Hello all, this is my new home !
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although the translations of rk are nice but again its just translations , he just did something with two verses which cause lot of people to turn away from his teachings...
he should not do a thing which was not authorised to him... instead of rejecting the verses there were other solutions which could solve the problems for him but i dnt know why God let it happen like it , otherwise 19 would be a Big idol , now after that atleast people use reason instead of blind faith...
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Peace Dakhan.
You mean RK got that verse translated right according to your footnote?
I wonder why throw away all of RK s translation then?
Like I said I found some of his work inspired. The best out the hundreds of translations I have studied.In fact the majority of today s translators are copying his work.
GOD S invisible forces that guard Qoran will not allow any insincere person to have access to Qoran. RK must have been sincere at least?
The sad thing is some are copying him and discrediting him at the same time. Strange.
GOD bless you.
Peace.In a group convo, the translator of the Quran I am using (translated by the admin of quran-islam.org) had this to say about RK's translation when I confronted him about RK's translation-errors
The translation of RK, even though contains numerous errors, yet is a very sincere translation and delivers the message of the book perfectly well. In addition, unlike all the translation that were available at the time of RK, it is not influenced by, nor promotes hadith whatsoever.
It was for that reason that when I launched my site (17 years ago) it was the best translation available at the time.Here is a example how the Quran I am using is translated A member in the google-group questioned the new Quran-translation and preferred RK's translation of verse 3357. The admin of Quran-Islam.org responded to the member with the following post
Salaam *****,
Thank you for your comment.
When I translate the Quran I like to be consistent with words I translate rather than translate them differently in various verses, unless we have clear evidence that a word in the Quran has more than one meaning (like for example the words Salat and Zakat).The word "Yu'thoon" means to cause Atha ... Atha in Arabic means harm.
We cannot get away from this meaning.
So "Yu'thoon" means to cause harm.I see your point that using "oppose" suits the context of 3357 better since no one can harm God.
But the way I understand this verse is that the disbelievers "think" that they are harming God by harming His messenger ... so the intention of harm is in their minds, but as you said no one can harm God.
This is not any different from the phrasing in the following verse
They attempt to deceive God and those who believe, but they deceive none but themselves without realising it.
In theory, no one can deceive God, but they "think" they are doing it ....
this is the same in 3357 .... they "think" they are harming God, but they can never do that, all they do is harm themselves.The reason I reject RK's translation is because he added his name in some verses, to back-up his claim for being a messenger, for example
We have sent you (O Rashad) to this community, just as we did
for other communities in the past. You shall recite to them what we
reveal to you, for they have disbelieved in the Most Gracious. Say,
"He is my Lord. There is no god except He. I put my trust in Him
alone; to Him is my ultimate destiny."We have sent messengers before you (O Rashad), and we made
them husbands with wives and children. No messenger can produce a
miracle without GOD's authorization, and in accordance with a
specific, predetermined time.We have sent you (Rashad) as a deliverer of good news, as well
as a warner.We have sent you (O Rashad) to all the people, a bearer of
good news, as well as a warner, but most people do not know.Say, "I ask you to do one thing Devote yourselves to GOD, in
pairs or as individuals, then reflect. Your friend (Rashad) is not
crazy. He is a manifest warner to you, just before the advent of a
terrible retribution."Are they saying, "He (Rashad) has fabricated lies about GOD!"?
If GOD willed, He could have sealed your mind, but GOD erases the
falsehood and affirms the truth with His words. He is fully aware of
the innermost thoughts.Your friend (Rashad) is not crazy.
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7411 So leave Me alone with the one I have created.
7412 And I gave him abundant wealth.
7413 And sons to bear witness.
7414 And I made everything comfortable for him.
7415 Then he is greedy, wanting that I give more.
7416 No. He was stubborn to Our revelations.
7417 I will exhaust him in climbing.
7418 He thought and he analyzed.
7419 So woes to him for how he analyzed.
7420 Then woe to him for how he thought.
7421 Then he looked.
7422 Then he frowned and became bad tempered.
7423 And then he turned away in pride.these are some important verses in the chapter in which the 19 angels of hell fire are being mention by God...
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RK have two editions of translations one before messengership one after messengership ,
that indicate something fishy was going on his mind...
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7449 Why did they turn away from this reminder?
7450 Running like zebras
7451 Who are fleeing from the lion
7452 Does each one of them want to receive the scripture personally?
7453 Indeed, they do not fear the Hereafter
7454 Indeed, this is a reminder
7455 For those who wish to take heed
7456 They cannot take heed against GOD's will. He is the source of righteousness; He is the source of forgivenessthis is rk own translation of ending verses... specially 52 verse is enough to understand... lot of things
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7430 Upon it is nineteen
7431 And We have made the guardians of the Fire to be angels; and We did not make their number except as a test for those who have rejected, so that those who were given the Book would understand, and those who have faith would be increased in faith, and so that those who have been given the Book and the believers do not have doubt, and so that those who have a sickness in their hearts and the rejecters would say "What did God mean with an example such as this?" It is such that God misguides whom He wishes, and He guides whom He wishes. And none know the soldiers of your Lord except He; and it is but a reminder for human beings
and look at rk translation
7430 Over it is nineteen
7431 We appointed angels to be guardians of Hell, and we assigned their number (19) (1) to disturb the disbelievers, (2) to convince the Christians and Jews (that this is a divine scripture), (3) to strengthen the faith of the faithful, (4) to remove all traces of doubt from the hearts of Christians, Jews, as well as the believers, and (5) to expose those who harbor doubt in their hearts, and the disbelievers; they will say, "What did GOD mean by this allegory?" GOD thus sends astray whomever He wills, and guides whomever He wills. None knows the soldiers of your Lord except He. This is a reminder for the people
interestingly there is not a christian and jews mention in the original arabic. that shows it was already something was going on his mind... and this verse itself is enough to tell us that only God knows everything fully...
oh wao its a coincidence or what its my 1900 post ... 19 x 100 and the date is 19 as well...
i appreciate that the mathematical code is also have a significant part but due to that significant part we should not allowed to drill quran for the sake of code.. quran does not required any code.. any science ..
the science and code and everything when we put in quran then we get amazing results...
quran is the source of these amazings not these codes and scientific facts...
quran is the source of light , lamps are not required for that light ... this light(quran) is itself an amazing piece of wonder...
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Peace Dakhan.
You mean you agree with the rest of his translation? In other words if he did not claim to be a messenger you would have kept /agreed with his translation?For me Qoran is the "Furqan" that determines the claim. If Qoran backs the claim,then there is no issue.
People make too much fuss about "messenger". Qoran is clear that the message is the most important part.
Messengers come and go, messengers are humans that eat the food and go to the market and do whatever every human does. Messengers are also a test for the people.For some people nobody is qualified/deserves to be a "new messenger", they follow what every generation before them have followed,their parents and their ego. Their messengers never come. And for some,their parents messenger will be the last messenger for them.
Qoran says otherwise,that GOD will keep sending messengers, it is not a big deal.Also if a "new messenger" preaches to follow GOD Alone and only His message what is the issue? Qoran is GOD s living messenger,after all human messengers come and go and only GOD s message will remain.
Another example from RK s translation
4610
Say, "What if it is from God and you disbelieved in it? A witness from the Children of Israel has borne witness to a similar phenomenon,* and he has believed, while you have turned arrogant. Surely, God does not guide the wicked people."4611
Those who disbelieved said about those who believed, "If it were anything good, they would not have accepted it before us." Because they were not guided to it, they said, "This is an old fabrication!"4612
Before this, the book of Moses provided guidance and mercy. This too is a scripture that confirms, in Arabic, to warn those who transgressed, and to give good news to the righteous.His explanation is here
*4610 This witness is Rabbi Judah the Pious (11th Century A.D.), who discovered the same 19-based mathematical code in intact fragments of the scripture .For me this makes sense,there was a "Rabbi Judah" in history that agrees with what he is saying.
Like I said I am only interested in the "better translation" when compared with others. One that makes sense and is backed up by facts.
Of course at the end it is GOD Alone who guides anyway regardless of any translation.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Dakhan.
You mean you agree with the rest of his translation? In other words if he did not claim to be a messenger you would have kept /agreed with his translation?Peace. I haven't read the rest of RK's translation. I had read the full article of http//www.quranaloneislam.net/rashad-khalifa-exposed which claimed that RK added his own name to the Quran translation. All I did was a search-command on RK's translation to check if it was true or not. I have no desire to read his translation because I am already reading the translation from quran-islam.org. Surely since two verses are removed from this new translation just like from RK I will definitely not claim it to be the best translation. But just like how RK's translation was once the best translation available at the time, it is the same with the translation of quran-islam.org I haven't seen a better version of it so far. But I do not feel loyalty to a translation, my loyality is only to God and when I come across a better translation I will switch to next best translation without hesitation.
You should stop defending RK's translation and always be critical of what you read. Don't become a sheep.
Peace.
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Peace Dakhan.
When you say this
You should stop defending RK's translation and always be critical of what you read. Don't become a sheep.It sounds very weak and deviating from the subject.
Also according to your reasoning,one would be a sheep whatever translation!!!!!
Look, I said my concern is with what Qoran says. Does the translation agree and makes sense with the original text.
I am only interseted in discussing Qoran verses and what they mean.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Dakhan.
How can you judge a translation if you have not read it? This does not make sense to me,quote
All I did was a search-command on RK's translation to check if it was true or not. I have no desire to read his translation because I am already reading the translation from quran-islam.org. Surely since two verses are removed from this new translation just like from RK I will definitely not claim it to be the best translation. But just like how RK's translation was once the best translation available at the time, it is the same with the translation of quran-islam.org I haven't seen a better version of it so far. But I do not feel loyalty to a translation, my loyality is only to God and when I come across a better translation I will switch to next best translation without hesitation.
In that case it is futile to discuss this further as I cannot see how it is possible for you to judge /have an opinion on something you have not read,not willing to read!!!!
Your view sound bias to me,since you are not being fair.
GOD bless you.
Peace -
In that case it is futile to discuss this further as I cannot see how it is possible for you to judge /have an opinion on something you have not read,not willing to read!!!!
Your view sound bias to me,since you are not being fair.
GOD bless you.
PeaceI also haven't read the Hadith's so does that mean I am not allowed to talk about the hadiths ? The Quran is very clear about the usage of hadiths. Reading the hadith just to please others would make me a hypocrite.
Also somehow you think that I said that I have read all verses of RK's translation ? I never said that and I will never plan to read his translation.
My first Quran-translation was filled with notes from imams and hadiths. Does that mean that I should keep that Quran only because a handfull verses are correct translated ? I doubt it. -
I remember being called a Quranist on Ummah forum since I was the biggest troll there. lead me to watch some RK videos and read his stuff, I believe he went insane later on and used hadith to justify many things, added alot of theories not mentioned in the Quran. He had a scary face too
I believe since all of you want to learn and discover more, study Arabic on the side and compare different translations later on. I wish I had time to improve my Arabic even though I'm Egyptian but soon I will.
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Peace, I will look into a way of how I can upload that translation. But I will wait first till that translation is finished. Currently it is in the revision phase, which means the verses are each by each being re-checked for any translation-mistakes.
Interesting, that the verse you give is one of the few verses that got a footnote attached to it. I will forward it to youFor the one who thinks that God will not support him in this world and in the Hereafter, let him reach out to the sky with his cause, then sever all else. Then let him see if his action removes what aggravates him.
Footnote 2215 ? This verse has been subject to various misinterpretations. Some claiming that God is advising us to dangle a rope from the ceiling and hang ourselves! Obviously this can never be the correct understanding since it would contradict with the Quranic prohibition of taking any life except in the course of justice. These glorious words in actual fact provide a great test for all people with regards to how much they trust and depend on God. God invites anyone who doubts God?s support in this life or the Hereafter, to turn to the sky (in prayer to God) and sever his dependence on anyone else. He should then look and see if this action removes what has been aggravating him or not.
Peace Dakhan welcome!
The Koran Interpreted first publication in 1955, Professor A.J. Arberry was close...
2215 Whosoever thinks God will not help him in the present world and the world to come; let him stretch up a rope to heaven, then let him sever it, and behold whether his guile does away with what enrages him.
We can pick up the discussion here perhaps since this is going off topic.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607061.msg396008#msg396008
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7419 So woes to him for how he analyzed.
sometimes the verses amazed me more than i can imagine...
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I remember being called a Quranist on Ummah forum since I was the biggest troll there. lead me to watch some RK videos and read his stuff, I believe he went insane later on and used hadith to justify many things, added alot of theories not mentioned in the Quran. He had a scary face too
I believe since all of you want to learn and discover more, study Arabic on the side and compare different translations later on. I wish I had time to improve my Arabic even though I'm Egyptian but soon I will.
True isn't it ? At some point the translations will nolonger satisfy and the need to learn old-Arabic on your own gets bigger and bigger. I don't know where and how I should start with this. I fear a teacher would teach me all the Arabic words wrong. Because he would be a hadith-follower or for whatever bad reason. I guess I just wait and pray to God to put me on the right track regarding understanding the Quran. But sometimes I wonder... were we humans ever supposed to fully understand the Quran in some point in our short life ?
I wonder, even how much despicable the hadith-believers are, in the end they all turned to hadiths because the Quran could not satisfy them They couldn't understand it and in their despair for truth they turned to the Hadiths... sad events. Sad history. What should we do, when we don't understand the meaning of a Quran verse or the way to interpret it ?
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True isn't it ? At some point the translations will nolonger satisfy and the need to learn old-Arabic on your own gets bigger and bigger. I don't know where and how I should start with this. I fear a teacher would teach me all the Arabic words wrong. Because he would be a hadith-follower or for whatever bad reason. I guess I just wait and pray to God to put me on the right track regarding understanding the Quran. But sometimes I wonder... were we humans ever supposed to fully understand the Quran in some point in our short life ?
I wonder, even how much despicable the hadith-believers are, in the end they all turned to hadiths because the Quran could not satisfy them They couldn't understand it and in their despair for truth they turned to the Hadiths... sad events. Sad history. What should we do, when we don't understand the meaning of a Quran verse or the way to interpret it ?
You can search for an Arabic teacher to teach you the language but don't tell him its for studying Quran so he won't be translating everything according to what hadith influence he has.
I too believe we have to know the main message of the Quran and the general laws. Somethings we wont understand and we might even get them wrong but I think the effort is what counts and the reason behind it.
These hadith followers just love to worship humans, they always want to be like cattle never using their own brains to think. I hated how I was told I'm not supposed to understand the Quran and only the Sheikhs do. It's truly sad how people believe in that nonsense and try to justify it.
For your last Question, if something is not understood I just use my conscious and ask God to guide me. Even if I made a mistake I believe God will forgive me.
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Peace Imran.
Yes brother,all verses are amazing!! here is another one
3630
How sorry is the people's condition! Every time a messenger went to them, they always ridiculed him.History keeps repeating itself.Look how the verses describe history to us
753
Are they waiting until all (prophecies) are fulfilled? The day such fulfilment comes to pass, those who disregarded it in the past will say, "The messengers of our Lord have brought the truth. Are there any intercessors to intercede on our behalf? Would you send us back, so that we change our behaviour, and do better works than what we did?" They have lost their souls, and their own innovations have caused their doom.For example Noah
761
He said, "O my people, I am not astray; I am a messenger from the Lord of the universe.762
"I deliver to you the messages of my Lord, and I advise you, and I know from God what you do not know.763
"Is it too much of a wonder that a reminder should come to you from your Lord, through a man like you, to warn you, and to lead you to righteousness, that you may attain mercy?"And Hud
767
He said, "O my people, there is no foolishness in me; I am a messenger from the Lord of the universe.768
"I deliver to you my Lord's messages, and I am honestly advising you.769
"Is it too much of a wonder that a message should come to you from your Lord, through a man like you, to warn you? Recall that He made you inheritors after the people of Noah, and multiplied your number. Remember God's blessings, that you may succeed."And so on...Same today as it was yesterday,we found our parents doing it or we are too arrogant to accept a "human like us" to deliver GOD s message to us? Or do each one of us want their own revelation exclusively delivered to them?
Does it ever occur to us?
7100
Does it ever occur to those who inherit the earth after previous generations that, if we will, we can punish them for their sins, and seal their hearts, causing them to turn deaf?May the Lord stop us from turning deaf to His messengers and message.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
peace GL , exactly... God chooses his messengers ...
and its not allowed for me you or any random person to choose himself as a messenger...and there is a big difference betweena messenger and a messenger of God...
yahoo msn are also messenger...
mobile is also a messenger...
what is the difference between an athorised messenger and unathorised messenger..?
what is the worth of msn yahoo if i write something else and the reciever recieved something else...?
what is the purpose and mission of messenger, due to which a messenger called a messenger?
how we distingusih between true messenger? by his message or lies... is it possible for a messenger to speak from his own wish?..
i have a list of questions... when u answer all this we will continue ... btw if i m not wrong here you are telling us RK is also one of the messenger of Allah who we reject and ridicule ?
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Peace Imran.
I am saying the following
3620
A man came from the other end of the city, saying, "O my people, follow the messengers.3621
"Follow those who do not ask you for any wage, and are guided.3622
"Why should I not worship/serve the One who initiated me, and to Him is your ultimate return?3623
"Shall I set up beside Him gods? If the Most Gracious willed any harm for me, their intercession cannot help me one bit, nor can they rescue me.3624
"In that case, I would be totally astray.I am reminding to double check and make sure our ego does not come between us and GOD s trial!!!!
GOD has warned us?
7101
We narrate to you the history of those communities their messengers went to them with clear proofs, but they were not to believe in what they had rejected before...Each one of us is only responsible for their own neck.
May the Lord guide us to His path.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -