Homosexuality LGBTQI and the deen
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This is completely true.
As a young man who does reflect on himself, I can tell how it is of a "natural" to be driven by your emotions.
We seek and long for attachment and even the simplest forms of attachments from a certain someone as a reply to our inexplicable emotions. And then build them even stronger and bigger under hope and wishful thinking of "the better state" of self when the attachment with that person is accomplished. Now this attachment may or may not be accomplished (and may or may not result in a marriage) but we do live as slaves trying/hoping for its accomplishment, until it is accomplished or you have new emotions.
It is surely a hard test, specially for a lonely person.
But one thing for sure Man Of Faith, you make such hardships seem ridiculously easy lol, I gotta credit you for that.
I have not said it is easy though, but one has to have confidence that the control over matter is a necessity.
It can give bad conscience sometimes when you do not seem to care about anything with passion, when there is an instinctive detachment and you have a family of your own. I have to struggle hard to emulate that on a daily basis. I could seem like a robot, but I am a good actor. However with many things which ought to come natural I got issues with.
When your consciousness grows you will gradually gain a subconscious change and you will sense the detachment. You only have to strengthen your being. To Be is to be Being. And then you cannot be absorbed by primitive and vain, unproductive activities of this world.
The body only requires minimal stimulation of the "fun factor" in order to retain healthiness, but our instinct does not hold any limit and we will go towards excess without conscious input. And that is true for anything else too for that matter.
We should not make so many needs for ourselves in this world. Enslavement is deteriorating the spirit.
Be well
Amenuel -
There is nothing wrong with emotions, or passions, or reason or feelings. All is a matter of attending to eah aspect in due measure and in balance with everything else.
To say that emotions are bad is to say that God creates bad things. Emotions make us kare for other people, build something with other people. Aseticism itself is not voi of emotion, quite the opposite, only it is a cetin type o emotion. Is it wrong? Not in its due measure. In excess it is wrong, but it is not the emotion itself that is wrong, it is the excess or the lack.
Salaam
Emotions are a fleshly reaction and not necessary, but they can feel pleasant however also be a burden. The less affected by emotions you are the less burdening your life is overall.
One example is if a family member dies, but your detachment from passion makes you get over it quickly and it does not affect you adversely.
If you have a passionate affection to people around you might not care much about the person whose life events turned him/her into darkness. But if you were emotionally detached and thought logically you might have had a better understanding and tolerance. What does it take to care for someone who is opposed to you? You must not be marked emotionally when the person hurts you.
Emotions are also a part of your main drive to acquire things in life.
God created the human body as a test and it is a temporary envelope. The failures will be given new skins to be burned over and over again.
Everything is about always acting in a logical and rational way. It will not be possible in a realm of emotions. This is why is world is not efficient. People have their emotions, their passions.
Dare to be a robot! It is nothing to be embarrassed about, and you can laugh about it too when you observe your acting from your elevated consciousness as a result of it all. And God has humor. You should only know how much God is amused by you people. Many of you make God into some military dictator. The bloke is the most clement being. But God does not have primitive emotions but can control it without this weakness.
Be well
Amenuel -
my question is still pending ?
what are the requirements to make a relation between same sex legal/halal?
3021 And from His signs is that He created for you mates from yourselves that you may reside with them, and He placed between you affection and mercy. In that are signs for a people who reflect
This? Finding someone to feel and share affection and mercy? Quiet and respect? Nooot easy to find at all. And I don't see procreation implicit here... What about couples who can not have children, then?
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3021 And from His signs is that He created for you mates from yourselves that you may reside with them, and He placed between you affection and mercy. In that are signs for a people who reflect
This? Finding someone to feel and share affection and mercy? Quiet and respect? Nooot easy to find at all. And I don't see procreation implicit here... What about couples who can not have children, then?
its not about children, its about a physical relationship...
ok i ask a question in straight forward way..
what are the requiremrents to make a physical relation between two same sexes permisible/halal/legal?
male and female even have limits for the relationship.. when it comes to physical involvement.. apart from wedlock the physical relation is not encouraged by God...
so what wedlock or requirement must be fullfilled to be a homo or lesbo?
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God's wedlock is precisely that flesh relation, wedlock as distinct from fleshrelation is a human fabrication which has given unhonourable humans a way out of the mithaq ghalith that is mentioned in the Qur'an regarding that relationship. Wedlock is that or is nothing, because if you do not take the flesh relation as the mithaq ghalith then you are saying in fact that wedlock between any two persons no matter the sex is perfectly possible, you are shooting your own foot.
Hole is hte human relation between male and female because that is the source of new life, if not, it is nothing, and anything can be invented, wedlock, wedding, or whatever social entertainmen or legal paper but no social act and no paper will give birth to a new being.
Salaam
i think u are unable to understand what i ask so in that case i advise you to read it again...
what is the link of birth with physical relationship.. apart from process ..?
do people only sex for creating kids or there is something else?BOLD yes the cause of human birth is a liquid instead of paper i can understand that but its not the answer of what i ask...lol
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You should only know how much God is amused by you people. Many of you make God into some military dictator. The bloke is the most clement being. But God does not have primitive emotions but can control it without this weakness.
Be well
AmenuelRED You talk a lot lately about you. Are you better than us?
And you for sure do not know what God thinks of us, that is because you do not know what God knows, you are just a simple human being just like me.
And in case you did not know, a lot of your posts are one emotional lap of text just like my posts, you have the same issues as me. -
i think u are unable to understand what i ask so in that case i advise you to read it again...
what is the link of birth with physical relationship.. apart from process ..?
do people only sex for creating kids or there is something else?BOLD yes the cause of human birth is a liquid instead of paper i can understand that but its not the answer of what i ask...lol
No, the cause of human birth is not a liquid but divine will and divine mercy. And if you do not get the right answers may be because you donot ask the right questions.
In fact when people make a distinction between wedlock and having sex relations is not because of sex, but because of mean interest, nothing to do with divine mercy or divine will, so when that same people get shocked by other people doing this or that which has nothing to do with divine will or divine mercy why is that?
Salaam
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Peace imrankhawaja, is it a matter of our support or is it
a matter of what Allah says?O0
peace
for sure one thing i know about Allah he did not order fahish actsso what i m asking is, if any body recommend this act then what are the procedures for making it halal/legal between same sexes i dnt think i ask something difficult... confused
point number 1 , sex between male and female... without marriage bound/contract/oath is prohibted by God...
point number 2 same thing applied to same sex partner ... but there is a missing link , if anybody can find out this missing link it would b helpful for all of them who want to do homosex lawfully ... -
No, the cause of human birth is not a liquid but divine will and divine mercy. And if you do not get the right answers may be because you donot ask the right questions.
In fact when people make a distinction between wedlock and having sex relations is not because of sex, but because of mean interest, nothing to do with divine mercy or divine will, so when that same people get shocked by other people doing this or that which has nothing to do with divine will or divine mercy why is that?
Salaam
allright lets go back bit more , the cause of human birth is due to the blow of God spirit ... ... before that blow human being was absent in time and space... is it ok or shall we come to point ... first u bring papers then u bring this stuff... anything else is responsible for human birth... yeh whats about test tube babies... ! but thats not what i ask ... i m repeating it second time...
so according to you the cause of homosexuality is due to the divine will of God bravo
in that case i want procedures that make homsex halal/legal if not then any type of sex without the wedlock is not allowed to us.. including sex with cat, dog, dolls, kids , trees, any any other thing...
NOTE instead of giving answer on human birth and human history i would like you to answer the actual thing what i m on about... u can see the reply what i give to brother hawk... for making urself understand better..
peace
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some answers...
homosex is allowed anytime with anybbody..
homosex is allowed with sincear and true emotions
homosex is allowed for supporting eachother incase if giver do job to support the taker same like husband wife
homosex is for the people who want change rotfl
homsex is a different relation than male female hence no rules required ...
homsex is allowed if male did not find any female and only option left is male...
annd yeh homosex is also encouraged for slaves boys so that they will never left alone , so the slaves who are homo give them their right ... so owner of homosexual slave is responisble for giving him food and relationship.. &just find partners anywhere and do whatever you want without any consequences.. becoz its totally a different catagory and moreover its not forbidden by God...
look i helped you out for giving some logical answers ... now its your turn ... hope you also got some logical answers what God say about these acts...
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allright lets go back bit more , the cause of human birth is due to the blow of God spirit ... ... before that blow human being was absent in time and space... is it ok or shall we come to point ... first u bring papers then u bring this stuff... anything else is responsible for human birth... yeh whats about test tube babies... ! but thats not what i ask ... i m repeating it second time...
so according to you the cause of homosexuality is due to the divine will of God bravo
in that case i want procedures that make homsex halal/legal if not then any type of sex without the wedlock is not allowed to us.. including sex with cat, dog, dolls, kids , trees, any any other thing...
NOTE instead of giving answer on human birth and human history i would like you to answer the actual thing what i m on about... u can see the reply what i give to brother hawk... for making urself understand better..
peace
Acccording to me most people who extend speaking about legal sex, speak about leglaities and not about God's will and mercy, and onl come to that when some issue like homo sex is introduced. As long as that is not introduced sex is no pproblem.
To start with I disagree with dividing people between homo hetero and any of those categories. People are persons and very few people seem to have true respect for sex. That lack of respect for sex, which is God's gift and will, is legla or illegal is just playing with words and beating around the bush. If there is so much weight being put on same sex or different sex it is because in fact we do not know what we are talking about and in fact we do not want to know. In fact we are quite happy in a world where morals rest on papers and hearsay and public opinion, and majoritiies? and statistics. We use sex, we do not have respect for it nor see it as a gift and a mercy but as a good for consumption, a tool for standing. That it is same sex or different sex. There are millions upon millions of women and girls being traficked nd being forced into prostitution for sheer force or by need and that does nto get us angry nor makes us charge and claim for God's words... That shows all the respect we have for sex and how much we care for God's will and words. In fact sex is a tool of power it is not a gift for our improvement but something we feel empowered to consume just like eating in restaurants.
If there is so much !flowering! of same sex might it something to do with it that "hetero sex" is resally no such thing but a power exercise, a status symbol, a show of power also in that we make it holy or dirty at will by our filthy papers and so on?
We live in a paradise of lust and power sex but we anly get angre when some niceties are overlooked?
The fact is that the whole thing stinks.
Of course I am speaking of the general "atmosphere". I am sure there are many decent and God fearing people who in spite of the poisonous atmosphere still have the proper respect and thankfulness for God's gifts.
Salaam
Salaam
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peace
for sure one thing i know about Allah he did not order fahish actsI agree on this.
But like Hawk said it's NOT about supporting gays or whatever.
The thing is that it is a fact that some people are born different from you and me, who are we to judge for them of what they do in their personal life?
Allah is fully aware of what He creates, it's better to let Him judge them and us instead of each other. -
The thing is that it is a fact that some people are born different from you and me, who are we to judge for them of what they do in their personal life?
Allah is fully aware of what He creates, it's better to let Him judge them and us instead of each other.brother i agree that allah aware what he create, and i also agree its he who will judge everybody and he is sole owner of everthing including judgement day...
but what i ask is .. there are always some prerequisites of everything incase God allowed it what is the evidence in quran that support it?
second thing let say its permissible...we again come at two points
sex is also permissible under certain conditions , some people like sister huruf could not grasp the meanings of wedlock , but wedlock is a word similar to , nikkah, marriage, mutual partnership , relationship , or whatever name you will give it ..apart from that if somebody do sex it consider as cheating ... even the socities who dnt beleive in weddings the couples are not meant to sex with anybody else apart from their spouses/partners... first thing clear ..
second thing in case of gays/lesbians what are the rules ? thats what all i am asking ... are they allowed to have as many partners as they want what if they also married with somebody else for kids and beside this they also engagge in homosex , in that case it sounds like lust/fahish/cheating ..?
peace
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Acccording to me most people who extend speaking about legal sex, speak about leglaities and not about God's will and mercy, and onl come to that when some issue like homo sex is introduced. As long as that is not introduced sex is no pproblem.
To start with I disagree with dividing people between homo hetero and any of those categories. People are persons and very few people seem to have true respect for sex. That lack of respect for sex, which is God's gift and will, is legla or illegal is just playing with words and beating around the bush. If there is so much weight being put on same sex or different sex it is because in fact we do not know what we are talking about and in fact we do not want to know. In fact we are quite happy in a world where morals rest on papers and hearsay and public opinion, and majoritiies? and statistics. We use sex, we do not have respect for it nor see it as a gift and a mercy but as a good for consumption, a tool for standing. That it is same sex or different sex. There are millions upon millions of women and girls being traficked nd being forced into prostitution for sheer force or by need and that does nto get us angry nor makes us charge and claim for God's words... That shows all the respect we have for sex and how much we care for God's will and words. In fact sex is a tool of power it is not a gift for our improvement but something we feel empowered to consume just like eating in restaurants.
If there is so much !flowering! of same sex might it something to do with it that "hetero sex" is resally no such thing but a power exercise, a status symbol, a show of power also in that we make it holy or dirty at will by our filthy papers and so on?
We live in a paradise of lust and power sex but we anly get angre when some niceties are overlooked?
The fact is that the whole thing stinks.
Of course I am speaking of the general "atmosphere". I am sure there are many decent and God fearing people who in spite of the poisonous atmosphere still have the proper respect and thankfulness for God's gifts.
Salaam
Salaam
long post but its not what i ask..
my answer is still missing...BOLD so if i m not wrong understanding you then sex is a gift of God... money is also a gift of god...
but cheating with somebody for getting both things make it sin instead of Gift...on other words gifts are not to be violated by the laws of god...
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Cheating for anything is wrong that does not make wrong the thing you cheat for. And everything, bsolutely everything must be administered with justice, that is, in due measure.
Laws are there for marriage in the Qur'an not because without those laws there is no lawful sex, which s marriage itself, but because people indeed can cheat with sex and those who would be cheated must be protected. Most of the times thorugh history marriage laws have done many times the opposite, instead of protecting they have thrown disgraced women out of society and that still happens. So tht papers instead of for protection are used to trample on people legally and ferociously. But that does not turn papers into the mithaq ghalith the Qur'an speaks of as sex, that is marriage.
Therefore all the talk about "homo" and other "x-sexual" is translated into the realm of romantic involvements and sex as social standing because in fact we have lost the idea and the sense of sex between woman and man as the mithaq ghalith and turned into a social convenience and not something derived from God's very direct rahma.
If we do not have due reverence for a mithaq ghalith that God's explains to us, and treat it as a convenience, why are we shocked that people come up with other conveniences? It is not something different, it is part of the same outlook and standpoint.
Salaam
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Cheating for anything is wrong that does not make wrong the thing you cheat for.
stealing is wrong but if it done to feed poor then its not wrong becoz feeding poor is not wrong...
cheating on your wife and doing sex with same gender is wrong but sex is not wrong ... rotfl brickwalljust let me know when you find on which grounds homosex is permissible ? when we can say its not cheating or its not lust or its not fahish or its not violate the society related emotions specially its not a good idea if a husband is gay ... she have to face real difficulties ...
by the way how many same sex partner we can have .. in one time , 4?
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the whole lgbtqi thing from the west is purely based on sexuality and nothing else
these folks identify with their sexuality first and foremost
i wouldn't even use that expression if you believe in the quran
homosexuality in the west is plagued with STDs for a reason, and that reason is not a lack of education
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brother i agree that allah aware what he create, and i also agree its he who will judge everybody and he is sole owner of everthing including judgement day...
but what i ask is .. there are always some prerequisites of everything incase God allowed it what is the evidence in quran that support it?
Support what exactly? Being gay?
Would be strange if God creates a human who is different from the majority and then forbids for that person to be who he/she is.second thing let say its permissible...
we again come at two points
sex is also permissible under certain conditions , some people like sister huruf could not grasp the meanings of wedlock , but wedlock is a word similar to , nikkah, marriage, mutual partnership , relationship , or whatever name you will give it ..apart from that if somebody do sex it consider as cheating ... even the socities who dnt beleive in weddings the couples are not meant to sex with anybody else apart from their spouses/partners... first thing clear ..
Was this a question? If so then I did not understand what you are asking.
second thing in case of gays/lesbians what are the rules ? thats what all i am asking ...
Rules for having sex you mean? If so, then what are the rules for sex for hetero's?
are they allowed to have as many partners as they want
Are you allowed to have as many partners as you like?
what if they also married with somebody else for kids and beside this they also engagge in homosex , in that case it sounds like lust/fahish/cheating ..?
peace
Is it ok for a hetero to be married for kids (or whatever) but cheats on his/her partner?
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some people like sister huruf could not grasp the meanings of wedlock , but wedlock is a word similar to , nikkah, marriage, mutual partnership , relationship , or whatever name you will give it ..
I grasp perfectly the meaning of wedlock, it is you who do not grasp that that is the question that matters for this whole theme and other themes.
You say "similar to , nikkah, marriage, mutual partnership , relationship , or whatever name you will give it .."
similar to... no, welock is nikah, marriage... Don't be set on comfort, wedlock is marriage, man, you are discovering America for the millionth time, of course that we know, the uestion is that you do not want to get to what it is that God says is wedlock. You wnt your wedlock, not God's wedlock and I do not think you do it out of rebeliousness, but out of being caught in a mindset that is very much set and acannot gete out of it.
Because then you explain (?) a little more you say, after marriage being indeed marriage you say "mutual partnership", mutual ppartnership is mutual partnership not marriage. I can have a mutual partnership with my mother, with a friend, even and "homo" friend, with my sister or brother. Mutual partnership does not say a damn thing...
then you exlain (?) a bit more relationship... Really? I am so surprised... So, relationship, all relationships are a relationship, More times discovering America.
And then you give the most accurate exlanation of all "whatever name you may give it"No, not us who givs names, God and He calls "the going into each other" mithaq ghalith
The other requisites gien for marriage are not marriage itself but the sort of gurantees that are put so that nobody is defrauded in her or his good faith.
If you want partnership, you have many people to enter into partnership with them, without getting into the mithaq ghalith that Gods calls that "attaining each other" of aya 4.21. Friendship, comfort you can have also with a friend without any sex.
Of course everybody wants to have a person that should be his or her twin soul, but that is no rquisite for attaining to each other.
The question is that whether we like it or not,, it is to that attaining each other to what God gives weight and calls mithaq ghalith not to anything else, no matter how much you may think that it suits you.
Men are very proud and arrogant they seem to think that it is them that set what is what. God says differently, and that is why so much talk about gtb or whatever is so muh knoise because we do not know what we are talking about, and worst of all, we do not want to know, all we want is that somebody confirms us that which button is pushed red or green, we do not have to understand anything, we do not have to reflect on anything we just have to react to buttons.
Have whatever button may please you, it is al false.
Salaam