So did anyone figured out what salat is?
-
In fact few are doing what they are supposed to be doing.
Be well
What are they, or we, supposed to be doing, and how do we know?
-
By applying our minds.
You should have a remoteness to the world and your body, and act as an image of GOD such as you were created to be instead of succumbing to the beast. In the light of science it means; suppress or control your instinctive drive, the actions which you are doing because of the animal in you.
It is hard for most people to sink in and they think it is extremist, but it is the only way for your spirit was attributed to the body you possess and it clouds the spirit. That is part of the test to assess a specimen. Sounds cruel, but it is how it is. I wonder myself, but I am also glad that soon the pestilence will be gone which may be the reason for this.
GOD uses the parable of agriculture for a reason, i.e. that seeds are planted and the good will be harvested and the failures discarded. The failures did not grow but were absorbed by the earth/ardh. It is "the parable of parables" according to GOD. It is not part of the sectarian version of Quran, but is in chapter 36 of any real interpretation.
Such is written in the compilation.
Be well
-
By applying our minds.
You should have a remoteness to the world and your body, and act as an image of GOD such as you were created to be instead of succumbing to the beast. In the light of science it means; suppress or control your instinctive drive, the actions which you are doing because of the animal in you.
It is hard for most people to sink in and they think it is extremist, but it is the only way for your spirit was attributed to the body you possess and it clouds the spirit. That is part of the test to assess a specimen. Sounds cruel, but it is how it is. I wonder myself, but I am also glad that soon the pestilence will be gone which may be the reason for this.
GOD uses the parable of agriculture for a reason, i.e. that seeds are planted and the good will be harvested and the failures discarded. The failures did not grow but were absorbed by the earth/ardh. It is "the parable of parables" according to GOD. It is not part of the sectarian version of Quran, but is in chapter 36 of any real interpretation.
Such is written in the compilation.
Be well
Well it seems to be happening to me anyway. How far would you like it to go? No sex? I don't have any, just asking though.
-
Well,
The most optimal would be celibacy, but that would mean that your good example might not continue for there are always people who would procreate anyways who are not aware. It is indeed a curse.
You could be a teacher for strangers though without procreation. If you do this you also contribute.
Be well
-
I agree completely with Man of Faith. God is available to guide us all the time not just at 5 office hours. What interests me, however, is, where does 'wudu' fit into the guidance understanding of salat?
-
Hello dawn,
The sectarian - influenced interpretation of 56 is a disaster. I am going to return to it at some point including all other misrepresented passages containing the mention of the word salat.
The very word salawa which is the root means to follow something, remaining attached. I ported the example about a horse race before which reveals it quite well. Salateh is an objectified form of the root, i.e. it forms an object of "to follow" which literally would read "The Following" but in plain English would be "Guidance" to make it more coherent.
Be well
-
I agree completely with Man of Faith. God is available to guide us all the time not just at 5 office hours. What interests me, however, is, where does 'wudu' fit into the guidance understanding of salat?
Those 5 timings are not for "guidance" necessarily, its to take time out during the day in a disciplined and steadfast way to perform a meditative exercise which is to bring one a sense of inner peace through the expression of surrender, its very ancient, and those 5 timings were known around the world, for example the Zoroastrians call them the 5 Gahs. Washing oneself is part of the mental/physical meditative exercise process where one symbolically purifies themselves before approaching the worship portion.
-
By applying our minds.
You should have a remoteness to the world and your body, and act as an image of GOD such as you were created to be instead of succumbing to the beast. In the light of science it means; suppress or control your instinctive drive, the actions which you are doing because of the animal in you.
It is hard for most people to sink in and they think it is extremist, but it is the only way for your spirit was attributed to the body you possess and it clouds the spirit. That is part of the test to assess a specimen. Sounds cruel, but it is how it is. I wonder myself, but I am also glad that soon the pestilence will be gone which may be the reason for this.
GOD uses the parable of agriculture for a reason, i.e. that seeds are planted and the good will be harvested and the failures discarded. The failures did not grow but were absorbed by the earth/ardh. It is "the parable of parables" according to GOD. It is not part of the sectarian version of Quran, but is in chapter 36 of any real interpretation.
Such is written in the compilation.
Be well
I agree very much with this.
Humans completely forgot their "per-earthly" existence...
This life is surely but a test... -
Thank you all for answering. However none of the answers are satisfieing for me currently.
I suppose each has to do the homework for himself on this one but I hoped somebody had some good points or arguments based on Quran.
I am sorry Man of Faith but I dont agree with you it seems you are missing the point (in my opinion). None of the prophets was celibate and all of them had children- it doesnt make sense to take such extreme measures if we should follow them. -
Mmmm,
What kind of point am I missing?
I did not say you had to be a celibate. I said it is the optimum condition.
And prove to me Jesus has children and wife or John the Baptist.
The point in our life is to distance ourselves from the body so that we are not the animal it is. Not the opposite that sectarians seem to imply. Then we can be perfected.
-
Man of Faith I am sorry I could not reply any sooner - I had some troubles with the internet connection.
I feel that in most things you have already made up your mind so I'm not sure my words will have any effect (I suppose we all are like that)
In my opinion the spirit does not fight the body. Islam is the exact opposite of that - it is balancing both, since one is not more importaint/better than the other. Both are equally importaint and finding that balance is the key.
Every prophet had offspring - it is not "curse" as you said but a blessing (you will see in the Quran the news of a offspring is always GOOD NEWS). The proof that all prophets (resuls) had offspring is in 1338, and what about the people in 2574.
What you are talking about is extreme and not Islamic (in my opinion) it reminds me of buddism or some other far-eastern religion...maybe you could try to become "breatharian" and quit eating - that would be the ultimate fight against the materialism.
Peace. -
Mmmm,
Unfortunately the "Islam" you say is not extreme is a deviated sect and does not follow what Quran really says. There is no "blessing" in the body. What I said is the real "deen".
Wish more people could see how damned fooled they are.
And the point is not killing the body, but only getting rid of the animal you which is not you. Separate the spirit from the body. I am not advocating anything extreme. Every spiritual action that you refrained from being controlled by the instincts will make you grow apart from the beast.
I find sectarian Islam to be more dull than what I propose. Month-long fasts, compulsory prayers with mumblings of words and senseless rituals such as pilgrimage to a Pagan ritual site. At least what I say does not have anything of that. And it does not include stopping eating, only not being an animal for it is if you love the beast you that will make you get Gehennom, i.e. you loved Shaytaan who is in all what you do fall victim to instinctive behavior.
Every prophet had offspring - it is not "curse" as you said but a blessing (you will see in the Quran the news of a offspring is always GOOD NEWS).
The Arabic text does not say "good news" but it says something like 'announcement'.
I did NOT say an offspring is a curse, but you do not understand my reasoning. I said celibacy is OPTIMUM, not necessary. If you marry you should stay with whatever partner you got hooked up with. Marriage is better than stray copulation. A union between a man and a woman means the two become as one body and so they should remain because what GOD joins together no one should break apart.
And you have to bring proof Jesus ever had an offspring or a wife for that sake. It was in his prophecy that his body would die relatively early, so why would he get a family?
And sadly you are deluded by the sectarian errors. The spirit is indeed in a wrangling with the body and primarily its instincts. That is your Shaytaan. Shaytaan clouds your real spiritual perception.
Be well
-
Man of Faith,
I don't know why you called me deluded - you don't know anything about my definition of Islam and you just asumed that I am refering to "sectarian Islam".
I am saying that both is equally importaint and finding balance is the key spirit and the body.
So you have the truth about "the real deen"?
I highly doubt that since you are proposing communism as a perfect system - that to me is a sign that either you are not informed well or you don't discern well. (or I misunderstood that too?)Peace.
Sorry if I misunderstood you about celibacy and offspring...and I've already given you the ayat as a proof Isa had offspring (133.
-
Hi mmmm,
Many are deluded by the sectarian errors. They affect me still today sometimes during my reinterpretation and translation project despite that I work on being unbiased. It is nothing to be embarrassed about and not meant a curse word. It means "to make someone believe something that is not true". You may not be referring to sectarian Islam directly, but your bias may still be affected by them.
I highly doubt that since you are proposing communism as a perfect system - that to me is a sign that either you are not informed well or you don't discern well. (or I misunderstood that too?)
I do not understand what people hold against communism. People are usually ignorant of the theory behind that social system and only compare it to illusive applications in the world such as Russia, China or Cuba. These are not communism only someone who decided to call it that. I have said it before that the Sustainer's Kingdom looks very much like communism. The Sustainer would approve the most of a country that had implemented a working system of communism that works as intended by Karl Marx.
A half implementation can be said are countries that are called socialist countries which is from an ideology that communism has adopted its ideas. A full implementation does not really have any private property and it is exactly how the Kingdom of the Sustainer is going to work. Just replace the communist nation with the Sustainer and you have a system that is communism. The one who dislikes that loves the world as it is and has material desires.
A communism is not a dictatorship but quite the opposite. It is meant to be the total democracy and a system with 100% equity where you get what you deserve based on norms and not material wealth. It is not the ideology's fault that there are failed applications that were not really honest ones but just political games and which you refer to.
The communism that was applied in the world has just been a weapon to conquer as a political motive and had little to do with establishing a system of equity.
I am saying that both is equally importaint and finding balance is the key spirit and the body.
You have to make sure the body is sound yes, but be wary of its instinctive drive and primate functionality. You should find your spirit and then control the flesh. Those are two different entities.
While the body should be kept alive and sound, the spirit can grow to any level, so it is wrong to say they must be equally balanced.
Be well
-
" I have said it before that the Sustainer's Kingdom looks very much like communism."
- have you been there and seen it - or you have a direct communication with the Sustainer?
Your view is contradictory to the Quran - not respecting PRIVATE PROPERTY is the main reason why Adam was thrown out of blissful state. If there is no private property you cannot define stealing or inheritance about which we have so much in Quran - so those ayats are there for no reason?
What there is NOT in a perfect world is THE STATE (no dieties or lords other than Allah)
Do you know how much evil is done by the communism, how many people were killed or starved to death and still are by that system? If you knew you wouldn't be saying the things you are or would define your system differentlyhttps//www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcumJNNX0qc
Maybe you are talking about communism without the state - in this case I'm OK for people to live how they will in a FREE world - each soul will bear consequences for their actions but noone should force others into it - it is Quranic concept (4140).
Maybe you are talking about allodial earth but still it's not communism and you shouldn't call it that in respect for victims of it.http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/68/98/
"The Sustainer would approve the most of a country that had implemented a working system of communism that works as intended by Karl Marx."
The Sustainer is not unjust. You think Karl Marx had the divine revelation? - he couldn't sustain himself and lived as a parasite exactly as the system he proposed worked in reality? Learn more about him before you praise - his life is not some model to look up to exactly.
"The one who dislikes that loves the world as it is and has material desires." - you love to make assumptions about other people. Who doesn't agree with your view is a materialist and there is no way that there are other (maybe even better) options?
So eather you are OK with the killing and stealing and injustice done in the name of communism or you are not talking about it at all and then don't call the system that.
Peace.
-
Do you really think that the Kingdom will be anything other than 100% equity and 100% sharing of resources then you are a bit off unfortunately. Only a working communism has that feature of man-made ideologies.
And the story about the tree was an ancient parable and not literal and they did not eat of a tree because it was the Sustainer's. With that logic then you do a crime every day of eating of the Sustainer's material all around you.
So eather you are OK with the killing and stealing and injustice done in the name of communism or you are not talking about it at all and then don't call the system that.
I was speaking about the philosophical theories by Karl Marx and not what people have made with them. Socialism is a semi-implementation of communism.
I already said you judge the work based on what people have done with it. And I spoke about the system in practice and not people who called something communism and then did something else with it.
With that logic you could say a similar thing about Quran.
Be well
-
Just thought I'd bump into the conversation about body and spirit.
I'm currently of the opinion that there is nothing negative about our body. Actually, part of the purpose of our life includes having a body. The material flesh is part of the design, a very special design. We don't have bodies for fun, nor for punishment. I rather think we currently exist as we do, spirit intermingled with body, for a very specific reason. I think we could even think of it as a software sandbox, i.e. a controlled environment where the software is tried out. Part of the environment, the test, is that we have forgotten (as it seems in everyday terms) about any previous life. The danger is to get carried away by the flesh either by 1) thinking that the flesh is all there is, or 2) to be slave under the flesh/brain.
Regarding procreation, I currently don't consider it better to live in celibacy than to have children. The reason is that procreation through children is what humanity is based on, by design, and is necessary from all souls to be able to go through the test of having a life in a body.
As usual, it is the not absolutes that is the crux. It's not the body which is good or bad. Rather it is our awareness and how we relate to the flesh which matters. Do we worship it, or do we use it as a mere tool as long as we have to?
I consider emotions part of the flesh, because they have a direct counterpart in chemical molecules and electric pulses. The real danger arises when we identify with the flesh, the brain, the mind, our thoughts. We are not these things. These things are just part of our Earthly experience, and should be seen as just that, a temporary bio-environment we have to live in ad through. The tricky thing is that we can live our fleshy lives without any spiritual work, but this will probably lead to ruin and a wasted life.
Peace
-
Hi Zulf,
The body is not part of you. It is a contradiction and distraction as part of a test. The best way as per knowledgeable spirit teachers of the past, e.g. Jesus, (some) Dalai Lama it is better to abstain from the "I" which is the primate part of you.
This is not a lie and religious hocus pocus but it is the truth hidden behind a lot of falsehood.
It does not say you cannot have family and kids, but we need to see where our priorities are and where we have that "I" of the beast.
Be well
-
Just thought I'd bump into the conversation about body and spirit.
I'm currently of the opinion that there is nothing negative about our body. Actually, part of the purpose of our life includes having a body. The material flesh is part of the design, a very special design. We don't have bodies for fun, nor for punishment. I rather think we currently exist as we do, spirit intermingled with body, for a very specific reason. I think we could even think of it as a software sandbox, i.e. a controlled environment where the software is tried out. Part of the environment, the test, is that we have forgotten (as it seems in everyday terms) about any previous life. The danger is to get carried away by the flesh either by 1) thinking that the flesh is all there is, or 2) to be slave under the flesh/brain.
Regarding procreation, I currently don't consider it better to live in celibacy than to have children. The reason is that procreation through children is what humanity is based on, by design, and is necessary from all souls to be able to go through the test of having a life in a body.
As usual, it is the not absolutes that is the crux. It's not the body which is good or bad. Rather it is our awareness and how we relate to the flesh which matters. Do we worship it, or do we use it as a mere tool as long as we have to?
I consider emotions part of the flesh, because they have a direct counterpart in chemical molecules and electric pulses. The real danger arises when we identify with the flesh, the brain, the mind, our thoughts. We are not these things. These things are just part of our Earthly experience, and should be seen as just that, a temporary bio-environment we have to live in ad through. The tricky thing is that we can live our fleshy lives without any spiritual work, but this will probably lead to ruin and a wasted life.
Peace
I agree - very well said. I was thinking the same thing.
Man of Faith - you haven't showed me one ayat that would justify your opinion? 100 % equity inthis world is contrary to Quran (6165)? Also if there is no private property ther is no inheritance and how would you define stealing(both of which are mentioned in the Quran?
You might be working in a government agency of some sort - that would explain your reasoning?Peace.
-
You might be working in a government agency of some sort - that would explain your reasoning?
No. I have just read and studied Karl Marx ideology and I know it is based on socialism. And I also know that those states that called themselves "communism" up until this day were just hypocritical dictatorships under a false flag of communism.
Man of Faith - you haven't showed me one ayat that would justify your opinion? 100 % equity inthis world is contrary to Quran (6165)? Also if there is no private property ther is no inheritance and how would you define stealing(both of which are mentioned in the Quran?
It may be because people think like you the Muslim countries look like they do with atheist countries like those in Scandinavia with the best social security systems in the world.
That it is not 100% equity in this world is because man is egotistical and makes it so, but the perfect community would give even resources to all its citizens. It does not require some Quran passages to realize that. Just reflect on the reason why a person is supposed to give to charity. If everyone did then there would be no poverty in the world, but a small percentage of the world's population clings on to the wealth they possess.
Material is just made out of energy/heat and is that worth clinging unto like a primate saying "Mine! Mine! Mine!". If you speak of heritage then you inherit nothing that you will be taking with you when you die.
Even the sectarian interpretation is against materialism and wealth.
Okay. A communism may have private property when it comes to the things in your home etc, but all companies and large corporations are run together by all its citizens and owned that way. The generated profit is then split evenly between all its employees.
And the Sustainer sustains even the sinner so why would not a community provide for a sinner as well?
And 6165 does not say it is more wealth to these people just that there are some with higher rank. Even a communism would require some leader figures.
Anyway, let us drop this. It is off-topic and we get nowhere with it.
Be well