form NZL and MaNAZL is fairly common in the Arabic language, for example, think SJD and MaSAJD, DRS and MaDARS. No one with a grain of common sense would claim that MaDARS can actually mean a place for ignorance (the opposite of study like ascending is the opposite of descending).

Peace,

Ayman

farida

Salam

Summer starts her from june and July & Augusts are the hotest months over here, there is also a ban on A ban on labourers working in the hot afternoon sun from 1230 PM till 430 Pm in these two months.
It is September and still very hot.

peace

Salaam
Afridi,

Thank you for this information. So if the hottest months are June, July and August then, as we learn from 981, the war was in one of the hot months, after the sacred months; in other words, at least 3 months had passed since Ramadan, according to Ayman's theory.

Now work it out yourself when was Ramadan?

peace