Is there a single Muslim on this whole website?
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I'm just curious! Is there any Muslim on this entire website? If you consider yourself a Muslim, please let me know what you define that term to mean and how it applies to you, and then tell me also about your God in every possible detail.
I may then ask you some questions, mainly to try to discover what it is you believe, including what it is you leave open ended and may possibly accept.
I will not necessarily say openly if I personally consider you a Muslim or not, and of course all Judgment rests with God Ultimately, but I just want to see what it is you all and each believe and leave open ended, because what I've seen so far are a bunch of people who seem closer to Gnostics in their beliefs and seem to have some strange, not very well thought out ideas they are holding on to.
This thread is mainly for my asking questions and finding out about whoever candidly contributes and answers these questions, I won't be focused in this thread on trying to prove to you anything directly necessarily, but I thought this was a Muslim site for Muslims and those interested in Islam, and I've barely seen that.
Where have all the Muslims gone? I think the moderators are probably Muslims but who are you other people?
Yes, like all human beings are most likely Judgmental, I too am Judgmental, and arrogant, and all those things you might think about me, so don't worry about that or putting me in my place, but instead share with me what each of you are religiously, what do you believe?
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I consider myself "Muslim" though now I prefer to identify myself as one who submits to the will of God. I doubt that anyone who learns anything about me would readily call me a Muslim. Only God and I truly know my degree of faith and understanding. I certainly measure my faith by my attitude towards life, and the way I choose to live my life to which I rarely find others to whom I can relate. I don't know if that's a sad state of affairs, or not. All I know, is that I walk in the path of truth. I know that whole-heartedly.
You've learned a bit about me, and I have no idea what you might say or think. I don't know if any other human being can decide my level of faith or system of belief for me. I know I am not easily understood and rarely followed. Maybe there is only one person on this entire planet who understands, but he is far away both literally and figuratively. Considering you are asking that question on this forum leads me to believe you've already categorized me as non-Muslim. I can save you some trouble in having to reply to this post, by letting you know I disagree.
It would be interesting to know your purpose on this website. Do you want others to return to Islam? How do you define Islam? I have to ask this considering the tragedy that Islam could possibly mean more than one system of belief. No matter which way people seem to view Islam, there is only one true Islam, of course, and God will certainly decide between those who dispute. He will.
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I consider myself "Muslim" though now I prefer to identify myself as one who submits to the will of God. I doubt that anyone who learns anything about me would readily call me a Muslim. Only God and I truly know my degree of faith and understanding. I certainly measure my faith by my attitude towards life, and the way I choose to live my life to which I rarely find others to whom I can relate. I don't know if that's a sad state of affairs, or not. All I know, is that I walk in the path of truth. I know that whole-heartedly.
You've learned a bit about me, and I have no idea what you might say or think. I don't know if any other human being can decide my level of faith or system of belief for me. I know I am not easily understood and rarely followed. Maybe there is only one person on this entire planet who understands, but he is far away both literally and figuratively. Considering you are asking that question on this forum leads me to believe you've already categorized me as non-Muslim. I can save you some trouble in having to reply to this post, by letting you know I disagree.
It would be interesting to know your purpose on this website. Do you want others to return to Islam? How do you define Islam? I have to ask this considering the tragedy that Islam could possibly mean more than one system of belief. No matter which way people seem to view Islam, there is only one true Islam, of course, and God will certainly decide between those who dispute. He will.
Oh yeah, I feel the same way, and I agree with what you wrote in the first paragraph! Also, I wasn't referring to you at all in my post here, I wrote it in a provocative style to get people to respond, though I was thinking more about all the variety of people I've seen on this website who really don't seem to be very much into Islam at all and seem more interested in kind of just somehow being on here with no reference to Islam largely except vague references here and there (in other words, it seems like they don't personally even associate with Islam, that they are from other belief systems and are here to try to talk about those instead, which is fine, but they don't make it clear that they are Gnostic or Non-Muslims or Christians or Hindus or whatever they are, but it comes out in what they write and how its usually pretty hostile even towards anything Islamic).
I have full faith and belief in YOUR faith, I don't doubt and didn't doubt anything you said about your experience or you as a legit good person with a personal relationship with God. I didn't doubt that at all (and this article didn't have you in mind as you don't really post too much in general and I was referring to people who seem to be promoting weird ideas on this website that seem to be opposed to Islam while they are pretending to be Muslims or something).
No way have I categorized you as a non-Muslim. I categorize people who clearly are opposed to the Qur'an and Islam as likely Non-Muslims and I find it weird that they would even care to attempt to use the word when they seem to hate everything about it. So not you at all. Your interest in astrology and that stuff is not a problem, I know lots about astrology and can discuss it with you length too, Vedic, Chinese, Western, and even Islamic and Semitic Astrology! Astrology has a very cool and prolific history which has had lots of influence on the ancient world and their religions which I love to discuss!
I'll write more in a moment but I want you to see this!
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Peace,
People come and go from this forum so you may not at any moment in time get a snapshot of the fundamental faith system that is being upheld.
Many are proud and privileged to be Muslims, some are just looking for answers to ease their doubt, some are looking for a social network, and some are just passing the time...
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It would be interesting to know your purpose on this website. Do you want others to return to Islam? How do you define Islam? I have to ask this considering the tragedy that Islam could possibly mean more than one system of belief. No matter which way people seem to view Islam, there is only one true Islam, of course, and God will certainly decide between those who dispute. He will.
Ok, to answer this third paragraph, here is the tale of my joining this website
I think a friend of mine who is a Muslim mentioned it to me but I never really looked at it or joined it, and then he quoted something one day which I looked on good and it was a quote only from a poster on this website who had just joined. I saw that they said they were lonely and a Muslim so I wanted to talk to them and help them out with Islam if I could.
I joined the website in order to send them a message, that was my first post or so on this website if you look at my history.
Once I was joined and going to wait for the replies of these people who I had messaged, I thought I might also share with some of the Muslims here (I had no idea at the time that this website didn't have too much frequent activity and what kind of activity it was).
I was happy that it claimed to be a website interested in the Qur'an which also did not take the Hadith too seriously, and had not expected this place to be full of people spreading misinformation and refusing to acknowledge any normal information and continuing to promote stuff that had nothing directly to do with the Qur'an or Islam but their own stuff and not providing any evidence or anything.
Such people I find irritating no matter what kind of website they are on, I hate misinformation and lies and refusing to acknowledge any legit information.
I also saw people repeatedly trying to discredit the Qur'an! On a Qur'an website! Insulting it and insulting God and doing all sorts of blasphemies, and I asked them what the heck are they even doing on this website if they don't like Islam or the Qur'an and don't even want to learn about it then what is the point? They just come here to mock it and deride it and not listen? These are the people who seem to be far away from Islam, not you, you never did any of that or said anything that even hinted at that the way some of the people here behave.
Then there are others, who come spreading stuff like how the Earth is flat or whatever agendas to try to put Muslims in a hole so they can be made fun of, even if their intentions are good their ignorance is quite disgusting, like really sickens me to see.
Others go so far as to deny anything exists at all or imply that possibly they aren't experiencing anything at all in any form? Which is quite frankly retarded, like literally what a person who is mentally deficient and incapable of using language properly or understanding anything might say.
So in the time I've been here, I've mostly noticed lots of disgusting broken minds at work that seem to not even function at any workable level, but I've made some worthwhile speeches so I think it was certainly worth it, and there are some good people here too of course who are probably Muslims.
I was also disgusted with people wanting to remove verses from the Qur'an in order to make the Qur'an specifically match up to some number they love, and others just spamming number equations without much explanation.
So much garbage on this website and garbage thinking, you were not among these people I am talking about so I wasn't referring to you at all.
I work with serious academic sources and history and also talk about necessary things at the most basic level, like the most simple truths that we can know, such as "there is stuff" "the stuff is what I call information" "the stuff can not create itself for reasons I've mentioned" "the stuff is powered by what I call the Ultimate" "the Ultimate is not made of information but generates it and powers it, creating and destroying it, and is what I call God".
If someone doesn't believe God is the Ultimate, then they are worshiping something less than the Ultimate. If someone believes God has a face or a body or any of that, that face and that body is information only, and God is not information or encompassed entirely by any information but encompasses information, and if one believes God is encompassed, then they don't know Allah.
A Muslim is simply someone who surrenders to Allah and worships Allah as the ancients had done throughout all the ages.
When I find out so many people on this website have a poor concept of Allah and do not even worship Allah in any form at all, what kind of Muslims are these? They are not Muslims at all it seems, but just using the words Islam and Muslim and are clearly non-believers who neither believe in Allah in any acceptable form (and are idolatrous in their ideas) and spread shirk and corruption, and to top it off don't even worship God in any form and even hate the word worship and get hung up over petty things.
In other words, its either this place give the impression of being hypocrisy central or kaffirville, which is sad to see for a Muslim website.
There are those who appear to be Muslims on this website who do not work to discredit the Qur'an and do not spread really harmful errors or misinformation, and those are not who I was referring to.
Also, I'm quite annoyed with how many of the people use these completely empty tag words like "Peace" and whatever else, when they don't even mean it or wish it probably with any sincerity and usually insult and then follow it up with "Peace" which is just more hypocrisy which I abhor.
I am tolerant of pretty much all religions and even the ancient "pagan" ones because I am very familiar with them and how they all had reference to Allah in them and often even said good things while the common folk followed silly ideas.
So after my initial reason for coming here, I decided to try to communicate with some of the people here and answer some of the things they were saying but got a really bad response for what I've said for the most part.
Everyone trying to basically say I'm saying something bad when I'm using the Qur'an and they generally don't even seem to believe in the Qur'an and spend their time insulting it mainly.
So to all those types, I really do not favor them or like them much for their activities, and I especially find people who are so contentious as to refuse even the vaguest sense of the existence of ANYTHING AT ALL (stuff, information, experience, whatever) to be the most revolting and repulsive types of people.
So generally, I've produced some really great material, but have had an overall bad experience with this website and most of the people on it save a few.
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Peace,
People come and go from this forum so you may not at any moment in time get a snapshot of the fundamental faith system that is being upheld.
Many are proud and privileged to be Muslims, some are just looking for answers to ease their doubt, some are looking for a social network, and some are just passing the time...
Thank you Layth, I often accidentally click "back" or something and come upon your post and seeing you freaks me out a bit because for a moment I think that you've posted and are warning me that I'll be banned soon or something haha.
Thank you for posting here. I think the Mods on this website are real Muslims and know the fundamentals but there seem to be a whole lot of non-Muslims sneaking around on here with bad agendas, even if they don't realize it.
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http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607125.msg362395#msg362395
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Salamun Alaikum.
Perhaps you should help us underdstand what is your definition of "Muslim"?
If you already mentioned in any other thread, giving a quote would suffice.May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
ArmanThis thread is designed to make people announce if they are Muslims or not, what that word means to them, and what makes them a Muslim in their opinion and what their religious or devotional practices are.
I will begin
I am a Muslim. I also consider myself every other religion. I attach all these things to a central framework of ideas about God being the Ultimate and Surrendering to God only and thereby also finding peace.
I perform worship throughout the day, 5 times or more, in the fashion that has been common to Muslims around the world for long generations and was practiced even before this Qur'an was sent down by Zoroastrians and their 5 Gahs and Buddhists and Hindus and Egyptians and Christians and Yemenite Jews and whoever else throughout history (the whole world, even Aztecs and Sumerians used to practice these kinds of things and worship God, yet the common folk still did many bad things or had bad ideas often).
People who do not worship at all, I do not really think they are Muslims. They may be believers, but they seem to be taken away from worship.
When I worship, I face the sanctuary at Mecca, and this is what separates also who believes in the Qur'an mentioning this or seeming to mention this and who doesn't in some ways, but it isn't even as important to me as worshiping, but I find nothing objectionable to having an organized direction when I know fully what Allah is and I'm not worshiping Mecca as some foolish people might claim.
I am pretty much a traditional and standard Muslim like those who existed in the early days as well, though I do not have much respect for the Hadith, I take them as what they are, things written down in a later period, possibly based on stories in circulation, that can not be verified and differ in some ways in their style from the Qur'an due to their being just what they are. If anything is useful, one can say that it is written in such and such Hadith written at such and such time that such and such is recommended, but not to take it anywhere in comparison to the Qur'an, so I am moderate about the Hadith, and many things it says I have strong reasons to consider blasphemous and wrong.
I follow the Qur'an very closely and strictly, and the Qur'an confirms the truth and the logical common sense things that I am already aware of, and if the Qur'an did blasphemy, I would reject it or reject that part, but it does not do blasphemy and says everything good and logical and can be used as a very useful and clear book of guidance.
So I think I'm a real deal Muslim, even by the standards of Sunni and Shia in some senses, but not the extremist types who are often blasphemers.
One of the biggest blasphemies they do and say, which was not a part of early Islam and was the cause of people being imprisoned at times for blasphemy, (but then later it became mainstream) is to say the Qur'an is co-eternal with Allah. Allah created the Qur'an and absolutely everything and has no co-eternal, how dare anyone does such a big shirk in the name of Islam or their foolish idea of piety. Though if they mean "the word of Allah" as in the intrinsic ability of Allah to create things by his power to manifest information, then that isn't really wrong, but if they mean this specific book with Pharoah mentioned in it and whatever else, then they are blasphemers of the highest order.
I have a strong fanatic streak, and I despise blasphemers with a passion and await the fire to consume them Insha'Allah. I hate evildoers completely, and I think it is right to hate evildoers.
I practice compassion towards all creatures and creations, and I try to be gentle always and to everything, even gentle to rocks and whatever else, just moving gently in the world and especially trying to avoid creating trouble or anxiety or fear for animals and helping them and never killing them. I am not against the eating of meat though or slaughter for food or whatever else, but I believe we are like animals, they seek food and sustenance as we do, and we should be loving and compassionate and kind to animals and all creatures, even insects, as they are like us and we are like them, and we should feed them and take care of them and help them and give them ease just as we would want ease from God and help from God.
My motto is Do Unto Others (All Creatures, All in Existence, Everything, Even Inanimate Seeming Things) as one would want God to do unto you.
This is my religion. I surrender wholly to Allah and realize I am surrendered to Allah, I can not defeat Allah.
All idolatry should be eradicated from our minds so that we conclude with the only necessary things, which I've explained carefully here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607171.msg362129#msg362129
Also, we should KNOW without a DOUBT what we are worshiping, and why, and not flirt with "maybe God has a face" but we should KNOW why God is exactly what God is and doesn't have a face or whatever else, as I demonstrate in the above article.
There should be no doubt.
I don't believe in this "don't judge anyone" silliness. We must "judge" in some sense to distinguish between evil and good, right and wrong, and Kaffir behaviors and Muslim behaviors.
A Kaffir is basically one who does evil, and usually is entangled in various forms of shirk and arrogance.
The Muslim is like me and believes like I've mentioned and worships Allah and surrenders to Allah only.
If anyone denies that Allah alone is the sole power and the sole creator of absolutely everything, they are "making partners" and saying there are other powers or other creators of anything, and they are doing the unforgivable sin of Shirk, and if they die in that state, Hell is supposed to be their home according to the Qur'an, the matter is utterly serious, and Allah certainly with out a doubt has the power to bring about that reality.
If Allah is not feared, one surely has no comprehension of what Allah really is or is capable of, because Allah is free and unbounded and is the most powerful, you must fear Allah and guard yourself if you can by doing good from the harm Allah can bring about, and Allah can even harm the righteous but our only hope and reliance rests in Allah because only Allah can help us or save us or give us any good experiences, so it all goes back to Allah and there is no other savior but God alone who is not like any of us or any human and is not made of information like we are made of information, and I explain why that absolutely is a necessary thing and not conjecture in my post that I linked.
So who here denies that I am a Muslim? I am very clearly a Muslim, even by the standards of the Sunni and the Shia very likely, and anyone who disputes it is a liar, and anyone who thinks Allah is not the sole power or the sole creator is a blasphemer and a shirki idolater and I quite frankly despise them utterly and await their final demise in hell, which for the believers is a glorious triumphant moment when the enemies who always worked against us will finally get what they truly deserve! Allah the magnificent and wonderful creator of everything and sole power! Who can torture the evildoers who performed so much mischief and were such a thorn in our lives and were cruel to man and animal alike, will finally burn! To hell with them!
I am all those other religions because religions are often just linguistic frameworks of words attached to certain ideas, and those words can be hijacked and used to refer to the same concepts as those found in Islam, and basically each religion either says the same thing or can be made to say the same thing in a great number of cases.
I believe in operating strategically, and not following whims or anything except carefully thought out strategy with exhaustive thinking to rule out everything. To seek the ultimate pleasure and avoid the ultimate harm and also to avoid harm in the short and the long term and seek the good things in the short and the long term and be appreciate of them to Allah who is the source of everything ultimately and there is no other provider or dispenser ultimately.
I believe in communicating to people in their languages to try to get the best results (but I've seen some of the worst results communicating on this website with some of the most contentious and gross people I've ever encountered, who seem very far away from Islam often).
Like I said, I'm a fanatic too, and if someone militantly wants to destroy the Qur'an or officially remove parts of it, it brings up an urge to want to slaughter such monsters. Not that I fear the Qur'an can be harmed or that I'm worried about the Qur'an, just because I really really hate anyone who wants to remove things from the Qur'an in order to justify the Hadiths or justify various "codes" or systems or whatever else.
People who destroy works of art also get my rage, I hate such people as well.
George Lucas is despised for trying to change his own movie Star Wars haha.
Anyway, that is a little about me and my Islam.
I fast during Ramadan (and do all the famous "five pillars", I do good and give charity when I am able and at every opportunity I try to be pleasant and good but I am still stern when it comes to disbelief and blasphemies and I hate blasphemers and have no love for the wicked but secretly or openly wish for their horrific demise.
I am just being open and honest with you all, I don't believe in silly "oh we all must be positive all the time" kind of ideas, I believe there is value in all kinds of things for us, as long as we hate injustice, and love good.
I dislike also all the meaningless "peace, peace" that goes on here all the while people insult each other, and me, and Islam, haha it seems like huge hypocrisy.
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Salamun Alaikum.
Perhaps you should help us underdstand what is your definition of "Muslim"?
If you already mentioned in any other thread, giving a quote would suffice.May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
ArmanAlso, from what I can gather so far, you appear to be a Muslim on this website, and I've liked what you have written.
hawk99 seems to be a Muslim, Faruk, Tauriel, Martha, huruf, the mods like Layth and Wakas, and many others I've encountered, but there also seems to be a bunch of blasphemers and an undercurrent of evildoers snaking around here.
goodlogic also seems to be a Muslim, but I'm not totally sure if he is into the removal of two verses of the Qur'an, but if he worships Allah then he seems alright, he also had initially said some things which seemed good as Islamic.
Now even if a person prays and worships, but their worship is directed to idols, idolatrous ideas, God as a man, a man, any information, God as a form or icon or idol or image, God with a face, or believing that God might have a face that they just don't know, or a God who has partners, a God who shares power (shirk), a God who is not the sole creator, a God who is created, a God who is encompassed entirely by a form or information and is not powerful over it, a God who is acted upon and is conditioned, a God who is partnered with other powers, other creators, or a God that is at battle with some forces, or a God that is in "need" or has "needs" or "gets bored" or whatever else, all these are blasphemous concepts and those who worship such a God, their worship is in vain in my opinion anyway but Allah could forgive them of course for their retardation and shirk and guide them rightly too or forgive them even without guiding them.
My point in mentioning the above was to list all the different kinds of ideas of God that are false and shirk-like and evil, and to point out that worship in that case is pointless and wasted, like worshiping Jesus or any idol who are equally just information or "stuff" created by God alone ultimately.
So the proper understanding is absolutely necessary, to KNOW what you are worshiping and why, and not even have an opening or doubt that thinks maybe God is any of those false things, those false things come from not reasoning to the very end and exhausting the possibilities and thinking of what is absolutely necessary and why certain things absolutely can not be, as I've explained here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607171.msg362129#msg362129
and in the follow up posts there.
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Salamun Alaikum.
Since you replied to my query with a fairly detailed reply, I?d guess it is my turn to share my ideas with you.
Let me first define my understanding of the term ?Muslim?. I like to differentiate between the terms ?Muslim? and ?muslim?. ?Muslim? as a proper noun refers to the people who belong to a religious + cultural + political group which goes by the label ?Islam?. Whereas ?muslim? is an adjective that refers to anyone who has willingly ?surrendered? to the One who gave us all the gift of life (namely God/Allah). The surrender is not a verbal act of saying ?I surrender? rather the surrender is the one expressed by acting upon / upholding the senses of right and wrong, good and bad that God/Allah has given each of us.
I try to be a muslim ? since I do not understand ?muslim? as a label, I cannot say I am a muslim. Being or remaining muslim is a continuous process and I pray to Allah to make me muslim (submissive) to Him.
I am not fascinated by ?Islam? as a label of religion and ?Muslim? as the name of someone carrying that label. It is my understanding that these labels are artificially defined. However, ?by birth? I am part of the community which accepts these labels and I have not yet denounced these labels because I am still not sure if such a formal denouncement is either meaningful or necessary.
If I am asked what is my religion, my answer is I follow ?Religion of Abraham?. I recognize ?Religion of Abraham? as a distinct religion which
- Acknowledges faith in ?personified? attributes of God/Allah to be the best approach to understand/conceptualize God/Allah (given the limitations of human intellect).
- Accepts the idea that God/Allah can inspire ?chosen? messengers to communicate message from God/Allah to mankind.
- Endorses practice of religion as a community (not only a personal spiritual undertaking) and brings the community together by practicing ?rituals? to worship God/Allah in communitywide uniform format.
I understand Judaism, Christianity, Shiaism, Sunnism, Bahaism, Ahmedia, Submitter, ?ahle hadith?, ?ahle Qur?an? ? all to be various ?unnecessary? sects within the religion of Abraham.
I try to perform worship throughout the day, 5 times or more, in the fashion that I have been taught to perform by my community. I have carefully examined the formats and I do not find anything deeply problematic in the format with either my common sense or the Qur?an. Rather the consistency of format with my community gives me the platform to engage with my community which I accept as my ?duty? within the framework of ?Religion of Abraham?. I believe we need rituals/worship for our own benefit (not because God/Allah needs them) and ?traditional? worship format - as is - can be sufficiently useful if we learn to emphasize substance over form.
I do not believe ?Religion of Abraham? to be the only valid or acceptable religion for one to be a muslim. I acknowledge Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Moralist Deism etc. to be various potentially valid systems of religion outside the fold of ?Religion of Abraham?. Hence I am not fully in agreement with the below statement
People who do not worship at all, I do not really think they are Muslims. They may be believers, but they seem to be taken away from worship.
If by ?Muslim? the religious label is indicated ? then perhaps yes, but per my humble understanding to be muslim ? binding or committing oneself to a specific set of worship rituals is not an absolutely mandatory condition. It may be possible for even irreligious people to be muslim as long as? they surrender by acting upon / upholding the senses of right and wrong, good and bad that God/Allah has given each of us. However, I observe that just like religion of "Islam" every other religion had their fair share of corruption and polticization.
When it comes to messengers I believe in all of them (even those outside Abrahamic religion) as long as they taught their followers to be muslim; i.e. to surrender by acting upon / upholding the senses of right and wrong, good and bad that God/Allah has given each of us. However, while I do not ?differentiate? between them (that is, I consider all their teaching equally valid and capable of leading their followers to the right path), I acknowledge that it is not practical to follow indefinite number of messengers. So, I have primarily chosen Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as ?my messenger? and ?Qur?an? as my scripture from whose teaching I try to derive guidance. I face ?Masjid-al-Haram? in Mekkah during my salat ritual as a symbolic expression of my acceptance. I do not consider being ?selective? same as ?differentiating? which is unfortunately a very common confusion in this forum.
I do not accept Hadith literature to be an essential requirement to understand Qur?an or to be muslim.
I take messenger and scripture as only my guide and reminder. Under no circumstances I?d allow a scripture to overrule my God-gifted conscience and intellect, because then I would be taking the messenger / scripture as partner to God and that would be shirk.
May Allah help us all to be muslim.
Regards,
Arman -
If anyone denies that Allah alone is the sole power and the sole creator of absolutely everything, they are "making partners" and saying there are other powers or other creators of anything, and they are doing the unforgivable sin of Shirk, and if they die in that state, Hell is supposed to be their home according to the Qur'an, the matter is utterly serious, and Allah certainly with out a doubt has the power to bring about that reality.
FreedomStands,
Why is shirk unforgivable? Why do people do it?
You used the word "reality". Did you not mean "information"?
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Salamun Alaikum.
Since you replied to my query with a fairly detailed reply, I?d guess it is my turn to share my ideas with you.
Let me first define my understanding of the term ?Muslim?. I like to differentiate between the terms ?Muslim? and ?muslim?. ?Muslim? as a proper noun refers to the people who belong to a religious + cultural + political group which goes by the label ?Islam?. Whereas ?muslim? is an adjective that refers to anyone who has willingly ?surrendered? to the One who gave us all the gift of life (namely God/Allah). The surrender is not a verbal act of saying ?I surrender? rather the surrender is the one expressed by acting upon / upholding the senses of right and wrong, good and bad that God/Allah has given each of us.
I try to be a muslim ? since I do not understand ?muslim? as a label, I cannot say I am a muslim. Being or remaining muslim is a continuous process and I pray to Allah to make me muslim (submissive) to Him.
I am not fascinated by ?Islam? as a label of religion and ?Muslim? as the name of someone carrying that label. It is my understanding that these labels are artificially defined. However, ?by birth? I am part of the community which accepts these labels and I have not yet denounced these labels because I am still not sure if such a formal denouncement is either meaningful or necessary.
If I am asked what is my religion, my answer is I follow ?Religion of Abraham?. I recognize ?Religion of Abraham? as a distinct religion which
- Acknowledges faith in ?personified? attributes of God/Allah to be the best approach to understand/conceptualize God/Allah (given the limitations of human intellect).
- Accepts the idea that God/Allah can inspire ?chosen? messengers to communicate message from God/Allah to mankind.
- Endorses practice of religion as a community (not only a personal spiritual undertaking) and brings the community together by practicing ?rituals? to worship God/Allah in communitywide uniform format.
I understand Judaism, Christianity, Shiaism, Sunnism, Bahaism, Ahmedia, Submitter, ?ahle hadith?, ?ahle Qur?an? ? all to be various ?unnecessary? sects within the religion of Abraham.
I try to perform worship throughout the day, 5 times or more, in the fashion that I have been taught to perform by my community. I have carefully examined the formats and I do not find anything deeply problematic in the format with either my common sense or the Qur?an. Rather the consistency of format with my community gives me the platform to engage with my community which I accept as my ?duty? within the framework of ?Religion of Abraham?. I believe we need rituals/worship for our own benefit (not because God/Allah needs them) and ?traditional? worship format - as is - can be sufficiently useful if we learn to emphasize substance over form.
I do not believe ?Religion of Abraham? to be the only valid or acceptable religion for one to be a muslim. I acknowledge Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Moralist Deism etc. to be various potentially valid systems of religion outside the fold of ?Religion of Abraham?. Hence I am not fully in agreement with the below statement
If by ?Muslim? the religious label is indicated ? then perhaps yes, but per my humble understanding to be muslim ? binding or committing oneself to a specific set of worship rituals is not an absolutely mandatory condition. It may be possible for even irreligious people to be muslim as long as? they surrender by acting upon / upholding the senses of right and wrong, good and bad that God/Allah has given each of us. However, I observe that just like religion of "Islam" every other religion had their fair share of corruption and polticization.
When it comes to messengers I believe in all of them (even those outside Abrahamic religion) as long as they taught their followers to be muslim; i.e. to surrender by acting upon / upholding the senses of right and wrong, good and bad that God/Allah has given each of us. However, while I do not ?differentiate? between them (that is, I consider all their teaching equally valid and capable of leading their followers to the right path), I acknowledge that it is not practical to follow indefinite number of messengers. So, I have primarily chosen Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as ?my messenger? and ?Qur?an? as my scripture from whose teaching I try to derive guidance. I face ?Masjid-al-Haram? in Mekkah during my salat ritual as a symbolic expression of my acceptance. I do not consider being ?selective? same as ?differentiating? which is unfortunately a very common confusion in this forum.
I do not accept Hadith literature to be an essential requirement to understand Qur?an or to be muslim.
I take messenger and scripture as only my guide and reminder. Under no circumstances I?d allow a scripture to overrule my God-gifted conscience and intellect, because then I would be taking the messenger / scripture as partner to God and that would be shirk.
May Allah help us all to be muslim.
Regards,
ArmanBEHOLD! A MUSLIM! (haha capitalized so one can not distinguish which I mean).
What you wrote is perfectly good, and I agree Islam and Muslim are action words in my view and you must be DOING Islam and BEING a Muslim at any given moment.
I believe everyone is surrendered to Allah, but those particularly aware of their state of surrender and helplessness before the power of Allah and follow through with worship and good deeds will hopefully be rewarded and can come from religions from around the world and existed in the past and may have had different specific rituals but ironically if you look throughout history you'll find the prostration gesture of the kowtow and all that all across the world and they amazingly seem very similar to us.
What you have said though is absolutely sufficient and appropriate and I suspected you were a Muslim by the normal standards all along.
I agree with the rejection of some aspects of the hajj, like I don't want to do the stoning thing or whatever, but other aspects are mentioned in the Qur'an and I'm fine with those.
I'm so pleased that you're a Muslim and also in a Muslim community even, I am a Muslim too but all alone and have no contact with other Muslims almost entirely for now.
So here, do you all see? What he said is right and good, and he is a Muslim even by the standard definitions or concept, and he does all the things that I do too, and he and I belong to the same religion and we don't belong to any "sects", and we take Muhammed as our Prophet, the Prophet of our period and the message of the Qur'an but would reject the Qur'an if it goes against what is true or blasphemies God or gives ill advice (but by the Grace of God, it doesn't appear to do those things at this moment).
So blessed be the Muslims (sorry for using the term Muslims or whatever, I just mean it in general in whatever senses you might prefer, I don't make too big of a distinction really).
Are there any other Muslims here? What he said and announced shows a real proper Muslim in my opinion. He prays and prays more if he wants to, and all that is beautiful and acceptable and so SO thrilling and good to hear.
I am so sickened and discouraged when I hear about hypocrites and kaffirs and their shirk filled views, even when they try to pretend they are "Muslims" without doing anything like Armanaziz or I or Martha even or Layth and Wakas and the other Muslims on this website.
So who else is a Muslim? This is triumphant and makes me so happy, I'm so happy when I hear about the existence of another Muslim.
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FreedomStands,
Why is shirk unforgivable? Why do people do it?
You used the word "reality". Did you not mean "information"?
Yes, all "realities" are made of information, "reality" means "right now whatever you are experiencing, all and any experience you are having right now". The "Ultimate Reality" is beyond these "realities" and is God alone, who is not made of information but creates all the realities and encompasses them, that is why God can be called the Ultimate Reality because it is what is encompassing all the information it generates and in a sense is the "place" where all this is occurring.
Shirk is unforgivable or a thing not to be forgiven simply because God can decide to make anything God wants "not to be forgiven" and God can still forgive it anyway, but the Qur'an warns people in such a way that God says basically that God won't forgive people who die in a state of making partners in power with God and this decision is one that God can make freely, God can make a law that "cows eaten on Tuesdays will get you to heaven" so it doesn't really matter as to "why", but basically it is a misdirection of worship and attribution of powers to any other thing besides God.
Shirk means "sharing" and means anything, even concepts, "sharing power" with God or made over God or confining God or partnered with God or whatever. God alone has power and is not made of information and so is not an idol or an icon or an image of any kind.
People do shirk because God created this thing called shirk and all these ideas related to it which are all just information that occurs in the experience of some people, and they do it out of not thinking things through properly or understanding things exhaustively and they do it out of arrogance too and basic dumbness, at times thinking they share power with God or that God is a creature and there are other forms and creatures sharing power with God or in more subtle ways like making co-powers with God like "Justice" or "Time" that condition or act upon God or "cause God" or "force God" to do things in their false imaginings.
So to answer in short
Shirk means "sharing" and refers to "sharing of powers with God in any form" in this context. It is designated in the Qur'an as an unforgivable sin and that the worship of those in shirk is basically misdirected and made wasted by God and God can easily make any such laws and follow through on them.
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Regarding using Peace to greet others who you assume are Muslim
God tells us in Quran Sura 654
When those who believe in our revelations come to you, you shall say" Salamun Aleykum" (peace be upon you)Sura 486
When greeted with a greeting, you shall respond with a better greeting or at least an equal one. -
Regarding using Peace to greet others who you assume are Muslim
God tells us in Quran Sura 654
When those who believe in our revelations come to you, you shall say" Salamun Aleykum" (peace be upon you)Sura 486
When greeted with a greeting, you shall respond with a better greeting or at least an equal one.Haha yes indeed. I agree too, but I find it insincere when they do it like robots without thinking and follow their "peace" with insults and blasphemies and then conclude their insults and blasphemies with "Salam", it shows they don't mean it at all towards some people and are just doing it wastefully and falsely. I don't wish any peace for evildoers. Peace be upon all and only the most excellent and wonderful servants of Allah, and any true servant of Allah is most excellent and wonderful. To hell with the rest of them (this may be of interest)
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607179.msg362438;topicseen#msg362438
Here is one that convicts me worse than those you mentioned
494
O ye who believe! When ye go forth (to fight) in the way of Allah, be careful to discriminate, and say not unto one who offereth you peace "Thou art not a believer," seeking the chance profits of this life (so that ye may despoil him). With Allah are plenteous spoils. Even thus (as he now is) were ye before; but Allah hath since then been gracious unto you. Therefore take care to discriminate. Allah is ever Informed of what ye do.
My whole point though was that they appear to be insincere in their "peace" since they follow it up with insults and blasphemies.
28
And there are some people who say We believe in Allah and the last day; and they are not at all believers.211
When it is said to them "Make not mischief on the earth," they say "Why, we only Want to make peace!"213
And when it is said unto them believe as the people believe (Believe as Arman,FreedomStands,Faruk), they say shall we believe as the foolish believe? are not they indeed the foolish? But they know not. -
@Freedom You said ...So to all those types, I really do not favor them or like them much for their activities, and I especially find people who are so contentious as to refuse even the vaguest sense of the existence of ANYTHING AT ALL (stuff, information, experience, whatever) to be the most revolting and repulsive types of people.
Have you asked yourself if this is a Quranic response, the kind of response that God expects from a Muslim or Believer?
Everyone is at different stages of religious and spiritual development and what someone believes today can change in the future, given more knowledge and guidance. God tells us in Quran sura 41, verse 34
"Not equal is the good response and the bad response. You shall resort to the nicest possible response. Thus the one who used to be your enemy, may become your best friend."
The above verse tells us that one criteria for judging who is truly a Muslim is in the way they respond to disbelievers and those with different religious understandings! The arrogance of ego can cause one to forget the implications of this verse.
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Yes, all "realities" are made of information, "reality" means "right now whatever you are experiencing, all and any experience you are having right now". The "Ultimate Reality" is beyond these "realities" and is God alone, who is not made of information but creates all the realities and encompasses them, that is why God can be called the Ultimate Reality because it is what is encompassing all the information it generates and in a sense is the "place" where all this is occurring.
Shirk is unforgivable or a thing not to be forgiven simply because God can decide to make anything God wants "not to be forgiven" and God can still forgive it anyway, but the Qur'an warns people in such a way that God says basically that God won't forgive people who die in a state of making partners in power with God and this decision is one that God can make freely, God can make a law that "cows eaten on Tuesdays will get you to heaven" so it doesn't really matter as to "why", but basically it is a misdirection of worship and attribution of powers to any other thing besides God.
Shirk means "sharing" and means anything, even concepts, "sharing power" with God or made over God or confining God or partnered with God or whatever. God alone has power and is not made of information and so is not an idol or an icon or an image of any kind.
People do shirk because God created this thing called shirk and all these ideas related to it which are all just information that occurs in the experience of some people, and they do it out of not thinking things through properly or understanding things exhaustively and they do it out of arrogance too and basic dumbness, at times thinking they share power with God or that God is a creature and there are other forms and creatures sharing power with God or in more subtle ways like making co-powers with God like "Justice" or "Time" that condition or act upon God or "cause God" or "force God" to do things in their false imaginings.
So to answer in short
Shirk means "sharing" and refers to "sharing of powers with God in any form" in this context. It is designated in the Qur'an as an unforgivable sin and that the worship of those in shirk is basically misdirected and made wasted by God and God can easily make any such laws and follow through on them.
I agree shirk something simply that God has made unforgivable just because he can and wanted to. However there is something more to it which is needed for our reality. First we have to understand our reality. Who are we, what is our purpose, what is our reality, what is going to happen to use now and in the future.
I'm going to use the term reality as I find your concept of "information" unnecessary and confusing. (My suggestion to you is to use "reality" for other people as well as it's something people are familiar with. You could simply say "reality is everything we perceive with our senses" and I think everyone would understand and relate to it.)
So, in our reality we have life, death, happiness, sadness, families, pain, suffering, languages, etc. etc. What is the goal of every human being? It's to be happy, content, learn, satisfied, feel secure, etc. What don't we want? We don't want to suffer, have pain, be confused, be lonely, have doubts, see our loved ones suffer be in pain, etc. etc.
We have been put in a world where both good and evil exists, happiness and sadness, enlightenment and confusion, etc. We have been given an innate sense of what is good and evil. We have been given the ability recognise arrogance and be arrogant, to recognise ignorance and be ignorant. We have a soul which has been given the ability to perceive all these things through our physical senses and have been given the ability to understand things. We have also been given the ability to learn and correct ourselves so that we can get rid of our negative properties and become good.
God created us to be good. Being good means living life the way God wants you to live so that you can be rewarded on the Day of Judgment. It's God who decides what is good and evil.
Now then as human beings we have been given the free will/choice to do as we please. We can be arrogant, ignorant, kill, cause pain, lie, cheat, etc. When some people do shirk they are saying that another entity has some abilities of God. When they do this they are saying something from their own desire and not the desire of God. Depending on what the new entity they are calling god is determines what that entity is a god of and what they desire. For example a person may make up a god called Mars who is the god of war. There desire is to have a god which will help them win wars. They may want to win wars so that they can rule of other countries or kill their enemies or acquire more wealth and power to satisfy their own lust and desire for worldly things. When they do this there will most likely be injustice, pain, suffering caused to people both of their own party and the party they fight against.
Another people may create an entity who they call the god of rain. They create this entity so that they can have plenty of crops, increase in power, satisfy their hunger, etc. etc.
Now when these false gods have been created what get's lost is their true purpose in life. Their true purpose in life is to learn about the true God because they will without doubt meet him one day. When they meet him he will ask them did you help the poor, administer justice, pray to me, fast, learn forgiveness, learn and be humble, seek my path, etc. Now if they say we were worshipping the god of Mars and were busy fighting and conquering or enslaving populations or they may say we were worshipping the god of rain and busy increasing our crops and acquiring wealth which also happened to make us arrogant and we became unaware of this Day of Judgement then these people have become misguided. It could be entirely down to them just following their fathers as to not disrespect them and they did it without malice. However the fact remains they haven't done what God created them for.
So simply because one or a group of people decided it would be a good idea to create a god or lack of god to fulfil their own desires they have inadvertently mislead many of their descendants and at the same time may have caused much suffering as well as ignorance of the Day of Judgement.
I believe this is one of the reason why God made shirk a huge sin. It's implications are massive. God can simply forgive everyone for their ignorance but he's not going to has he has already given his Word. Quran 3213-14.
3213 And if we had willed, We could have given every soul its guidance, but the word from Me will come into effect "I will surely fill Hell with jinn and people all together.
3214 So taste because you forgot the meeting of this, your Day; indeed, We have forgotten you. And taste the punishment of eternity for what you used to do."I think there's another verse in the Quran where God give his Word about filling hell with jinn and men. The point is God has given his Word and he's not going to take it back. We relate to this when we give our word to do certain things in our lives. Once we give our word we have an innate sense of fulfilling it. God has given this innate sense so that we understand what his Word means just many other innate senses God has given to use so that we get to know God.
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@Freedom You said ...So to all those types, I really do not favor them or like them much for their activities, and I especially find people who are so contentious as to refuse even the vaguest sense of the existence of ANYTHING AT ALL (stuff, information, experience, whatever) to be the most revolting and repulsive types of people.
Have you asked yourself if this is a Quranic response, the kind of response that God expects from a Muslim or Believer?
Everyone is at different stages of religious and spiritual development and what someone believes today can change in the future, given more knowledge and guidance. God tells us in Quran sura 41, verse 34
"Not equal is the good response and the bad response. You shall resort to the nicest possible response. Thus the one who used to be your enemy, may become your best friend."
The above verse tells us that one criteria for judging who is truly a Muslim is in the way they respond to disbelievers and those with different religious understandings! The arrogance of ego can cause one to forget the implications of this verse.
You're right Lena, and your response is a good one, but I have not been cruel to anyone on this website really.
When I say that someone who denies the existence of "anything at all" is revolting to me, I am sharing an honest feeling candidly and not hiding it from people. I did not say you personally disgust me, you personally are ugly, you personally are a horrible person. I didn't specify anyone really, I said it in a general fashion because in a general fashion anyone who says that, I find such a statement to be absolutely disgusting and the person who is contentious and denies even the existence of "any information at all" to literally by definition be claiming to be "deaf, dumb, and blind".
So though you are absolutely correct that we should speak in a kindly manner with well selected words, sharing honest feelings of disgust about particular things is not "speaking badly" to people.
If I say that I am revolted by child molestation or animal abuse, it is not a matter of "oh no, speak kindly to animal abusers everywhere, oh you must not expose to the world what you hate and despise".
No, I will say freely that I find child molestation and animal abuse abhorrent, and I hate child molesters and animal abusers with a passion. I also hate ignorant lying contentious people who deny the truth and try to spread evil. Do you think I am wrong for revealing my hatred for evil and evilness and evildoers openly? I am not wrong for doing that at all.
Do you think I am arrogant for it? No, actually it takes humility to come out in the open and speak honestly from your heart as I have done.
Would you rather I conceal my disgust for shirk? Would you rather I not speak out against filthiness and evil cruelty and lies? Would you rather I remain silent about every wicked thing so that it continues to flourish here and in the world and in people?
Then it appears you have greatly misunderstood the likely intent of those revelations. Though your intentions are good in your attempt to correct me, and I agree fully that we should say what is best to people, I have not been going around telling people they are ugly, in fact I even take the time to answer their questions repeatedly. I also share with them what I absolutely hate, so that they may be afraid of being like that (being afraid of being like whatever example I have given of something I hate).
This is how the Qur'an also gives examples of evilness in a way that is hateful towards evil, so that people do not want to be that and run away from being like that.
I have not insulted anyone. I have never said to Man of Faith "You are no Muslim!", I have never said to Samira "You are a hypocrite and a spreader of corruption trying to discredit the Qur'an!" I have never said to the people who want to remove verses from the Qur'an "If you touch the Qur'an to remove verses I am liable to attack, you dirty thieves!" haha, I haven't said any of those things at all.
In fact, if you look at my posts, I've been quite funny about it and nice to people regularly. When I made an example of almost seeming to speak to a gorilla (which was intended to make them laugh at themselves and me and the situation) I gave myself in the example as a proboscis monkey looking like Jimmy Durante, this was in order to give laughter to the viewers, not to insult, but I insulted myself, and I also have really only worked to make people informed, entertained, and generally excited with amusement at my work here.
So I have not said anything really bad if you would care to actually read what I have written.
I have spoken with honesty and openness and exposed clearly my agenda whenever anyone asks and I have hidden nothing and I have revealed what I find really disgusting and horrible (someone who dares to deny the existence of anything at all, denying that they are experiencing anything at all, such is a liar and a person who argues with lies).
"truthseeker11" or whatever was rude to me, he didn't appreciate the work I put into my post, I was actually on topic but he accused me of being inconsiderate and off topic, all the while he is promoting astral projection, channeling entities, and that people should just "follow" whatever they might desire or imagine is true without any reference to anything other than themselves really, basically that they should trust in themselves, when we have seen demonstrated that all those people following their desires or intuition very often rest on falsehood and falseness and are the kinds of people who might say "Jesus is God!" and back it up with nothing more than "My heart tells me so!".
Even though truthseeker11 was spreading corruption and being absolutely rude and unappreciative of the work I put in my responses to him, I did not respond to him by calling him names or anything.
So I have not ceased to follow the advice of the Qur'an, nor have I forgotten, but I appreciate the reminder.
Now you may find this recent post of mine a bit radical for your tastes
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607179.msg362438;topicseen#msg362438
I am not a very cruel or harsh person to people, but when I say I find something absolutely disgusting, such as the denial of any experience at all, I am not kidding, I literally find that a horrible and disgusting lie of the deepest sort and anyone who says that to be a contentious person who has nothing to back up their obviously false and frankly "retarded" idea. I mean "retarded" in the sense that it is really out of bounds for someone who is clearly claiming to experience things to claim there is no experience of any sort they are experiencing (and no one has apparently said that here yet), that is just a lie, they are just lying, and it is disgusting for anyone to say that. If no one has said that, that is fine, but if anyone does say that, it is truly revolting to me.
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As the post I link you was meant to show using common sense, any good person, any good Muslim, hates evilness and evildoers, and speaks out against what is evil and false and they are disgusted by evilness and falsehood and shirk.
Even if Arman doesn't admit it or Faruk, both of them are Muslims and both of them have a hatred inside of them for all wickedness, which is the trait of Muslims, and I am their brother and I feel the hatred too, Arman hates lies, Faruk hates lies, and I hate lies, and we generally like what we have to say. This is the brotherhood of real Muslims and they have a natural inclination for each other and can not deny the truth spoken, and do not approve of evil nor support it.
