Is there a single Muslim on this whole website?
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Freedom stand why do you worship? Are you making a claim that the ritual of worship has been the same for all religions?
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Freedom stand why do you worship? Are you making a claim that the ritual of worship has been the same for all religions?
No, I am just mentioning kind of as an interesting side note that the gestures that are common in the Muslim style are actually quite ancient and were practiced also in other religions and cultures around the whole world (because they are kind of obvious and basic, standing, hands placed on top of chest even, bowing, kneeling, the kowtow or dogeza, all that stuff).
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@ Freedom thanks for clarifying that it is not personal insults you engage in. Yes I do agree that peoples actions can be abhorrent, upsetting revolting etc. although I don't really understand how a Muslim can feel hate as its not an emotion I have ever felt since I became Muslim. I feel deeply sad about abuse and revolted by aggressive violence of any kind including the violence of poverty, modern day slavery and human trafficking. But for me hate is a wasted emotion. I prefer to research the causes behind such crimes and support actions that will help prevent them. Moses was a murderer and he was forgiven by God. I strive to have the same kind of forgiveness in my heart, while not condoning violent crimes in any way. Understanding the nature of evil is another whole topic on its own with plenty of research to show how most ordinary God fearing people can become violent aggressors given the right circumstances. Also brain research on psychopaths shows that there is often a genetic mutation involved.
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@ Freedom thanks for clarifying that it is not personal insults you engage in. Yes I do agree that peoples actions can be abhorrent, upsetting revolting etc. although I don't really understand how a Muslim can feel hate as its not an emotion I have ever felt since I became Muslim. I feel deeply sad about abuse and revolted by aggressive violence of any kind including the violence of poverty, modern day slavery and human trafficking. But for me hate is a wasted emotion. I prefer to research the causes behind such crimes and support actions that will help prevent them. Moses was a murderer and he was forgiven by God. I strive to have the same kind of forgiveness in my heart, while not condoning violent crimes in any way. Understanding the nature of evil is another whole topic on its own with plenty of research to show how most ordinary God fearing people can become violent aggressors given the right circumstances. Also brain research on psychopaths shows that there is often a genetic mutation involved.
I know people often dislike the negative emotions or things they find negative, but they are actually things which can be helpful and may even be necessary.
Hate and Fear are two of the most important qualities of a Muslim, however mad that might sound.
Hatred of Evil and Injustice so that we take action against it and shun it from ourselves and do not stand by and support it.
Fear of Allah alone and a tremendous fear of Allah, realizing the completely free power of Allah who is not tamed by any other force or power and can do anything freely without restriction.
Filled with hate and fear, the Muslim can feel the great power of Islam.
Hate is indeed wasted for many people because they don't understand how to harness it to their advantage. Hate is supposed to give you power, energy to take action, motivation to move with strength against something.
For example, anger, to by angry and enraged and control your actions and let it fill you can give you tremendous strength and improve your immunity even if done right, you can then do exercise with that energy or whatever, like being angry at an oncoming illness, or angry enough to fight to defend yourself or whatever else, these things can be harnessed for your benefit.
Even envy, you should envy the most righteous people and be covetous of their achievements so that you try to achieve even greater than them. See how all these things can be used for good if one channels them correctly?
To be lustful with your spouse and passionate, all those things they call the opposites of "virtue" can actually be used in good ways to be free and happy and natural and channel them carefully and in the right and good ways to your advantage.
I gave many examples where the Qur'an and other books speak of our natural hatred that comes from being good people who are truly filled with the hatred of evil as a blessing, and the fear of God as a grace upon us to understand why God is truly the most frightening and fear inducing.
Islam becomes a truly rich religious meditative practice if you embrace these things.
Allah has also told us about War and its uses
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FIGHTING is ordained for you, even though it be hateful to you; but it may well be that you hate a thing the while it is good for you, and it may well be that you love a thing the while it is bad for you and God knows, whereas you do not know.I am a warrior, and I feel great about it. I feel there is no greater honor than to be the champion and foremost in the Host of the Lord of War.
Allah repeatedly tells us to compete and "vie" with one another in good works, and thus to always try to top the next person in righteousness, and encouraging them to do more good, and then topping that and so on.
We are a religion of warriors, iconoclasts, fighters, duelists, competitors, champions, invigorated racers, and we are proud
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O you who have attained to faith! If you ever abandon your faith," God will in time bring forth people whom He loves and who love Him - humble towards the believers, proud towards all who deny the truth who strive hard in God's cause, and do not fear to be censured by anyone who might censure them such is God's favour, which He grants unto whom He wills. And God is infinite, all-knowing.So we can wear our glorious armor, the armor of righteousness and truth and justice, and say Oh you who disbelieve! Come now! Let us reason! Here we make combat!
Haha! Un'guard!
A parry! A dodge! A dash! An Ambush!
Our muscles grow firm, and we need not be foes as we practice with one another and race and dash and leap over each other in goodness!
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They believe in God and the Last Day, and enjoin the doing of what is right and forbid the doing of what is wrong, and vie with one another in doing good works and these are among the righteous.548
And unto thee have We revealed the Scripture with the truth, confirming whatever Scripture was before it, and a watcher over it. So judge between them by that which Allah hath revealed, and follow not their desires away from the truth which hath come unto thee. For each We have appointed a divine law and a traced-out way. Had Allah willed He could have made you one community. But that He may try you by that which He hath given you (He hath made you as ye are). So vie one with another in good works. Unto Allah ye will all return, and He will then inform you of that wherein ye differ.
Oh how I love Islam! It is a truly beautiful religion!
Even the accusations of the kaffirs are somewhat true.
Indeed Islam is a "Death Cult" a "Religion of War" and a "System of Fear" Haha! Even their insults aren't insults, but we can turn it to wisdom!
We war against evilness everywhere! We know that life is temporary and that we will be returning to Allah who is not made of any information and so non-experience (like death and a dreamless sleep) is called "returning to Allah), and we meditate or are basically repeatedly asked in the Qur'an to meditate on the fear of Allah and to fear Allah
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Believers, Fear God and stand with the truthful. -
I think a member called Es compared me to someone who might have been banned from this website. I think it might have been this guy they were talking about
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=38881;area=showposts;start=680
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Also, Moses wasn't really comparable to most "murderers" of this day and age. He accidentally killed someone while trying to defend someone, so that is not really quite the same, and he was concerned about the strict Egyptian laws and so ran away, teaching us that circumstances are what counts and not to blindly follow the norms of justice necessarily to our own demise. Think if he had handed himself over and been executed, what a beautiful story and a beautiful man would be lost, but that doesn't mean we should support those who torture and harm people and animals and are wanton evil criminals or the unjust in other forms like evil governments that harm people. Do you think Allah was kind to the Pharoah? Do you think the circumstances of Pharoah justified his behavior? No, he was drowned, and then he will be thrown in hell.
Islam is not some gooey new age hippy style religion, Islam is awesome.
Musa was a good man and even his killing a person on accident was his goodness in trying to defend the contentious hot head who kept getting into fights. Musa immediately prayed also, he was never bad. Iblis on the other hand took the other road of misdirected hatred and being unreasonable and not channeling it correctly, while we are supposed to hate Shaitan and his followers and be repulsed by their conduct.
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Muslim is all about behavior and where you put your priorities and trust.
One can not be a Muslim unless they reduce their ego. And that does not only mean towards the Creator but also towards all Creation.
Characteristically it means to reduce that "I want" in yourself. Harmonize yourself spiritually, particularly to the Rabb, and stop indulging in worldly matters.
It is basically to put your health/spirit to God and feel assimilation with God in mind and thought, and preferably cease to exist alone but in God instead. That is where the reduce your ego comes from. Your ego is generally controlled by your beast body and its fleshly instincts and those you need to put in "checkmate". Otherwise there is nothing else in existence and that is your Sustainer and in that body you shall be absorbed, i.e. in the Sustainer's realm.
Salaam
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Muslim is all about behavior and where you put your priorities and trust.
One can not be a Muslim unless they reduce their ego. And that does not only mean towards the Creator but also towards all Creation.
Characteristically it means to reduce that "I want" in yourself. Harmonize yourself spiritually, particularly to the Rabb, and stop indulging in worldly matters.
It is basically to put your health/spirit to God and feel assimilation with God in mind and thought, and preferably cease to exist alone but in God instead. That is where the reduce your ego comes from. Your ego is generally controlled by your beast body and its fleshly instincts and those you need to put in "checkmate". Otherwise there is nothing else in existence and that is your Sustainer and in that body you shall be absorbed, i.e. in the Sustainer's realm.
Salaam
Good post! Thank you for posting in here too, I appreciate it!
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Also, Moses wasn't really comparable to most "murderers" of this day and age. He accidentally killed someone while trying to defend someone, so that is not really quite the same, and he was concerned about the strict Egyptian laws and so ran away, teaching us that circumstances are what counts and not to blindly follow the norms of justice necessarily to our own demise. Think if he had handed himself over and been executed, what a beautiful story and a beautiful man would be lost, but that doesn't mean we should support those who torture and harm people and animals and are wanton evil criminals or the unjust in other forms like evil governments that harm people. Do you think Allah was kind to the Pharoah? Do you think the circumstances of Pharoah justified his behavior? No, he was drowned, and then he will be thrown in hell.
Islam is not some gooey new age hippy style religion, Islam is awesome.
Musa was a good man and even his killing a person on accident was his goodness in trying to defend the contentious hot head who kept getting into fights. Musa immediately prayed also, he was never bad. Iblis on the other hand took the other road of misdirected hatred and being unreasonable and not channeling it correctly, while we are supposed to hate Shaitan and his followers and be repulsed by their conduct.
He killed someone which was a sin. The person he was trying to defend was a trouble causer. He should not have been defending him. He should have been just regardless of who the person was that he was defending. After killing one person he was about to kill another one until someone came to warn him. Luckily God had chosen him as a prophet and forgave him for his sins. So he did bad but repented which luckily for him and the rest of humanity is a grace from God. Of God was strict I don't think there would be many people entering the gardens of paradise.
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(Old English Bible Clich?)
Diddest I not tell thee that thou couldest understand me?
Salaam FreedomStands
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(Old English Bible Clich?)
Diddest I not tell thee that thou couldest understand me?
Salaam FreedomStands
Madest my nose laugh!
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He killed someone which was a sin. The person he was trying to defend was a trouble causer. He should not have been defending him. He should have been just regardless of who the person was that he was defending. After killing one person he was about to kill another one until someone came to warn him. Luckily God had chosen him as a prophet and forgave him for his sins. So he did bad but repented which luckily for him and the rest of humanity is a grace from God. Of God was strict I don't think there would be many people entering the gardens of paradise.
I think the Qur'an story is a little different and generally depicts the Prophets each and all as incredibly soft-hearted nice people.
I also don't think killing is necessarily a sin, like in self defense, or defense of someone else, and in the Biblical legal sense you are supposed to defend people who are being chased or harmed or whatever. His killing in the Qur'an version was unintentional and had what he thought was a good cause initially too probably, so he is never depicted as a bad guy at all.
The Qur'an doesn't have very strict unrelenting laws, it seems to present a circumstantial picture of the world where sometimes war and fighting and killing is necessary and is part of life.
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@ Freedom i found your post on hate and fear very thought provoking and interesting. I gave the example of Moses (which would may be considered manslaughter in today's courts which is still a crime) but a further example of Gods forgiveness of sinners is when Adam and Eve sin, are punished and forgiven. Are the any verses in Quran that state God hates sinners? Have you checked out all the references to hate in Quran? Almost all the references I found mentioned hate in the context of disbelievers and backsliders hating the things that please God, and hating the truth.
Sura 3118 ....hatred flows out of their mouths ... die in your rage.There are 3 references I found that talk about believers hating
Sura 42 do not be provoked into aggression by your hatred of people who ....
Sura 591 the devil wants to provoke animosity and hatred among you through intoxicants and gambling
Sura 60.1 ..we denounce you and you will see nothing from us but animosity and hatred until you believe in God Alone.
This verse definitely seems to be saying we should express animosity and hatred towards others who do not worship God Alone. I would like to know others thoughts on this verse.Despite this verse, my understanding of Islam from reading the whole of Quran, is that it is a religion of mercy. God hates the sin but loves sinners since we are all less than perfect and do wrong continuously throughout our lives but God's love and mercy towards us keeps the gate of repentance open. God tells us in Quran that if we genuinely repent and seek Gods forgiveness we will be pardoned. Quran 3953 " Proclaim oh my servants Who exceeded the limits, never despair of Gods mercy. For God forgives all sins. He is the Forgiver, Most Merciful.
I am wondering if the Arabic word in Quran that is translated as hate can also mean detest?
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I think the Qur'an story is a little different and generally depicts the Prophets each and all as incredibly soft-hearted nice people.
I also don't think killing is necessarily a sin, like in self defense, or defense of someone else, and in the Biblical legal sense you are supposed to defend people who are being chased or harmed or whatever. His killing in the Qur'an version was unintentional and had what he thought was a good cause initially too probably, so he is never depicted as a bad guy at all.
The Qur'an doesn't have very strict unrelenting laws, it seems to present a circumstantial picture of the world where sometimes war and fighting and killing is necessary and is part of life.
No it doesn't. There were many different kinds of prophets. Some soft hearted, some strict, some highly intelligent, some simple, some kings, some slaves, etc. King Solomon was about to punish the Hoopoe bird for not being present, he threatened the sun worshipping queen with war. Each prophet was human and humans we all have different personalities. That's how God has created us. Some of use are more forgiving than others, some more patient than others. Bottom line is that everyone has to obey Gods laws whether they be prophets or not. If they make mistakes whether they are prophets or not and genuinely repent and God wishes to forgive them then they are forgiven.
God forgave Moses hence it proves he sinned. If Moses did not sin God would never mention that he forgave him. It's not for me to pass judgement on Moses or anyone else, that's for God to do. All I can do is observe and give my opinion and thoughts on someone's actions. If I feel it doesn't comply with Gods laws then I can say.
The Quran is strict on what the law is. However some laws have lesser punishments in certain situations. For example if someone is murdered the family of the murdered one can request life for life punishment or blood money. For adultery it's lashes. God commands that we have to testify for justice even if it's against our closest relatives or even ourselves. So if I kill someone I must accept my own punishment. Maybe this way God can offer me hope of salvation on the Day of Judgement.
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@ Freedom i found your post on hate and fear very thought provoking and interesting. I gave the example of Moses (which would may be considered manslaughter in today's courts which is still a crime) but a further example of Gods forgiveness of sinners is when Adam and Eve sin, are punished and forgiven. Are the any verses in Quran that state God hates sinners? Have you checked out all the references to hate in Quran? Almost all the references I found mentioned hate in the context of disbelievers and backsliders hating the things that please God, and hating the truth.
Sura 3118 ....hatred flows out of their mouths ... die in your rage.There are 3 references I found that talk about believers hating
Sura 42 do not be provoked into aggression by your hatred of people who ....
Sura 591 the devil wants to provoke animosity and hatred among you through intoxicants and gambling
Sura 60.1 ..we denounce you and you will see nothing from us but animosity and hatred until you believe in God Alone.
This verse definitely seems to be saying we should express animosity and hatred towards others who do not worship God Alone. I would like to know others thoughts on this verse.Despite this verse, my understanding of Islam from reading the whole of Quran, is that it is a religion of mercy. God hates the sin but loves sinners since we are all less than perfect and do wrong continuously throughout our lives but God's love and mercy towards us keeps the gate of repentance open. God tells us in Quran that if we genuinely repent and seek Gods forgiveness we will be pardoned. Quran 3953 " Proclaim oh my servants Who exceeded the limits, never despair of Gods mercy. For God forgives all sins. He is the Forgiver, Most Merciful.
I am wondering if the Arabic word in Quran that is translated as hate can also mean detest?
Here you go, you might enjoy my hate speech to huruf which is followed by some quotes, and here is what I've been writing about Mercy just now
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607179.msg362438#msg362438
"also I just thought of something interesting which is that its so easy to be genuinely humble, its just that people don't realize how to do it, but the easiest way I think to achieve it probably is to realize Allah is the only power that can do anything freely and all information or things are in a sense equally powerless before the power of Allah and in the same plight as we are
(The Sole Power being Allah Alone) which only the humble can accept it kind of proves who is humble or not
and this medicine is the hardest thing for people to swallow sometimes
but it gives the most relief and peace
and even joy, joy that Allah has done us so much good when Allah never had to
and that we didn't even "earn it" that Allah freely gave us good
then Allah's names make perfect sense
as being the ultimate truths
that Allah indeed is the boundless in kindness
because if Allah did it "because" that would mean bounded or condition basedbut Allah is unconditionally
for no reason other than purely being loving to us
selecting us and giving us pleasure and creating us
and guiding us
and what a huge huge huge favor it is
like it can not even be compared to anything
that it makes someone want to just fall to the floor in prostration crying in gratefulness
because Allah could have just as easily destroyed us
or harmed us in any way
but instead freely chose to bestow goodness on us
then it all makes sense "which of the favors of your Lord will you deny?"
Ar Rahman, that whole surah
makes sense then
that Allah is saying that Allah did this all freely, not because you deserved it
you're nothing at all if Allah didn't make you
and people are so ungrateful because they think they somehow deserved it or that Allah owes them
exactly
its not a test its Allah creating what Allah wills, and the word "test" means "proving" in this case, "to make evident" "to make manifest"
so Allah makes his creation manifest, makes it exist
"proves" by making the kaffir the kaffir, the muslim the muslim
and makes it apparent by what they end up being and doingand they think Allah makes a mistake? Allah repeatedly says "I do no wrong"
Allah is saying that Allah did not make a mistake
Allah is doing it on purpose, and it is deliberately created this way as Allah wills and intends
they really think they can fight the will of Allah? even that silly thought in their mind is from Allah
they are utterly deceived
and to know that Allah has favored some and others are made for the fire
is the scariest thing
truly tremendous
to realize the unstoppable power of Allah
the whole Qur'an
is entirely consistent
it really truly has no contradiction
or confusion
once people unlock the key
goodnight! Thank you for talking to me, have a beautiful time Insha'Allah!"
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No it doesn't. There were many different kinds of prophets. Some soft hearted, some strict, some highly intelligent, some simple, some kings, some slaves, etc. King Solomon was about to punish the Hoopoe bird for not being present, he threatened the sun worshipping queen with war. Each prophet was human and humans we all have different personalities. That's how God has created us. Some of use are more forgiving than others, some more patient than others. Bottom line is that everyone has to obey Gods laws whether they be prophets or not. If they make mistakes whether they are prophets or not and genuinely repent and God wishes to forgive them then they are forgiven.
God forgave Moses hence it proves he sinned. If Moses did not sin God would never mention that he forgave him. It's not for me to pass judgement on Moses or anyone else, that's for God to do. All I can do is observe and give my opinion and thoughts on someone's actions. If I feel it doesn't comply with Gods laws then I can say.
The Quran is strict on what the law is. However some laws have lesser punishments in certain situations. For example if someone is murdered the family of the murdered one can request life for life punishment or blood money. For adultery it's lashes. God commands that we have to testify for justice even if it's against our closest relatives or even ourselves. So if I kill someone I must accept my own punishment. Maybe this way God can offer me hope of salvation on the Day of Judgement.
I don't find Solomon's character consistent with actually intending to punish the bird, since he is the same Solomon who was amused with the ant's speech and so grateful for it and loved his horses. I think he was likely a fun character like myself.
There was one story of one character leaving his domain in irritation and getting lost in the forest and repenting, was it a sin that he got lost in the forest? I repent even when I see something bad happen or someone else does something bad. I'm not saying Musa didn't do anything wrong by the killing, I'm saying that it wasn't actually the same as a pre-meditated murder, it was depicted in the Qur'an as accidental, and I also ask for forgiveness when I make a mistake too, I am not saying it wasn't harmful or wrong, I am merely saying the Qur'an depicts it as unintentional, and God can count it as a sin or not, that is up to God, but my point was different.
If God was so strict as you are giving the impression, why then was Musa allowed to run and not told to go face his judgment by the law?
Why then was the young boy killed and Musa was shocked and horrified at what seemed an injustice?
Justice is whatever Allah makes it be, and if I killed someone on accident, I'd run too, no way would I put myself at the mercy of the evil government. If I killed someone on purpose, I'd run as well!
I also would not testify against my family unless they really were bad, and I'd promote them to run as well if necessary and seek the forgiveness of Allah, never to put ourselves at the mercy of the human beings, but at the mercy of Allah who truly has the power of salvation.
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God hates the sin but loves sinners since we are all less than perfect and do wrong continuously throughout our lives but God's love and mercy towards us keeps the gate of repentance open. God tells us in Quran that if we genuinely repent and seek Gods forgiveness we will be pardoned. Quran 3953 " Proclaim oh my servants Who exceeded the limits, never despair of Gods mercy. For God forgives all sins. He is the Forgiver, Most Merciful.
Need to bear in mind what gets thrown into hell, the sin or the sinner? God does does not want to throw us into hell but knows our hearts well and those who choose to turn to God he helps them by guiding them or maybe just forgiving them. If you think about this life has been designed to get us into the gardens of paradise. 1 good deed is worth 10 bad ones. Our suffering can be another oppurtunity to turn to God. Anyone who has been given wealth and spends instead of hoarding counts as good, smiling and saying nice things are good deeds, looking after your parents is good deeds, sharing food with friends is a good deed, helping animals is a good deed.
I find it strange that for simply a few years of living on earth and doing some good deeds humans are offered an eternity of bliss in paradise. Is that just? Is that fair?
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I also would not testify against my family unless they really were bad, and I'd promote them to run as well if necessary and seek the forgiveness of Allah, never to put ourselves at the mercy of the human beings, but at the mercy of Allah who truly has the power of salvation.
You do realise that you would be breaking God's law which may land you in a bad place, don't you? If we are dealt unfairly by humans in this life it may actually help to remove some of our sins since God will correct the injustice on the Day of Judgement.
Need to remember on the Day of Judgement all relationships will be broken.
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If God was so strict as you are giving the impression, why then was Musa allowed to run and not told to go face his judgment by the law?
Because he was chosen as a prophet from when he was born. If it weren't for that he may have had to face justice. Also bear in mind that Moses was not allowed to enter the Promised Land of Israel. Maybe that was part of his punishment?
God is strict. Justice will either be done here or on the Day of Judgement. The person who was killed had rights. I believe on the Day of Judgment he will be able to ask for justice. God may simply give him entry to heaven and a few extra palaces so he feels that he has been dealt with justly.