SCIENTIFIC FACTS MENTIONED IN THE QURAN DEFENDED

unknownuser

Greetings idmkhizar,

Let?s see if you can make a conscious and concerted effort to defend this claim of yours?

Moving apart of heavenly bodies results in the formation of a type of red rose as in the case of the Cat Eye Nebula

When the sky disintegrates, and turns rose colored like paint.

Ignoring the laughability factor contained within this Modern Muslim clich?; I will ask you (once again) to bring forth the Modern science behind your assertion that this one single solitary ayah from sura 55 somehow relates to Cosmology.

We all know that Cat's Eye Nebula is a galactic star far away.

Please show us a reference?

Please also demonstrate how it relates to man and Jinn...

It is red because it is going away from us. All stars are going away from us because the universe is expanding and therefore they are red.

So?.now you just admitted that ALL stars are red?not only the ?cat?s eye nebula??.

We cannot see it in our plain eyes; we only can see it through the most powerful telescopes.

Please reference the techniques used to observe it?

I wonder why then we find the description of a red rose DUE TO THE VERY DISINTEGRATION OF THE HEAVEN. This very fact is thus indicated clearly in this verse. If the Quran were his work he would have given other examples to scare people, instead he gives an established scientific fact.

Don?t be afraid to show a little context of the ayah in question?

5533 You race/society (of) the Jinns and human/mankind, if you were able that you penetrate/pierce from the skies'/space's and the earth's/Planet Earth's regions/diameters/chords, so penetrate/pierce, you do not penetrate/pierce except with power/ authority .

5534 So with which (of) your (humans and Jinns) Lord's blessings (do) you twain deny/falsify?

5535 He sends on you a smokeless flame/blazing heat from fire and copper/sparks of molten iron , so you do not become victorious.

5536 So with which (of) your (humans and Jinns) Lord's blessings (do) you twain deny/falsify?

5537 So if the sky/space split/cut open, so it was a red/a rose as/like the paint/painted with oil.

5538 So with which (of) your (humans and Jinns) Lord's blessings (do) you twain deny/falsify?

5539 So that day (end of the world till judgment takes place), a human/mankind and nor a Jinn (will) be asked/questioned about his crime.

5540 So with which (of) your (humans and Jinns) Lord's blessings (do) you twain deny/falsify?

5541 The criminals/sinners (will) be known by their marks/identifications/expressions, so (they) will be taken by the foreheads/forehead's hair (bangs), and the feet.

It is crystal clear that the context of this ayah is fully embedded within Biblical Eschatological content that describes events dealing with man and Jinn (demonic locusts in the Book of Revelation).

Let?s review?

Fa-itha inshaqqati alssamao fakanat wardatan kaalddihani

5537 So if the sky/space split/cut open, so it was a red/a rose as/like the paint/painted with oil.

= ?inshaqqati?

?inshaqqati? definition

Feminine singular. She rent asunder. It comes from the root ?shaqqa?, which means to split, cleave, spread (in the sky), lightning, place under difficulty, impose hard condition. The half of a thing of any kind, or the half of a thing when it is cloven; or split, or divided lengthwise. The counterpart of a person or thing. A certain kind of the jinn, or genii; a species of diabolical beings having the form of the half of a human being.

References
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume four, pp. 1575 - 1579
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur?an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar pp. 295 - 296

= ?wardatan?

?wardatan? definition

Noun. A bright or yellowish bay color; a color between that of a horse that is red inclining to yellow. Bloom; bud; rose; hide. It comes from the root ?warada?, which means to be present, arrive at (any water to drink), go down into, draw near to (a place). A horse, or other thing, of a red color inkling to yellow, beautiful in everything. Bold or daring; an epithet applied to a man. A lion.

References
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume eight, pp. 2935 - 2936
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur?an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar pp. 606 - 607

= ?ddihani?

?ddihani? definition

Noun. A red hide; red leather; and shall become red, or of a rose color, or of a red color inkling to yellow, or like the hide that is of a pure red color; and shall become (red) of various colors by reason of very great terror, like diverse oils; slippery; oil. It is also a plural of ?duhnun?, which means oil. Oil with which one anoints It comes from the root ?dahana/dahina?, which means to anoint, strike (with a stick), moisten, blandish, pleasantly smooth, agreeable and suave, dissemble with, coax, be pliant, grease, dis-simulate.

References
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume three, pp. 926 - 927
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur?an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar pp. 606 - 607

Mentioned in this ayah?

The counterpart of a person? A certain kind of the jinn, or genii; a species of diabolical beings having the form of the half of a human being.
A horse? A bright or yellowish bay color; a color between that of a horse that is red inclining to yellow.
An epithet applied to a man. A lion.
A red hide; red leather; and shall become red, or of a rose color, or of a red color inkling to yellow, or like the hide that is of a pure red color; and shall become (red) of various colors by reason of very great terror.

It is clear that this has everything to do with demons and not with a ?cats eye? nebula?

Just accept the overwhelming evidence against this Muslim polemic?

Thanks?

unknownuser

The Husband Determines The Baby's Gender

He is the One who created the two kinds, male and female
from a tiny drop / minute quantity of semen.

You did a good job of twisting that verse around to match science. But it is scientificuly wrong because it needs BOTH male and female seeds.

Genesis 315 "between her seed and thy seed,"

Genesis 315 revealing that a female as well as a male possesses the seed of life.

This was not believed in Moses' day or even until recently. Ancient writers believed that only the male possesses the seed of life, and that the female was nothing more than a "glorified incubator."

Some early writers even suggested that you could deposit the male semen in the warm mud, and the result would be the same as depositing it in the human female! i.e from a tiny drop / minute quantity of semen.

Which version does science say is right?

The Bible.... Her seed and His seed
The Quran.. Just his seed

When you think that genesis got it right and was written some 2000 years before the quran which got it wrong.

Andya_Primanda

Which version does science say is right?

The Bible.... Her seed and His seed
The Quran.. Just his seed

Although I am not a fan of Bucaillism, aka 'scientific facts read into the Qur'an' let me assure you that what Khizar meant was sex determination, not creating a new zygote (a new human). Of course the Qur'an gets it right on this matter. Human sex determination comes from the male side.

But I would try to be careful to stop at that, and not speculate about the others.

unknownuser

What Khizar meant does not match what the quran says. That verse has been twisted around to try and get it to match science.

Even if it is talking about sex determination (which it isn't) than it is still wrong because the female is XX and the male is XY. You cant get an XX from the Male only. BOTH seeds are needed so the quran is clearly wrong

Nice try but which ever way you look at it, the quran is scientifically wrong

That verse parallels the belief of that time, that the female is just an incubator and the seed comes from the Male only.

jonny_k

Let?s see if you can make a conscious and concerted effort to defend this claim of yours?

Moving apart of heavenly bodies results in the formation of a type of red rose as in the case of the Cat Eye Nebula

When the sky disintegrates, and turns rose colored like paint.

Ignoring the laughability factor contained within this Modern Muslim clich?; I will ask you (once again) to bring forth the Modern science behind your assertion that this one single solitary ayah from sura 55 somehow relates to Cosmology.

Khi- The cate eye nebula is there 4 everyone 2 see. It is there coz the galaxies r moving apart from each other thus forming this red rose like structure or in other terms due 2 the moving apart of the sky/heaven/universe(samaa).

We all know that Cat's Eye Nebula is a galactic star far away.

Please show us a reference?

Please also demonstrate how it relates to man and Jinn...

Khi- This stament was in the OBJECTION part. It is not my statement but tht of an atheist 2 whom ir esponded in my defense. The cate eye nebula shows us a sign of GOD's glory of creation n so also 2 the Jinn, whom we do not yet fully understand.

It is red because it is going away from us. All stars are going away from us because the universe is expanding and therefore they are red.

So?.now you just admitted that ALL stars are red?not only the ?cat?s eye nebula??.

Khi- Well this then fully supports tht verse of dura 55 as tht talks abt the heaven/universe(samaa) when moving apart forms this phenomenom of a red rose which appears as a result of this.

Please reference the techniques used to observe it?

Khi- Again this was the atheist's statement but anyway here it is
http//antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap020324.html

Don?t be afraid to show a little context of the ayah in question?

Khi- The context of tht verse is a sign from GOD.

5533 You race/society (of) the Jinns and human/mankind, if you were able that you penetrate/pierce from the skies'/space's and the earth's/Planet Earth's regions/diameters/chords, so penetrate/pierce, you do not penetrate/pierce except with power/ authority .

5534 So with which (of) your (humans and Jinns) Lord's blessings (do) you twain deny/falsify?

Khi- Again 5533 clearly predicts tht man n jinn, whm we donot comprhend as yet, will have the power 2 go 2 outer space with GOD's Permission which has indeed happened n will most liekely increase in future. N plz translate properly into English. The prepositions in Arabic r not always translated word 2 word as u have done.

5535 He sends on you a smokeless flame/blazing heat from fire and copper/sparks of molten iron , so you do not become victorious.

5536 So with which (of) your (humans and Jinns) Lord's blessings (do) you twain deny/falsify?

Khi- 5535 maybe n indicator of the ateroidal belts which r there in space which future space ships may crash into. Iron did also come from meteors so many of them cotain such elements. I guess u havent heard of these things be4.

5537 So if the sky/space split/cut open, so it was a red/a rose as/like the paint/painted with oil.

5538 So with which (of) your (humans and Jinns) Lord's blessings (do) you twain deny/falsify?

Khi- Yes this is a separate sign which now talks abt wht happens when the heven/space with it's galaxies n stars moves apart.

5539 So that day (end of the world till judgment takes place), a human/mankind and nor a Jinn (will) be asked/questioned about his crime.

5540 So with which (of) your (humans and Jinns) Lord's blessings (do) you twain deny/falsify?

5541 The criminals/sinners (will) be known by their marks/identifications/expressions, so (they) will be taken by the foreheads/forehead's hair (bangs), and the feet.

Khi- As i said 5538 is a GENERAL stament. The red rose nebula is only an example. The phenomena is tht whenever the heaven didintegrates i.e. the stars move apart it appears red rose like 2 the observer due 2 the wavelength phenomena. Coincidence?

It is crystal clear that the context of this ayah is fully embedded within Biblical Eschatological content that describes events dealing with man and Jinn (demonic locusts in the Book of Revelation).

Let?s review?

Fa-itha inshaqqati alssamao fakanat wardatan kaalddihani

5537 So if the sky/space split/cut open, so it was a red/a rose as/like the paint/painted with oil.

= ?inshaqqati?

?inshaqqati? definition

Feminine singular. She rent asunder. It comes from the root ?shaqqa?, which means to split, cleave, spread (in the sky), lightning, place under difficulty, impose hard condition. The half of a thing of any kind, or the half of a thing when it is cloven; or split, or divided lengthwise. The counterpart of a person or thing. A certain kind of the jinn, or genii; a species of diabolical beings having the form of the half of a human being.

Khi- As u can see the primary meaning is 'plit' or 'rent sunder'. All the others r derived meanings. U seem 2 always prefer 2 use derived meanings instead of primary. This is against the rule of Occam's Razor as i mentioned earlier.

References
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume four, pp. 1575 - 1579
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur?an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar pp. 295 - 296

Khi- Also u insist on using Lane's Lexicon which as bro Andya Primanda remarked, is not the only lexicon available, neither do i find it much authoritative since it's written by an Englishman not an Arab.

= ?wardatan?

?wardatan? definition

Noun. A bright or yellowish bay color; a COLOR between that of a horse that is RED inclining to YELLOW. Bloom; bud; rose; hide. It comes from the root ?warada?, which means to be present, arrive at (any water to drink), go down into, draw near to (a place). A horse, or other thing, of a red color inkling to yellow, beautiful in everything. Bold or daring; an epithet applied to a man. A lion.

References
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume eight, pp. 2935 - 2936
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur?an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar pp. 606 - 607

Khi- Now compare these porimary meanings u listed urself with the pic in the following link
http//antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap020324.html

= ?ddihani?

?ddihani? definition

Noun. A red hide; red leather; and shall become red, or of a rose color, or of a red color inkling to yellow, or like the hide that is of a pure red color; and shall become (red) of various colors by reason of very great terror, like diverse oils; slippery; oil. It is also a plural of ?duhnun?, which means oil. Oil with which one anoints It comes from the root ?dahana/dahina?, which means to anoint, strike (with a stick), moisten, blandish, pleasantly smooth, agreeable and suave, dissemble with, coax, be pliant, grease, dis-simulate.

References
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume three, pp. 926 - 927
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur?an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar pp. 606 - 607

Khi- Again compare this 2
http//antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap020324.html

Mentioned in this ayah?

The counterpart of a person? A certain kind of the jinn, or genii; a species of diabolical beings having the form of the half of a human being.

Khi- Not at all. It talks abt a phenomenom of the sky when it disintegrates.

A horse? A bright or yellowish bay color; a color between that of a horse that is red inclining to yellow.

Khi- Not a horse itself but the color edscription given. Compare this 2
http//antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap020324.html

An epithet applied to a man. A lion.

Khi- Wrong!

A red hide; red leather; and shall become red, or of a rose color, or of a red color inkling to yellow, or like the hide that is of a pure red color; and shall become (red) of various colors by reason of very great terror.

Khi- No mention oif any terror but only the color.
http//antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap020324.html

It is clear that this has everything to do with demons and not with a ?cats eye? nebula?

Just accept the overwhelming evidence against this Muslim polemic?

Khi- http//antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap020324.html
GOD Bless!

jonny_k

Peace Albion,

He is the One who created the two kinds, male and female
from a tiny drop / minute quantity of semen.

You did a good job of twisting that verse around to match science. But it is scientificuly wrong because it needs BOTH male and female seeds.

Khi- This verse talks abt sex determination which is entirely determined by the MALE SPERM. The creation of man is stated elsewhere
O people, we created you from the male and female, and rendered you distinct peoples and tribes, that you may recognize one another. The best among you in the sight of GOD is the most righteous. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant.
Thus uve got the wrong understanding. Besides the word 'nutfah' in the Quran means drop of mingled fluid n not 'semen' as some falsely trnalateit. The word 4 semen in Arabic is 'manni'
Subsequently, we reproduced him from a drop of mingled fluid(nutfah), that is placed into a well protected repository.

Genesis 315 "between her seed and thy seed,"

Genesis 315 revealing that a female as well as a male possesses the seed of life.

This was not believed in Moses' day or even until recently. Ancient writers believed that only the male possesses the seed of life, and that the female was nothing more than a "glorified incubator."

Some early writers even suggested that you could deposit the male semen in the warm mud, and the result would be the same as depositing it in the human female! i.e from a tiny drop / minute quantity of semen.

Which version does science say is right?

The Bible.... Her seed and His seed
The Quran.. Just his seed

Khi- Early ppl thght tht it was the woman reponsible 4 the sex the child had n so they blamd her. The Quran clrifies this n so if anyone is 2 be blamed it's the man.u didnt understand the Quran properly.

When you think that genesis got it right and was written some 2000 years before the quran which got it wrong.

Khi- As ive clarified now the Quran isnt wrong but absolutely right.

jonny_k

Peace Albion,

What Khizar meant does not match what the quran says. That verse has been twisted around to try and get it to match science.

Khi- No it hasnt as ive shown in my previous post.

Even if it is talking about sex determination (which it isn't) than it is still wrong because the female is XX and the male is XY. You can?t get an XX from the Male only. BOTH seeds are needed so the quran is clearly wrong

Khi- U shld have spared urself from this false remark 4 the verse in qs clearly talks abt sex determination 4 which ENTIRELY THE MALE SPERM IS RESPONSIBLE. The sex is NOT determined by the female egg cell. Remeber we r talking abt determination here.

Nice try but which ever way you look at it, the quran is scientifically wrong

That verse parallels the belief of that time, that the female is just an incubator and the seed comes from the Male only.

Khi- No it doesnt. Uve got it all wrong. If tht were the case y does GOD say in another verse
O people, we created you from the male and female, and rendered you distinct peoples and tribes, that you may recognize one another. The best among you in the sight of GOD is the most righteous. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant.
This shows u havent studied the Quran as yet. GOD Bless!

unknownuser

Nice try idmkhizar, but not everyone is that foolish. There is nothing in that verse that says it is talking about sex determination.

Females and Males have other physical attributes besides just their gender. They have hair Colour, Eye colour etc . These Attributes come from BOTH the Male and Female parents. From the X chromosome of the female and the Y chromosome of the male.

Are you saying Female and Males only have ONE attribute and that is their gender.

Nice bit of twisting to get that verse to match science but it doesn't work, you're only fooling yourself.

jonny_k

Nice try idmkhizar, but not everyone is that foolish. There is nothing in that verse that says it is talking about sex determination.

Khi- It clearly does as ive shown. Lets read it again
He is the One who created the two kinds, male and female(zakr wal unthaa)...
Thus the context of this verse n the next is the creation of sex n not the whole creation of man which is mentioned in other verses ive pted out.

Females and Males have other physical attributes besides just their gender. They have hair Colour, Eye colour etc . These Attributes come from BOTH the Male and Female parents. From the X chromosome of the female and the Y chromosome of the male.

Khi- The verse indicates the sex DETERMINATION. Other featurees come from the migled drop of both sexes the defined as 'nutfah' in the Quran. Tht is a separate story

Are you saying Female and Males only have ONE attribute and that is their gender.

Khi- I dont know wht ur trying 2 imply here? The gender is wht makes them different. Otherwise they r both humans. If u mean 2 say physical differences besides gender then this statement doesnt make any sense since gender itself is defined by those physical differences. Otherwise y talk abt gender in the 1st place. N the gender is DETERMINED by the male sperm.

Nice bit of twisting to get that verse to match science but it doesn't work, you're only fooling yourself.

Khi- It clearly does. U just dont seem 2 understand it. GOD Bless!

unknownuser

Greetings idmkhizar,

Thanks for your reply?

Khi- The cate eye nebula is there 4 everyone 2 see. It is there coz the galaxies r moving apart from each other thus forming this red rose like structure or in other terms due 2 the moving apart of the sky/heaven/universe(samaa).

You failed once again to give me the science correlation between this one single solitary Koranic ayah and the force-fit into a ?nebula?.

Furthermore, we can see quite clearly that the color ?red? that Muslims want to force-horse into the ?nebula?, is produced artificially through optics.

Here is a ?white? cats eye nebula?

http//store1.yimg.com/I/skyimage_1841_20946455

Here is a ?green? cats eye nebula?

http//hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/astro/astpic/catseye.jpg

Quote

We all know that Cat's Eye Nebula is a galactic star far away.

Please show us a reference?

Please also demonstrate how it relates to man and Jinn...

Khi- This stament was in the OBJECTION part. It is not my statement but tht of an atheist 2 whom ir esponded in my defense. The cate eye nebula shows us a sign of GOD's glory of creation n so also 2 the Jinn, whom we do not yet fully understand.

Please show us the Arabic word for ?nebula??

Quote

It is red because it is going away from us. All stars are going away from us because the universe is expanding and therefore they are red.

So?.now you just admitted that ALL stars are red?not only the ?cat?s eye nebula??.

Khi- Well this then fully supports tht verse of dura 55 as tht talks abt the heaven/universe(samaa) when moving apart forms this phenomenom of a red rose which appears as a result of this.

Please show us the Arabic words for ?moving apart??

Quote

5533 You race/society (of) the Jinns and human/mankind, if you were able that you penetrate/pierce from the skies'/space's and the earth's/Planet Earth's regions/diameters/chords, so penetrate/pierce, you do not penetrate/pierce except with power/ authority .

5534 So with which (of) your (humans and Jinns) Lord's blessings (do) you twain deny/falsify?

Khi- Again 5533 clearly predicts tht man n jinn, whm we donot comprhend as yet, will have the power 2 go 2 outer space with GOD's Permission which has indeed happened n will most liekely increase in future. N plz translate properly into English. The prepositions in Arabic r not always translated word 2 word as u have done.

So?now you have moved on to space travel for the Jinns??

Please show us the Arabic words rendered as ?space travel??

Quote

5535 He sends on you a smokeless flame/blazing heat from fire and copper/sparks of molten iron , so you do not become victorious.

5536 So with which (of) your (humans and Jinns) Lord's blessings (do) you twain deny/falsify?

Khi- 5535 maybe n indicator of the ateroidal belts which r there in space which future space ships may crash into. Iron did also come from meteors so many of them cotain such elements. I guess u havent heard of these things be4.

Pa-lease?.

Again?.where is your Modern science to back up your wild assertions?.?

Just how many times do I have to ask this of you.

So far, all you can produce (after repeated requests) is to show a NASA photo with filter optics in place??lol?.

And from an Atheist.... roll

Quote

5537 So if the sky/space split/cut open, so it was a red/a rose as/like the paint/painted with oil.

5538 So with which (of) your (humans and Jinns) Lord's blessings (do) you twain deny/falsify?

Khi- Yes this is a separate sign which now talks abt wht happens when the heven/space with it's galaxies n stars moves apart.

Please show us the Arabic word for ?stars??.

Quote

5539 So that day (end of the world till judgment takes place), a human/mankind and nor a Jinn (will) be asked/questioned about his crime.

5540 So with which (of) your (humans and Jinns) Lord's blessings (do) you twain deny/falsify?

5541 The criminals/sinners (will) be known by their marks/identifications/expressions, so (they) will be taken by the foreheads/forehead's hair (bangs), and the feet.

Khi- As i said 5538 is a GENERAL stament. The red rose nebula is only an example. The phenomena is tht whenever the heaven didintegrates i.e. the stars move apart it appears red rose like 2 the observer due 2 the wavelength phenomena. Coincidence?

So...now the ?nebula? is an example of the Day of Judgment, as the context of this ayah dictates?.?

Quote

References
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume four, pp. 1575 - 1579
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur?an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar pp. 295 - 296

Khi- Also u insist on using Lane's Lexicon which as bro Andya Primanda remarked, is not the only lexicon available, neither do i find it much authoritative since it's written by an Englishman not an Arab.

Then perhaps you have overlooked the fact that Lane is one of my quotes.

Furthermore, Lanes Lexicon is an integration of scores of the worlds best and authoritative lexicography.

Your ?argument? is extremely weak?

Quote

It is crystal clear that the context of this ayah is fully embedded within Biblical Eschatological content that describes events dealing with man and Jinn (demonic locusts in the Book of Revelation).

Let?s review?

Fa-itha inshaqqati alssamao fakanat wardatan kaalddihani

5537 So if the sky/space split/cut open, so it was a red/a rose as/like the paint/painted with oil.

= ?inshaqqati?

?inshaqqati? definition

Feminine singular. She rent asunder. It comes from the root ?shaqqa?, which means to split, cleave, spread (in the sky), lightning, place under difficulty, impose hard condition. The half of a thing of any kind, or the half of a thing when it is cloven; or split, or divided lengthwise. The counterpart of a person or thing. A certain kind of the jinn, or genii; a species of diabolical beings having the form of the half of a human being.

Khi- As u can see the primary meaning is 'plit' or 'rent sunder'. All the others r derived meanings. U seem 2 always prefer 2 use derived meanings instead of primary. This is against the rule of Occam's Razor as i mentioned earlier.

So?now?immediately after your proclamation that you find Lane?s work ?un-authoritative?, you go right on quoting from it in support of your position.

What kind of logic are you working under, anyway?.?

Furthermore, if you knew anything about Arabic (which you do not), then you would have realized that ?inshaqqati? is derived from the root ?shaqqa?. Not the other way around.

The root ?shaqqa? has the definition of ?the counterpart of a person or thing. A certain kind of the jinn, or genii; a species of diabolical beings having the form of the half of a human being.?

Quote

Mentioned in this ayah?

The counterpart of a person? A certain kind of the jinn, or genii; a species of diabolical beings having the form of the half of a human being.

Khi- Not at all. It talks abt a phenomenom of the sky when it disintegrates.

Show us the Arabic word ?disintegrate??.

Quote

A horse? A bright or yellowish bay color; a color between that of a horse that is red inclining to yellow.

Khi- Not a horse itself but the color edscription given. Compare this 2
http//antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap020324.html

Compare it to the white and green one that I showed you?

Quote

An epithet applied to a man. A lion.

Khi- Wrong!

Refute the classic definitions?if you can?that is?

Quote

A red hide; red leather; and shall become red, or of a rose color, or of a red color inkling to yellow, or like the hide that is of a pure red color; and shall become (red) of various colors by reason of very great terror.

Khi- No mention oif any terror but only the color.
http//antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap020324.html

Please tell us this Arabic word and its location?

It is clear that this Muslim polemic is toast?

unknownuser

The Big Bang Theory and the fact that all living things are made from water

Do the unbelievers not realize that the heaven and the earth used to be one solid mass that we exploded into existence? And from water we made all living things. Would they believe?

More twisting of verses to try and get them to match science. Firstly you have given a modern translation and not a correct or valid one. The verse doesn't translate as "solid mass" OR "exploded".

If you look an earlier translation and a more correct one it doesn't even resemble the big bang

2130 "Have not the disbelievers seen that the heavens and the earth were one piece and We parted them"

Plus its ony refering to the heavens and the earth..... nothing about the sun, the moon and stars etc

jonny_k

You failed once again to give me the science correlation between this one single solitary Koranic ayah and the force-fit into a ?nebula?.

Khi- Oh really, did i?

Furthermore, we can see quite clearly that the color ?red? that Muslims want to force-horse into the ?nebula?, is produced artificially through optics.

Here is a ?white? cats eye nebula?

http//store1.yimg.com/I/skyimage_1841_20946455

Here is a ?green? cats eye nebula?

http//hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/astro/astpic/catseye.jpg

Khi- This is true n nobody denies tht. I dont see how this negates the Quarnic verse in sura 55.
However when stars move very rapidly away from each other like in the case of an initial disintegration the color is tht of the longest wavelength i.e. red. Ofourse if they slow down the color starts changing.

Please show us the Arabic word for ?nebula??

Khi- No need. Quran is writtern in conventional Arabic. Thus ur request is absurd. Nevula is a modern name given. Moreover the Quran refers 2 the general disintegartion of the sky phenomenom.

So?.now you just admitted that ALL stars are red?not only the ?cat?s eye nebula??.

Khi- Ofcourse i do. The Quran doesnt talk abt stars being red but tht the heaven/sky/universe being observed as red while disintegrating.

Please show us the Arabic words for ?moving apart??

Khi- 'Anshaqqat' which means 2 disintegrate/split. When heaven didintegrates it is obvious tht the heavenly bodies r moving apart. I believe anyone can understand this.

So?now you have moved on to space travel for the Jinns??

Please show us the Arabic words rendered as ?space travel??

Khi- U want the Quran 2 use modern wording. tht seems 2 be ur problem. Always rem the Quran explains things in conventional lanuage. GOD is clearly talking abt us n the jinn being able 2 penetrate the heavens n the earth whicvh logically refers 2 the fact tht we cld go 2 the outer limits of the earth n maybe even the heavens with GOD's permission.

Pa-lease?.

Again?.where is your Modern science to back up your wild assertions?.?

Just how many times do I have to ask this of you.

So far, all you can produce (after repeated requests) is to show a NASA photo with filter optics in place??lol?.

Khi- Color is all abt optics. So this accusation of urs is baseless. Obviously GOD is talking abt the human n jinn obeservers. There is a large asteroid belt btw mars n jupiter
http//spaceinfo.jaxa.jp/note/taiyo/e/tai9907_astr_e.html
There r also other such ateroid belts ouside our solar system n it is most diffcult 2 pass through them.

Please show us the Arabic word for ?stars??.

Khi- The aheven conatins the stars n all. As i said the refernce is 2 the genberal disintergartion of the heaven with it's contents.

So...now the ?nebula? is an example of the Day of Judgment, as the context of this ayah dictates?.?

Khi- Yes on the day of judgement again such a red rose like phenomenom will be observed due 2 the wavelength phenomenom. The fact tht the Quran mentions this phenomenom shows tht the author knew the laws of physics.

Then perhaps you have overlooked the fact that Lane is one of my quotes.

Furthermore, Lanes Lexicon is an integration of scores of the worlds best and authoritative lexicography.

Your ?argument? is extremely weak?

Khi- It maybe one of the best ok n even if we take Lane's lexicon meanings ive clearly shown u tht the primary meanings mmatch the scientific facts stated in the verses so far mentioned. U still insist on using derived meanings instead of primary ones 1st.

So?now?immediately after your proclamation that you find Lane?s work ?un-authoritative?, you go right on quoting from it in support of your position.

Khi- It is true tht i doubt Lane's Lexicon 2 some extent but tht doesnt mean i consider it of no worth. Btw i showed this 4 u since u do accept it's authority dont u? So u have no excuse.

Furthermore, if you knew anything about Arabic (which you do not), then you would have realized that ?inshaqqati? is derived from the root ?shaqqa?. Not the other way around.

The root ?shaqqa? has the definition of ?the counterpart of a person or THING. A certain kind of the jinn, or genii; a species of diabolical beings having the form of the half of a human being.?

Khi- Lets see how the word 'shaqqa' is used in the Quran
Then we SPLIT(shaqqa) the soil open.
The Hour has come closer, and the moon has SPLIT.
The heaven will SPLIT(anshaqqat), and fall apart.
The time will come when the sky is SPLIT(anshaqqat).
So u see tht this word has nothing 2 do with mythical genie sense in the Quran. The meaning of the counterpart of a thing or person is also correct n implies splitting or parting as ive shown in the above verses.

Show us the Arabic word ?disintegrate??.

Khi- 'Anshaqqat'

Compare it to the white and green one that I showed you?

Khi- Explyined above.

Refute the classic definitions?if you can?that is?

Khi- As i said those r not primary meanings in which the word is used. Also i showed u how this word has been used in the Quran.

It is clear that this Muslim polemic is toast?

Khi- As weve seen it is perfectly alright. GOD Bless!

jonny_k

Do the unbelievers not realize that the heaven and the earth used to be one solid mass that we exploded into existence? And from water we made all living things. Would they believe?

More twisting of verses to try and get them to match science. Firstly you have given a modern translation and not a correct or valid one. The verse doesn't translate as "solid mass" OR "exploded".

Khi- I know tht the trans is a bit modern. But refer 2 the trans in the 19th century n ull come 2 a similar conclusion. When i read the Quran with Y. Ali's trans 1st i came 2 the same conclusion without any help from anyone n therefore 4 the 1st time believed solidly in the Quran. I was abt 12 yrs old at tht time.

If you look an earlier translation and a more correct one it doesn't even resemble the big bang

2130 "Have not the disbelievers seen that the heavens and the earth were one piece and We parted them"

Plus its ony refering to the heavens and the earth..... nothing about the sun, the moon and stars etc

Khi- U must not forget tht the Quran is written in CONVENTIONAL Arabic language. N we can clearly deduce from tht verse tht the heavens n the eareth have the SAME ORIGIN which they do. Also 'samawaat' contain all the heavenly bodies. No need 2 refer 2 all heavenly bodies separately. If ur not happy with the Quranic style then thts ur prob. These r lame excuses. GOD Bless!

unknownuser

The seven layers of the atmosphere

We created above you seven layers, and we are never unaware of our creation.

675 "And certainly We have adorned this lower heaven with lamps and We have made these missiles for the Shaitans..."

So according to you the stars are in the lower atmosphere!!

Does science support this theory ?

Also is there any scientific proof that the stars are misslies for Satan?

jonny_k

The seven layers of the atmosphere

We created above you seven layers, and we are never unaware of our creation.

675 "And certainly We have adorned this lower heaven with lamps and We have made these missiles for the Shaitans..."

So according to you the stars are in the lower atmosphere!!

Does science support this theory ?

Also is there any scientific proof that the stars are misslies for Satan?

Khi- Salam. 2317 does not say 'samaa' i.e. 'heaven' but 'taraaiq' i.e. 'ways/layers'. Also the word 'samaa' can refer 2 both seven layers of the universe n the earth. So thers nothing wrong. As 4 the lamps they can be stars as well as glowing comets n yes they cld have been made as missiles 4 those who try 2 reach the outer limits of space. Stars r also moving, infact whole galaxies r travelling coz the atsrs in them r travelling. GOD Bless!

unknownuser

Khi- Salam. 2317 does not say 'samaa' i.e. 'heaven' but 'taraaiq' i.e. 'ways/layers'. Also the word 'samaa' can refer 2 both seven layers of the universe n the earth.

Interesting so 'samaa' is the heavens/universe in which the stars are located. So how do you explain 419-4112

419 Say, "You disbelieve in the One who created the earth in two days,

4111 Then He turned to the heavens (samaa), when it was still gas, and said to it, and to the earth "Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly"

4112 Thus, He completed the seven universes (samaa) in two days, and set up the laws for every universe (samaa). And we adorned the lowest universe (samaa) with lamps (stars), and placed guards around it

Now we have a problem here, you have already stated that the stars are in the lower heaven (samaa) and not the lower sky 'taraaiq'

But 4111 says the earth was created Before heaven (samaa) (ie. the universe stars etc).... this isn't what science says and this would also go against the verse you put forward regarding the big bang theory

If 'samaa' could read as 'sky/atmosphere' then 4111 would be scientifically correct and 4112 would be wrong. But you said it can't mean that, it can only mean heavens/Universe (where the stars are)

You need to make up you mind what 'samaa' means. If it means heaven (universe, stars etc) then verse 4111 is scientifically wrong. And if it means heaven (sky, atmosphere etc) then 675 and 4112 is scientificaly wrong because stars are not in the lower sky/atmosphere...

I think you need to go back to the drawing board

jonny_k

Interesting so 'samaa' is the heavens/universe in which the stars are located. So how do you explain 419-4112

But 4111 says the earth was created Before heaven (samaa) (ie. the universe stars etc).... this isn't what science says and this would also go against the verse you put forward regarding the big bang theory

Khi- Salam. The Arabic word 'thumma' means 'then' as well as 'simultaneously/moreover'. It does not always state things order. We notice this from verse 4111
Moreover He turned to the sky, when it was still gas, and said to it, and to the earth, "Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly." They said, "We come willingly."
Thus the creation of the earth in two days cannot be referring 2 the physical creation of the earth if we interpret 'thumma' 2 mean 'then'. But since it can mean 'simultaneously/moreover' also then everything is fine. I prefer 2 translate 'thumma' as 'moreover' in th verse as Y. Ali has done.

If 'samaa' could read as 'sky/atmosphere' then 4111 would be scientifically correct and 4112 would be wrong. But you said it can't mean that, it can only mean heavens/Universe (where the stars are)

Khi- I said tht it can mean BOTH depending on the context or situation in which it is used. N if 'thumma' is translated 'moreover' as Y. Ali did which it can mean the whole prob is solved.

You need to make up you mind what 'samaa' means. If it means heaven (universe, stars etc) then verse 4111 is scientifically wrong. And if it means heaven (sky, atmosphere etc) then 675 and 4112 is scientificaly wrong because stars are not in the lower sky/atmosphere...

Khi- As i said it can mean both depending on the situation in which it is used. However i prefer the understanding of 'samaa' as heaven n 'thumma' in 4111 as 'moreover'. GOD Bless!

vincentia

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vincentia

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vincentia

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