Quran is Clear Versus Allegorical in Verse 3:7

[huruf]

Salam,

Guidance comes from the Lord. Quran 26 Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe - has a wide meaning although literally its a statement of fact from the Lord. From this sentence, I understand that preaching is a waste of time. Explaining is also a waste of time.

Discussion and sharing of information is only meaningful with those who seeks the truth from the Quran but the level of clarity or understanding differs from one another ie there should not be coercion, arguments etc. As one reads the Quran, the Quran reveals itself and its embedded rules. Here the saying where you can bring the horse to water but you cannot force it to drink holds true.

Only when someone approach the Quran in the manner prescribed therein will they find guidance and wisdom. One of Quran's rules is to read the Quran with sincerity and leave the explanation, teaching and wisdom from the Lord. But most people do not have faith in the Lord nor the Quran thus before any form of inspiration comes most readers would refer to someone else as teachers. The inspiration from the Lord may come immediately or after years of reading and it all depends on the Lord's wishes, no one can force it.

To me, the opening chapter and the 2nd chapter are the most important chapters to establish the rules when one reads the Quran - of course realisation of this fact comes much later (for me many many years later) but one must have faith for the realisation to set in. Even the instruction to 'read' is somewhere in the middle not set in the beginning. But how many gain wisdom from reading the 1st and 2nd chapter? Looking at the world and the sectarians, I say not many.

I think the concept of preaching has made people worst off. I don't think the Prophet did much preaching, what he did was to point out what was wrong and what was right because the Quran calls for exposing the wrong and showing the right. And for that he was creating anger in the community he lived in. And when he read the Quran, a common language then, those who took interest joined him, and those who did not find it interesting like his uncle just ignored him. But the call to arms against the Rasul is mostly due to him pointing our what is wrong and right. My point is people come to Islam and the Quran due to SELF interest.

It is the Self that has interest in saving itself that will be saved, thus developing in accordance to the Quran. Others are just failed creation, a failed creation is destine for destruction. So for those who think that the Lord is so merciful and love is an overriding attribute is fooling themselves.

Its not a book calling for mass salvation like some religion having flocks of people to follow the religious teacher.If I was present during the Prophet's time and upon hearing the Quran be read

This is right.

When we speak of the Qur'an we must be aware of all this. Also we may conscious that we do not know up to whom or where what we say will be reaching. Some people, like here in forums, may b reading and interested but does not ay much. Other times, wht we say and discuss may be buried in some one's mind and forgotten, may be for many years and then later be retrieved, rediscovered by the person and become manifest.

So I do not think the calm reasonable explanation or statement in the Qur'an is wasted. First because when we do that, we ourelves gain in undertanding, and secondly, because as hanslan and many others here have said, we do not know what will becoeme of what we say, it is in God's hands. So, in the best hnds.

Salaam

[Mazhar]

Quote from hanslam----Quran 26 Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe - has a wide meaning although literally its a statement of fact from the Lord. From this sentence, I understand that preaching is a waste of time. Explaining is also a waste of time.

Disbelieve in what? It is certainly not Qur'aan as is evident from the next sentence; "have not warned them".

[reel]

Though not the answer you'd like... but I find it is pointless to tell people about things they cannot grasp. The hadith-worshiping sectarians would never grasp the idea that God can guide any human being directly without the aid of books or preachers etc. To them, there is no spirituality... only fearful obedience of inked commands on parchment. Deaf, dumb, blind and ignorant in their idol worshiping of material and worldly religion. >(

Salam,

Guidance comes from the Lord. Quran 26 Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe - has a wide meaning although literally its a statement of fact from the Lord. From this sentence, I understand that preaching is a waste of time. Explaining is also a waste of time.

Discussion and sharing of information is only meaningful with those who seeks the truth from the Quran but the level of clarity or understanding differs from one another ie there should not be coercion, arguments etc. As one reads the Quran, the Quran reveals itself and its embedded rules. Here the saying where you can bring the horse to water but you cannot force it to drink holds true.

Only when someone approach the Quran in the manner prescribed therein will they find guidance and wisdom. One of Quran's rules is to read the Quran with sincerity and leave the explanation, teaching and wisdom from the Lord. But most people do not have faith in the Lord nor the Quran thus before any form of inspiration comes most readers would refer to someone else as teachers. The inspiration from the Lord may come immediately or after years of reading and it all depends on the Lord's wishes, no one can force it.

To me, the opening chapter and the 2nd chapter are the most important chapters to establish the rules when one reads the Quran - of course realisation of this fact comes much later (for me many many years later) but one must have faith for the realisation to set in. Even the instruction to 'read' is somewhere in the middle not set in the beginning. But how many gain wisdom from reading the 1st and 2nd chapter? Looking at the world and the sectarians, I say not many.

I think the concept of preaching has made people worst off. I don't think the Prophet did much preaching, what he did was to point out what was wrong and what was right because the Quran calls for exposing the wrong and showing the right. And for that he was creating anger in the community he lived in. And when he read the Quran, a common language then, those who took interest joined him, and those who did not find it interesting like his uncle just ignored him. But the call to arms against the Rasul is mostly due to him pointing our what is wrong and right. My point is people come to Islam and the Quran due to SELF interest.

It is the Self that has interest in saving itself that will be saved, thus developing in accordance to the Quran. Others are just failed creation, a failed creation is destine for destruction. So for those who think that the Lord is so merciful and love is an overriding attribute is fooling themselves.

Its not a book calling for mass salvation like some religion having flocks of people to follow the religious teacher.If I was present during the Prophet's time and upon hearing the Quran be read

I wasn't interested in guiding and preaching them. Yeah, because guidance is the work of Allah, I don't see how I can do it.
However, some of them have the misconception that Quran followers are ISIS,khawarij, Wahabbi, agents of Britain who believe in divide and rule, etc. They think without hadiths Quran is "violent" and that's when the clarity is needed and I was just doing that. Staying silent can mean risking the lives of Quran followers.

[truthseeker11]

Peace reel,

nope Not equivalent

And your point is? After he said that, I corrected my statement in following posts. So you are commenting on a position that I corrected and no longer hold. This is called logical fallacy of Strawman.

Please try to be more careful next time.

21-2 talks about those who do not doubt the unseen spoken about in the Quran does exist.
23 Those who believe in the unseen, and establish the prayer, and out of what We have provided them they spend.

Relevance to my statement? This is called the logical fallacy of Red Herring.

Belief in unseen is not the issue. The issue is the book (referring to the entire book) claims to be a guide for the forethoughtful. It also contains verses that are impossible to be correctly interpreted by humans because only allah knows their correct interpretation per 37. How can verses that are impossible to be correctly interpreted by the forethoughtful be a guide to the forethoughtful?

If the book had said "some of the revelations are a guide to the forethoughtful" then I had no issue.

We always can't. As I said earlier, there are verses about the future like judgement day. Can we use mind/reason to actually interpret what it is? It is there. Quran does give its description. But none, but Allah has knowledge of what it actually is despite the fact that our bad and good sides will be judged that day. It is hard for many to believe this.

Thank you for proving my point. On one hand the quran advises us to use mind/reason to understand its verses. On the other hand it contains verses that are impossible to be correctly interpreted, so no matter how much mind/reason we use we cannot correctly interpret them. Like you agreed "we always can't". So the quran asks us to do something that we always can't.

482 Do they not reflect on the qur'an? If it was from any other than allah they would have found in it many a discrepancy.

3829 A book that we have sent down to you, that is blessed, so that they may reflect upon its revelations, and so that those who possess intelligence will take heed.

2368 Did they not ponder the words, or has there come to them that which had not come to their fathers of old?

Clearly these refer to all the signs. For 2368 look at the context which shows it referring to all signs.

I don't see how 4153 has any link to the discussion here.

4153 says that whether this is the truth (referring to all signs) will be verified to us through signs in the horizons and within ourselves. In other words we can use the signs in the horizons and within ourselves to verify the truth of any quranic sign. But 37 claims there are signs that we cannot correctly interpret. So how can a sign be verified as the truth by any external sign when it is impossible for us to correctly interpret it? To verify its truth we have to know its correct interpretation first!

But don't feel upset. Lets approach it calmly.

What makes you think I am upset? I was actually ecstatic that a poster here cornered himself into an impossible situation. yay yay yay

He made a premise to counter or disagree with my premise (to show my premise was incorrect). Then when asked to bring ONE example to support his premise he couldn't. All he had to do was bring ONE example to shut me up but he failed. Would I be upset over that or be ecstatic?

What you just did is called the logical fallacy of False Premise or Unwarranted Presumption. You assumed a premise about me (which was false), then based your statement on that false premise.

Please be careful next time.

Peace and thanks for all the good works.

[truthseeker11]

Peace everyone,

Following is an excerpt from an article on burden of proof in order to clarify rules of a logical discussion

"The instances of circumstances that provide nuanced exceptions (see below) to the rule are so few and misleading to let it appear they nullify the rule that it is far better to just state that the burden of proof is always on the claim that X exists rather than on the claim that X does not exist. It is a fallacy to claim that X exists unless you prove that there is no X. What is improper is for a person to claim that "X exists" and when asked to prove it, then the person who made the claim uses as a defense of "X exists" the next claim that no one has proven that X does not exist.

If a person claims that X exists and is real then the burden is on that person to supply some support for that claim, some evidence or proof that others can and should examine before accepting it. It is incorrect to think that X exists and is real until someone can prove that there is no X. It is also wrong to think that just because you can not prove that X exists that does not mean that X does not exist and therefore X does exist."

"The person making a negative claim cannot logically prove nonexistence. And here's why to know that a X does not exist would require a perfect knowledge of all things (omniscience). To attain this knowledge would require simultaneous access to all parts of the world and beyond (omnipresence). Therefore, to be certain of the claim that X does not exist one would have to possess abilities that are non-existent. Obviously, mankind's limited nature precludes these special abilities."

http//www.qcc.cuny.edu/socialsciences/ppecorino/phil_of_religion_text/CHAPTER_5_ARGUMENTS_EXPERIENCE/Burden-of-Proof.htm

This is evidence of yet another logical fallacy committed by a poster on this thread.

Following are my negative premises

1. Some verses in the quran are not clear.
2. It is not possible for humans to correctly interpret some verses in the quran.
3. The quran as a whole cannot be a guide to the forethoughtful, some of it can.
4. We cannot use our mind/reason on some verses in the quran.
5. The truth of some verses in the quran cannot be verified by external signs in the horizons and within ourselves.

Burden of proof is not on me but on the one who claims opposite (positive).

Peace

[truthseeker11]

Peace everyone,

I would like to change #3 because it can be misunderstood the way I phrased it.

Following are my negative premises

1. Some verses in the quran are not clear.
2. It is not possible for humans to correctly interpret some verses in the quran.
3. Some verses in the quran cannot be a guide to the forethoughtful.
4. We cannot use our mind/reason on some verses in the quran.
5. The truth of some verses in the quran cannot be verified by external signs in the horizons and within ourselves.

The apparent discrepancy with 21-2 has also been resolved for me because the book can claim to be a guide even if some verses cannot be correctly interpreted, because the other clear verses will be enough to fully guide.

See folks, I am not that hard to convince. I just refuted myself

Peace

[reel]

And your point is? After he said that, I corrected my statement in following posts. So you are commenting on a position that I corrected and no longer hold. This is called logical fallacy of Strawman.

Please try to be more careful next time.

First of all, it was a reply to Wakas' comment based on observation of the compared "sentences". It had nothing to do with you. You were not even mentioned there. Secondly, the point of this thread is to discuss a verse.

Relevance to my statement? This is called the logical fallacy of Red Herring.

Oh no, Wakas and truthseeker, have mercy on "fallacies"

Belief in unseen is not the issue. The issue is the book (referring to the entire book) claims to be a guide for the forethoughtful. It also contains verses that are impossible to be correctly interpreted by humans because only allah knows their correct interpretation per 37. How can verses that are impossible to be correctly interpreted by the forethoughtful be a guide to the forethoughtful?

If the book had said "some of the revelations are a guide to the forethoughtful" then I had no issue.

Thank you for proving my point. On one hand the quran advises us to use mind/reason to understand its verses. On the other hand it contains verses that are impossible to be correctly interpreted, so no matter how much mind/reason we use we cannot correctly interpret them. Like you agreed "we always can't". So the quran asks us to do something that we always can't.

482 Do they not reflect on the qur'an? If it was from any other than allah they would have found in it many a discrepancy.

3829 A book that we have sent down to you, that is blessed, so that they may reflect upon its revelations, and so that those who possess intelligence will take heed.

2368 Did they not ponder the words, or has there come to them that which had not come to their fathers of old?

Clearly these refer to all the signs. For 2368 look at the context which shows it referring to all signs.

Well, I see that the way you are explaining the verse leans more towards "And no one knows their interpretation except Allah and men of understand"

Please correct me if I am wrong.

[truthseeker11]

Peace reel,

Oh no, Wakas and truthseeker, have mercy on "fallacies" P

Sorry, sincere apologies &

Well, I see that the way you are explaining the verse leans more towards "And no one knows their interpretation except Allah and men of understand"

Yes could be; that would resolve all discrepancies the other meaning would cause. But then it leads to a strange sentence as pointed out in this post

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608688.msg391726#msg391726

That is why I was wondering if 37 as found in the current text is exactly the same as in the original quranic text revealed to the messenger. Something seems off. hmm

May the infinite Creator guide us to the truth.

[Hizbullah]

First off, this verse talks about the Umm Al Kitab, with judgemental verses AND the other books, that explain in detail the Umm Al Kitab. In order to understand the verse, we will have to cross-reference with 1037; 1101; 3923?

Q3923 - Allah has sent down the best statement, a Book , similar to each other, second one??

The other books that were similar to each other in context, which there are several , written in various languages, considering the fact that the Quran did mentioned in 1404 where Messengers were sent in the language of his own people in order to make things clear to them. So the other books, is implying to the various Quran in different vernacular but with a similar message, distributed to the different ethnicity around the world

Second, the sentence should be read as "... but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah AND those who are firmly grounded in knowledge. They say "We believe...". In this case, the proposed contradiction is invalid. In this case, the Quran speaks in the 3nd person, showing that the person who spoke conveyed the message that ALLAH commands him to, that is, only ALLAH and those that ALLAH gave firmly grounded in knowledge will know what the meaning of the sentences written in the Quran! So how can there be a FULLSTOP after ALLAH when it is a continuous sentence? Further in the Quran 04162

But those firm in knowledge among them and the believers believe in what has been revealed to you, and what was revealed before you. And the establishers of prayer and the givers of zakah and the believers in ALLAH and the Last Day - those We will give a great reward.

The same word "raasikhuna" is used in this case, showing us that "rasikhuna and the believers", two different set of believers who believe in what was sent to the Prophet and what was sent before the Prophet. I believe that those rasikhuna were taught by the Prophet himself. They have deep knowledge of the Quran. The Quran 16103

And We certainly know that they say, "Indeed it is a MORTAL that teaches him?"

In the above verse, the Mortal was the Prophet and ?him? was in the category of ?raasikhuna?. Since the Prophet was the recipient of the Quran, ALLAH taught the Prophet thru Jibreel, the knowledge of the Quran. As such, the Prophet was the first to know the secret of it in context as per what he was taught. The Prophet, in turn, taught the ?raasikhuna?.

Third, what has been translated as "and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding" meaning the "rasikhuna" were the ones that contemplate and comprehend the meaning in the correct manner". So in this case, proposing a contradiction within the verse is irrelevant.

[Timotheus]

I believe that those rasikhuna were taught by the Prophet himself. They have deep knowledge of the Quran. The Quran 16103
And We certainly know that they say, "Indeed it is a MORTAL that teaches him?"

In the above verse, the Mortal was the Prophet and ?him? was in the category of ?raasikhuna?. Since the Prophet was the recipient of the Quran, ALLAH taught the Prophet thru Jibreel, the knowledge of the Quran. As such, the Prophet was the first to know the secret of it in context as per what he was taught. The Prophet, in turn, taught the ?raasikhuna?.

bismillahi-r-raHmani-r-raHeem

Iqra bismi rabbik aladthee khalaq.
khalaq al-insana min alaq. Iqra, wa rabbuka al-'akram. aladthee alama bil-qalam
alama l-insana ma lam ya`alam

Read! in the name of your LORD who created
HE created the human being from an clinging clot
Read! and your LORD is THE GENEROUS
HE who taught with the pen
HE taught the human being what he did not know

THE GRACIOUS

HE taught the qur'an

HE created the human beings

HE taught him the explanation

so then when we have recited it, then follow its recitation

then indeed upon US is its explanation

[Hizbullah]

But those firm in knowledge among them and the believers believe in what has been revealed to you, and what was revealed before you. And the establishers of prayer and the givers of zakah and the believers in ALLAH and the Last Day - those We will give a great reward.

The same word "raasikhuna" is used in this case, showing us that "rasikhuna and the believers", two different set of believers who believe in what was sent to the Prophet and what was sent before the Prophet. I believe that those rasikhuna were taught by the Prophet himself. They have deep knowledge of the Quran. The Quran 16103

And We certainly know that they say, "Indeed it is a MORTAL that teaches him?"

In the above verse, the Mortal was the Prophet and ?him? was in the category of ?raasikhuna?. Since the Prophet was the recipient of the Quran, ALLAH taught the Prophet thru Jibreel, the knowledge of the Quran. As such, the Prophet was the first to know the secret of it in context as per what he was taught. The Prophet, in turn, taught the ?raasikhuna?.

My apologies to all, Let me rephrase...

In the above verse, the Mortal was the Prophet and ?him? was in the category of ?raasikhuna?. Since the Prophet was the recipient of the Umm Al Kitab, ALLAH taught the Prophet thru Jibreel, the knowledge of the Umm Al Kitab. As such, the Prophet was the first to know the secret of it in context as per what he was taught. The Prophet, in turn, taught the ?raasikhuna? which were recorded in the Quran.

[reel]

My apologies to all, Let me rephrase...

In the above verse, the Mortal was the Prophet and ?him? was in the category of ?raasikhuna?. Since the Prophet was the recipient of the Umm Al Kitab, ALLAH taught the Prophet thru Jibreel, the knowledge of the Umm Al Kitab. As such, the Prophet was the first to know the secret of it in context as per what he was taught. The Prophet, in turn, taught the ?raasikhuna? which were recorded in the Quran.

Thanks Hizbullah for the great explanation.

First off, this verse talks about the Umm Al Kitab, with judgemental verses AND the other books, that explain in detail the Umm Al Kitab. In order to understand the verse, we will have to cross-reference with 1037; 1101; 3923?

Q3923 - Allah has sent down the best statement, a Book , similar to each other, second one??

The other books that were similar to each other in context, which there are several , written in various languages, considering the fact that the Quran did mentioned in 1404 where Messengers were sent in the language of his own people in order to make things clear to them. So the other books, is implying to the various Quran in different vernacular but with a similar message, distributed to the different ethnicity around the world

Second, the sentence should be read as "... but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah AND those who are firmly grounded in knowledge. They say "We believe...". In this case, the proposed contradiction is invalid. In this case, the Quran speaks in the 3nd person, showing that the person who spoke conveyed the message that ALLAH commands him to, that is, only ALLAH and those that ALLAH gave firmly grounded in knowledge will know what the meaning of the sentences written in the Quran! So how can there be a FULLSTOP after ALLAH when it is a continuous sentence? Further in the Quran 04162

But those firm in knowledge among them and the believers believe in what has been revealed to you, and what was revealed before you. And the establishers of prayer and the givers of zakah and the believers in ALLAH and the Last Day - those We will give a great reward.

The same word "raasikhuna" is used in this case, showing us that "rasikhuna and the believers", two different set of believers who believe in what was sent to the Prophet and what was sent before the Prophet. I believe that those rasikhuna were taught by the Prophet himself. They have deep knowledge of the Quran. The Quran 16103

And We certainly know that they say, "Indeed it is a MORTAL that teaches him?"

In the above verse, the Mortal was the Prophet and ?him? was in the category of ?raasikhuna?. Since the Prophet was the recipient of the Quran, ALLAH taught the Prophet thru Jibreel, the knowledge of the Quran. As such, the Prophet was the first to know the secret of it in context as per what he was taught. The Prophet, in turn, taught the ?raasikhuna?.

Third, what has been translated as "and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding" meaning the "rasikhuna" were the ones that contemplate and comprehend the meaning in the correct manner". So in this case, proposing a contradiction within the verse is irrelevant.

I just have one more question. How to connect it with the people who have perversity in their hearts?

[Hizbullah]

Thanks Hizbullah for the great explanation.

Thank you reel, for such a great post... bravo

I just have one more question. How to connect it with the people who have perversity in their hearts?

If you ask me, there are many examples in the Quran, a good example, is the story of Esa, perverted by those who have perversity in their hearts. The story of Esa was written in the Furqan , distributed to the 12 tribal nations that Musa led. Many nations knew of Esa even before he was born. He was a miracle to Mankind. The Quran 04157

And for their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Esa, the son of Mary, the messenger of ALLAH." And not kill him, nor crucify him; but A LIKENESS TO THEM. And indeed, those who differ in it, are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.

ALLAH cause him to die and he will not return . Those with perversity in their hearts make believes that he will come back before the Last Days, that he is a divine figure and all that BS in order to deviate mankind.

What say you?

[reel]

Thank you reel, for such a great post... bravo

If you ask me, there are many examples in the Quran, a good example, is the story of Esa, perverted by those who have perversity in their hearts. The story of Esa was written in the Furqan , distributed to the 12 tribal nations that Musa led. Many nations knew of Esa even before he was born. He was a miracle to Mankind. The Quran 04157

And for their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Esa, the son of Mary, the messenger of ALLAH." And not kill him, nor crucify him; but A LIKENESS TO THEM. And indeed, those who differ in it, are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.

ALLAH cause him to die and he will not return . Those with perversity in their hearts make believes that he will come back before the Last Days, that he is a divine figure and all that BS in order to deviate mankind.

http//www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/hand-gestures/high-five-smiley-emoticon.gif
Ah, now it is clear.

The verse was rotating in the head even when I was sleeping

Thank you so much for being patient with my questions. It is very very clear now.

What say you?

Just sad! That's how most religions have become. I must say though that there is some kind of power in lectures of mullahs/priests. Its been in my head for a while now.

[LastDay3]

Peace All,

I would like to ask a question for some clarity before participating further.

Can one ayat be "tashaabaha"?

Imraan

Salaam/Peace to All,

I believe there are many good points made perfectly clear in this thread (=especially, within some replies of Hawk99, HizbuALLAH, Reel, and also
all other dear brothers/sisters as well),
I have taken all of them in my heart & mind. May AL-LAH bless you all.
All Praise is to AL-LAH. (=55/1-4)

But for me, still the first and most essential meaning of "Ayaatun Mutashabihaat" here (=3/7),
--because of such clear Evidences here-- is as follows

This specific term "tashaabaha" (=looking-similar) brother Imraan has asked about above,
used in QURAN TESTAMENT, for example

heifers that "tashaabaha" (=looked exactly same/similar to each other), (=2/70)
or
ideas/utterances in their hearts that "tashaabahat" (=looked exactly same/similar to each other), (=2/11,

So therefore, we should also absolutely look for the

Verses (=Ayaat) that "tashaabaha" (=looked exactly same/similar to each other) in this respect,
in the whole QURAN TESTAMENT.

There may be many such Verses looking exactly same/similar (=Ayaat Mutashabihat),
but for now, let us clearly see just two Examples here

First Example

They (=the magicians) said "We believe in the LORD of the worlds;
The LORD of Moses and Aaron." (=7/121-122)

So the magicians went down in prostration; they said
"We believe in The LORD of Aaron and Moses." (=20/70)

So we can clearly see that
in these Verses that are essentially looking exactly same/similar (=Ayaat Mutashabihat) above,
there is only one conspicuous difference

Did those magicians say

"The LORD of Moses and Aaron." (=7/122) or "The LORD of Aaron and Moses." (=20/70) therein?

Answer We know that Prophet Moses (Peace be upon Him) was the Prime Messenger therein
who was sent to Pharaoh with these Great MIRACLES above;
for this Reason, it is perfectly plausible that some of those magicians preferred to say, primarily "The LORD of Moses and Aaron." therein (=7/122),

and because that Prophet Aaron (Peace be upon Him) was the Assistant Messenger therein
who actually performed those Great MIRACLES above, under the supervision/command of Prophet Moses (Peace be upon Him)
unto him therein (*please, see it in TORAH, Exodus),
other magicians preferred to say, in this respect, essentially "The LORD of Aaron and Moses."
initially, therein (=20/70),

So there is absolutely no contradiction in those specific Verses that are looking exactly same/similar (=Ayaat Mutashabihat) above,
because they are not contradictory at all, but perfectly Complementary therein (4/82 = 18/1-3).

Second Example

He (=Zachariah) said My LORD, make for me a sign.
HE said Your sign is that you will not speak to the people for three "days" except by symbol, ..... (=3/41)

He (=Zachariah) said My LORD, make for me a sign.
HE said Your sign is that you will not speak to the people for three "nights" consecutively. (=19/10)

So we can clearly see that in these Verses that are essentially looking exactly same/similar (=Ayaat Mutashabihat) above,
there is only one conspicuous difference

Did our LORD said to Prophet Zachariah (Peace be upon Him) therein

... you will not speak to the people for three "days" ... (=3/41) or ... you will not speak to the people for three "nights" ... (=19/10)

Answer We know that our LORD has sent that violent-storm to admonish that wicked people
specifically for seven "nights" (="layalin&quot and eight "days" (="ayyamin&quot therein (=69/7).
So in such a perfectly similar Manner here again,
it is perfectly plausible that HE has also commanded unto Prophet Zachariah (Peace be upon Him) above,
not speak to the people for three "days" (="ayyamin&quot ... (=3/41) and also for three "nights" (="layalin&quot ... (=19/10) therein.

So there is absolutely no contradiction in those specific Verses that are looking exactly same/similar (=Ayaat Mutashabihat) above,
because they are not contradictory at all, but again perfectly Complementary therein (4/82 = 18/1-3).

So let us clearly see these most Critical and important Verses (=3/7- in QURAN TESTAMENT above,
now here again, in this Respect, thus

============
7- HE is the ONE Who sent down to you the Written-Document,
from which there are Firmly-Established Verses (=Ayatun Muhkamatun);
they are the Essence of the Written-Document (=Ummu al-Kitab);

and others which are Vaguely-Established (Verses) =(Ayatun) Mutashabihatun =those looking-Similar Verses
as we have clearly witnessed two of them above);

As for those who have a crookedness in their hearts, they will go after that which are of Vaguely-Established-Ones (=ma tashabaha minhu);
seeking (to create) confusion, and seeking (to demand) its rightful interpretation/explanation.

But none know its rightful interpretation/explanation except AL-LAH and those who are well founded in Knowledge;
they (=i.e. those who are well founded in Knowledge) will say

"We have believed in it;
(for) all --(of those Firmly-Established Verses and Vaguely-Established Verses mentioned above)-- are perfectly from our LORD."

But none will take-heed except those who possess intelligence.

8- (They will also say, thereafter, again)
"Our LORD, do not make our hearts deviate --(especially because of those
Firmly-Established Verses (=Ayatun Muhkamatun), and also Vaguely-Established (Verses) =(Ayatun) Mutashabihatun
=those looking-Similar Verses as we have clearly witnessed two of them above)--
after YOU have perfectly Guided us, and grant us from YOU a Mercy/Blessing. (For) certainly, YOU (Alone) are the Grantor."

(QURAN TESTAMENT 3/7-

---

*As I promised earlier, I will also give that Perfect Example
that may clearly and unmistakably show us what has been meant --also and especially in Mathematical respect
for/in this Final Age now-- above

with regard to this Most CURIOUS & Most MIRACULOUS Phenomenon above
in my next post, soon, inshaAL-LAH.

---

Remain in peace/salaam.

[good_logic]

Peace.

This is exactly why GOD says" Alrasikhuna Fi Ilmi".
So many people are hasty with Qoran and claim many contradictions in it, this only shows they are not "Alrasikhuna Fi Ilmi"
Because Qoran, New knowledge/findings/history/logic/Science... etc proves them wrong easily.

Qoran requires study with patience, answers to all the questions are within its verses.
May the Lord grant us the knowledge,patience and help to understand Qoran.

GOD bless.
Peace.

[hawk99]

Thanks to you to bro for the input. Do you mean to say mutashbihtun verses are those that can be interpreted in different ways?

Peace reel, yes that is the very nature of mutashbihtun. The intender (Allah) knows the
meaning, and we human folks are to take the best therefrom. This is the nature of the test.
There is something about who we are, (circumstances, humility, empathy, culture, ego,
disbelief, hypocrisy etc.,) that leads us to our understanding. However, we have the
Quran Kareem and it's context i.e., righteousness as a guide to understand how the overall
text is to be understood. Those who are astray will take allegorical/examples/similitudes
the wrong way (out of the context of the Quran).

God bless peace

[savage_carrot]

Peace.

This is exactly why GOD says" Alrasikhuna Fi Ilmi".
So many people are hasty with Qoran and claim many contradictions in it, this only shows they are not "Alrasikhuna Fi Ilmi"
Because Qoran, New knowledge/findings/history/logic/Science... etc proves them wrong easily.

Qoran requires study with patience, answers to all the questions are within its verses.
May the Lord grant us the knowledge,patience and help to understand Qoran.

GOD bless.
Peace.

There is something about who we are, (circumstances, humility, empathy, culture, ego,
disbelief, hypocrisy etc.,) that leads us to our understanding.

Interesting, my view is similar...some signs aren't static and since God teaches, one possible interpretation could be that God knows best what understanding is correct for which person depending on circumstances etc and it's on us to have patience, not to jump the gun, understand comprehensively as well we can and take the best meaning and so on to complete the circuit so to say. Pretty much has to be an active connection from both sides.

[huruf]

If everything was fixed in stone, we wouldn't move. But the thing is tht if we lives n years intead of just a second it is because in those years we are supposed to busy ourselves with expperiece an through it and reason and heart grow to be what you are meant to become. So, we cannot, never know everything every way. That challenge ad, why not, thhe pleasure is tht of learning, discovering. if God's words never posed to us any connumdrum... what a monumenttal boredom, which may sound shallw as a remark but it is also true, that we are thirsty for more, always to go beyond where we are. If we are i love we want more love, if we cquire some knowledge we wat more knnowledge... in a sense the key to our existence is tobe inatiable and at the same time satiated and satisfied. Being also satisfied with the fact that we are capable of bein more satisfied still.

Salaam

[hawk99]

Interesting, my view is similar...some signs aren't static and since God teaches, one possible interpretation could be that God knows best what understanding is correct for which person depending on circumstances etc and it's on us to have patience, not to jump the gun, understand comprehensively as well we can and take the best meaning and so on to complete the circuit so to say. Pretty much has to be an active connection from both sides.

I agree, that is why I believe Allah says we are responsible for using our brains.
However, oppression I believe is a mitigating circumstance.

If everything was fixed in stone, we wouldn't move. But the thing is that if we live in years instead of just a second it is because in those years we are supposed to busy ourselves with experience an through it and reason and heart grow to be what you are meant to become. So, we cannot, never know everything every way. That challenge ad, why not, the pleasure is that of learning, discovering. if God's words never posed to us any conundrum what a monumental boredom, which may sound shallow as a remark but it is also true, that we are thirsty for more, always to go beyond where we are. If we are I love we want more love, if we require some knowledge we want more knowledge... in a sense the key to our existence is to be insatiable and at the same time satiated and satisfied. Being also satisfied with the fact that we are capable of being more satisfied still.

Salaam

I agree, except I would not say "thirst" for more. In my case I would say "need" more
to obtain peace. Surah Shams in regards to the soul IMHO speaks of an ongoing process
of growth to a better person in all areas of life.

Peace.

This is exactly why GOD says" Alrasikhuna Fi Ilmi".
So many people are hasty with Qoran and claim many contradictions in it, this only shows they are not "Alrasikhuna Fi Ilmi"
Because Qoran, New knowledge/findings/history/logic/Science... etc proves them wrong easily.

Qoran requires study with patience, answers to all the questions are within its verses.
May the Lord grant us the knowledge,patience and help to understand Qoran.

GOD bless.
Peace.

) well said, Allah is always correct, it is for us to figure out how and why!

peace