Question on Prayer (salaat)
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Thanks progressive for your clarification.
Also, GOD is always precise with words. The instruction is compact ,it makes sense to prepare first by wash...? i.e the steps are following each other.
However ,the meaning of "Fa" after "aqumtum salat" does not make sense at all.
GOD bless.
Peace -
Falling down is closely related with Loving. Salat is an act to show your gratitude, God surely do not want these mere physical postures, but to express our gratitude towards the goodness He has provided is surely reciprocated however it could be. Ritual salat is surely our own convenient invention and Quran, I think do not detail it as the method is not important. People had their focus on different aspect/signs of God, and masjids got their names from those features, As followers of Ibrahim's we are to focus on masjid al Haram, the sacredness of God. Meaning we do not know of sure yet about Him, we could never in this world. So our focus should be that. East and west is not important.
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Peace Layth.All
For me, the following is clear
(Wa Awhayna ilayhim fehla Al Kheirati wa "Iquami Salat"...etc)
GOD is saying(That is if we believe these are GOD s words) that He inspired/taught...Abraham and his generation how to ...Aquimi Salat...etc.
Now if we take "Fihla Alkheirati" doing good deeds, one can say the same where is the evidence of this? Or "Itaai Zakat"...etc..
So the evidence is in the following
1- GOD words are always the truth. Hence GOD taught Abraham how to "Aquimi Salat".
2- Generation after generation have been copying this ,passed down from family to family.
3- GOD has made sure to keep correcting what got corrupted through messengers /scripture
"Yamhu Allah Ma Yashaau Wa Yuthbbit, Wa Indahu Ummu Al Kitab"
GOD has the "Master Original" of everything . We are tried according to His knowledge.
The most important question as far as I am concerned is "Who do you follow"?
The only source ,according to Qoran is GOD and His inspired words through His scriptures..
Me,other brothers and sisters can only give our views if one follows any of us, GOD is going to ask them
"Akadhabtum Biaayati Wa Lam Tuhitu Biha Ilman Am Mada Kutum Tahmaloon..." i.e Have we made sure and verified/studied...Followed GOD and His messengers ,One authority ,which means "followed GOD Alone" ,His instructions and believed His words.
Having said that, GOD has made the basics for us clear, like good deeds, good morals, -Sirat Almustaqueem- ,this minimum criteria is the most important.
Salat,Zakat,Sawm... are trials for what makes us "Darajat" at GOD s, they are bonuses for those that seek nearness..."See how GOD has made us "darajat" in this life by giving us different wealth and different races/classes...The hearafter is even bigger in Darajat than this life.
My understanding.
GOD bless.
Peace. -
Dear Armom,
I agree with you...Claiming there is a "Salat of Ibrahim" and then just doing what the others and claiming it has been "inherited" is absolutely no evidence to go by.
Having said that, the Salat that can be constructed using the verses of the Quran resembles closely (though not fully) the Salat that the Sunnis/Shia carry out.
- Is done after ablution (56)
- With a clear state of mind (443)
- In a standing position (2239)
- Where the Quran is recited (177
- In a clear audible voice (17110)
- Followed by Kneeling and Prostrating (243, 4102)
- Comprising of 2 units (4102)
- Carried out at 2 times at the edges of the day (11114, 177
- And 1 time at the day of gathering (629, 11114)
- Ending with specific words (17111)
I hope I have been able to help...
Regards,
Layth
Alhamdulillah, I understand that.
But, I'm confused after watching the video of Joseph who says Salat doesn't mean all those things. It means to "follow closely the commandments of Allah" and not a physical ritual.Can you please through some lights on that?
Here is the video I'm talking about-
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=4APNPrfRORQHere he says "sujud" doesn't mean prostration and Ruku' doesn't mean Bowing down.
I firmly believe that the Qur'an should be the Book from where we should take guide, but I also pray 5 times everyday.
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Your translation has some issues
Id qumtum does not mean "prepare for prayer" Please check meaning of root
Faghsilu start with a "fa" which shows time delay. Your translation is missing this fa. So ayat is saying " when you establish salah then faghsilu your faces...." but traditionally washing is done before you start prayer and not after you stand for prayer.
These things have been discussed many times on this forum and brother Waqas has posted his well researched articles on his website http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/
Please read them and reflect. It might give you replies to your questions.
Peace
After reading the article, I notice the very interesting fact that the sentences on the salaa as ritual with timings, etc. is addressed only tot he Prophet.
For the rest I find that what is said ties perfectly with my vision that salaa in fact is the communion, one goes or tries to reach it. Communion of the faithful with God, that is the conscienciousness of the unity of being, that we are not separated from tohers or from the creation even if e have and individuality. We still are part of the One existence. Being awarre and conscious of that is paramount. But it does not mean that it is automatic or even easy. The more conscious we are of what we are and that everything is One, the easier becomes for us to be good according to the values sustained by all prophets, who indeed must have been very aware of the Unity and therefore communed more easily than most of us.
That would be the universal fact , on the other hand like to eat and for anything else, we may seek help to keep us conscious by some ritual, which is where the salaa as ritual would come in. But the ritual is not the thing itself, although it may help to attain it.
Salaam
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I firmly believe that the Qur'an should be the Book from where we should take guide, but I also pray 5 times everyday.
He never said you should stop praying in the video.
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Peace armom.
My simple advice is keep doing what you are doing (praying 5 times a day and studying Qoran) .Only change if you are certain there is evidence from Qoran to change.
The other alternative is to follow others, and you have a lot of differing opinions ,which is a gamble(a trial from your Lord!).
I see nothing wrong in seeking other opinions.it is part of advancing and searching for certainty, but check with the Lord and His scripture before you change where you are now.
I still pray 5 times a day ,I only changed my attitude towards why I am doing it, and I dedicate my prayers to GOD Alone. I have not been convinced otherwise so far .
That is my opinion.
Best of luck to you.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
He never said you should stop praying in the video.
I understand that. But I meant, according to what he says that the prayer ritual is not "Quranic".
Peace armom.
My simple advice is keep doing what you are doing (praying 5 times a day and studying Qoran) .Only change if you are certain there is evidence from Qoran to change.
The other alternative is to follow others, and you have a lot of differing opinions ,which is a gamble(a trial from your Lord!).
I see nothing wrong in seeking other opinions.it is part of advancing and searching for certainty, but check with the Lord and His scripture before you change where you are now.
I still pray 5 times a day ,I only changed my attitude towards why I am doing it, and I dedicate my prayers to GOD Alone. I have not been convinced otherwise so far .
That is my opinion.
Best of luck to you.
GOD bless you.
Peace.Thank you bro for your advice.
I have done the same. I just changed my attitude towards that. Before I didn't know why I was doing it. And Now I know I do this to praise and seek guidance from my God. -
My simple advice is keep doing what you are doing
Agree..
Unless it doesn't works well for you, then change to work what is well for you.
And.. this is important.. let others do what is well for them.....
I understand that. But I meant, according to what he says that the prayer ritual is not "Quranic".
Thank you bro for your advice.
I have done the same. I just changed my attitude towards that. Before I didn't know why I was doing it. And Now I know I do this to praise and seek guidance from my God.Don't trust and follow others... seek it for yourselves...
Just ask and you shall receive..
You (and everything else) has direct link to God..Praying is for you and not you for praying....
There is no 'only one and correct way'... thus you then enforce it upon others..Now regarding "Abraham praying method".. although I hope you understand that it is not important now...
In order to know exactly how did he pray, you have myriad of obstacles to overcome.
First you need to learn his language.. probably Ancient Akkadian mixed with some Phoenician/Canaan dialect.. which nobody living today can comprehend fully..
Next you need to invent a time machine to go back few thousand years to the time where he was still alive. You need to do many trial and error since nobody knows the exact time of his living period, for first attempt you can take around 4000 years ago.
But remember to travel to his location first with today's technology.. dependent on your place of living today.. if you are living in Hawaii today then you will never be able to travel to his location utilizing the technology of Abraham's age. -
Agree..
Unless it doesn't works well for you, then change to work what is well for you.
And.. this is important.. let others do what is well for them.....
Don't trust and follow others... seek it for yourselves...
Just ask and you shall receive..
You (and everything else) has direct link to God..Praying is for you and not you for praying....
There is no 'only one and correct way'... thus you then enforce it upon others..Now regarding "Abraham praying method".. although I hope you understand that it is not important now...
In order to know exactly how did he pray, you have myriad of obstacles to overcome.
First you need to learn his language.. probably Ancient Akkadian mixed with some Phoenician/Canaan dialect.. which nobody living today can comprehend fully..
Next you need to invent a time machine to go back few thousand years to the time where he was still alive. You need to do many trial and error since nobody knows the exact time of his living period, for first attempt you can take around 4000 years ago.
But remember to travel to his location first with today's technology.. dependent on your place of living today.. if you are living in Hawaii today then you will never be able to travel to his location utilizing the technology of Abraham's age.You're right.
But, as you've said "There is no 'only one and correct way'"
Does that mean even Christians, Hindus, Buddist etc, everyone is correct? If no, then why so?
Thank you for your answers.
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You're right.
But, as you've said "There is no 'only one and correct way'"
Does that mean even Christians, Hindus, Buddist etc, everyone is correct? If no, then why so?
Those are just labels... a label for a group of people... a social identity...
Everyone regardless of social identity is both correct and incorrect yet nobody is 100% correct or 100% incorrect, it depends on context...And what do you mean by 'correct' here?
Correct way to pray???It depends on each individuals... feel free to came up with your own that works for you... And how to measure that it works? Well you can evaluate your own character and attitude.. and check whether your prayer makes your character and attitude better and more peaceful... thus you are generally happier...
Yet for those who 'love' to compare and debate that my way / method of praying is the #1, the best of the best, the only correct method. I've covered the it on this thread, feel free to discuss here
Here Is The Most Valid Way To Pray
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606033.0 -
peace Novice, all,
To my knowledge "fa" does not necessarily denote a "time delay".
http//corpus.quran.com/documentation/particlefa.jspBut I can see how one might think that depending on the context of usage. In 56 (based on the content) I do not see how it can mean do the things mentioned after salat is done. Can you find a translation for "salat" in 56 that would make sense if interpreting it like that?
Peace Wakas
I used to do salat sunni way since childhood but always had a feeling that why my Rabb wants me to do this ritual is a certain way and why actions are repeated for certain set numbers of units. Always thought if physical prostration is required then why certain numbers of prostrations in every salat. Why one prostration cannot serve the purpose?
Then I started learning Quranic Arabic and found out that there are words with two meanings - a dictionary meaning and a sharaee meaning. Then I realized that Quran is word of God but shariah is word of scholars. Then internet world introduced me to works of Ghulam Ahmad Parvez, Dr Shabbir Ahmad, Freeminds etc. New horizons opened before me. I read your articles as well as other's on different subjects. I started to develop an understanding about Al-salat.
Presently with the help of resources explored so far and reflecting on ayats about Al-salat with context, I understand Al-salat as fundamentally "The following" of the commands of God.
I am always looking for more and if find convincing evidence I am ready to change my understanding.
Peace
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Those are just labels... a label for a group of people... a social identity...
Everyone regardless of social identity is both correct and incorrect yet nobody is 100% correct or 100% incorrect, it depends on context...And what do you mean by 'correct' here?
Correct way to pray???It depends on each individuals... feel free to came up with your own that works for you... And how to measure that it works? Well you can evaluate your own character and attitude.. and check whether your prayer makes your character and attitude better and more peaceful... thus you are generally happier...
Yet for those who 'love' to compare and debate that my way / method of praying is the #1, the best of the best, the only correct method. I've covered the it on this thread, feel free to discuss here
Here Is The Most Valid Way To Pray
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606033.0But, if the Hindus believe that they get closer to God through their IDOLS, is that right?
Also, when the Shi'as calls on 'Ali, and they also provide evidence for doing so, is that right?
When the christians calls on Jesus, will that be accepted? -
But, if the Hindus believe that they get closer to God through their IDOLS, is that right?
Also, when the Shi'as calls on 'Ali, and they also provide evidence for doing so, is that right?
When the christians calls on Jesus, will that be accepted?I am always surprised when somebody brings the question or, much worse, answers the question of whose prayer are accepted.
My feeling is that there is no way I can know that. God knows, we do not. God may accept whatever He wants and find fault with whatever He wants. He knows us right from top to bottom, He knows why we ask this or that and what our "strengths" or shortcomings are. We are in his Hands, but whatever He does is beyond us. Of course we do know because He says so that He es most Merciful to His creatures. But is it a Mercy to give us whatever we ask? Is everything we ask for good for us?
On the other hand, it depends on the sincerity and humility of the prayer. The prayer may have a wrong mental scheme of godness or divinity, but the heart may be right, so who are we to judge? We do not know, and we do not need to know. We do need to know that we ourselves must be humble and sincere. We are the one who asks and the one who is not all powerful and the one who is allpowerful we ask from his that He gives us an ear. We should approach Him accordingly.
Salaam
The answer to our prayers in fact, it is we who predict it, not by knowing that answer but by asking for it. If, for instance I address Jesus, it may be that God, will appreciate that I am sincere, but
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I am always surprised when somebody brings the question or, much worse, answers the question of whose prayer are accepted.
My feeling is that there is no way I can know that. God knows, we do not. God may accept whatever He wants and find fault with whatever He wants. He knows us right from top to bottom, He knows why we ask this or that and what our "strengths" or shortcomings are. We are in his Hands, but whatever He does is beyond us. Of course we do know because He says so that He es most Merciful to His creatures. But is it a Mercy to give us whatever we ask? Is everything we ask for good for us?
On the other hand, it depends on the sincerity and humility of the prayer. The prayer may have a wrong mental scheme of godness or divinity, but the heart may be right, so who are we to judge? We do not know, and we do not need to know. We do need to know that we ourselves must be humble and sincere. We are the one who asks and the one who is not all powerful and the one who is allpowerful we ask from his that He gives us an ear. We should approach Him accordingly.
Salaam
The answer to our prayers in fact, it is we who predict it, not by knowing that answer but by asking for it. If, for instance I address Jesus, it may be that God, will appreciate that I am sincere, but
Bold........Yes? Don't stop. )
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I am always surprised when somebody brings the question or, much worse, answers the question of whose prayer are accepted.
My feeling is that there is no way I can know that. God knows, we do not. God may accept whatever He wants and find fault with whatever He wants. He knows us right from top to bottom, He knows why we ask this or that and what our "strengths" or shortcomings are. We are in his Hands, but whatever He does is beyond us. Of course we do know because He says so that He es most Merciful to His creatures. But is it a Mercy to give us whatever we ask? Is everything we ask for good for us?
On the other hand, it depends on the sincerity and humility of the prayer. The prayer may have a wrong mental scheme of godness or divinity, but the heart may be right, so who are we to judge? We do not know, and we do not need to know. We do need to know that we ourselves must be humble and sincere. We are the one who asks and the one who is not all powerful and the one who is allpowerful we ask from his that He gives us an ear. We should approach Him accordingly.
Salaam
The answer to our prayers in fact, it is we who predict it, not by knowing that answer but by asking for it. If, for instance I address Jesus, it may be that God, will appreciate that I am sincere, but
Salaam brother,
In that sense, then whatever the Qur'an says falls down, and we no longer obey the Qur'an.
// for instance I address Jesus, it may be that God, will appreciate that I am sincere//
with all due respect, I totally disagree with that statement. If you have proof for that statement please provide.
Allah says in the Qur'an in Surah Maryam 1988-91
They said, "The Most Gracious has begotten a son!"
You have uttered a gross blasphemy.
The heavens are about to shatter, the earth is about to tear asunder, and the mountains are about to crumble.
Because they claim that the Most Gracious has begotten a son.If anyone says Allah has begotten a son and worships him, even the heavens, earth and mountains wants to crumble just because of that blasphemy.
//I am always surprised when somebody brings the question or, much worse, answers the question of whose prayer are accepted.//
I don't judge their hearts, infact it is God who did-
Allah says in the Qur'an, Surah An-Nisa, AYAH 116-
"GOD does not forgive idol worship, and He forgives lesser offenses for whomever He wills. Anyone who idolizes any idol beside GOD has strayed far astray."So I asked brother jafar the questions "is that right" to get a answer from him on what he said "It depends on each individuals... feel free to came up with your own that works for you..."
If it depended on whoever it wills, then there were no need to reveal the Qur'an at all and say that "The ONLY religion accepted in the sight of God, is Islam (Peace acquired by submitted to God)"
So, in all due respect, I disagree with those statements, but if you have any evidence please put forward.
Thank you for your time and efforts. )
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We easily label people, but who knows whats in each heart and what due for them, no one knew. Yes you are right, its wrong as muslims to associate God with anything without knowing.
As far Christians Jews or Hindus or whomsoever,
Quran2/62
Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans - those who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieveThe Sabeans i think they are mostly some polytheists groups who were vegetarians at the time of prophet.
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We easily label people, but who knows whats in each heart and what due for them, no one knew. Yes you are right, its wrong as muslims to associate God with anything without knowing.
As far Christians Jews or Hindus or whomsoever,
Quran2/62
Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans - those who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieveThe Sabeans i think they are mostly some polytheists groups who were vegetarians at the time of prophet.
Peace brother,
You're correct and I agree with you that we shouldn't label anyone.
But if a guy already claims that Jesus is God and the guy worships him, then it's already something which is mentioned in the Qur'an that it's a huge blasphemy.Regarding the verse
"Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans - those who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve"From the verse, it's very clear that these are the people who believe in God and the last day. Today majority of the "Christians" worships Jesus and not God.
We shouldn't label anyone. But regarding the statement // for instance I address Jesus, it may be that God, will appreciate that I am sincere// this says that even if I addressed Jesus, God might appreciate it but God says the opposite in the Qur'an.
...whoever ascribes partners with God, then, surely, God forbade the Garden to him. And his place of shelter will be the fire.
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Salam Armom,
Alhamdulillah, I understand that.
But, I'm confused after watching the video of Joseph who says Salat doesn't mean all those things. It means to "follow closely the commandments of Allah" and not a physical ritual.Can you please through some lights on that?
Here is the video I'm talking about-
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=4APNPrfRORQHere he says "sujud" doesn't mean prostration and Ruku' doesn't mean Bowing down.
I firmly believe that the Qur'an should be the Book from where we should take guide, but I also pray 5 times everyday.
I watched the video and found it to be in-line with what has already been said. Whilst the presenter speaks about the details of Salat not being in the Quran, he then goes on to construct very clear details of what he refers to as "Salat Sessions" (so I guess the details were always there).
Also, the presenter states that the purpose of these "sessions" is for people to hear/learn the Quran at specific times each day.
On sujud and ruku, the word in its regular context means to "prostrate and kneel", however, where some people have a problem is when they read that the "Angels did sujood to Adam" or that the "Sun and moon do sujood" which makes them think it must be yielding mentally rather than moving physically (context in the Quran does affect meaning).
That you continue to pray 5 times is not the approach I would take as it is not aligning yourself with 1736. Better to stop your ritual prayer altogether until you work out what God has actually instructed and to who (remember, the Quran was revealed over a number of years, so no need to rush its implementation).
Regards,
Layth
