Hello all, this is my new home !
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3525 And if they deny you, then those before them have also denied. Their messengers went to them with the proofs and the scriptures and the Book of Enlightenment.
5725 We have sent Our messengers with clear proofs, and We sent down with them the Book and the balance, so that the people may uphold justice.
567 O messenger, deliver what was sent down to you from your Lord, and if you do not then you have not delivered His message; and God will protect you from the people. And God does not guide the rejecting people.
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and your point is ?
are u asking from me or GL ?
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The difference between RK and the messengers mentioned from the Quran RK claimed to be the messenger only after he had gained followers. Many leaders of modern cults for example Ahmadiyya claimed their messengerhood only after they gained support/power.
These claims of "messengerhood" is actually what puzzled me..
WHY would Mohammad, RK or anyone feels the need to claim such thing and/or asking testimony from others for such claim...
As if they're not confident enough for their own claim as such they need the acceptance or reference from others...Mohammad I'm Mohammad, a God's messenger
Me Oh ok great.. do you love your job?
Mohammad Do you believe that I am a messenger?
Me Of course Mo... you just said so yourselves.. why shouldn't I?
Mohammad You do? Really? Can you testify that I am a God messenger?
Me Hey mo.. sure... anything to make you happy.... by the way, why would you need such testimony anyway.. are you applying for the same role in another company? -
why we need a driving instructor?
ans so that we learn how to drive?
what if i dnt follow instruction?
ans then possibly you dnt know what red light mean , what happen if u drive in intoxication, you dnt know speed limits, then its a risk to harm yourself and other...why we need swimming instructor?
for time being lets get out of this, muhammad moses jesus they are not present now?
no body can see God and meet God in person?so we left with a message ... lets check the message either it from God or not?
so the message is here from last many centuries.. the difference between true message and fake message we can point out easily ...
why we need an instruction manual everytime we buy a thing , and we start a job... ?
what happen if we dnt use instruction manual...
then people will , do illegal sex, rob, steal, murder, and things what lead them towards harm more than benefit...
why moses come to save a nation...
why jesus come to amend the ways
why muhammad come for a purpose ?religion is attitude for spending life the way creator told us to.. its a reminder...
why we cannot promote everybody to next level of class without testing.
why everybody cannot go to medical college?list of questions but the message is the answer to almost all the questions..what we encounter in life
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2213 The people used to be one nation, then God sent the prophets as bearers of good news and warners, and He sent down with them the Book with the truth so that they may judge between the people in what they were disputing. But after receiving the clarity, the people disputed in it due to animosity between them. And God guided those who believed with His permission regarding what they disputed in of the truth. And God guides whoever He wishes to a straight path.
379 It is not for any human being that God would give him the Book and the authority and the prophethood, then he would say to the people ?Be servants to me rather than God!? Rather ?Be Devotees for what you have been taught of the Book, and of what you have studied.?
544 We have sent down the Torah, in it is a guidance and a light; the prophets who have submitted judged with it for those who are Jewish, and the Devotees, and the Priests, for what they were entrusted of the Book of God, and they were witness over. So do not be concerned with the people but be concerned with Me; and do not purchase with My revelations a cheap price. And whoever does not judge with what God has sent down, then these are the rejecters.
3345 O prophet, We have sent you as a witness, and a bearer of good news, and a warner.
i hope these verses help some people who are serving God in a confuse manner
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why we need swimming instructor?
A true swimming instructor will not bothered to claim that I'm a swimming instructor or ask other to testify as such..
Michael Phelps Hi dude
Me I know who you are! Man.. you're a good swimmer! You won many medals!! Please please teach me how to swim!!
MP Sure dude, I love to teach it to you and also share you some of the tips, let's hit the pool and ask your friends to come along..Michael Phelps never claimed to be a good swimmer or even ask others to testify that he's a good swimming instructor.. because he's already has the self-confident that he is...
why moses come to save a nation...
why jesus come to amend the ways
why muhammad come for a purpose ?Everyone have their own life purpose...
Moses, Jesus, John, Isaiah, Jeremiah or sages from other culture such as Lao Tse, Confucius, Zarathustra never asked others to testify that they're God's messenger.. They just do it, teach, instruct, lead, set a good example.. and didn't care much about how other testify about them..
Even Moses made a mistake, and he was asked to learn about wisdom and humility from a 'servant of God' whose name is not even being mentioned.. (1865)
Only within the Muhammedans branches of tradition we observed the attitude of "claiming messengership" and then ask others to testify..
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Only within the Muhammedans branches of tradition we observed the attitude of "claiming messengership" and then ask others to testify..
if you mean sunni and shia group then i have no issue you are right?
but
as far i know the message is prety clear... about things regarding testimony..
what muhammad teach in Quran is different than what other messenger teach?
did he not say the same set of rules what other claimed?
the concept of shahda come from the early disease what is commonly found in chirstian faith , they beleive untill there is not a seal of jesus on your back you will not be saved... similar to sunni/shia shahda if you will not accept prophet muhammad and ali as a prophet/wali of God you will not be saved... but hold on a second... we are discussing about what God commmand us to.. do
by default beleiving in prophet mean beleivng in what he bring as a message..? if you have any issues with message then we can proceed talk there are only two possibilites either the message is not from God or its from God...
379 It is not for any human being that God would give him the Book and the authority and the prophethood, then he would say to the people ?Be servants to me rather than God!? Rather ?Be Devotees for what you have been taught of the Book, and of what you have studied.?
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A true swimming instructor will not bothered to claim that I'm a swimming instructor or ask other to testify as such..
there are again two things...
a person on road claimed he is a doctor
a person in hospital authorised by medical community to operate surgery?what is the difference , if you have to select a doctor for ur surgery what you will gona do? lol
if you go ur way of thinking then a person on road can also operate surgery there is no need of asking him about his qualification and skills... isnt it...?
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the concept of shahda come from the early disease what is commonly found in chirstian faith , they beleive untill there is not a seal of jesus on your back you will not be saved... similar to sunni/shia shahda if you will not accept prophet muhammad and ali as a prophet/wali of God you will not be saved... but hold on a second... we are discussing about what God commmand us to.. do
I believe the concept of Shahada came centuries after the Prophet Peace be upon him. If my memory is right it was because of the Jizya incomes getting lower and lower. Apparently the non-muslims started to claim themselves as muslims to avoid paying the Jizya. lol. So the rulers decided to make such claims OFFICIAL and had to bring them to court in front of everyone to testify LA ILAH ILA LAH AND MUHAMMAD RASUL ALLAH..And of course If someone does something not "muslim" friendly or goes back to his religion he is dead voodoo
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if you mean sunni and shia group then i have no issue you are right?
By "Muhammedans" branches I mean Muhammedan branches, Sunnis, Shiites, RK sect, Quranist, Ahmadiyas, Wahabbis etc..
They all share quite similar mindset...what is the difference , if you have to select a doctor for ur surgery what you will gona do? lol
I haven't found any MD who asked me to testify that he's an MD.
And any good MD will not mind even when I don't believe in his capability as an MD.. he will just advice me to get another MD..
He will not call me a kuffar or unbeliever, enemy of Allah (or the Hospital) or curse me to hell for all eternity.Now... this specific case is more absurd, (Mohammad, RK, Ghulam Ahmad and others), they're all dead... but they're asking for other people who they never met... to testify something about them...
the concept of shahda come from the early disease what is commonly found in chirstian faith , they beleive untill there is not a seal of jesus on your back you will not be saved...
Perhaps...
Yet there is no record in the bible which stated that Jesus asked anyone to testify something about him....
However there is a segment on "When Jesus met John on the banks of Jordan river".. and instead of debating who are among them is the greatest (or who should testify to whom), both of the above gentlemen exchange praises to each others.I believe the concept of Shahada came centuries after the Prophet Peace be upon him. If my memory is right it was because of the Jizya incomes getting lower and lower. Apparently the non-muslims started to claim themselves as muslims to avoid paying the Jizya. lol. So the rulers decided to make such claims OFFICIAL and had to bring them to court in front of everyone to testify LA ILAH ILA LAH AND MUHAMMAD RASUL ALLAH..And of course If someone does something not "muslim" friendly or goes back to his religion he is dead voodoo
Similar motives to Catholic Inquisition in Spain...
Described in quite easy-to-digest details in
https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_InquisitionHowever I think the introduction of the Shahada came much earlier...
The shahada was introduced along with the dogma of "Last Prophet / No More Revelation From God".
it was perhaps triggered by this event.. a possible 'rivalry' of those who claimed to be 'prophet'...
https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musaylimah -
@ jaffar in other words u have issue with the message ... or you suggest there should be no message at all...
how will you become MD if your universtiry will not testify your degree... ?
why did a doctor need a degree that is testifed by the different bodies...?
what is a different between an authroised and unathorised doctor?
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These claims of "messengerhood" is actually what puzzled me..
WHY would Mohammad, RK or anyone feels the need to claim such thing and/or asking testimony from others for such claim...
As if they're not confident enough for their own claim as such they need the acceptance or reference from others...Mohammad I'm Mohammad, a God's messenger
Me Oh ok great.. do you love your job?
Mohammad Do you believe that I am a messenger?
Me Of course Mo... you just said so yourselves.. why shouldn't I?
Mohammad You do? Really? Can you testify that I am a God messenger?
Me Hey mo.. sure... anything to make you happy.... by the way, why would you need such testimony anyway.. are you applying for the same role in another company?Peace brother,
Very well said I agree totally handshake
May Allah reward you with the best pr -
Quote from imrankhawaja on 23 Sep, 2016 1906
the concept of shahda come from the early disease what is commonly found in chirstian faith , they beleive untill there is not a seal of jesus on your back you will not be saved...Perhaps...
Yet there is no record in the bible which stated that Jesus asked anyone to testify something about him....
However there is a segment on "When Jesus met John on the banks of Jordan river".. and instead of debating who are among them is the greatest (or who should testify to whom), both of the above gentlemen exchange praises to each others.This is something that clergymen have attributed to Jesus teachings and they misrepresented them. He said the way is through the "I AM" (one's self/independent being), but the translators thought he referred to himself (as he spoke Syriac Aramaic but the Biblical Gospels are in archaic Greek). If no one ever reflected upon what he really taught he focused on you helping yourself rather than others in the first place and he said that you have to find yourself before you will find your origin/originator (father they translated it from abbu). Everyone must learn to see themselves or rather be self-aware. It has nothing to do with egoism, but it is about letting your inner seed develop fully like Jesus said about the seeds spread out and which would grow. He further enhanced it by asking "why do you focus on the splinter in your brother's eye while you have a beam of wood in your own? First remove yours and then you can better help your brother". The path is primarily a personal path and we should not interfere with how others lead it by forcing them to (religious) rules.
But simple things were mistranslated from Jesus sayings and this causes many problems.
Jesus was very impressed by John the Baptist and his spiritual progress and did praise him very much and wished him to baptize him. He was clearly affected by the news that John had been executed.
Jesus fully recognized the law of Moses, but he gave his elaboration on it, however he did not abolish a single letter from the law either. He said he fulfilled it and that he did. By fulfillment he meant to make it even better. His mission with the Injeel was to elaborate on the Law, that is basically the meaning of Nun-Jiim-Lam (A nejil). He added greater elaboration on what the teachings of the law imply. Jesus also said the Law will last through all time.
Who here recognizes the commandments? You have not forgotten about them?
Those are the core of your faith. Your spiritual development depends upon them. They are your remedy against your own body's instinctive drive as we say with modern scientific advancements of psychology and human behavior. The instincts which will drive you to
Hierarchy
Materialism
Vanity
Indulgence
Egotism
Dominate
Sexual vanity
Greed
Dubious methods
JealousyThis is what the so-called 'Ten Commandments' gives a remedy for and what Jesus elaborated upon. Understand this and you will understand what you should actually accomplish and not some vain religious doctrine which leads to nothing and the portrayal of a worldly deity in some pathetic way.
All we seek for you is to BECOME SOMEONE and not just a mindless slave. Everything is centered on you and what you will make of yourself and it is wisest to make a noble one of yourself and then you must have confidence and believe you can do this. Master the instincts instead of letting them master you, this is the beginning and then pass through separated. And remember this world is just vanity and was made to corrupt its inhabitants, and this is what the remedy of the 'Ten Commandments' were for.
Be well
Amenuel -
Man of Faith, if it is about becoming Someone. Are people like David Beckham, Brad Pitt, Kanye west, Putin are successful? I mean they ARE Individuals that's for sure. They are objects of imitation for millions of people. Thus their beings are pretty strong.
Peace
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This is something that clergymen have attributed to Jesus teachings and they misrepresented them. He said the way is through the "I AM" (one's self/independent being), but the translators thought he referred to himself (as he spoke Syriac Aramaic but the Biblical Gospels are in archaic Greek).
Were you there?
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@ jaffar in other words u have issue with the message ... or you suggest there should be no message at all...
how will you become MD if your universtiry will not testify your degree... ?
why did a doctor need a degree that is testifed by the different bodies...?
what is a different between an authroised and unathorised doctor?
It's not the main point, like I said, even a good MD will gladly let me choose another MD if I don't believe in his capability or merely because I decided to do so.. He will never curse me or condemned me to hell or sue me... because believing or not believing in something is my basic human rights.
Speaking about MD and healthcare, let's link that back to Jesus story (or legends)...
He didn't have any Med degree, yet he was known as a healer...
He BUILT SUCH REPUTATION through of course.. healing people.... and never charged any fee or asked for any health insurance..
Similar case can be found on the story (or legends) of Lao Tse..None of those gentlemen had asked anyone to testify anything about him...
Yet they earned such reputation through their own deed.Christiano Ronaldo never asked anyone to testify that he's a good football player too..
He earned such reputation through his action on football field....
He of course has his own fair share of 'hater'.... but he never cursed them because they're an unbeliever of his skill at football..Regarding "God's Revelation / Message", God is still continuing to send His message up until now...
He doesn't need any prophets / messenger to do so.. or to put it in another way, everyone or everything can be a prophet / messenger for His message.Very well said I agree totally handshake
May Allah reward you with the best prIF Mohammad (Or RK or Ghulam or Krishna or Jesus or Lao Tse or Whomever) is really a true messenger of God's message.
Then he would really care less about anybody testimony about him...
The mission objective of a messenger is to deliver the message..
The message should be the focus and not the messenger..We read about it also in the Quran, about the story of Moses and an unnamed 'wise person'... (1865)
Perhaps even Moses doesn't really know about his name..
Yet due to his anonymity nobody ever created a cult or religion around him..A leader is best when people barely know he exists
Of a good leader, it is he who talks little,
Bearing and nurturing,
Creating but not owning,
Giving without demanding,
Influencing without threatening,
When his work is done and his objective fulfilled,
The people will say, ?We did this ourselves.?
-- Lao Tse, Tao The Ching -
Good quote, Jafar.
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It's not the main point, like I said, even a good MD will gladly let me choose another MD if I don't believe in his capability or merely because I decided to do so.. He will never curse me or condemned me to hell or sue me... because believing or not believing in something is my basic human rights.
brother i asked something else you took it to hell or heaven...
i make it simple , forget about the results after surgery... if you died or get alive by successful or unsuccessful operation its your own choice of selecting wrong doctor...
my question started from doctor not from patient...
i asked are you rejecting the message of quran ? or you are suggesting there should be no need of prophet?
or there is no need of book?and i asked more things like for becoming a doctor,, why its important that he get testified from recognising bodies..?
why i need to attest my degrees for getting job?
what make me qualified as a degree holder? (marksheet, degree)
why i need a universty for degree?what i do with my degree is next step of debate either its imp or not for getting job, money..
same if you claim God does not require to send messengers and books , you need to provide something logical in your claims ..
He doesn't need any prophets / messenger to do so.. or to put it in another way, everyone or everything can be a prophet / messenger for His message.
so its you who is more knowledgeable than God to suggest what God should need to do... for sending hsi message brilliant bravo
about this of your wordings look what is written in quran...
prophet did not say anybody to testify or glorify him for redemption or reward... the message is pretty clear.. it we who consider who was he... and the discussion split to the sects agendas..
Say, "I am but a human being like you, being inspired that your god is One god. So whoever looks forward to meeting his Lord, then let him do good works and not set up any partner in the service of his Lord."
Say "I am no different from the other messengers, nor do I know what will happen to me or to you. I only follow what is inspired to me. I am no more than a clear warner"
And they say "If only a sign was sent down to him from His Lord." Say "Indeed, the unseen is for God, so wait, and I will wait with you."
The Day God will gather the messengers and He will say "What was the response you received?"; they said "We have no knowledge, You are the Knower of all the unseen."
his duty was to convey the message... thats it...
or if you believe God willl send signs to every body personally here is another verse...
7452 Does each one of them want to receive the scripture personally?
before taking the car into fourth gear i started a discussion from first starting gear... when you answer your logics then we will also proceed to next level of discussion...
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Were you there?
rotfl no he get revelation inspired to him in dreams , he is also in line with insightful person... when somebody asked him about muhammad he give a reply like this ...
One was an impostor, that is what I know, whether he lived for sure or was a myth I do not know. However I received information that there is a Muhammad, but I do not know when he lived.