Is there a single Muslim on this whole website?
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Salam Ted.
EXACTLY - that would mean the father, mother and grand father of Prophet Muhammad were indeed "potentially" muslim although they might not have the privilage of "Quranic" guidance. Per my humble reading of Qur'an Muhammad was sent as a messenger to give glad tidings to all those who were already muslim (by being good), and to give warning to those who were already repressing faith - NOT TO introduce a new benchmark against which Allah will judge who is muslim and who is not. You do not need to go too far in Qur'an to realize this, carefully examine the first 30 verses of Surah Baquarah and you'll understand where I am coming from.
The idea that Muhammad (pbuh) introduced a new criteria for being muslim, and everyone living in Arabia before Muhammad were pagan and doomed to hell - is the innovation of the envious minds who once again found it convenient to take the universal message brought by a prophet and reinterpret it to propagate their narrow communal interest. This has happen to the teaching of every Prophet, that is all too common plot of devil
YES Everyone is a muslim, until they willingly choose to repress (ka-fa-ra) their faith ("faith" - being the acceptance of the sense of right and wrong, as a solemn obligation entrusted upon us along with the gift of life).
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
ArmanBeing good does not automatically make you muslim. Being good AND worshipping your Creator alone makes you a muslim. So the pagans might have been good but by worshipping idols makes them unbelievers. Same goes for the atheists.
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Being good does not automatically make you muslim. Being good AND worshipping your Creator alone makes you a muslim. So the pagans might have been good but by worshipping idols makes them unbelievers. Same goes for the atheists.
Salam TED.
Perhaps you can help me understand what you are saying by defining "worshipping"?
Regards,
Arman -
Hi, I'm back now, just finished collecting my 500 posts and posting them, you can ask me whatever you want!
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Salam TED.
Perhaps you can help me understand what you are saying by defining "worshipping"?
Regards,
ArmanIn this case praying.
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My understanding on the word muslim,
Muslim is one makes peace, one who adjust and say, lets come to a common understanding with respect to what we both identify as goodness, thereby maintaining peace, if the other one is not accepting then say your way is yours and our way is ours.
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My belief on the word muslim,
Muslim is one makes peace, one who adjust and say, lets come to a common understanding with respect to what we both identify as goodness, thereby maintaining peace, if the other one is not accepting then say your way is yours and our way is ours.
Yeah, I try to do that too, thats why I use other religious frameworks to talk about Islam also.
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In this case praying.
Salam TED.
If your idea of Allah/God is that Allah is a deity who is obsessed with People "praying" to Him and hence sends Prophets with books that contain updated "rules of the road" on how to pray to Him - then I believe you are carrying an incorrect illusion of a deity (Tagoot) that the clergy of your religion have artificially defined and tricked you into believing. A deity who is waiting with his big book of judgement where he is putting a tally against who is "correctly" praying to him and who is not and on the judgement day he'd use the tally book to send a group to hell and the rest to the heaven.
No. Exalted be Allah! Allah is the Creative force that binds all of us together - ALL OF US - the 1 billion Chinese, the 1 billion Indians, the 1 billion "Muslims" and 2 billion Christians - ALL OF US. He is the one who designs every cell of the body of each one of us, arranged every meal that each one of us take has purified every breath of air that each one of us take. His system is just and fair to the atom to each one of us. As long as a human being accepts his common connection with everyone else around and out of respect towards that common connection (which is our Common Rabb - Allah) acts upon his God gifted senses of right and wrong - that human being is worshiping Allah. That Allah is their Master, our Master, my Master, your Master. So let's all be slave to Him (as opposed to an artificially defined deity based on someone's holy book). That is the straight route.
Our Prophet Muhammad taught us the message of Allah (i.e. Qur'an) to make us conscious of that common connection named God - not to distribute easy tickets to heaven issued by a deity.
I know this realization is not easy to grasp. You will believe what you ought to believe. Our Master guides to the straight route whomever He wills.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Arman has been saying good stuff since I've been collecting my posts and haven't been posting as much, the above post is good and the ones where he defended my statements and pointed out important features were also good and accurate, he understood what I had been saying, and I agree also with what he is saying above here!
He is one of the few people I consider a fellow Muslim (muslim, whatever, lol I try not to make a big deal about Muslim or muslim or all that, I'd take the capital version for ourselves and give the one without capitalization to the common "muslims" and give one without an "m" to some of the wacky ones on this website, rendering "uslims" and for the really poor(ly educated, misinforming) ones, I'd take both m's out and render it "uslis", oh wow that sounds surprisingly similar to "useless"! If Ted isn't a Christian then we might give him the title of MUSLIM in all caps so that it always seems very fervent in relation to him).
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Salam TED.
If your idea of Allah/God is that Allah is a deity who is obsessed with People "praying" to Him and hence sends Prophets with books that contain updated "rules of the road" on how to pray to Him - then I believe you are carrying an incorrect illusion of a deity (Tagoot) that the clergy of your religion have artificially defined and tricked you into believing. A deity who is waiting with his big book of judgement where he is putting a tally against who is "correctly" praying to him and who is not and on the judgement day he'd use the tally book to send a group to hell and the rest to the heaven.
No. Exalted be Allah! Allah is the Creative force that binds all of us together - ALL OF US - the 1 billion Chinese, the 1 billion Indians, the 1 billion "Muslims" and 2 billion Christians - ALL OF US. He is the one who designs every cell of the body of each one of us, arranged every meal that each one of us take has purified every breath of air that each one of us take. His system is just and fair to the atom to each one of us. As long as a human being accepts his common connection with everyone else around and out of respect towards that common connection (which is our Common Rabb - Allah) acts upon his God gifted senses of right and wrong - that human being is worshiping Allah. That Allah is their Master, our Master, my Master, your Master. So let's all be slave to Him (as opposed to an artificially defined deity based on someone's holy book). That is the straight route.
Our Prophet Muhammad taught us the message of Allah (i.e. Qur'an) to make us conscious of that common connection named God - not to distribute easy tickets to heaven issued by a deity.
I know this realization is not easy to grasp. You will believe what you ought to believe. Our Master guides to the straight route whomever He wills.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
ArmanSalaam Armanaziz,
No I don't believe God is one who is obsessed with having his creation pray to him constantly in a robotic manner. However God has revealed to mankind how to pray to though his prophets. These need to be followed. If you don't follow them then it's like ignoring what God is guiding you to do. Some may not understand the value and why they need to pray and may not do it regular or at all. That's between them and their Creator. However scripture says that we need to pray so if we believe those scriptures then we need to pray regular whether we like it or not just to please God.
I don't believe each prophet was sent an updated method of how to pray for each nation or mankind. So the Jews don't have the to pray the way the Muslims do it and the Hindus don't have to do it the way the Jews or Muslims do it. God reveals guidance to many nations, those nations should follow it as it is revealed to them. Praying differently to the same God is fine in my opinion as long as you are following your book properly.
I believe God made differences in each nation with regards to the rituals and customs so that they could celebrate these differences and get to know each other. However each nation needs to have in common the belief in one God and to work righteousness.
In the Quran when God says there is only one religion I believe he means there is only one path to God and that path is to believe in one God and to work righteousness. The other things like how to pray, "holy" days, certain laws can be different and they need to be followed and obeyed if God says so. In the end all nations regardless of their religion can unite on the belief in one God and working righteousness. Any disputes regarding the other things in religion can be dealt with on the Day of Judgment when we will all meet our Creator. So there is absolutely no need for hostility or hate amongst one another.
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Salaam Armanaziz,
No I don't believe God is one who is obsessed with having his creation pray to him constantly in a robotic manner. However God has revealed to mankind how to pray to though his prophets. These need to be followed. If you don't follow them then it's like ignoring what God is guiding you to do. Some may not understand the value and why they need to pray and may not do it regular or at all. That's between them and their Creator. However scripture says that we need to pray so if we believe those scriptures then we need to pray regular whether we like it or not just to please God.
I don't believe each prophet was sent an updated method of how to pray for each nation or mankind. So the Jews don't have the to pray the way the Muslims do it and the Hindus don't have to do it the way the Jews or Muslims do it. God reveals guidance to many nations, those nations should follow it as it is revealed to them. Praying differently to the same God is fine in my opinion as long as you are following your book properly.
I believe God made differences in each nation with regards to the rituals and customs so that they could celebrate these differences and get to know each other. However each nation needs to have in common the belief in one God and to work righteousness.
In the Quran when God says there is only one religion I believe he means there is only one path to God and that path is to believe in one God and to work righteousness. The other things like how to pray, "holy" days, certain laws can be different and they need to be followed and obeyed if God says so. In the end all nations regardless of their religion can unite on the belief in one God and working righteousness. Any disputes regarding the other things in religion can be dealt with on the Day of Judgment when we will all meet our Creator. So there is absolutely no need for hostility or hate amongst one another.
Sounds good to me!
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As long as a human being accepts his common connection with everyone else around and out of respect towards that common connection (which is our Common Rabb - Allah) acts upon his God gifted senses of right and wrong - that human being is worshiping Allah. That Allah is their Master, our Master, my Master, your Master. So let's all be slave to Him (as opposed to an artificially defined deity based on someone's holy book). That is the straight route.
The problem is that the pagans at the time of the prophet Mohammed did accept Allah as their creator and the one who sustains the universe and feeds them and did some righteousness according to their God gifted senses. The one who has power over all things. The same goes for the Jews, they believe/believed in one God and worship him and do righteousness according to their God gifted senses. Same goes for the Christians, they say they believe in one God and they do do some very good things in the world.
The problem is that the people of the religion make things up and say this is from God or that this other god will get us closer to the real God. Or they will create customs and rituals which they have made up. The pagans believed in one God but they had other gods which they say had some share in the power of God. Or they said there were female angels. Some did not believe in Day of Judgement.
So even though you have nations both monotheistic and pagan all believing in one God and doing good, they have some serious errors in their beliefs which God doesn't accept and he will punish them. For the Jews God rebukes them for thinking they are his special people and only they will get heaven. The Christians say Jesus is the Son of God and that we can only attain salvation through him. The pagans believe they can get closer to God through their own made up gods and some don't even believe in the Day of Judgement.
This leads to people following false doctrine and beliefs which God is not going to accept. Hence God is very strict that whenever someone speaks regarding God they speak the truth. If they don't know attribute something to God which you have no knowledge of.
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So even though you have nations both monotheistic and pagan all believing in one God and doing good, they have some serious errors in their beliefs which God doesn't accept and he will punish them. For the Jews God rebukes them for thinking they are his special people and only they will get heaven. The Christians say Jesus is the Son of God and that we can only attain salvation through him. The pagans believe they can get closer to God through their own made up gods and some don't even believe in the Day of Judgement.
Salam Ted.
The people who "worship" a deity sitting upon his throne on 7th heaven perpendicularly above the exact point where Kaaba is located, a deity who is watching over things like who is wearing his dress over their ankle while praying, and who is correct with the exact number of ruku-sazdah per rakat etc. and allocating heaven and hell based on matters like this - also have equally serious errors in their beliefs as do the pagans/Christians. Being a monotheist does not help if the One God you worship is an incorrectly defined "being" - rather than Allah who is the reason of our existence of all "beings". Just look at ISIS and Boko Haram. Their state is no better than pagans killing people as service to their deity.
However, in spite of ignorance about true nature of God, if one manages to do good and live a good life, who am I or you to tell that God would not accept their sincerity? Ignorance is not a crime - willful ignorance is. And Allah is not unjust by an atom's weight.
Be not tricked into believing that Muhammad was sent to establish a community (ummah) by the label "Muslims" that will carry the monopoly over "correct version of knowledge of Allah" and hold the exclusive keys to heaven. He was sent to establish a community (ummah) that will come to the benefit of mankind by calling them towards good and forbidding from the deplorable. Do check Qur'an (2143, 3104) to verify this assertion.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Salam Ted.
The people who "worship" a deity sitting upon his throne on 7th heaven perpendicularly above the exact point where Kaaba is located, a deity who is watching over things like who is wearing his dress over their ankle while praying, and who is correct with the exact number of ruku-sazdah per rakat etc. and allocating heaven and hell based on matters like this - also have equally serious errors in their beliefs as do the pagans/Christians. Being a monotheist does not help if the One God you worship is an incorrectly defined "being" - rather than Allah who is the reason of our existence of all "beings". Just look at ISIS and Boko Haram. Their state is no better than pagans killing people as service to their deity.
However, in spite of ignorance about true nature of God, if one manages to do good and live a good life, who am I or you to tell that God would not accept their sincerity? Ignorance is not a crime - willful ignorance is. And Allah is not unjust by an atom's weight.
Be not tricked into believing that Muhammad was sent to establish a community (ummah) by the label "Muslims" that will carry the monopoly over "correct version of knowledge of Allah" and hold the exclusive keys to heaven. He was sent to establish a community (ummah) that will come to the benefit of mankind by calling them towards good and forbidding from the deplorable. Do check Qur'an (2143, 3104) to verify this assertion.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
ArmanEven if such a creature as they describe existed, I would not worship it unless forced, and I would work as I could to undermine it and destroy it if possible, even from the minds of people (and that is what I work to do too!).
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God in the Quran clearly says you should establish regular prayer. So will you not pray as he has described in the Quran? Forget the hadiths for now just look at the Quran.
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God in the Quran clearly says you should establish regular prayer. So will you not pray as he has described in the Quran? Forget the hadiths for now just look at the Quran.
If you read my initial posts in this thread, I promote worship in the usual fashion.
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God in the Quran clearly says you should establish regular prayer. So will you not pray as he has described in the Quran? Forget the hadiths for now just look at the Quran.
Salamun Alaikum.
Of course I would, and Allah knows I do so with my utmost sincerety. I pray the way my community prays because I believe the messenger whom we specifically follow (i.e. Prophet Muhammad) taught us to pray in communitywide consistent format so that we can empathize with each other. But what I would not do is to propagate a specific form / format and frquency of "prayer" to be an indispensable requirement for one to be a muslim or for one to receive eternal salvation. Because that is simply not the teaching of Qur'an. Many among the ones who repented (alladina hadu), took their rituals as an end in itself as opposed to a means towards an end. Their state is comparable to that of a donkeys who bear the load without understanding what they bear. Many among the "Muslims" are walking the exact same path. Then will you not understand?
What is indispensable is to "establish" respect (akimus salat) for the Master of the universe through our everyday action. The ritual salat is only a ceremonial expression of that respect that helps keep us consistently reminded.
God in the Quran clearly says you should be nice to your parents, you should be nice to your neighbours (near and far), to the children of the path and so on. Do you or any of our clergy consider those to be indispensable requirement for one to be a muslim? Be aware, God in the the Qur'an also condemns the "Musalli" who repulses the orphan and do not feel the urge to feed the poor (Ref Surah 107). Which one is the indispensable requirement then?
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Also, Moses wasn't really comparable to most "murderers" of this day and age. He accidentally killed someone while trying to defend someone, so that is not really quite the same, and he was concerned about the strict Egyptian laws and so ran away, teaching us that circumstances are what counts and not to blindly follow the norms of justice necessarily to our own demise. Think if he had handed himself over and been executed, what a beautiful story and a beautiful man would be lost, but that doesn't mean we should support those who torture and harm people and animals and are wanton evil criminals or the unjust in other forms like evil governments that harm people. Do you think Allah was kind to the Pharoah? Do you think the circumstances of Pharoah justified his behavior? No, he was drowned, and then he will be thrown in hell.
Islam is not some gooey new age hippy style religion, Islam is awesome.
Musa was a good man and even his killing a person on accident was his goodness in trying to defend the contentious hot head who kept getting into fights. Musa immediately prayed also, he was never bad. Iblis on the other hand took the other road of misdirected hatred and being unreasonable and not channeling it correctly, while we are supposed to hate Shaitan and his followers and be repulsed by their conduct.
Salaam,
Musa did not kill anyone. He cannot do so as per my understanding.
If he kills, then he is surely a murderer even though he is a good man.May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
As mmkhan says, it does not seem that Moses killed a man but that is another false inference. There are also texts/sources which do not say that Moses ever killed a man like that, although it says Moses participated in war as commander before he was plotted against due to that they feared his rise of influence. That is when he fled. He seems to have been a powerful man physically.
Salaam
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Salaam,
Musa did not kill anyone. He cannot do so as per my understanding.
If he kills, then he is surely a murderer even though he is a good man.May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhanWhat is your understanding of the following
2833
He said, "My Lord! Indeed, I killed of them a man, and I fear that they will kill me.2815
And he entered the city at a time (of) inattention of its people and found therein two men fighting each other; this of his party and this of his enemy. And called him for help the one who (was) from his party against the one who (was) from his enemy, so Musa struck him with his fist and killed him. He said, "This (is) of (the) deed (of) Shaitaan. Indeed, he (is) an enemy - one who misleads clearly."Also a witness to a murder of a boy
1874
So they twain journeyed on till, when they met a lad, he slew him. (Moses) said What! Hast thou slain an innocent soul who hath slain no man? Verily thou hast done a horrid thing. (But Musa didn't hand him over to the authorities if there were any)Also asked people to kill themselves
254
And when said Musa to his people, "O my people! Indeed, you have wronged yourselves by your taking the calf. So turn in repentance to your Creator, and kill yourselves. That (is) better for you with your Creator." Then He turned towards you. Indeed He! He (is) the-returning, the Most Merciful. -
Freedom,
The passage is trying to say that Moses already tried to exhort them but he failed and says Aaron is more eloquent in speech than him.
It is a misconception that the root means kill/fight. It rather means to try to persuade/convince/exhort.
Before Moses flees he tries to convince people and they do not believe him and agrees against him, even the Children of Israel and thus he returns with these signs and show them both to the Children of Israel to gain their support plus go to Pharaoh.
Salaam