Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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Peace Anwar,
I think that the word "scorching/ramadan" seems to be kind of like "red hot" in English. Thus, we hear in the Classical Arabic dictionaries the word used to describe what is commonly known as "pink eye" or "red eye" in English
Clearly, the above is a reference to the color and how the eye appears and not literally to the eye being blazing or buring or hot.
The same concept is used in relation to a woman whose thighs are rubbed
Clearly, here it is again about the woman's thighs appearing red from the rubbing.
As a side note, there is also additional info in Classical Arabic dictionaries that link "ramadan" specifically to hunting. This is significant given the fact that the restricted period is about hunting
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This inhumane way of hunting would have a significant negative impact on the preservation of wild life and would very quickly decimate it. Apparently, the Arabs were using this inhumane way of hunting during this period of hunting restriction.
Peace Ayman;
Where are your Quranic Proof?
The Quran Shows you in a very well-Established verse that the Hot or the Pink is not the Word "Rammadan".(
Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of Blazen (Scorching) water. And he found near it a people. We said "O Dhul-Qarnain! Either you punish them, or treat them with kindness." (18-86)
Here God discribes the color of the water at the time of the Sun Set (when the sun is reflecting on the water surface) as "Hammeaa" and not Rammadan.
The dictionary can not be above Quran...don't you agree.
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Peace everyone,
I have been following this thread with great interest and wanted to jump in and point out some additional defects in progod's theories and logic in addition to the ones mentioned by ayman.
Progod makes the following claims in an earlier post
584 However, he who does not have the where?withal shall fast for two consecutive months before the couple may touch one another again; and he who is unable to fast shall feed sixty needy ones
Here it is. If you can't fast for 2 months to atone for the sin in the previous verses, then you can expiate the daily fasting for 2 months by feeding 60 people
589 is the vers that has been use against me in the argument. It reads
Allah will not call you to account for what is futile in your oaths, but He will call you to account for your deliberate oaths for expiation, feed ten indigent persons, on a scale of the average for the food of your families; or clothe them; or give a slave his freedom. If that is beyond your means, fast for three days. That is the expiation for the oaths ye have sworn. But keep to your oaths. Thus doth Allah make clear to you His signs, that ye may be grateful.But I have continued to argrue here that in this verse we are not expiating any fast. The breaking of our oaths is worth feeding 10 people in need or JUST clothing them, or freeing someone in bondage. But if we can't do that we can fast for 3 days. So here we are not making up for any fasting. Whereas before if we can't fast then we expiate for the fast. That is the difference.
The parts of his quote in red are completely wrong and misleading and I hope that was not intentional on his part.
Feeding 60 people is not compensation for fasting for "shahrain", but is a compensation for estranging one's wife per 583, if one cannot fast for "shahrain" for estranging one's wife. Both fasting for "shahrain", and feeding 60 people are compensation for estranging one's wife.
589 and 583-4 are similar in the sense that in both verses, feeding people is not compensation for fasting, and fasting for a few days is not compensation for feeding people, but BOTH actions are compensation for something else. If feeding 60 people is equivalent to fasting for "shahrain" according to 584 and from this it is deduced that feeding one person = fasting one day, then using the same logic, according to 589 feeding 3 people would be equivalent to fasting 10 days which gives an equation of one person = 3.33 days. Therefore, it cannot be said that according to The Qur'an, feeding one person is always equivalent to fasting one day.
This collapses the foundation of progod's theory.
A second defect in his theory is that what if a lunar month is 28 days ? How would a "Quranic month" be equal to 30 days then ?
A third defect is that 2185 asks us to witness/"shahida" a "shahr". How can one "witness" a "month", which is an arbitrary man-made time period ? Does an angel blow a trumpet at the start of a month ? or does the temperature suddenly change at the onset of a month ? or is there a blinding flash of light at the start of a month ? P
Also I am surprised to see why belalhammad is unable to realize that fighting in the hot month of June immediately before the "shahru ramadhan" could also be classified as "after" the restricted months of the hot season, and would thus have no bearing on fasting being in the period of scorching heat.
I would like to remain an interested observer without engaging in any debate unless some other point comes up. May God guide us all to the truth.
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Also I am surprised to see why belalhammad is unable to realize that fighting in the hot month of June immediately before the "shahru ramadhan" could also be classified as "after" the restricted months of the hot season, and would thus have no bearing on fasting being in the period of scorching heat.
Peace;
Put yourself in the Prophet postion, would you prepare for a war four weeks before the 4 restricted month?
Verse 9-81 is after the 4 restricted Months, when the prophet had 8 month to go for a very important and hard war.
9-81 is the verse that collapsed the foundation of Ayman's theory, as you said in regard of Progod.Peace everyone,
I have been following this thread with great interest
But how come that you have a very deep knowledge of Ayman theory and your profile says that you just registered Today at 042510 AM.
Just a Question? confused
Anyway welcome to the Fourm ;D
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Salaam belal
The Quran Shows you in a very well-Established verse that the Hot or the Pink is not the Word "Rammadan".
(
Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of Blazen (Scorching) water. And he found near it a people. We said "O Dhul-Qarnain! Either you punish them, or treat them with kindness." (18-86)
Here God discribes the color of the water at the time of the Sun Set (when the sun is reflecting on the water surface) as "Hammeaa" and not Rammadan.
The dictionary can not be above Quran...don't you agree.
Where is your qur'aanic proof that "hami'a" is a description of colour/blazing?
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Peace all,
Peace be upon all,
Br. Ayman, I'd like to say thanks for that post on showing the differences in the different opinions on sharh ramadan, it was a useful way for me to look at the issue more deeply. As of now, I am convinced that sharh, as used in the reading, translates to full moon in all of the reading. I have noticed that for those who take the meaning to be 'month', containing anywhere from 28-31 days as used in the world today, and those who take the meaning to be 'full moon' then for all of the time periods mentioned in the reading using 'shahr' as a way to count, then they differ by '1 month' each, month being however many days happen to fall between 2 full moons. However, I do have one question for you about the first part of the verse 3412 "And for Sulaiman the wind ghuduwuhaa shahr and rawaahuhaa shahr..." If one translates it using 'month' then the translations that I've seen have to add the word 'journey' which is not mentioned in the verse as far as I see. If you translate it as 'full moon' then how do you understand this verse? ??? I do not know a whole lot about the science of wind and all so maybe I am missing something, I don't know. However, I clearly do not like and do not accept when translators add words to seemingly make a verse more complete and clear as if it wasn't already!
Br. Ayman, maybe you missed this.
Salam everyone
Now why are you so confused like Ayman in number of days per Moon Month?
Peace Br. belalhammad,
I'm not confused it's just that I haven't personally began from one full moon and then counted the number of days between it and the next. I just wanted to leave open the possibility that it could differ. The topic however is about the full moon itself and using it as a marker.
The Number of Days will be the same if you were Honest when calculating; but Ayman is trying to Cheat Allah in Fasting by discounting the Month Days to 10 days.
)How did you conclude that this opinion is discounting 'month days' to 10 days? We are not saying that a 'month' is ten days. We are saying that 'shahr' should be translated as 'full moon', using it as a marker to begin the fasting and then the number of days total is based on the additional analysis of the verses.
I hope this clarifies what I am discussing. I was also looking for those who could answer directly the questions that I raised in my post if possible, those who take shahr to mean 'month'.
It could be completely flawed but, in the interest of finding out the truth, we must all let go off our egos and work together.
Peace Sis Farida,
Please Farida, you made two such comments and I really don't believe that it helps any. You are making an assumption that all of us here have egos just because we disagree and I am offended by that. I seek refuge with the god from arrogance and I hate it as well. I am posting here in all honestly to aid in arriving at the truth so please don't assume otherwise without proof as the god has told us that much suspicion is sin.
Please note that in this verse word Ramadan is mentioned and that this is the time of the great event when the Qur?an was sent down as guidance for mankind.
This was the great event for the whole mankind, it was hot in northern hemisphere and cold in the southern hemisphere that is when the night of degree originated. It happened therefore that this single event fell in different seasons in different parts of the world. We cannot make it a seasonal event related to Arabia only as that would mean the event should take place again and again and again for rest of the world. No it was one time for the whole world and if we make it a summer event, expecting everyone to celebrate it only in the summer, it becomes a local event not a universal one.We sent it down during a Blessed NIGHT for We (ever) wish to warn (against Evil).
The moon (not full) is used to calculate events a timing device used to mark fixed periods of time 2189That's a good point that you are pointing out and it's true. I will consider that some more however, remember also that this issue involves the forbidden 'full moons' in which hunting wild life is forbidden. How could this change from year to year? Also, as far as the descending of the reading, we do know that it was sent down upon one man, the messenger/ prophet Muhammad and he was in a particular area. We can also try looking at it from this angle. In verse 2189 are you translating 'ahillah' as 'moon'??
I read the rest of your post about 'sanah' and ''aam' and as I was looking over this issue I also realized that maybe now I can look into these two words. Since I haven't done so yet I really can't comment on this part but when I do we can exchange viewpoints on it. ) Also if you can answer some of the questions I raised initially, directly, I would appreciate that. Take care all.
Umm Tariq
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From Arabic Classical dictionaries
sana/sineen periods of little/no rain/dryness/drought
7130 And We took the people of the Pharoh by drought
3aam period of rain/vegetation (from 3aam tall; for plant)
1247 "He said you will farm tiredlessly seven periods of little rain, so leave what you harvested on its /ears cobs, save for the little you will eat"
12 48 " then will come seven periods of extreme hardness that will eat what you provided except the little that you saved"
1249 "then after that comes a time of abundant rain when people will press". (the harvest)The other verses containing these two words are not as explicit as these foor me. Any opinion?
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Peace all --
2226 Those who take an oath not to have sexual relation with their wives must wait for four months...
Depending on the day in which this oath occurs waiting four full moons can vary by 28 days.
92 So walk/go/travel in the earth, four months?
How much time exactly does travel freely four full moons?
936 That the months' number/count at God (are) twelve in God's scripture, (on) the day He created the skies/space and the earth, from it four (are) sacred?
12 full moons which 4 full moons (i.e. sightings/snapshots) are sacred? What does that mean?
Time is continuous (infinite snapshots) from a point in time to another point in time.
http//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/C_solarcorona2003.gif
2234 And those who are made to die from you, and they leave spouses/wives, they (the wives) wait with themselves four months, and ten (days)?
http//www.almanac.com/astronomy/moon/full/index.php
IF a man dies on August 17; his widow must wait 4 ?full moons? and 10 days.
Full Moon Dates 2008
August 16 418 P.M.
September 15 415 A.M.
October 14 304 P.M.
November 13 1219 A.M.
December 12 1038 A.M.Add 10 days ? December 22, 2008 is the term date
Calculate duration between two dates
http//www.timeanddate.com/date/duration.htmlFrom and including Sunday, August 17, 2008
To and including Monday, December 22, 2008
It is 128 days from the start date to the end date, end date includedIF a man dies on September 14; his widow must wait 4 ?full moons? and 10 days.
From and including Sunday, September 14, 2008
To and including Monday, December 22, 2008
It is 100 days from the start date to the end date, end date includedIf shahr is month this woman is breaking the commandment by 28 days too early.
One can argue it is based on a menstrual cycle and each woman waits 4 periods and 10 days.
What about women past menopause between age of 45 and 55?
A third defect is that 2185 asks us to witness/"shahida" a "shahr". How can one "witness" a "month", which is an arbitrary man-made time period ?
To bear witness is to have knowledge of a thing which is not always physical.
Surah 85
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIZrM7qYYrM
Peace
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Peace,
Truth seeker, feeding people to subsitute for a fast is expiating the fast. Plain and simple. THe reasons for the fast are to either to compensate certain actions or to uphold God's commands. But we expiate daily fasts by feeding people for each fast we do not do. That is not illogical or misleading.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace,
Ayman I would like to point out that all of those quotes specififically refer to the feeling of heat, including the heat felt in a burning eye and from two thighs rubbing together. It is only your implication or better said, your guesswork, about the color being red. No color is mentioned in any of those quotes and all of them logically imply the feeling of heat as the main root ramada implies. So why are you guessing and putting the idea of color in here when it is not there?
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace Anwar,
Ayman I would like to point out that all of those quotes specififically refer to the feeling of heat, including the heat felt in a burning eye and from two thighs rubbing together. It is only your implication or better said, your guesswork, about the color being red. No color is mentioned in any of those quotes and all of them logically imply the feeling of heat as the main root ramada implies. So why are you guessing and putting the idea of color in here when it is not there?
Now you are just being argumentative and when you do that like some people here you forget your god-given common sense. Last time I checked no one who felt his eye burning had their eyes turn blue, white, or black. Their eyes always turn red. You think is refered to as "pink eye" or "red eye" in English for nothing? The term scorching is clearly about two things, heat and glowing red. So when referring to "shahr"/full-moon, they can only refer to the full-moon immediately after the summer solstice. Notice that you are now not arguing anymore about the indisputable scientific fact that this full moon will appear more red than the other full moons.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Umm Tariq,
Br. Ayman, I'd like to say thanks for that post on showing the differences in the different opinions on sharh ramadan, it was a useful way for me to look at the issue more deeply.
All thanks is due to the god sister. I only get credit for any mistakes. The god shows us the straight path by contrasting it with the paths of those who are lost (16-7). So it is always useful to compare all the different approaches and see which one is closest to the straight path to the truth.
As of now, I am convinced that sharh, as used in the reading, translates to full moon in all of the reading. I have noticed that for those who take the meaning to be 'month', containing anywhere from 28-31 days as used in the world today, and those who take the meaning to be 'full moon' then for all of the time periods mentioned in the reading using 'shahr' as a way to count, then they differ by '1 month' each, month being however many days happen to fall between 2 full moons.
This would depend on when the event of the full-moon occured. Remember your excellent analogy of full-moons and menstruations. The number of days will depend on when those events occur in relation to the start of the counting.
However, I do have one question for you about the first part of the verse 3412 "And for Sulaiman the wind ghuduwuhaa shahr and rawaahuhaa shahr..." If one translates it using 'month' then the translations that I've seen have to add the word 'journey' which is not mentioned in the verse as far as I see. If you translate it as 'full moon' then how do you understand this verse? ??? I do not know a whole lot about the science of wind and all so maybe I am missing something, I don't know. However, I clearly do not like and do not accept when translators add words to seemingly make a verse more complete and clear as if it wasn't already!
I don't think that anyone (including me) can say with certainty what 3412 is talking about.
"The interrelationship of the solar wind and the earth?s magnetosphere is receiving considerable attention in recent years. It has been suggested that the passage of the moon through the earth?s magnetic shield may serve to trigger various weather and magnetic activity. The interrelationship of indicators like the geomagnetic index, solar flux and other measures of solar activity with the moon is just now in the process of being researched and understood." (From http//lessons.astrology.com/course/show/The-Astrology-of-Space/3031-The-Solar-Wind )
There is also other information that may be interesting but I don't think that it is scientifically proven
http//www.policeops.com/full-moon-ion-effect.htm
Regarding verse 937, right after the god tells us about the count of 12 ashhur, it seems to me that if the people at the time of the revelation of the book were going by counting full moons, and there is sometimes this extra 13th full moon the god tells us that to sometimes count it and sometimes not is an increase in disbelief. Correct me if I am wrong but what I also get out of this is that when people decide to use a certain 'calendar' per se, at least in our times, they don't make it sometimes 12 and sometimes 13 since it's a 'calendar' that is used to regulate the systems we follow. The traditional sunni lunar calendar stays 12 months, by some names that I don't know where they came from and doesn't even recognize the seasons as meaning anything related to the great reading which is a big crime. Where in the reading is it even remotely suggested that the 4 ashhur hurum are not constant from year to year?
If the "nasi" is the 13th full moon (we don't know this for sure) then the problem was with making it permissible some years and not others. What we are told in the great reading is that we should never count it (i.e., we should skip it and start counting again at the next full-moon). A year with 13 full-moons occurs every three years and interestingly this simple and elegant method given in 936 would automatically and accurately maintain the lunar cycle in sync with the seasons.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace all,
The topic however is about the full moon itself and using it as a marker.
How did you conclude that this opinion is discounting 'month days' to 10 days? We are not saying that a 'month' is ten days. We are saying that 'shahr' should be translated as 'full moon', using it as a marker to begin the fasting and then the number of days total is based on the additional analysis of the verses.
Peace Sis Farida,
Please Farida, you made two such comments and I really don't believe that it helps any. You are making an assumption that all of us here have egos just because we disagree and I am offended by that. I seek refuge with the god from arrogance and I hate it as well.
Umm Tariq
Salaam Umm Tariq,
Please read my reply againQuote from farida on Today at 121341 AM
It could be completely flawed but, in the interest of finding out the truth, we must all let go off our egos and work together.You are a new member here and I hardly know you, I am surprised that you are offended by my general statement where I used the word "we"; that means including myself, I am sorry, its your problem if you took it as directed towards you. However I have highlighed above in red ,in your reply, where you are calling yourself part of Ayman's camp even though you say that you need to study this subject.
You seek refuge with the god from arrogance, so do I, but I do not see Ayman doing that, as he clearly wants to impose his theory or he calls others ignorant, "those who are lost" to him he is the only informed one and his is the "simple and elegant method"I am posting here in all honestly to aid in arriving at the truth so please don't assume otherwise without proof as the god has told us that much suspicion is sin.
When did I cast doubt on YOUR honesty ??? Assume what? That you are part of Ayman/'s team???? Did I touch some raw nerve ???
That's a good point that you are pointing out and it's true. I will consider that some more however, remember also that this issue involves the forbidden 'full moons' in which hunting wild life is forbidden. How could this change from year to year
Thank you for noticing the good point and thank you again for considering it. While doing that do keep in mind that I am talking of two models to follow No single man made calender; one the lunar months that we follow for the month of fasting and Ayman's version could be acceptable for seasonal events like harvesting, restricted months etc.
Also, as far as the descending of the reading, we do know that it was sent down upon one man, the messenger/ prophet Muhammad and he was in a particular area. We can also try looking at it from this angle.
Why not use simple common sense!!!
Yes the message was descended on one man but for the benefit of the whole mankind. So its the event not the messanger who is our concern but the message. Its not a local even but a universal one, and it cannot be repeated in a mock exercise round the globe.
The 'night of measure' was a special night it was a night, during which there was night in one side of the world, afternoon at the other or early morning, what ever in other parts but, as Nun says in his last post "Time is continuous " so the event continued from then onward and has been revolving around the globe so everyone can witness that night as it falls in their region. This is the simple logic and this is the truth for those who reflect!!!In verse 2189 are you translating 'ahillah' as 'moon'
I did not translate the verse as I am not like some who manipulate translations according to their theory I said this
The moon (not full) is used to calculate events a timing device used to mark fixed periods of time 2189
Yes full cycle of moon from start to finish from one cresent to last one. I hope I made it clear now.I read the rest of your post about 'sanah' and ''aam' and as I was looking over this issue I also realized that maybe now I can look into these two words. Since I haven't done so yet I really can't comment on this part but when I do we can exchange viewpoints on it.
It will benefit us all if we consider this
1812 Then We roused them, in order to test which of the two parties was best at calculating the term of YEARS they had tarried!Also if you can answer some of the questions I raised initially, directly, I would appreciate that. Take care all
If you read my replies in this thread it does answer your concerns, and its backed by the verses of the Quran. In my last reply to you I did reply to your questions by saying
I am 100% convinced that the solstice moon has no bearing on ascertaining the month of fasting.Regarding the subject of witness now more signs for all and following Nun's post, how many more proof do you need after this
Peace all --
2226 Those who take an oath not to have sexual relation with their wives must wait for four months...
92 So walk/go/travel in the earth, four months?
How much time exactly does travel freely four full moons?
936 That the months' number/count at God (are) twelve in God's scripture, (on) the day He created the skies/space and the earth, from it four (are) sacred?
12 full moons which 4 full moons (i.e. sightings/snapshots) are sacred? What does that mean?
Time is continuous (infinite snapshots) from a point in time to another point in time.
http//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/C_solarcorona2003.gif
To bear witness is to have knowledge of a thing which is not always physical.
Surah 85
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIZrM7qYYrM
Peace
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Peace Farida,
From the above observations I understand that "sana(t)" is used when referring to seasonal events ie harvest or restricted months and it is not fixed for the whole mankind but rotates according to movement of sun and the moon so in this type of calculations the summer solstice may be used As restricted/sacred month was observed by the pagans too. I wonder if sana(t) is the year which was used when it was divided into four/six season were used in a year prior to Islam.
And 3am is the years which take into account of seasonal as well as fixed term and making the total number of months 12.Wow I think that you might have just solved the question that has been bugging me for so long. Excellent work.
When I pondered on what you wrote and checked the passages where the words "3am" and "sanat" occur, I noticed something interesting that you indicated and that differentiates those two terms. In 928, we hear the god refering to "3am" as "their 3am". Why is this? You provided the answer in your analysis. It is because, as you said, "sanat" refers to the natural annual seasonal cycle and it is not fixed for the whole mankind but rotates according to movement of sun and the moon. On the other hand, from the passage "3am" was the year in the specific calendar used by the Arab audience at the time of the revelation of the passage and thus it is "their 3am". In 937, we hear the word "3am" again as referring to the Arab's specific calendar system in contrast to the god's natural system (the day he created the heavens and the earth) in 936.
This newly found understanding about the difference between "3am" and "sanat" further points to the period of the restriction and thus the timing of the fast and the feast ("hagg" being in accordance with the god's natural system and not specific manmade calendars that are fixed for certain people at certain times in history.
Thank you sister and may the god reward you for your efforts and bless you and have mercy on us all.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Farida,
Wow I think that you might have just solved the question that has been bugging me for so long. Excellent work.
When I pondered on what you wrote and checked the passages where the words "3am" and "sanat" occur, I noticed something interesting that you indicated and that differentiates those two terms. In 928, we hear the god refering to "3am" as "their 3am". Why is this? You provided the answer in your analysis. It is because, as you said, "sanat" refers to the natural annual seasonal cycle and it is not fixed for the whole mankind but rotates according to movement of sun and the moon. On the other hand, from the passage "3am" was the year in the specific calendar used by the Arab audience at the time of the revelation of the passage and thus it is "their 3am". In 937, we hear the word "3am" again as referring to the Arab's specific calendar system in contrast to the god's natural system (the day he created the heavens and the earth) in 936.
This newly found understanding about the difference between "3am" and "sanat" further points to the period of the restriction and thus the timing of the fast and the feast ("hagg" being in accordance with the god's natural system and not specific manmade calendars that are fixed for certain people at certain times in history.
Thank you sister and may the god reward you for your efforts and bless you and have mercy on us all.
Peace,
Ayman
Salaam Ayman,
If you read my post you would notice that I do not have an inflated ego and I do not feel ashamed to acknowledge something worth considering.
The two Models for counting I mentioned means two types of calculations and it needs lots of brilliant minds here to work it out, it is not as simple as you think.
When it comes to celebrating the month of fasting your mode of calculation is NOT ACCEPTABLE as the Night of Measure was the birth of an event and for that we need fixed term calculations using the phases of the moon --- lunar calendar if that's what you call it.
Please do pay a lot of attention to my last post to Umm Tariq and then say thanks to me.WE CAN NOT TAKE ONE VIEW BUT NEED BACKING FROM THE QUR'AN FOR ALL OUR STUDIES and only with combined efforts can we resolve this.
Pay attention to this 1812 Then We roused them, in order to test which of the two parties was best at calculating the term of YEARS they had tarried!I would invite you to join hands with everyone to work out the best calculation for the term.
peace
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Peace Farida,
If you read my post you would notice that I do not have an inflated ego and I do not feel ashamed to acknowledge something worth considering.
The two Models for counting I mentioned means two types of calculations and it needs lots of brilliant minds here to work it out, it is not as simple as you think.Logically, the simplest explanation is usually the most correct.
WE CAN NOT TAKE ONE VIEW BUT NEED BACKING FROM THE QUR'AN FOR ALL OUR STUDIES and only with combined efforts can we resolve this.
Pay attention to this 1812 Then We roused them, in order to test which of the two parties was best at calculating the term of YEARS they had tarried!The word YEARS doesn't occur in 1812.
I would invite you to join hands with everyone to work out the best calculation for the term.
I think that everyone who doesn't have an inflated ego knows that the traditional timing has ZERO support in the great reading and this is why you want to work out the best calculation for the term. This is fine but until a better understanding is found, we should follow the best available understanding at this stage and which keeps getting better and more confirmed (see 391. To put it in other terms, we shouldn't be stuck in paralysis in the traditional understanding while we are doing more analysis.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace,
I never claimed that if someone's eyes burned they turned any color. Most times they do turn red (sometimes they don't turn any color). But how do we know this is pink eye?
I did a great injustice to this discusion by not looking up these quotes of yours before
(Translation She did not apply anitmony (to her eyes) until her eyes started to burn.)
(if the feminine taktahil refers to the eyes then the translation is They (the eyes) were bothered until her eyes started to burn.)
In lisan al-arab iktahala is likened to kuhhala (passive of kahhala) and it says 'jufoonu 3uyoonin bil-qadhaa lam tukahhal' (The eyelids of the eyes with a foreign particle in them are not unbothered/at rest/at ease/refershed) it says that takahhala and iktahhala can be used the same way.
(Her eyes were pricked until they started to burn)
(shakka is to prick or jab with a lance an arrow or anything sharp, taskhakkaa would be a constant state of being pricked.)
So again, no mention of pink eye here. Ayman you are acting like pink eye is the only disease of the eye. And these contexts are talking about a disease of the eye that is cured most likely with antimony and that make the eyes BURN. That is the meaning of tarmidaan and tarmid here; TO BURN (To be or feel extremely hot (not to carbonize))
Now I am not being arugmentative but you are injected red into the meaning of ramada when burning is the only meaning there. Even iktahala is when the eyes are refreshed from sleep or from being healed and when they DON'T BURN. iktahala is the relief of the eyes from burning or the application of antimony to heal the eyes.
Please stop this interjection of meaning. There is nothing here that says that this is talking about pink eye or red eyes. It is talking about burning eyes in particular. The redness is optional, and not in the meaning here.
Thank you for the quotes. It is a shame most people cannot read Arabic well enough to see that you are injecting the color red into these quotes (you are injected pink eye as well) without red being there.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace Anwar,
I never claimed that if someone's eyes burned they turned any color. Most times they do turn red (sometimes they don't turn any color).
This is all that needed to be acknowledged. We are talking about normal mundane common connotations and not about exceptions.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Farida,
Logically, the simplest explanation is usually the most correct.
Peace,
Ayman
Salaam
Yes and yours is not a simple explanation, not even logically sound I paste here what I wrote earlier
"Why not use simple common sense!!!
Yes the message was descended on one man but for the benefit of the whole mankind. So its the event not the messanger who is our concern but the message. Its not a local even but a universal one, and it cannot be repeated in a mock exercise round the globe.
The 'night of measure' was a special night it was a night, during which there was night in one side of the world, afternoon at the other or early morning, what ever in other parts but, as Nun says in his last post "Time is continuous " so the event continued from then onward and has been revolving around the globe so everyone can witness that night as it falls in their region. This is the simple logic and this is the truth for those who reflect"The word YEARS doesn't occur in 1812.
Thanks for reminding, Its duly noted. I only took this from a Qur'an search, in English, under "years". Looks like someone added words they desired P.
I think that everyone who doesn't have an inflated ego knows that the traditional timing has ZERO support in the great reading and This is fine but until a better understanding is found, we should follow the best available understanding at this stage and which keeps getting better and more confirmed (see 391.
Nor is your version credible it refuted by the Qur'an. Alhumdullilah I am following the best avaliable route. Who is more intellegent only Allah knows, but beware that Satan uses intelligence to mislead.
I don't beleive that you are seriously intersted in working with others for the benefit of the deen. It appears for you its your way or no way.this is why you want to work out the best calculation for the term.
I am truly in search of the truth about sacred months and that's what we need to work out and the reason I'm looking for the best calculation is this Talking about the age of Nuh (Noah) both the words for year are used in this verse but the count together is coming up to a thousand less fifty years, and no one can possibly live for that long.
So here is the clue if we were to combine the calculation of "3am" and "sana(t)" it would be unrealistically long 2914To put it in other terms, we shouldn't be stuck in paralysis in the traditional understanding while we are doing more analysis
I think you are completely exhausted and "stuck in paralysis" after working on your Summer Solstice Scorching Full Moon Theory and could not contribute further but No worries just look at all the brilliant minds on free-minds and outside free-mind I'm sure the best calculations will be reached in due time. sun
peace
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Salaam belal
Where is your qur'aanic proof that "hami'a" is a description of colour/blazing?
Peace Samia;
If you believe it means something else, then please let me know.
Then I will have to prove to you, by Quran, if your or my meaning is supported by Quran.
Salam