Can a Moralist Atheist be mu'min - Issue Revisited

Armanaziz

Salamun Alaikum.

Recently I received mixed feedback on a couple of my post (both on the forum and through PM), so I thought it makes sense that I elaborate on my understanding of this topic on a new thread. First of all for the benefit of readers who missed my earlier posts on this topic, here is a recap of what I said earlier

?You have probably got the idea that Qur'an says Allah will burn the unbelievers in hell - which you are finding difficult to understand. I believe if you study diligently you will soon come to the conviction that this is a misconception based on faulty translations. Qur'an does not say this. Neither Arabic root meaning, nor Quranic theorlogy supports the word "kafir" to mean "unbeliever" - rather kafir is somone who represses or suppresses his "faith".

But, then again, isn't "faith" (Iman) same as "believing" (Janna)? NOT EXACTLY. Faith is acknowledgement of our relationship with our Creator - that as our solemn "gratitude" towards the One who gave us the life we have an inviolable responsibility to live a responsible life based on the sense of right and wrong He instilled in us. Although I am using the word "He" and "One" it is possible to acknowledge and accept the same relationship without assigning a "Personification" to God. That is exactly what many in the Buddhist and Atheist camp do.

If you ask "an atheist who dedicates his whole life to help other people" why he or she helps others or strives to be a good person - the atheist would probably answer - I do not do this to please any deity, rather I do this for my own satisfaction - I do this because doing this (i.e. being good and helpful) makes me feel complete - it helps me look into the mirror with my head held high. (Helping others not to please any deity, but for the sake of goodness itself - is in other words helping others seeking the face of Allah - as suggested by Qur'an. Because Allah is the ultimate source of Goodness - Allah is NOT a deity.)

In other words what they really mean is that "goodness" is a natural instinct built into them. They surrender to this natural instinct. This surrender to ones God gifted instinct is already what is true "submission / islam"; this is already a mark of their "faith" or Iman. Of course, believing in a "personified" God is more in line with the teaching of the messengers and holy scriptures (including Qur'an), as it is easier for most people to conceptualize God in that way - but mere "belief" in a "personified" God is by no way a mandatory criteria for being a Mu'min or faithful. It is theoretically possible for one to be atheist and mu'min (faithful) and muslim at the same time. There are even Qur'anic examples of such people.

On the otherhand kafir who are condemned to eternal hell are people who (nomatter which religious camp they belong) are ungrateful towards the universal force which created and sustains them - and thereby represses their faith - forces their own soul to believe they have no obligation to act responsibly and morally. Kafir from the atheist camp believe they have no moral responsibility because there is no "God" and the kafir in the religious camp believe they have no moral responsibility as long as they can please their respective "deity" through worship and blind acceptance of customs and practices preached by the clergy of their religion. Thus "believing" (Janna) can act like a two way sword - when a faithful (mumin) believes in Allah, it is likely to elevate him to the status of a Muttaqui (Conscious), but when a kafir believes in Allah often he ends up believing in a deity (tagoot) by the name Allah and associate their clergy and scholars as partner to Allah to define rules and regulations superceding their God-gifted sense of right and wrong.

Just like a mu'min can belong to a religious or a secular club, a kafir can belong to a religious or a secular club. The differentiating crieteion between a mu'min and a kafir is their faith (acceptance of their obligation to live responsibly), not their belief.

When I said ?There are even Qur'anic examples of such people.? I was referring to the below

The act of believing is merely accepting a hypothesis as true. People believe in ghosts, aliens and all sorts of strange and unproven things. Merely such believe in an entity named ?God? or ?Allah? does not make someone a Mumin. There are numerous verse in Qur?an which indicate that. Example 2100, 4914 etc.

The act of having faith is accepting a relationship as a binding obligation. When it is said that the servant is faithful to his master ? it does not only mean the servants believes his master to be so, rather it means he accepts the master-slave relationship as a binding obligation. In Arabic, we read that Muhammad (pbuh) used to be called ?al-amin?. That is not because he believed something, rather because once he was entrusted with something, he would take that relationship as a binding obligation.

Believing is a binary variable - one either believes or he does not; but Faith is a matter of degree. (See ref 9124).

Is it possible to have faith without believing? I think possible. Imagine a servant who is carrying out his master?s order even after his master?s death. He knows and believes that he is no longer a servant as his master is dead, BUT he still upholds faith in his master-slave relationship through his actions.

We have faith in Allah when we accept acting based on our God-gifted sense of right and wrong as a binding obligation on us. We know our life is a gift and we have faith in the ?One who gave us this gift? by acting responsibly. It is unlikely, but possible that an atheist may accept acting based on his/her inherent sense of right and wrong as a binding obligation.

Is there any Quranic example of someone being mumin without believing? Let?s take 2249. Among the forces of Talut, those who believed/assumed that they would meet their master said certain things. It can be logically inferred that in that group there were others who did not really believe or assume that they would meet their master. But arguably they were among the faithful based on their act of fighting in the path of Allah. But clearly those who did believe in meeting Allah were on a stronger footing of faith.

Now let me elaborate a bit on these ideas with more supporting arguments and proofs.

?Atheist? is only a label. There are 2billion+ Christians and 1billion+ Muslims in the world. What is your best guess of the % of people within this 3billion+ that really, really believe with the fullest implication of the word that there is a God who will hold us accountable for our actions - as opposed to simply providing lip-service to their religious dogmas to go along with their respective ?community?? I am convinced there are more ?unbelievers? with ?Christian? and ?Muslim? labels than there are official ?unbelievers? with ?Atheist? label. Rather the ?Atheist? are more honest and truthful about what they believe. So, declaration of ?belief? DOES NOT suffice as faith

28 And among mankind who say ?We have faith in Allah and in the last day?, but they are not with the faithful -

29 They seek to deceive Allah and those who have faith ? but they don?t deceive except their (own) souls ? but they don?t realize.

(My personal translation, cross checking recommended.)

And do not forget those religious ?label? holders who may have ?belief? in some form by listening to others but have no clue what is the implication of their belief or what is the meaning of having ?faith?.

278 And among them are the uninformed - they don?t know the book except wishful thinking ? and nor they have but beliefs.

(My personal translation, emphasis added, cross checking recommended.)

Now let?s look at ?unbelievers? outside the fold of ?Fraternity of the book?. Many of you would know that most Buddhists would acknowledge themselves as ?Atheists? because in Buddhist ideology there is no ?Personification? of God. They acknowledge the spirit of the universe as eternal, impersonal and naturally ?just? which returns good karma with good and bad karma with bad? just like Newton?s 3rd law. I am convinced that their acceptance of their eternal link with the spirit of universe suffices as ?Faith in Allah? and their acknowledgement of invariability of karma (?in this life or next) suffices as ?Faith in the last day?; thereby I am convinced they are covered by the umbrella protection clause promised by Allah in Qur?an

262 Indeed, those who had faith, and those who became hudan (i.e. repenters) or the nasara (i.e. helpers) or the sabian (i.e. rejectors) ? whoever put faith in Allah and the last day and acted righteously ? so for them their reward is with their Master, and they don?t have any fear, nor will they grieve.

(My personal translation, emphasis added, cross checking recommended.)

Wonder about a person working righteously while holding atheist / Buddhist beliefs? Please take some time to read about this lady

http//www.bbc.com/news/business-28863019

I do not know what is her destiny in afterlife; but I am convinced I won?t mind too much being in company with her.

This takes me to the discussion on people who actively declare and promote themselves as ?(Moralist) Atheist? (like this guy http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Mujica). YES I do acknowledge that their over enthusiasm to denounce the concept of God does seem problematic and prima facie it seems more likely that they would not have faith. BUT then again, we do not know who have what in their heart. It is a matter for Allah to judge, not us. It may be possible even while consciously rejecting the ?Concept of God? they sub-consciously acknowledge acting upon goodness as their obligation as a mark of gratitude to the ?Gift of life? they are enjoying, and it may be possible such acknowledgement would suffice as ?Faith in Allah?. (Analogy If I fully appreciate the making of my iPhone and use it responsibly as its features are supposed to be use, that suffices as my faith in the makers of the iPhone even if I have no clue whether the phone is made in China ot Planet Mars.) ... AND it may be possible even while consciously rejecting the ?Concept of Afterlife? they sub-consciously acknowledge they are accountable for each of their actions because one way or other inappropriate actions cause suffering (? to our generation or the next), and it may be possible such acknowledgement would suffice as ?Faith in the last day?. So, as long as these people ?Offer us peace?? i.e. they are not fighting us or causing corruption, we have no right to say that they are not ?faithful?. Because, we cannot simply label people as ?faithful? and ?not faithful? to create divisions in the world so that the labelled ?faithful? can win over the labelled ?unfaithful? and have worldly victory. Certainly, the true reward is not in winning over others on ?theological debate? but the true rewards are with our Master to whom we all return, and who is aware how we all act

494 O! Those who have faith ? when you set forth in Allah?s path then clarify and do not say to those who offer you peace, ?You are not a faithful? seeking (mere) trifle of the life of the world ? then there are larger booties with Allah. That?s how you used to be from before. Then Allah favored upon you ? so clarify. Indeed of how you act - Allah happens to be All-aware.

(My personal translation, cross checking recommended.)

Personally, I am increasingly becoming doubtful that those who ?believe? in a personalized God are better in acting righteously compared to those who actively ?un-believe? but promote the ?faith? that we have an inviolable responsibility to uphold our conscience and intellect as a mark of gratitude towards the gift of life. The record of human rights violation, corruption, war-mongering, intolerance, hypocrisy, inefficiency and poverty in ?Majority Muslim? countries compared to such records in ?Majority Irreligious? countries is fostering my doubt.

But all said and done, I do not recommend at all to stop believing in God. Rather I would invite everyone to be humble - to believe in God and to believe that to God is our destiny, and to seek His help to lead us to the straight route. OTHERWISE holding on to the faith that we have an inviolable responsibility to uphold our consciousness is going to be ever so much more difficult

245 And seek help through the patience and the salaat* and indeed it surely is severe except for the humble ones.

246 Who believe that they will meet their Master and that to Him they will return.

(My personal translation, emphasis added, cross checking recommended.)

Believing is neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition to have faith. Let?s recognize the difference and hence put the due emphasis on faith, rather than being overly obsessed with believing.

May Allah guide us all to the straight route.

Regards,
Arman

P.S. The mainstream linguistic scholars are also catching up with the idea that faith in scriptures is not same as believing. Here is a very interesting presentation on related topic
https//www.ted.com/talks/karen_armstrong_makes_her_ted_prize_wish_the_charter_for_compassion

FreedomStands

To me, Atheism is just one of many different linguistic frameworks of certain word preferences associated to certain meanings. They do the right thing rejecting false concepts of "God" and for them the word for Allah is often "Nothing", while the word "God" in their linguistic framework seems exclusively attached to absurd and silly ideas which they rightfully reject.

I consider myself an "Atheist" as well as every other religion, save a few, because they are to me just different linguistic preferences and terminologies which can be defined carefully and attached to the same concept of the Ultimate.

runninglikezebras

Atheism is a belief in itself. It's the naive belief science has or can answer all questions. You can't be mu'min and remove God from the equation.

Shogunsami

Arman bravo my sentiments exactly

Man_of_Faith

FreedomStands feels like the return of the user 'muslims'.

Salaam

Jafar

Labeling doesn't matter...
What you call yourselves doesn't matter..
Belief doesn't matter...
It's the deed that matter..

There are no chosen people, religion, race, ethnicity, kingdom or nation and there never have been.
There are only arrogant, paranoid, self-righteous and self-deluded bigots that believe they are better and superior than everyone else.
Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth..

FreedomStands

Labeling doesn't matter...
What you call yourselves doesn't matter..
Belief doesn't matter...
It's the deed that matter..

There are no chosen people, religion, race, ethnicity, kingdom or nation and there never have been.
There are only arrogant, paranoid, self-righteous and self-deluded bigots that believe they are better and superior than everyone else.
Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth..

Not much matters, you are Surrendered, willingly or unwillingly, so do what you can and will do to save yourself, and know that it is Allah who saves really, and you can not will anything save if Allah wills it, there is only the will of Allah operative always, we are nothing but slaves.

Man_of_Faith

Freedom,

Why do you speak against yourself. You say do what you can to save yourself is the action does not matter at all?

Jafar,

I find you write something that is true. I call the phenomenon such as when Jesus said "blessed are the meek..." for spiritual affinity and assimilation (with "God), and the relationship between Creator and Creation is a symbiotic one, thus the one who aims towards it will prevail. This is my interpretation of Jesus' expression "I am in the Father and the Father is in me". He did not mean that exclusively for himself but he said that anyone who did like him would be children of the Father. And I feel that he did not literally imply father in his expressions but referred to "creating source", i.e. Creator (Father). He wanted everyone to call Allah/God for Father/Creator. And Jesus intentionally avoided the word Elohim (God in Hebrew) in his rhetoric.

Salaam

FreedomStands

Freedom,
Why do you speak against yourself. You say do what you can to save yourself is the action does not matter at all?

I don't know what your question is here, but I'll try to answer as best I understand its likely intention (though I don't know how I spoke against myself)

On the immediate level, the life of this world, what we experience, there is the clear impression of freedom of choice to do what we desire to do, and so we should work towards what is best, as Allah prescribes and logical reasoning dictates. On the Ultimate level, we are not writing the story at all and never were, nor are we sharing in power with God (Shirk) that we write a portion of the book on our own. The Qur'an says "All is from God" be the "good from Allah" or the "harm from yourselves" "All is from God". That is the Ultimate Truth, the immediate and apparent level it is clear we appear to have the impression of choices and decisions, as do the animals, and are judged for our conduct and all that. So I was never disagreeing with these people who only see and appeal to the immediate impression, but I was speaking of the Ultimate Reality which is that Allah creates all this information and we are part of that information which Allah creates and Allah is not information so we can never "exist" alongside or within or as part of God other than as information created by God, the closest you get to "assimilation" you mentioned is annihilation, otherwise you are currently complete "within God and God within you" right now. So yes we appear to have a free will and do this or that, the greater truth is that Allah does it all, but the immediate appearance is that we have choice so act on that and do what is best for yourselves to gain pleasure and avoid harm in the short and the long term.

This isn't a change in what I was saying, I just noticed lots of people here were very obsessed with "free will" which isn't an important idea at all, its mainly a Western idea just like the "Omni-benevolence" idea which is also false and non-scriptural. The God is Love idea comes from the word Agape meaning "preference" "to give attention to" "to turn towards" and does not mean that God is not the controller of all information including the creator of everything that is evil and everything that is good, Allah also decides what we think is evil and what we think is good.

I was trying to offer people the higher truth, not the immediate appearance which is that we clearly in the immediate appear to decide this or that etc, but the ultimate truth is that Allah wrote us to "Be" and we live by every word God speaks into existence.

Armanaziz

Atheism is a belief in itself. It's the naive belief science has or can answer all questions. You can't be mu'min and remove God from the equation.

Yes of course there is No Faith without God ? fully agreed.

Similarly I can argue there is no Chocolate without Cocoa beans. You cannot have chocolate and remove cocoa beans from the equation.

However, the knowledge that Chocolate comes from Cocoa beans is not or should not be necessary for one to enjoy Chocolate.

Similarly, the knowledge / understanding / belief that our conviction to uphold our conscience and intellect is essentially nothing but faith in ?God? who gifted us those senses is not or should not be necessary for one to enjoy the benefits from his faith (conviction to uphold our inherent sense of right and wrong).

May Allah guide us all to the straight route.

Regards,
Arman

HP_TECH

NO,
the issue is that Paradise will only be assigned to those who committed righteous deeds WHILE they were believers. The Quran stresses this continuously. Do not ignore it.
Furthermore it claims that those who disbelieve will have all their deeds lost in vain.
It doesn't matter how moral an individual is, how many righteous deeds they commit, IF they do not acknowledge. I invite you to revisit the Quran with an unbiased view please.
This neoprogressive movement is of an apologetic nature towards rejecters, deniers, disbelievers, atheists, agnostics, it seems so inclusive at first glance. Yet you despise even more ardently those follow Sunnah and Hadith.
The truth is this neoprogressive movement has become a sect. I see people calling themselves anything but Muslims.
Calling yourself atheists? Incredible, did Allah give you permission for this or do you all invent about Allah the lie?

And who is better in speech than one who invites to Allah and does righteousness and says, "Indeed, I am of the Muslims."

Armanaziz

It is the faith ? not the belief which begets salvation. It is the actions driven by the will of heart, not the utterances of mouth that put a person liable for favor or wrath of God. We, the fraternity of the book, can be deluded that only people possessing knowledge of the book and belief in the book are worthy of salvation ? but God?s mercy and God?s Kingdom is universal. The path towards faith and salvation is open for all

4123 - By neither your wishful thinking, nor the wishful thinking of the fraternity of the book ? whoever acts in wickedness will be repaid for it and will neither find any patron nor any helper from beside God.
4124 And whoever acts out of righteousness ? among male or female ? and is faithful, then they are the ones to enter the garden and they will not be wronged by crumbs.
4125 And who is on an nicer resolution (&#1575 than the one who submits his face to God and he has been nice and follows the religion of Abraham the precise? And God took Abraham as a friend.

(My personal translation, cross checking is recommended.)

Of course we want to be the nicest in our resolution (&#1575 and so we stand firmly upon the religion of Abraham as recommended by Qur'an ? on that there is not an atom of doubt; but we SHOULD refrain from passing judgment about faith of other people based on their utterances of mouth. We observe their actions and as long as they come to us in peace, we do not call them unfaithful as we have been commanded in 494

494 O! Those who have put faith ? when you set forth in God?s path then clarify and do not say to those who offer you peace, ?You are not a faithful? seeking (mere) trifle of the life of the world ? then there are larger booties with God. That?s how you used to be from before. Then God favored upon you ? so clarify. Indeed of how you act - God happens to be All-aware.

(My personal translation, cross checking is recommended.)

For what possible benefit can we get by questioning the faith of peaceful people from other schools of thought? A feeling of superiority in the life of the world? Political edge over people of other religions and sects? Surely there are better rewards with Allah. To Him we all return and then He will settle amongst us in that which we argued.

We can choose to read "Iman" as "belief" and "Kufr" as "disbelief" and thus be deluded that it is not ?Faith in Allah?, rather the ?belief in book? which is the core requirement for God?s forgiveness ? but Qur?an simply doesn?t support that idea. Allah knows what is in the breast of whom and He guides to the straight way WHOMEVER He wills.

Best regards,

Arman

HP_TECH

There is no argument between us.
It is that you are trying to claim something you have invented as true.
You make your own definitions and translations per your choosing.
Why did you translate them as so? How did you do it? What lexicon are you using?

Read chapter 2 over again.
Read 4030-32

4136 Allah establishes His Words and hurls the truth at the falsehood and breaks its head off.

Stop propagating falsehood. Everything in the Quran suggests we ought to acknowledge Allah, His Angels, His Books, His Messengers.

Your Lord has sent you a message and a messenger, what kind of arrogant person would reject his own master's messenger and message?

Man_of_Faith

Among the traditional Muslim translation methods (the commonly known grammar) Arman uses it at the best of its potential (even though it will not even reach even remotely close to what the text really says).

Armanaziz

There is no argument between us.
It is that you are trying to claim something you have invented as true.
You make your own definitions and translations per your choosing.
Why did you translate them as so? How did you do it? What lexicon are you using?

Read chapter 2 over again.
Read 4030-32

4136 Allah establishes His Words and hurls the truth at the falsehood and breaks its head off.

Stop propagating falsehood. Everything in the Quran suggests we ought to acknowledge Allah, His Angels, His Books, His Messengers.

Your Lord has sent you a message and a messenger, what kind of arrogant person would reject his own master's messenger and message?

Peace HP_TECH.

I have provided sufficient supporting verses from Qur'an to support the meanings I am proposing. If you have specific arguments demonstrating how these verses do not say what I am claiming they say you can discuss. We can benefit from such discussion. Of course you are also free to accept or reject without giving your arguments. There is no compulsion in resolution (deen).

If you really mean your first statement that "There is no argument between us." Let's keep it to that and leave it to God to judge who is rejecting Him and His messenger.

Best regards,
Arman

HP_TECH

No argument concerning us, if indeed you believe in Allah alone and submit your face to Him.
Issue is you propagating misconception about what it means to be believer and disbeliever.
Allah grants whomever He wills bounty and favors and raises whomever He wills in degrees.
Allah has granted me of the evident favor. I cannot deny His favor, I will be grateful if Allah so wills, to my Lord by standing firm and speaking out against the falsehood from wherever it comes.

Let me make clear you're right about keeping relations civil and acting justly and kindly towards all people regardless of their affiliations if they are not opposing/oppressing on/fighting us.
But then you have to assess who is not fighting us. Muslims are oppressed and often killed everywhere Myanmar, Sudan, Tibet etcetera. Can you say you follow Quran alone in most parts of the Arab world today and reject Hadith and live peacefully with no harm from government or harassment from people?
Let's consider how Christianity has ran the hugest anti Muslim campaign since the crusades until present. The Zionist project in the Middle East. Taking away land of Arab Muslims to give it to a judochristian nation. The "Westernization" of the world which pushes forth a false democracy to try to drown out what they perceive as Islamic traditional values.
Because of their campaign most Christians( USA, UK, EU) support intervention in Middle East and wars against this "backward" Islamic traditional system of governance. They hate this system of governance, which to them is so foreign, because of their fears and ignorance most hate the Quran and Islam without knowledge and support the expulsion of these people from their land and their killing and they endorse these modern day crusades they want to see "Christianity"/"Westernization"/"Democracy" destroy Islam.

Are these truly peaceful times? Are the majority of these nations who are intervening in the Middle East and qpushing anti Muslim rhetoric ( ISIS, TALEBAN, ALQAEDA) not doing it with the support of their populations?
Are these people not proceeding believing their deen is better? Whether they call it Democracy or Christianity or Judaism, or Buddhism or Hinduism or Atheism, they want to see the Middle East and entire world adopt their deen and reject the idea of a system established by the Last Scripture.

Are Muslims not the most oppressed and discriminated against people in the world today?
In every continent Asia, Africa, Europe, Australia, and even America.

So you are going to have acknowledge that most of the world today does not welcome the deen, and although it is a generalization most are not so peaceful towards Muslims when endorsing anti Muslim rhetoric like we see today in every continent, which fuels support from population for wars and land hijacking Palestine, Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Egypt etcetera.
They celebrate when these countries fall and they pretend they are reformers bringing democracy but Allah knows what's in their breast.

Lastly my argument is not confined to the error I think you made in translating these Ayaahs but it is against your definitions of believers and disbelievers. And although we should not jump to claim everyone is not a believer, does not mean that we should sit back and think that everyone who follows their own deen is saved.

In that case we could all just do what we want as long as we are peaceful to another and we will all be saved?

And what do you mean by peaceful people, that is quite general. Deeds of righteousness go beyond peaceful relations.

The Quran emphasizes how it brought the deen to supersede all other deens. To follow it, because it is the Guidance.

Why would you possibly deceive others by claiming that they should follow their own deen?

Bottom line is you should invite all people to the deen not claim that they should follow their own deen as long as they're "peaceful".
One can be the most "peaceful" person ever but if one does not submit to Allah and acknowledge His deen, can he be saved?

Man_of_Faith

You call what you propose a good 'diin'?

People attack Muslim countries because they act like barbarians. That people oppose Islam is because this is their view of what it presents.

You are more focused on calling better 'diin' than to actually bring forth what it means.

Most humans are misguided on Earth and it is not exclusive for some kind of sectarian group and so it does not have to do with doctrine. People are simply too absorbed in being this primate called 'Homo Sapiens' that they miss this was an imposed contradiction on them and corrupting of their personal integrity. No matter of worship will save people unless they get a hold of themselves and realize that before they vanish spiritually.

Quran is one writing, but it is not the only way of knowing the real account and it is arrogant to show some sort of superiority in your sect Islam. You can find the answer in other texts and Quran is a manifestation of it all.

Your tone of subtle aggression reveals your restless spirit. Do you think you have to go to war because of your Rabb? And what do you fight for? A delusion of being right? What if you are all wrong?

Wellness upon you
Amenuel

HP_TECH

You call what you propose a good 'diin'?

People attack Muslim countries because they act like barbarians. That people oppose Islam is because this is their view of what it presents.

You are more focused on calling better 'diin' than to actually bring forth what it means.

Most humans are misguided on Earth and it is not exclusive for some kind of sectarian group and so it does not have to do with doctrine. People are simply too absorbed in being this primate called 'Homo Sapiens' that they miss this was an imposed contradiction on them and corrupting of their personal integrity. No matter of worship will save people unless they get a hold of themselves and realize that before they vanish spiritually.

Quran is one writing, but it is not the only way of knowing the real account and it is arrogant to show some sort of superiority in your sect Islam. You can find the answer in other texts and Quran is a manifestation of it all.

Your tone of subtle aggression reveals your restless spirit. Do you think you have to go to war because of your Rabb? And what do you fight for? A delusion of being right? What if you are all wrong?

Wellness upon you
Amenuel

Peace

Armanaziz