Ramadaan The Correct Tiime To Break Fast
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Peace.
The question is what is "Al-Layl". If Qoran says "Al-Layl" covers the sun, then it starts when the sun goes behind the horizon!
Hence "Al-Layl" is sunset to sunrise. So, until "Al-Layl" means until "the sun sets".
So often, we say we follow Qoran, yet we go on complicating issues . If "Al-Layl" starts at sunset,when does "darkness" set in? Don t you think this will also become an issue?Do we all agree on a certain time after sunset to break the fast? Will we be making a calculated or improvised guess? However the start of "Al-Layl " is clear to everyone around the world when their sun sets".
There is no argument or issue about the "Al-Layl" as far as Qoran goes.
As far as rites are concerned there is no ambiguity about the message from GOD. Messengers are sent to clarify for us our rites clear and simple. Whatever you understand from Qoran go with it, do not follow others without "Bayyinah" from your Lord saying you should follow them. Each will only be responsible for themselves.
GOD bless.
Peace.I have a question for you good logic, how many salaat do you believe Allah prescribed in the Qur'aan. Do you believe its 3 salaat or 5 salaat?
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Peace.
The question is what is "Al-Layl". If Qoran says "Al-Layl" covers the sun, then it starts when the sun goes behind the horizon!
Hence "Al-Layl" is sunset to sunrise. So, until "Al-Layl" means until "the sun sets".
So often, we say we follow Qoran, yet we go on complicating issues . If "Al-Layl" starts at sunset,when does "darkness" set in? Don t you think this will also become an issue?Do we all agree on a certain time after sunset to break the fast? Will we be making a calculated or improvised guess? However the start of "Al-Layl " is clear to everyone around the world when their sun sets".
There is no argument or issue about the "Al-Layl" as far as Qoran goes.
As far as rites are concerned there is no ambiguity about the message from GOD. Messengers are sent to clarify for us our rites clear and simple. Whatever you understand from Qoran go with it, do not follow others without "Bayyinah" from your Lord saying you should follow them. Each will only be responsible for themselves.
GOD bless.
Peace.Good Logic what you said here, it totally false and notice that you did not prove this no where in the Qur'aan
"Hence "Al-Layl" is sunset to sunrise. So, until "Al-Layl" means until "the sun sets"
Al Layl is not Maghrib (Sunset), Al Layl comes after the period of Maghrib (Sunset). Also Al Layl is not sunrise. Sunrise will fall under the period of Fajr and Qur'aan 2187, makes all this clear. I want to take you step by step as I refute this misguided information. Lets begin here, it is important for you to visually look at these two words so that you can clearly see that they are not the same words, they do not have the same meaning and they do not represent the same period of time
http//i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z354/zyvn55/Al%20Layl%20amp%20Maghrib.jpg
Anybody with an iota of intelligence can visually see and comprehend that these words are not the same and that Al Layl and Maghrib ARE TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT PERIODS.
Good Logic, you include Al Layl (The Night) as part of Maghrib (Sunset), which is totally wrong, Al Layl (The Night) comes after Maghrib (Sunset). Now lets examine the Qur'aan so we can clearly see how Allah uses the word Maghrib (Sunset) and how He defines it for us.
http//i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z354/zyvn55/Maghrib%20Quraan%2018%20verse%2086.jpg
We can look at this verse and clearly see that Maghrib means SUNSET, SETTING, WEST. And also note that Allah does not give us the COMMAND to break fast during this period. This period is not Al Layl (The Night); as a matter of fact Al Layl comes after the period of Maghrib. Now that I have proven what is Maghrib in the Qur'aan, now look at the definition below taken from Abdul Mannan Omar Classical Arabic Dictionary, page 400 and you will see the root word Gharaba and Maghrib and it reflects the same meaning in the Qur'aan
http//i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z354/zyvn55/Maghrib%20dictionary%20mannan%20omar.jpg
Every body knows what Maghrib (Sunset) looks like outside, the next time you do Salaat Al-Maghrib, look outside your window. The shade of daylight in Maghrib is totally different from the shade of darkness in Al Layl. For those who are sincerely seeking truth and want to know the correct time to break fast for Ramadaan do not pay attention to these people who are bent on distorting basic, elementary Arabic words that a 5 year old kid can understand. These people are no better than what Allah has condemned about the so-called Jews who distort words, take them out of context from the scriptures of Allah
Qur'aan 513
So on account of their violating their covenant We cursed them and We caused their hearts to become hardened. Consequently, they distort the meaning of the (revealed) words, taking them out of context, and disregarded some of the commandments given to them. You will continue to witness betrayal from them, excepting a few of them. You shall pardon them and disregard them. Allah loves those who are benevolent.Now lets discuss Al Layl (The Night) which comes AFTER Maghrib (Sunset). I want you to carefully examine the verse below so you can see how Allah uses the word Al Layl and how He describes it for us so that there will be no guess work, conjecture about this period which is the same period that Allah tells us to break our fast during Ramadaan.
http//i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z354/zyvn55/Quraan%2079%20verse%2029%20Aghtasha%20made%20dark.jpg
As we can clearly see, during this period of Al Layl, it is total darkness when compared with Maghrib where there is still relative daylight outside. Every body knows what Al Layl looks like outside, quite trying to mystify things, quite trying to distort or conceal the truth. The next time you do Salaat Al-Isha which falls under the period of Al Layl, take a look outside. Again Al Layl and Maghrib are two distinct, separate periods. Allah never told us to break our fast during the period of Maghrib; Allah told us to break our fast during the period of Al Layl (Qur'aan 2187). Now look at the Arabic Dictionary Below that defines Al Layl and you will see that it says "NIGHT TIME" and not "SUNSET"
http//i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z354/zyvn55/Al%20Layl%20Hans%20Wehr%20Dictionary.jpg
Now look at the verse below which is the only verse Allah has revealed where He gave us the COMMAND, the LAW to break our fast during the period of Al Layl (The Night). The word Maghrib (Sunset) does not exist no where in this verse
http//i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z354/zyvn55/Quraan%202%20verse%20187%20NEW%20Arabic%20text.jpg
NOW WHAT ABOUT SUNRISE
Remember Good Logic made a critical mistake by including Al Layl as part of sunrise
"Hence "Al-Layl" is sunset to sunrise. So, until "Al-Layl" means until "the sun sets"
Now that we clearly understand from the evidence of the Qur'aan what is Al Layl and what is Maghrib we can easily dispel Good Logic's flawed logic by trying to include Al Layl at part of sunrise. When we have sunrise we have relative sunlight or daylight outside for the mere fact that the sun is rising but yet Allah tells us in the verse below that during the period of Al Layl is complete total darkness so this will quickly dispel, remove this erroneous belief that Al Layl is part of sunrise
http//i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z354/zyvn55/2%20verses%20Al%20Layl%20is%20night%20dark.jpg
By understanding these simple, easy, short verses in the Qur'aan there is no way on earth some one can sit here like Good Logic and include Al Layl as part of sunrise. Sunrise will be more closely associated with Fajr (dawn). In the same verse (Qur'aan 2187) that Allah gives us the COMMAND to break fast, He also lets us know when we actually start our fast (where we abstain from eating & drinking)
http//i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z354/zyvn55/thread%20of%20light%20at%20fajr2.jpg
http//i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z354/zyvn55/fajr%20Quraan%2017%20verse%2078.jpg
http//i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z354/zyvn55/Sunrise%20Quraan%2015%20verse%2073.jpg
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Peace Al Khidr19 .
I disagree with you. I repeatQoran always has the strongest argument. GOD says
911
By the sun and its brightness.912
The moon that follows it.913
The day that reveals.914
The night that covers.Does this define the "daytime" and "night time"?
Qoran says daytime shows the sun and night time covers the sun. Sunrise to sunset is the daytime. Sunset to sunrise is the night time.
Day time has different periods like morning, noon and afternoon. Night time has different periods like maghrib, night and dawn.
You keep repeating the same false argument from unrelated verses and different contexts. I do not agree with your analysis.
GOD bless you .
Peace. -
Peace Al Kidhr19
Have a look at this alsohttp//www.quran-islam.org/articles/part_3/night_start_%28P1369%29.html
I have no doubt Qoran defines the day and night clearly.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Al Kidhr19
Have a look at this alsohttp//www.quran-islam.org/articles/part_3/night_start_%28P1369%29.html
I have no doubt Qoran defines the day and night clearly.
GOD bless you.
Peace.That article that you presented is written by A. Muhammad and he is one of the proponents of the "3 Salaat Theory" so when it comes to this subject, he is notorious for distorting this area of the Qur'aan and he has to do this in order for him to try to justify him claiming that Allah only prescribed 3 Salaat, instead 5 Salaat. I totally destroyed his nonsense on my website as well as on Freeminds Forum where I have debated this issue. Below is my rebuttal to A. Muhammad clear distortions of the Qur'aan
EXPOSING THE 3 SALAAT THEORY
http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/3salaattheoryexposed.htmThis is where I debated the 3 Salaat theory on this forum
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12200.0
You never answered my question when I asked you if you believe in 3 Salaat or 5 Salaat?
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simple question from all ?
what cause the day to enter night and what cause the night to enter day,
options,
light i mean sunlight
clocks/time
moon
movement of sun and earth
nonne of above.choose the correct answer.
the answer will also indicate the correct understanding of night and day
here is also a hint in scientific books.
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?It is He Who created The Night and the Day, And the sun and the moon All (the celestial bodies) Swim along, each in its Rounded course.? 21 33
3129 Have you not seen that God merges the night into the day, and He
merges the day into the night, and that He has commissioned the
sun and the moon, each running to an appointed term; and that
God is expert of everything you do?so setting and rising of sun will decide the day and night , not any clocks light, or anything else, end of discussion.
peace
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Al Layl is not Maghrib (Sunset)...
Anybody with an iota of intelligence can visually see and comprehend that these words are not the same and that Al Layl and Maghrib ARE TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT PERIODS.
Peace, of course they are all totally different...
Direction ? the path in which someone or something takes (2115, 2142, 2258, 2628, 5517, 7319)
2177 not is the righteousness that turn ye of faces yours before/towards the east wal-maghribi/and the west?
1886 until when reached maghriba/west (i.e. setting place) the sun found it set in spring dark mud?
Point-in-time (sunset), when the sun falls below the horizon not visible (start night).
Example night begins at sunset 739 PM Tuesday, May 31, 2016 in Jerusalem, Israel.Period of time e.g. he slept from sunset to dawn or the entire night/al-layli
914 wa-al-layli/and the night when covers it (i.e. the sun) -
Peace Al Khidr19.
Salat and day/night are two different subjects. I use Qoran and check the information for myself,it does not matter who says it.
I was not endorsing a view ,I was mainly presenting another argument to the readers. Each has to confirm/check all information here or anywhere else,then judge .
Qoran always has the strongest argument.. I have presented verses that define daytime and night time from Qoran.I happen to disagree with your view about "Al-Layl", for me, it is not Qoran based.
Readers can look at both views and check/decide for themselves.
Thank you for the conversation.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Salam,
Layl is the absence of light. The break of fast is night, not evening or sunset.
Fajr/Dawn (which is akin to dusk) is agreed by all to be part of the day (Taraf Alnahar), so I don't see why Dusk becomes part of the night when the subject is fasting...
Regards,
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Peace.
Layl is absence of sun above the horizon.913
The day that reveals.914
The night that covers.For me it is as simple as the description above.
GOD bless.
Peace. -
I've gathered the following from reading the various posts in this thread.
How'bout it?al-layl = from sunset to sunrise, where both sunset and sunrise are instants in time (a couple of minutes long instants ) ) and not extended periods like dawn or dusk.
ghasaq al-layl = the part of the 24 hrs period when sun is below the horizon AND when the light is being removed. Seems like that the quran says that God removes the light from the night.... as in an active process.... like draining a tank. This could be part of night, but a special part (dusk) during which light is "drained". It is layl (since after sundown, but the light has not been "drained" away fully as yet.
maghrib = point of sunset... not dusk, but rather the actual setting of the sun. Once the sun is below the horizon, the maghrib is over.
Have I made some blatant cognitive mistakes?
Peace -
Salam,
Layl is the absence of light. The break of fast is night, not evening or sunset.
Fajr/Dawn (which is akin to dusk) is agreed by all to be part of the day (Taraf Alnahar), so I don't see why Dusk becomes part of the night when the subject is fasting...
Regards,
Salaam, need to use Qur'an definition exactly (minute) starts and ends otherwise amount of light/darkness is subjective.
It?s clearly defined the daytime and the night when they begin/end and no need for guessing...
911 and/by the sun and/by morning rise its (sun)
912 and/by the moon when follows it (sun)
913 and/by the daytime when displays it (sun)
914 and/by the night when covers it (sun)start fast -- when we see the sun's first rays above the horizon (dawn).
stop fast -- when we cannot see it and it falls below the horizon (sunset).2187 ? and eat ye of and drink ye of until is shown for you the thread the white from the thread the black from the dawn furthermore complete ye of the fast to the night... (i.e. sunset)
I've gathered the following from reading the various posts in this thread.
How'bout it?al-layl = from sunset to sunrise, where both sunset and sunrise are instants in time (a couple of minutes long instants
Peace, sunrise is point in time (minute) when entire sun is visible whereas al-layl/the night ends soon as we see its first rays i.e. dawn.
http//www.gaisma.com/en/location/mecca.html
Date Sunset Dawn Length
Today 1902 513 1349 -
Peace, sunrise is point in time (minute) when entire sun is visible whereas al-layl/the night ends soon as we see its first rays i.e. dawn.
This means that in parts of the world, during parts of the year, there is no night, since there is no dark time span.
This sounds odd to me.... no night, even in the night. I'd expect there to be night between every day of the year, or maybe I'm just assuming things.Regarding the areas that are quite far north (north of arctic circle) and still totally civilized, the period duing the summer when the sun never sets last for about a week, and during the winter the sun doesn't rise for about a week (but there is good twilight of course, so it's not dark throughout the day). Again, these extreme period of the year occur during mid winter and midsummer. Quran always talks about balance, so why not have fast when day light is balanced. Just a thought.
Peace
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peace Zulf,
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605500.msg331717#msg331717
from the link you posted
2185 says "...whoever witnessed among you the shahr so/then he should abstain it..."
What happens if you do not witness the shahr?
Well, the straight answer would be no witnessing of the shehr no fasting.
But, what does that mean? And does that sound reasonable?-
What is shehr? Moon of some sort? ok
1b. What does witness mean? To observe the moon in the sky? ok
1c. Why would we only fast if we see the moon in the sky? How the heck does seeing the moon connect to a decision of fasting or not fasting? Sound like something you'd do in a fantasy movie. -
What does shehr mean? The month? ok
2b. What does witness mean? That we acknowledge it in our creed? ok
2c. Why would the Quran include the alternatives of witnessing vs not witnessing a month, and subsequently fasting and not fasting? Wasn't fasting a pillar that we all are supposed to do (with certain exceptions)
Question series 1 seems more in line with what's going on in the world. Male characters of religious authority sit perched behind their telescopes to observe the first glimpse of the Ramadhan moon. The 'witnessing' is taken as 'spotting by ocular means', and the shehr is the moon.
But WHY oh WHY should only those who witness the moon "fast it"? Even if 'fast it' means "to fast during the month associated with the witnessed crescent", I cannot see why the moon is a condition for fasting. What's the relationship?
Human kind has never had problems metering time and establishing calendars, so I see no reason why we need to see the moon in order to fast, AND spotting the moon is in any case not something that happens individually. If one guy or gal misses to spot the moon, is he/she then not supposed to fast? And if he/she can fast anyway, by hearing from his/her friends that the moon has been spotted, then WHY the condition that "whoever witnesses the shehr shall fast it"?
Wasn't saum supposed to bring a host of benefits to us, like cleansing of the body, sympathy for the poor and hungry, clear-headedness etc? Why then condition it with seeing a round reflective rock in the sky? Why not fast anyway? Why the need to witness?
It's all weird.
There are too many loose ends in this matter.So, either we ponder and use our minds, risking being accused of thinking and asking too many questions, or we swallow it all, turn a blind eye, and keep doing what our forefathers have been doing.
Cheers
ps. and if I made some logical fallacy, please let me know
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This question shall be more interesting once human start to colonize other planet.. rotfl
there are eight moons in jupiter ,, lol... which moon we will calculate,, i mean if they really able to make a colony there... hmm
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there are eight moons in jupiter ,, lol... which moon we will calculate,, i mean if they really able to make a colony there... hmm
Two moons on Mars, two suns on Alpha Centauri...
Realistically, my best bet is by the time human have the capability colonize another planet and travel to another stars with ease. The religions as we know today will already be dead / gone, and nobody will even bothered to ask these kinds of questions anymore.
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Peace
How'bout my concerns? I find them quite current and serious. No need to worry about Moons around other planets.
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What is night? Must it be dark? Then there is no night in some places in summers. Post
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What is the connection between moon and fasting? Post
What happens when religion doesn't match with real life? What happens when original scripture and the way we understand it don't match with real life? Do we solve it by setting up exceptions with the help of extra books, or do we conclude our understanding and interpretation of the original instructions is flawed, or what?
Any ideas? I cannot work out the Night Sky Light Dilemma as of yet.
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