SCIENTIFIC FACTS MENTIONED IN THE QURAN DEFENDED

unknownuser

It does not always state things order. We notice this from verse 4111

Moreover He turned to the sky, when it was still gas, and said to it, and to the earth, "Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly. They said, 'we come willingly.' "

The word "Turned" clearly implies that it is after the creation of the earth has already started that God THEN (themma) TURNED to the heavens.

If you TURN to do something then it means you are TURNING away from something you have ALREADY started doing. So the use of the word "moreover" is out of context, and is a desperate attempt on your part to try and twist the meaning of the verse to match science.

Science tells us that the Earth is young compared to many other heavenly bodies. Even our own Sun is much younger compared to other stars that have already gone supernova and are now white dwarfs.

So to say that the Earth was created at the same time as the rest of the Universe is another hole in you argument.

Also in that verse we have another problem and that is the word "Gas" (Dukhan). This is a wrong translation and again another twisting of Arabic words to try and get it to match science. It should read "Smoke" NOT "Gas" and when it is translated as "Smoke" it is clearly scientifically wrong. It is only the more modern translators who have seen the problems with this verse in light of science that have twisted and stretched the Arabic language to try and get it to match science.

The Arabic word 'Dukhan' means smoke not Gas. The Arabic word 'ghaz' means Gas and it is mot used in the verse. Any translator who translates 'Dukhan' as Gas is just twisting the Arabic language to try at get it to match.

Thirdly we have another problem with that verse and that is 'and said to it (heaven which is still SMOKE), and to the earth'. This implies that the Earth is already formed and is now being joined with the heavens which are still Smoke. Everyone knows that the earth is part of the Universe. In fact the Earth is a much younger part of the Universe compared to many other celestial bodies. This verse is implying that the Earth is separate from the heavens (Universe), but in fact the Earth is part of the Universe.

Fourthly there is another problem with 4111 with the word willingly (ta'e'een). The Heaven and the Earth are feminine nouns and the verb said in They said, we come willingly is also feminine. But the Arabic word used for willingly (ta'e'een) is masculine which is grammatically wrong. The Arabic word for the adjective willingly should match the gender of the nouns and the verb, the the word should be ta'e'atain

I said that it can mean BOTH depending on the context or situation in which it is used.

You mean depending on which way you want to twist the verse to try and get it to match science

idmkhizar2

Peace Albion,

Moreover He turned to the sky, when it was still gas, and said to it, and to the earth, "Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly. They said, 'we come willingly.' "

The word "Turned" clearly implies that it is after the creation of the earth has already started that God THEN (themma) TURNED to the heavens.

If you TURN to do something then it means you are TURNING away from something you have ALREADY started doing. So the use of the word "moreover" is out of context, and is a desperate attempt on your part to try and twist the meaning of the verse to match science.

Khi- This is not correct. The turning 2 heaven does not necessary imply tht GOD created the earth be4 tht according 2 Quran but tht he had caused the big bang be4 tht as stated in 2130. As ive said be4 the Quran does not state an order in 419-12. 4 the full info on this plz visit
http//www.answering-christianity.com/quran/frank_earth_heaven.htm
This article answers everything regarding this. Actually these arguments of urs have been refuted many times over n yet i see Christians bringing them up again n again.

Science tells us that the Earth is young compared to many other heavenly bodies. Even our own Sun is much younger compared to other stars that have already gone supernova and are now white dwarfs.

So to say that the Earth was created at the same time as the rest of the Universe is another hole in you argument.

Khi- Plz visit
http//www.answering-christianity.com/quran/frank_earth_heaven.htm

Also in that verse we have another problem and that is the word "Gas" (Dukhan). This is a wrong translation and again another twisting of Arabic words to try and get it to match science. It should read "Smoke" NOT "Gas" and when it is translated as "Smoke" it is clearly scientifically wrong. It is only the more modern translators who have seen the problems with this verse in light of science that have twisted and stretched the Arabic language to try and get it to match science.

The Arabic word 'Dukhan' means smoke not Gas. The Arabic word 'ghaz' means Gas and it is mot used in the verse. Any translator who translates 'Dukhan' as Gas is just twisting the Arabic language to try at get it to match.

Khi- Absolutely correct n the usage of simply 'gas' wld have been incorrect 4 it was hot plasma with particles violently moving in random directions which is prefectly described as 'smoke' in conventional language. Ever heard of the remnants of SMOKE be4?
On the 8th of November 1989, NASA launched its Cosmic Background Explorer (COBE) satellite in an orbit that is 600 Km away from the earth and the effect of clouds and pollutants in the lower layers of the earth's atmosphere. 10 light years away from the earth, COBE sent millions of photos and information about the remnants of the smoke resulted from the Big Bang. It was a phase of a dark smoke that has prevailed in the Universe before the heavens and the earth were created.

Thirdly we have another problem with that verse and that is 'and said to it (heaven which is still SMOKE), and to the earth'. This implies that the Earth is already formed and is now being joined with the heavens which are still Smoke. Everyone knows that the earth is part of the Universe. In fact the Earth is a much younger part of the Universe compared to many other celestial bodies. This verse is implying that the Earth is separate from the heavens (Universe), but in fact the Earth is part of the Universe.

Khi- http//www.answering-christianity.com/quran/frank_earth_heaven.htm

Fourthly there is another problem with 4111 with the word ?willingly? (ta'e'een). The Heaven and the Earth are feminine nouns and the verb ?said? in ? They said, we come willingly? is also feminine. But the Arabic word used for ?willingly? (ta'e'een) is masculine which is grammatically wrong. The Arabic word for the adjective ?willingly? should match the gender of the nouns and the verb, the the word should be ?ta'e'atain?

Khi- This nonsense grammatical error n others have all been rebbuted at ansewring-christianity.com.
If one looks closely at the ayah, << qaalataa >> is indeed in the dual, third person "they said"
the remainder << atayna Taa'i2een >> is NOT NECESSARILY "DUAL." In fact, in Arabic there is NO FIRST PERSON DUAL. The word for "we" is "naHnu" and is used in the case of two persons or more than two persons. Likewise, there is no first person dual verb form. "atayna" means "we came" whether it is 2 or 2000. Thus, if we assume it is actually plural, and refers to both masculine and feminine subjects, then the proper form for the predicate is "Taa'i2een" as written in the Qur'an. Abu Jafar notes that the linguist Kasaa'i has suggested a possible explanation for the use of "Taa'i2een" (one of three possibilities)
the meaning being that "we (and everything we comprise) have come willingly" and the masculine form is used since it refers to both male and female. In fact, the preceding verse clearly indicates that GOD had already created other things on the earth
<< He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it and bestowed blessings on the earth and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion in four Days in accordance with (the needs of) those who seek (sustenance)... >> (Y. Ali)
Thus, "WE" could easily be all-inclusive, including mountains and everything that grows from the earth, thus "Taa'i2een," as then it is plural referring to both masc. and fem. nouns.

You mean depending on which way you want to twist the verse to try and get it to match science

Khi- As u can see these r all outdated arguements which have been rebutted over n over again. Plz come up with something more original. GOD Bless!

unknownuser

Greetings idmkhizar,

Thanks for your reply?

Quote

Furthermore, if you knew anything about Arabic (which you do not), then you would have realized that ?inshaqqati? is derived from the root ?shaqqa?. Not the other way around.

The root ?shaqqa? has the definition of ?the counterpart of a person or THING. A certain kind of the jinn, or genii; a species of diabolical beings having the form of the half of a human being.?

Khi- Lets see how the word 'shaqqa' is used in the Quran
Then we SPLIT(shaqqa) the soil open.
The Hour has come closer, and the moon has SPLIT.
The heaven will SPLIT(anshaqqat), and fall apart.
The time will come when the sky is SPLIT(anshaqqat).
So u see tht this word has nothing 2 do with mythical genie sense in the Quran. The meaning of the counterpart of a thing or person is also correct n implies splitting or parting as ive shown in the above verses.

The four examples that you just gave all support my position ? as they all refer to Biblical Eschatology.

In fact, why stop with just these four examples??

Let?s look at all the Koranic locations

Occurrences of ?inshaqqati? in the Koran 2
Locations 55.37, 84.1

Occurrences of the root ?shaqqa? and its 16 derivatives in the Koran 39
Locations 2.74, 2.137, 2.176, 4.35, 4.115, 8.13(2x), 9.42, 11.89, 11.105, 11.106, 13.34, 16.7, 16.27, 19.4, 19.32, 19.48, 19.90, 20.2, 20.117, 22.53, 23.106, 25.25, 28.27, 38.2, 41.52, 47.32, 50.44, 54.1, 55.37, 59.4(2x), 69.16, 80.26(2x), 84.1, 87.11, 91.12, 92.15

Go ahead?.check them all out?and let me know if discover one that is not tied to Biblical scriptures?

I would also like to comment on your understanding (or lack thereof) regarding the Koranic creation sequence described in sura 41?

Khi- Salam. The Arabic word 'thumma' means 'then' as well as 'simultaneously/moreover'. It does not always state things order. We notice this from verse 4111

Moreover He turned to the sky, when it was still gas, and said to it, and to the earth, "Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly." They said, "We come willingly."

Thus the creation of the earth in two days cannot be referring 2 the physical creation of the earth if we interpret 'thumma' 2 mean 'then'. But since it can mean 'simultaneously/moreover' also then everything is fine. I prefer 2 translate 'thumma' as 'moreover' in th verse as Y. Ali has done.

So?now Yusuf Ali is the flavor of the week??

Let?s review the word ?thumma??

= ?thumma?

?thumma? definition

Then; i.e. afterward, or afterwards, a particle, or conjunction denoting order and delay; mostly used as a conjunction indicating a sequence in line or order to be rendered as then; thereafter; thereupon. It comes from the root ?thamma?, which means he repaired it, or put it into a good, sound, or right, state; to pick up, collect, repair, heap up (things in a place). He collected it together; namely a thing.

References
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume one, pp. 350 - 352
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur?an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar p. 84

Hence, as you can verify for yourself in ANY classic Lexicon, the PRIMARY usage of ?thumma? is in the demarcation of an ordered sequence.

Period.

We know how much you like the ?Primary meanings? of the Arabic words of your book of faith.

Furthermore?.we cannot forget to mention the other sequence markers of the ayahs under discussion?

= ?fa?

?fa? definition

A prefixed conjunction particle having conjunctive power. It implies a close connection between the sentences before and after it. This connection may be either definite cause and effect or a natural sequence of events signifying; And, Then; For; Therefore; So that; So; In order that; In that case; In consequence; Afterwards; At least; Lest; Because; For fear of; Truly, After, By; But; Thus; Consequently; In order to. It is also expletive, and a prefix to other particles.

References
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume six, pp. 2321 - 2323
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur?an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar, p. 414

Thus, the evidence for a Koranic sequence is now overwhelming with the addition of the sequence marker ?fa??.which has as its Primary meaning a definite ?cause and effect? or ?a natural sequence of events??!

The evidence is overwhelmingly in support of a sequence of events.

You should file 13 Yusuf?.

Khi- This is not correct. The turning 2 heaven does not necessary imply tht GOD created the earth be4 tht according 2 Quran but tht he had caused the big bang be4 tht as stated in 2130. As ive said be4 the Quran does not state an order in 419-12. 4 the full info on this plz visit
http//www.answering-christianity.com/quran/frank_earth_heaven.htm
This article answers everything regarding this. Actually these arguments of urs have been refuted many times over n yet i see Christians bringing them up again n again.

Unfortunately, ?frank?s? argument is a complete and utter dud.

He, like you, conveniently forgets to mention (or downplays) the obvious sequence markers contained within the Koranic creation sequence?

?Frank? even goes so far as to group the periods (1 ? 6) in sura 41?.now, why would he group them if he felt that there was not an intended order in the first place??

This places the Muslim in quite a predicament?.would you not agree??

Thanks?

jonny_k

The four examples that you just gave all support my position ? as they all refer to Biblical Eschatology.

In fact, why stop with just these four examples??

Let?s look at all the Koranic locations

Occurrences of ?inshaqqati? in the Koran 2
Locations 55.37, 84.1

Occurrences of the root ?shaqqa? and its 16 derivatives in the Koran 39
Locations 2.74, 2.137, 2.176, 4.35, 4.115, 8.13(2x), 9.42, 11.89, 11.105, 11.106, 13.34, 16.7, 16.27, 19.4, 19.32, 19.48, 19.90, 20.2, 20.117, 22.53, 23.106, 25.25, 28.27, 38.2, 41.52, 47.32, 50.44, 54.1, 55.37, 59.4(2x), 69.16, 80.26(2x), 84.1, 87.11, 91.12, 92.15

Go ahead?.check them all out?and let me know if discover one that is not tied to Biblical scriptures?

Khi- Salam. Y do i have 2 show tht any or all of the incidences contasining the word 'shaqqa' in the Quran r similar 2 those of Biblical ones? All i wanted 2 show is the meaning of the word as implied by the Quran n ive done tht. I dont know y u inists with coming up with the Bible everytime.

I would also like to comment on your understanding (or lack thereof) regarding the Koranic creation sequence described in sura 41?

So?now Yusuf Ali is the flavor of the week??

Let?s review the word ?thumma??

= ?thumma?

?thumma? definition

Then; i.e. afterward, or afterwards, a particle, or conjunction denoting order and delay; mostly used as a conjunction indicating a sequence in line or order to be rendered as then; thereafter; thereupon. It comes from the root ?thamma?, which means he repaired it, or put it into a good, sound, or right, state; to pick up, collect, repair, heap up (things in a place). He collected it together; namely a thing.

References
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume one, pp. 350 - 352
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur?an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar p. 84

Hence, as you can verify for yourself in ANY classic Lexicon, the PRIMARY usage of ?thumma? is in the demarcation of an ordered sequence.

Period.

We know how much you like the ?Primary meanings? of the Arabic words of your book of faith.

Khi- Plz visit http//www.answering-christianity.com/quran/frank_earth_heaven.htm
All the answers regarding 419-12 r clarified there.

Furthermore?.we cannot forget to mention the other sequence markers of the ayahs under discussion?

= ?fa?

?fa? definition

A prefixed conjunction particle having conjunctive power. It implies a close connection between the sentences before and after it. This connection may be either definite cause and effect or a natural sequence of events signifying; And, Then; For; Therefore; So that; So; In order that; In that case; In consequence; Afterwards; At least; Lest; Because; For fear of; Truly, After, By; But; Thus; Consequently; In order to. It is also expletive, and a prefix to other particles.

References
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume six, pp. 2321 - 2323
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur?an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar, p. 414

Thus, the evidence for a Koranic sequence is now overwhelming with the addition of the sequence marker ?fa??.which has as its Primary meaning a definite ?cause and effect? or ?a natural sequence of events??!

The evidence is overwhelmingly in support of a sequence of events.

You should file 13 Yusuf?.

Khi- http//www.answering-christianity.com/quran/frank_earth_heaven.htm

Unfortunately, ?frank?s? argument is a complete and utter dud.

He, like you, conveniently forgets to mention (or downplays) the obvious sequence markers contained within the Koranic creation sequence?

?Frank? even goes so far as to group the periods (1 ? 6) in sura 41?.now, why would he group them if he felt that there was not an intended order in the first place??

This places the Muslim in quite a predicament?.would you not agree??

Thanks?

Khi- 4 the order plz refer 2 verse 7927-30. Verse 30 uses 'ba'ada dhalik' which clearly means afterwards. Therefore 419-12 cannot mean wht u want 2 say. Let me try 2 explin it again another way
The verse of Fussilat(41)11 says that God commanded the heavens and the earth to submit to Him. The command to "come" unto God in this verse is equivalent to such verses as

Al-Saffat(37)83-84 "And verily, among those who followed his (Noah's) path was Abraham. When he came to his Lord with a pure heart. When he said to his father ..."

So how exactly did Abraham "come" to his Lord? Did he physically come to Him? This is equivalent to many similar verses in the Bible. For example

Luke 174 "And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him."

What is meant here by "turning to God"? Does the man turn "left" or does he turn "right"? Which direction should he face from now on? Should he spend the rest of his days facing North or South? Is this what the verse means?

Similarly, in Ezekiel 146 we read "Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Repent, and turn from your idols; and turn away your faces from all your abominations."

So which direction should mankind "face" in order to have "turned away their faces" from their "abominations"? In which direction do their "abominations" reside? Are they in the South and we should face North?

(Also read Jeremiah 321-22, etc.)

God created the heavens and the earth and then commanded them while they were still in a simple gaseous form ("when it was smoke") to submit to His will either voluntarily or involuntarily so that He would fashion them as He wished. How did He command them and how did they answer? That is beyond our understanding. Indeed we are told in the Qur'an in Al-Isra(17)44 "The seven heavens and the earth and all that is therein glorify Him, and there is not a thing but glorifies His praise, yet you understand not their glorification. Truly, He is Ever-Forbearing, Oft-Forgiving"

Now, after the heavens and the earth were first created as a "smoke," and after He commanded them to submit to his will, and after they submitted to His will, now we are told that God extracted from that smoke the features of the heavens and the earth which we know today. Actually, this is indeed one of the scientific miracles of the Qur'an, as it describes issues which are known by astronomers today as being scientific fact. Today, through the development of twentieth century radio telescopes, mankind has actually photographed this process in action and recognize that planets are created from the condensation of spiraling celestial "mists."

It is further interesting to observe the precise term use by God in his description of this phenomenon. He did not say "mist" as current scientific terminology would have it, and which implies a spray of cool water, rather He described it as a "smoke," which implies a hot gas with airborne particles. This is exactly what scientists have been photographing for a couple of decades now, specifically, a tremendously hot cauldron of spiraling celestial gasses and other suspended matter which condense at the center of the spiral into a molten core which then cools down to form a star, and from them, planets. This planet, after many centuries of cooling down may then develop an atmosphere and other detailed features such as streams and valleys, etc.
There is absolutely no error in the Quran except in the minds of those who do not want 2 understand it or deliberately deny It. But then again as far as im concerned i focus more on the mathematical miracle of the Quran based on code-19. Bro Bahman is still waiting 4 the challenge. GOD Bless!

unknownuser

Greetings idmkhizar,

Thanks for your comments?

Quote

The four examples that you just gave all support my position ? as they all refer to Biblical Eschatology.

In fact, why stop with just these four examples??

Let?s look at all the Koranic locations

Occurrences of ?inshaqqati? in the Koran 2
Locations 55.37, 84.1

Occurrences of the root ?shaqqa? and its 16 derivatives in the Koran 39
Locations 2.74, 2.137, 2.176, 4.35, 4.115, 8.13(2x), 9.42, 11.89, 11.105, 11.106, 13.34, 16.7, 16.27, 19.4, 19.32, 19.48, 19.90, 20.2, 20.117, 22.53, 23.106, 25.25, 28.27, 38.2, 41.52, 47.32, 50.44, 54.1, 55.37, 59.4(2x), 69.16, 80.26(2x), 84.1, 87.11, 91.12, 92.15

Go ahead?.check them all out?and let me know if discover one that is not tied to Biblical scriptures?

Khi- Salam. Y do i have 2 show tht any or all of the incidences contasining the word 'shaqqa' in the Quran r similar 2 those of Biblical ones? All i wanted 2 show is the meaning of the word as implied by the Quran n ive done tht. I dont know y u inists with coming up with the Bible everytime.

If you want a complete understanding of your book of faith, then you owe it to yourself to reference its source material ? the Holy Bible?

Hence, if you want to shower the Koran with praises for it?s ?scientific prowess? , then you must also give kudos to the Biblical material that makes-up the Koran in the first place?

Quote

I would also like to comment on your understanding (or lack thereof) regarding the Koranic creation sequence described in sura 41?

So?now Yusuf Ali is the flavor of the week??

Let?s review the word ?thumma??

= ?thumma?

?thumma? definition

Then; i.e. afterward, or afterwards, a particle, or conjunction denoting order and delay; mostly used as a conjunction indicating a sequence in line or order to be rendered as then; thereafter; thereupon. It comes from the root ?thamma?, which means he repaired it, or put it into a good, sound, or right, state; to pick up, collect, repair, heap up (things in a place). He collected it together; namely a thing.

References
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume one, pp. 350 - 352
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur?an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar p. 84

Hence, as you can verify for yourself in ANY classic Lexicon, the PRIMARY usage of ?thumma? is in the demarcation of an ordered sequence.

Period.

We know how much you like the ?Primary meanings? of the Arabic words of your book of faith.

Khi- Plz visit http//www.answering-christianity.com/quran/frank_earth_heaven.htm
All the answers regarding 419-12 r clarified there.

Been there done that.

Like I already told you.

What?s the matter?.the PRIMARY meanings a little too direct for you to handle?

Guess what?.Frank falls completely flat in his ?argument??

Why don?t you cover for his lack of understanding instead of defaulting to the nearest ?googled? linkage to bail you out?..time and again?

Quote

Furthermore?.we cannot forget to mention the other sequence markers of the ayahs under discussion?

= ?fa?

?fa? definition

A prefixed conjunction particle having conjunctive power. It implies a close connection between the sentences before and after it. This connection may be either definite cause and effect or a natural sequence of events signifying; And, Then; For; Therefore; So that; So; In order that; In that case; In consequence; Afterwards; At least; Lest; Because; For fear of; Truly, After, By; But; Thus; Consequently; In order to. It is also expletive, and a prefix to other particles.

References
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume six, pp. 2321 - 2323
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur?an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar, p. 414

Thus, the evidence for a Koranic sequence is now overwhelming with the addition of the sequence marker ?fa??.which has as its Primary meaning a definite ?cause and effect? or ?a natural sequence of events??!

The evidence is overwhelmingly in support of a sequence of events.

You should file 13 Yusuf?.

Khi- http//www.answering-christianity.com/quran/frank_earth_heaven.htm

Frank, frank, frank?.

Please show us where Frank mentions the sequence marker ?fa??.

Lots-a-luck? lol

Quote

Unfortunately, ?frank?s? argument is a complete and utter dud.

He, like you, conveniently forgets to mention (or downplays) the obvious sequence markers contained within the Koranic creation sequence?

?Frank? even goes so far as to group the periods (1 ? 6) in sura 41?.now, why would he group them if he felt that there was not an intended order in the first place??

This places the Muslim in quite a predicament?.would you not agree??

Thanks?

Khi- 4 the order plz refer 2 verse 7927-30. Verse 30 uses 'ba'ada dhalik' which clearly means afterwards. Therefore 419-12 cannot mean wht u want 2 say.

Let?s look?

Are you (a) stronger creation or the sky/space (which) He built/constructed it? (7927)
Aantum ashaddu khalqan ami alssamao banaha

He raised its height/thickness, so He straightened it. (7928 )
RafaAAa samkaha fasawwaha

And He darkened its night, and He brought out its day break. (7929)
Waaghtasha laylaha waakhraja duhaha

And the earth/Planet Earth after that He blew and stretched/spread it. (7930)
Waal-arda baAAda thalika dahaha

He brought out from it its water and its pasture. (7931)
Akhraja minha maaha wamarAAaha

And the mountains , He anchored it/fixed it firmly. (7932)
Waaljibala arsaha

Enjoyment for you and for your camels/livestock. (7933)
MataAAan lakum wali-anAAamikum

And?if we were to continue with ayah 7934, we would be getting right back into Biblical Eschatological scripture?so it is best that you stopped when you did?

Summary

Are you (a) stronger creation or the sky/space (which) He built/constructed it?
He raised its height/thickness,
SO, He straightened it.
AND, He darkened its night,
AND, He brought out its day break.
AND, the earth/Planet Earth after that He blew
AND, stretched/spread it.
8 ) He brought out from it its water
AND, its pasture.
AND, the mountains , He anchored it/fixed it firmly.
Enjoyment for you and for your camels/livestock.

Conclusion

?khalqan? is mentioned regarding the sky/space. As, previously detailed, means fashioning from pre-existing material
The sky/space has a certain height/thickness ? thus indicating a fixation of the heavens?this would be in direct conflict with your Koranic expanding heavens concept
?fa? SO, the sky/space is straightened!
Night and day is mentioned BEFORE the earth was formed!
Blowing on the earth stretches it out
Only then is water mentioned.

Not very scientific.

Let me try 2 explin it again another way

The verse of Fussilat(41)11 says that God commanded the heavens and the earth to submit to Him. The command to "come" unto God in this verse is equivalent to such verses as

Al-Saffat(37)83-84 "And verily, among those who followed his (Noah's) path was Abraham. When he came to his Lord with a pure heart. When he said to his father ..."

So how exactly did Abraham "come" to his Lord? Did he physically come to Him? This is equivalent to many similar verses in the Bible. For example

Luke 174 "And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him."

What is meant here by "turning to God"? Does the man turn "left" or does he turn "right"? Which direction should he face from now on? Should he spend the rest of his days facing North or South? Is this what the verse means?

Similarly, in Ezekiel 146 we read "Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Repent, and turn from your idols; and turn away your faces from all your abominations."

So which direction should mankind "face" in order to have "turned away their faces" from their "abominations"? In which direction do their "abominations" reside? Are they in the South and we should face North?

(Also read Jeremiah 321-22, etc.)

God created the heavens and the earth and then commanded them while they were still in a simple gaseous form ("when it was smoke") to submit to His will either voluntarily or involuntarily so that He would fashion them as He wished. How did He command them and how did they answer? That is beyond our understanding. Indeed we are told in the Qur'an in Al-Isra(17)44 "The seven heavens and the earth and all that is therein glorify Him, and there is not a thing but glorifies His praise, yet you understand not their glorification. Truly, He is Ever-Forbearing, Oft-Forgiving"

Again?..you turned your head and coughed.

Not only did you fail to reference ?thumma?, but ?fa? as well?

What are you afraid of exactly?.?

Now, after the heavens and the earth were first created as a "smoke," and after He commanded them to submit to his will, and after they submitted to His will, now we are told that God extracted from that smoke the features of the heavens and the earth which we know today. Actually, this is indeed one of the scientific miracles of the Qur'an, as it describes issues which are known by astronomers today as being scientific fact. Today, through the development of twentieth century radio telescopes, mankind has actually photographed this process in action and recognize that planets are created from the condensation of spiraling celestial "mists."

Wait?.? God extracted from that smoke the features of the heavens and the earth which we know today.?

Please inform us what ?features? of the earth were ?extracted? from the smoke that comes AFTER mankind and his food provision have already been created as described in 41.9 & 41.10?.!

You cannot have mankind and his food source created before sunlight?.sorry to break this to you?..

It is further interesting to observe the precise term use by God in his description of this phenomenon. He did not say "mist" as current scientific terminology would have it, and which implies a spray of cool water, rather He described it as a "smoke," which implies a hot gas with airborne particles. This is exactly what scientists have been photographing for a couple of decades now, specifically, a tremendously hot cauldron of spiraling celestial gasses and other suspended matter which condense at the center of the spiral into a molten core which then cools down to form a star, and from them, planets. This planet, after many centuries of cooling down may then develop an atmosphere and other detailed features such as streams and valleys, etc.

Again?please tell us how mankind can exist on earth BEFORE the ?hot gas? has been removed??!

There is absolutely no error in the Quran except in the minds of those who do not want 2 understand it or deliberately deny It. But then again as far as im concerned i focus more on the mathematical miracle of the Quran based on code-19. Bro Bahman is still waiting 4 the challenge. GOD Bless!

I have already shown you the error of the sura 41 creation sequence?

You keep turning your head (and coughing) when you see the obvious sequence markers getting in the way of your paradigm interpretation?

Now?why are you running away from your book of faith?.?

Take care?

jonny_k

If you want a complete understanding of your book of faith, then you owe it to yourself to reference its source material ? the Holy Bible?

Khi- Yeah right! Duh!

Hence, if you want to shower the Koran with praises for it?s ?scientific prowess? , then you must also give kudos to the Biblical material that makes-up the Koran in the first place?

Khi- Many pts as ive menetioned in the initial post of this thread show many signs in the Quran which r NOT mentioned anywhere in the Bible.

Been there done that.

Khi- Well i guess then the argument is over. U dont seem 2 or maybe u just dont wanna understand. U snd like a missionary who wants 2 evangelize us. If thts ur pt u can give it up since i told u tht i mainly believe in the Quran coz of code-19 miracle n bro Bahman n i r still waiting 4 anyone 2 take up the challenge at y19.org.

Like I already told you.

What?s the matter?.the PRIMARY meanings a little too direct for you to handle?

Guess what?.Frank falls completely flat in his ?argument??

Why don?t you cover for his lack of understanding instead of defaulting to the nearest ?googled? linkage to bail you out?..time and again?

Khi- Like i said 2 ur is ur way n 2 me is mine. U dont wanna understand. well then thts not my prob. I suggest ppl read both the Bible n Quran by themselves n lets see 4 which theyll go.

Frank, frank, frank?.

Please show us where Frank mentions the sequence marker ?fa??.

Lots-a-luck? lol

Khi- Like i said we wld be going in circles here. U just dont seem 2 get it. I have no prob with the undertstanding of those verses. Btw 'fa' is NOT always used as a sequenec marker in the Quran but maybe used 2 relate a particular set of events.