Pork is HALAL
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here is the word for "and the flesh"
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=35798
maggoty + and the flesh
flesh noun
the soft part of a fruit or vegetable that is under the skin
https//www.macmillandictionary.com/thesaurus-category/british/parts-of-fruit-and-substances-in-fruitso what is my problem?
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Peace Mahdi.
Still you have not answered my questions.
Your choice.Peace All.
Here is a summary of my discussion;.
1- 6146 were additional items forbidden for Beni Israeel and halal in Qoran. Common forbidden items were not mentioned there because they were mentioned in 6145.2- Brother Mahdi claims "Lahma Al Khinzeer" is maggoty meat. And that is what is forbidden. If things are not forbidden in Qoran they are halal Hence meat of pig is halal.
3- I said to brotherv Mahdi the "mahggoty meat " translation is an error because it leaves the problem of "maggoty fat" -Shahma Al Khinzeer-not forbidden in Qoran, hence halal according to the logic he follows.
Thanks everyone and thank you brother Mahdi for the discussion.
GOD bless.
Peace. -
Do you understand the word "flesh"?
flesh noun
the soft part of a fruit or vegetable that is under the skinhttps//www.macmillandictionary.com/thesaurus-category/british/parts-of-fruit-and-substances-in-fruit
flesh
the soft part of the body of a person or animal covering the bones and organs
The flesh of a fruit or vegetable is the soft, inner part.https//dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/flesh
maggoty + and the flesh
nothing in verse 16115 says it is "meat"...
it only said "the flesh of the maggoty/stinking"
Only He has forbidden to you the dead animal and the blood and the flesh (of) the swinemaggoty/stinking , and what has been dedicated to other (than) Allah . But (if) one (is) forced - without (being) disobedient, and not a transgressor - then indeed, Allah (is) Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
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Peace Mahdi.
The word "Lahm" in Arabic means meat. And The word "Shahm" means fat. YOU are now changing "Lahm" to mean flesh including Shahm-fat- because you see a problem.I clearly see that your translation is not working with your logic. Do you see it?
You have been insisting with others that they have to make sense with evidence/proof.
Here your logic is not making sense. Either your translation needs changing or your logic..Or you keep insisting "Lahm" means everything flesh,bones , shahm and...When clearly in Arabic they have different names like Adhm(bones), Shahm(fat)...
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
dnt need to make things confuse.
LAHAM = meat/flesh that covered with or without bones under skin (birds,animals, aquatic animals)
LAHAM/meat/flesh of hanzeer(pig) is not recommended by Quran.
@ mahdi before u go further tell us what is the arabic of pig ?
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Already covered
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599591.msg234462#msg234462The basic conclusion was IF you ignore the form the word is in and Quranic grammar, then yes, you can interpret it the way you imply.
Quote from tanveermd
According to qur'aanic grammar, in the phrases "lahma khinzeerin" or "lahma alkhinzeeri", "khinzeer" CANNOT be an adjective but can only be a noun. This has been discussed numerous times on this forum in the past. Please use the search feature for the relevant threads.A short explanation is as follows
For "khinzeer" to be an adjective the phrase has to have "AL" before both words or if "AL" is not before both words then both words have to have the same ending of "an" or "un".
For example
"lahmun khinzeerun" or "al-lahma al-khinzeer".
The phrases in al-qur'aan are as follows
"lahma khinzeerin" (6145), and "lahma/lahmu alkhinzeeri" (2173, 53, 16115).
Thus "khinzeer" in those phrases CANNOT be an adjective, and can only mean "pig".
Your reply
It is not conclusive because the rule of the grammar ignores "natural sign", logic, cause and effect, consistency, fallacies etc andA much better response would have been to show several examples in Quran where the grammar follows your take. There are literally thousands of examples of this usage in Quran. It should be easy for you to find several if you speak the truth.
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Prove by accepting all religions and all gods - live as one nation - an upright man - humanity
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No sectarianism/religion
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Anti sectarianism
(does not attaching importance to perceived differences)
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Non-sectarians+ - sectarians (attaching importance to perceived differences = sectarianism = religion) + - sectarians (attaching importance to perceived differences = sectarianism = religion) M-A-THEIST
MATH-EIST|
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vs. Calculation
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vs. Finding out differences+- issue relating to humanity - - > is a human (or being human) vs. attaching importance (just vs. unjust - an upright man) to perceived differences - - - + What is a human ? - - - + (true human beings only concerns with 'humanity'
| |
| + - issue not relating to humanity - - > is a human ? human being?
vs . Sectarianism ie. religionism, racism, nationalism etcnon humanity issue vs. Religion
Ibrahim was not a Jew <- sectarian, a religion. . so as Muhammad, not a Jew or Christian because both are religions
nor a Christian <- sectarian, a religionbut he was (an) upright (man) - (showing a great concern for what is right, fair and truthful way)
a Muslim (a Muslim defined as an 'upright man', just vs unjust. . humanity!)and he was not one of the polytheists <- sectarianism, other religions or denominations
Most surely the nearest of people to Ibrahim
are those
who followed him <- ie. non-sectarian, no religion. . only concerns with humanity, an upright man.
and this Prophet
and those who believeand Allah is the guardian of the believers
(367-6So now eating pork, is okay, brickwall enjoy your sausage and chitterlings. yuck
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Look Brother Mahdi? still I am on this subject with you with a reason? your view of khinzeer=decayed meat is extremely argued by the members and brought evidence? You knew you were stuck ,? Is your Energy ordering you to consume the decayed meat? Are the humans equal to pigs to consume its own excrement/shit ? decayed meat look worse than that? You think even God orders to eat the decayed meat, Will people it still.. if so that?s equal to consume own shit? That?s far from reality?. Even the people who live in total isolation without any clothing, they don?t even consume decayed meat though they consume dead animals? flesh or blood or sacrificed other than god..? if a human who can eat decayed meat as per your picture and as we all know bring a single human who would do it?. Unless it is you..
When you were checkmate the other day with your own decayed meat picture? you turned to a question bring the verse where it is lawful for Jews the Flesh of Swine? and asking this
?So your Allah forgot to make haram pork for the Jews? There, nothing mentioned about pork was made haram for the Jews, in verse 6146.?
No.. Did God made unlawful to consume Pork in Quran? Yes? Then who are jews? They are a group of beautiful community calling themselves as Jews.. Further they are one of those groups God clearly indicating that they were given the books of God for guidance.. That was long back before the revelation of Quran? Does quran valid for Jews as well? Yes.. lets work out that? Remember Jew generally spoke Hebrew and the book of God, Thorah is in their own language?But quran is in Arabic?But definitely Jews spoke Arabic as well as their mother tong.. all part of Semitic ?while other jews spoke Hebrew.. but both the parties would have known Arabic.. as per below verses..
515 ?O People of the Scripture, there has come to you Our Messenger making clear to you much of what you used to conceal of the Scripture and overlooking much. There has come to you from Allah a light and a clear Book.?
Now this quran clearly indicates this very book is also meant for the people of the Scripture as per 515? People of the scripture in my understanding as per context of the verses are Jews and Christians who lived close proximity to where Mohamed lived? regardless of their language(Arabic/Hebrew/Aramaic) God spoke in 515
While they have their books, if still quran claim(i.e. God claim) that there has come a messenger and making clear things and that Messenger took quran to clear things and that same quran says Flesh of swine is prohibited? So what is the issue for jews to accept it, if they are Muslim (surrender)while being Jews as culture/ethnicity simply? Btw? are the previous books supports the claim of having flesh of swine? NO?.Does the quran supports? NO?
If you say decayed meat can be consumed and God ordered then you are promoting disgusting decayed food is allowed by the so called God?s books?.
For example 6145 ? ??. whoever is FORCED neither DESIRING nor TRANSGRESSING then indeed, your Lord is Forgiving and Merciful."
Look closely the above critical WORDS?- FORCED?. Why one should get forced?common sense.. Hunger and no option..etc.
- DESIRING ?.. Why one need to desire the decayed / rotten meat?. Is that something to desire for you Mahdi..? or Flesh of Swine when roasted and hanged.. So only under compulsion and not with Desire?
- TRANSGRESSING ?. Why one need to consume the decayed meat with all trespassing? is the decayed meat that much healthy or powerful attractive to eyes when presented? Or the flesh of swine? So only under compulsion and not with transgression?
Nothing makes sense? but it makes sense to you to call Flesh of Khinzeer = Rotten Meat? You are absolutely not applied your common sense?.Now don?t tell me that this is not applicable for khinzeer..
My previous two threads enough for you to stop claiming again and again as well what is written by all members with logic is enough? but it is your habit? obscure with a veil? btw this is my last post on this subject.. Take it or put it in bin? no grudges?God guides and not me?Pls use your wits and senses if what you looking is guidance.. if what you looking superiority and arrogance and deception... then it is your life.....
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Do you see it?
So do you understand the word "flesh"?
Allah said "flesh" and looks like you assumed it to be meat-pig or MEAT ALONE
Abdel Haleem ... pig's meat
(2013 Edition) ...and the meat of pignothing said it must be meat-pig or MEAT ALONE
Do you understand the word "flesh"?
...
nothing in verse 16115 says it is "meat"...
it only said "the flesh of the maggoty/stinking"
Only He has forbidden to you the dead animal and the blood and the flesh (of) the swinemaggoty/stinking , and what has been dedicated to other (than) Allah . But (if) one (is) forced - without (being) disobedient, and not a transgressor - then indeed, Allah (is) Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
(Word by Word) ...and the flesh (of)
Muhammad Asad ...and the flesh of
M. M. Pickthall ...flesh and
Yusuf Ali (Saudi Rev. 1985) ...and the flesh of
Yusuf Ali (Orig. 193 ...and the flesh of
Shakir ...and flesh of
Wahiduddin Khan ...and the flesh of
Dr. Laleh Bakhtiar ...and flesh of
Safi Kaskas ...and the flesh of
Abdul Hye ...the flesh of
The Study Quran ...and the flesh of
Abdul Majid Daryabadi ...flesh
Ahmed Ali ...and the flesh of
Ali Ünal ...and the flesh of
Ali Quli Qara'i ...the flesh of
Hamid S. Aziz ...and the flesh of
Muhammad Mahmoud Ghali ...and the flesh of
Muhammad Sarwar ...the flesh of
Muhammad Taqi Usmani ...the flesh of
Shabbir Ahmed ...flesh
Syed Vickar Ahamed ...and the flesh of
Umm Muhammad (Sahih International) ...the flesh of
Dr. Munir Munshey ...flesh
Dr. Kamal Omar ...and the flesh of
Talal A. Itani (new translation) ....and the flesh of
Maududi ....and the flesh of
A.L. Bilal Muhammad et al (201 ...the flesh of
Mohammad Shafi ...flesh offlesh
The flesh of a fruit or vegetable is the soft, inner part.
https//dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/flesh
http//i66.tinypic.com/j5b2v6.jpg
http//i64.tinypic.com/dpzuia.jpg
not necessarily meat alone, but also to date and walnut.
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Your reply
It is not conclusive because the rule of the grammar ignores "natural sign", logic, cause and effect, consistency, fallacies etc andA much better response would have been to show several examples in Quran where the grammar follows your take. There are literally thousands of examples of this usage in Quran. It should be easy for you to find several if you speak the truth.
When people go to Court, they can find court's interpreter.
Don't get mistaken, even if he may read the judgment to you.
The court's interpreter is not a Judge.
He cannot deliver justice.
He knows nothing about Truth.
He knows nothing about Jurisprudence.
He knows nothing about Philosophy.
He knows nothing about Scientific Facts.
He knows nothing about so many aspects of Life (Islam).The court's interpreters have no real significance to the trial.
He is a court's interpreter and sitting near to the clerk and
.. wishing that, he, someday can be a Judge.
.. thinking justice is about translation/grammar.
.. believing justice (Islam) is about "interpretation/grammar" alone
.. wasting and busying all his precious life doing nothing but language interpretation/grammar alone.Justice requires more than this.
example..
Now, which is the Quran?
No one disputes Allah´s Signs except those who are kafir. (404)
Our signs in the universe and in their own selves (4153)
So We sent them the flood, and the locust, and the lice, and the frogs, and the blood; all detailed signs; but they turned arrogant, they were a criminal people. (7133)
I swear by your LordLaw that they ("Court's Interpreters" / People of the Book/Grammar) will not be considered "Muslims" until they make you (Natural Person/People of Ibrahim) their JUDGE in the disputes and then they will find nothing in their souls to prevent them from accepting your judgment, and they submit with full submission. (465)
We hear Natural Person/People of Ibrahim/Rasul
We obey Natural Person/People of Ibrahim/Rasul -
it makes sense to you to call Flesh of Khinzeer = Rotten Meat� You are absolutely not applied your common sense�.Now don�t tell me that this is not applicable for khinzeer..
you're so confused.. who say it's not?
(2013 Edition) ...and the meat of pig
nothing said it must be meat-pig or MEAT ALONE
Do you understand the word "flesh"?
...
nothing in verse 16115 says it is "meat"...
it only said "the flesh of the maggoty/stinking"
Only He has forbidden to you the dead animal and the blood and the flesh (of) the swine"SEEN/CONSIDERED" / maggoty/stinking , and what has been dedicated to other (than) Allah . But (if) one (is) forced - without (being) disobedient, and not a transgressor - then indeed, Allah (is) Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
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Peace Mahdi.
I am afraid brother, by insisting " Lahm" is flesh including "Shahm" you are not paying attention to the words in Arabic.
You made a misjudgement when you changed your "maggoty stinking meat" to "maggoty stinking flesh" because you were stuck.There is no need to carry on pushing what is clearly now wrong. People still will have respect if one makes a mistake and corrects.
But it is up to you. You are on your own claiming this now.
On your other threads you called others "DOGMATIC" when they insisted on their way without evidence.
People can see that the argument of "rotten flesh" has itself become rotten and gone. completely.GOD bless you.
Peace. -
I am afraid brother, by insisting " Lahm" is flesh
so you insist it should mean "MEAT ALONE"?
nothing said it must be meat-pig or MEAT ALONE
(Word by Word) ...and the flesh (of)
Muhammad Asad ...and the flesh of
M. M. Pickthall ...flesh and
Yusuf Ali (Saudi Rev. 1985) ...and the flesh of
Yusuf Ali (Orig. 193 ...and the flesh of
Shakir ...and flesh of
Wahiduddin Khan ...and the flesh of
Dr. Laleh Bakhtiar ...and flesh of
Safi Kaskas ...and the flesh of
Abdul Hye ...the flesh of
The Study Quran ...and the flesh of
Abdul Majid Daryabadi ...flesh
Ahmed Ali ...and the flesh of
Ali Ünal ...and the flesh of
Ali Quli Qara'i ...the flesh of
Hamid S. Aziz ...and the flesh of
Muhammad Mahmoud Ghali ...and the flesh of
Muhammad Sarwar ...the flesh of
Muhammad Taqi Usmani ...the flesh of
Shabbir Ahmed ...flesh
Syed Vickar Ahamed ...and the flesh of
Umm Muhammad (Sahih International) ...the flesh of
Dr. Munir Munshey ...flesh
Dr. Kamal Omar ...and the flesh of
Talal A. Itani (new translation) ....and the flesh of
Maududi ....and the flesh of
A.L. Bilal Muhammad et al (201 ...the flesh of
Mohammad Shafi ...flesh offlesh
The flesh of a fruit or vegetable is the soft, inner part.
https//dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/flesh
http//i66.tinypic.com/j5b2v6.jpg
http//i64.tinypic.com/dpzuia.jpg
not necessarily meat alone, but also to date and walnut.
Even the Lane Lexicon said it does not apply to "MEAT ALONE"...
it clearly said "maggoty/stinking" ... "applied" to
(flesh) of a date
(flesh) of a walnutFLESH-meat
(FLESH (first subject matter) + MEAT (second subject matter) ... flesh and meat not the same thing)
inconsistently...
(2013 Edition) ...and the meat of pig
Meat ALONE...
So what is my problem? What is there to correct? !
https//scontent.fkul7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/31218584_2090517307831516_4558380402319206920_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ht=scontent.fkul7-1.fna&oh=6f41b12b91c8d227bf4707416b1b42e5&oe=5CBC7556
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not even once it is said as "MEAT ALONE", or EVEN MEAT ...
you made it on your own and change Allah's words so that you can make pork haram ..
Only He has forbidden to you the dead animals, and blood, and flesh (of) swine maggoty/stinking (خِنزِ) seen/considered (يرَ), and what has been dedicated to other than Allah. So whoever (is) forced by necessity without (being) disobedient and not transgressor, then no sin on him. Indeed, Allah (is) Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (2173)
Are made unlawful on you the dead animals, and the blood, and flesh (of) the swine maggoty/stinking (خِنزِ) seen/considered (يرَ), and what has been dedicated to other than Allah, , and that which is strangled (t and that which is hit fatally, and that which has a fatal fal and that which is gored by hor and that which ate (it) the wild animal except what you slaughtered, and what is sacrificed on the stone altars, and that you seek division by divining arrows - that (is) grave disobedience. This day (have) despaired those who disbelieved of your religion, so (do) not fear them, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and I have completed upon you My Favor and I have approved for you Islam (as) a religion. But whoever (is) forced by hunger (and) not inclining to sin, then indeed, Allah (is) Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (53)
Say, "I (do) not find in what has been revealed to me (anything) forbidden to an eater who eats it except that it be dead or blood poured forth or (the) flesh (of) swine maggoty/stinking (خِنزِ) seen/considered (يرَ) - for indeed, it (is) filth - or (it be) disobedience, dedicated to other than Allah . But whoever (is) compelled not desiring and not transgressing, then indeed, your Lord (is) Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." (6145)
Only He has forbidden to you the dead animal and the blood and the flesh (of) the swine maggoty/stinking (خِنزِ) seen/considered (يرَ), and what has been dedicated to other (than) Allah . But (if) one (is) forced - without (being) disobedient, and not a transgressor - then indeed, Allah (is) Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (16115)
there, all the verses claimed to be about eating "PORK" in the Quran
accordingly, pork is not forbidden in the Quran...
not even once Allah make pork haram ...
it is you who make pork haram
Do not say about what your lying tongues describe ´This is halal and this is haram,´ inventing lies against Allah. (16116)
The FOOD OF THOSE GIVEN THE BOOK (PORK) is halal for you ... anyone who rejects iman (halal foods and pork), his actions will COME TO NOTHING and in the Next World he will be among the LOSERS. (55)
It is shirk to make haram the flesh of swine
Say ´Produce your hadither / jurists/ witnesses to testify that Allah made this (pork) haram.´ If they do testify, DO NOT I'TIQAD WITH THEM and DO NOT FOLLOW the whims and desires of people who deny Our SIGNS, and who do not have iman in the Next World and MAKE OTHERS EQUAL TO THEIR LORD (SHIRK). (6150)
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Already covered
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599591.msg234462#msg234462The basic conclusion was IF you ignore the form the word is in and Quranic grammar, then yes, you can interpret it the way you imply.
Quote from tanveermd
According to qur'aanic grammar, in the phrases "lahma khinzeerin" or "lahma alkhinzeeri", "khinzeer" CANNOT be an adjective but can only be a noun. This has been discussed numerous times on this forum in the past. Please use the search feature for the relevant threads.A short explanation is as follows
For "khinzeer" to be an adjective the phrase has to have "AL" before both words or if "AL" is not before both words then both words have to have the same ending of "an" or "un".
For example
"lahmun khinzeerun" or "al-lahma al-khinzeer".
The phrases in al-qur'aan are as follows
"lahma khinzeerin" (6145), and "lahma/lahmu alkhinzeeri" (2173, 53, 16115).
Thus "khinzeer" in those phrases CANNOT be an adjective, and can only mean "pig".
Readers should note that despite thousands of similar usage in Quran, when asked Mahdi failed to bring any examples that follow his made-up grammar rules.
By the way, it's fine to be a maverick when it comes to grammar but it has to have evidence as per Quran.
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@ mahdi why not you telling the ARABIC of PIG ?
there must be arabic word used for that Animal ? -
The phrases in al-qur'aan are as follows
"lahma khinzeerin" (6145), and "lahma/lahmu alkhinzeeri" (2173, 53, 16115).
read above for verse 6145 2173, 53, and 16115
and please also take note...
there is no dot, diacritical mark etc in the original Quran.
and it is not even in Ajami Arabic.
but it has to have evidence as per Quran.
except Allah defined to have iman in the Quran as follows
But as for those who have clear evidence from their Lord followed up by a witness from Him — and before it the Ordain of Musa came as a model and a mercy — such people have iman in it . Any faction which rejects it is promised the Fire. Be in no doubt about it. It is the Truth from your Lord. But most people have no iman. (1117)
evidence as per Quran means
- Sunnatullah (MATH, Law of Nature)
- Revelation (E, Epistemology, Natural Person)
- Enlightenment (ISM, Axiology, Natural Law)
and ..
example..
Now, which is the Quran?
No one disputes Allah´s Signs except those who are kafir. (404)
Our signs in the universe and in their own selves (4153)
So We sent them the flood, and the locust, and the lice, and the frogs, and the blood; all detailed signs; but they turned arrogant, they were a criminal people. (7133)
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@ mahdi why not you telling the ARABIC of PIG ?
there must be arabic word used for that Animal ?So your argument Allah needs to mention all animals' names in the Quran?
That is your merit?
Irrelevant.
your arabic word for pig have 4 + 1 root words, and one is missing.
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there is no dot, diacritical mark etc in the original Quran.
and it is not even in Ajami Arabic.
No dots does not mean there can be no alif lam for "al" ! Your responses are quite poor.
So your argument Allah needs to mention all animals' names in the Quran?
No, he asked what is Arabic for pig, not what word does Quran use for pig. Note the difference.
Please read carefully, otherwise you are just embarrassing yourself.
