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  4. Is Quran anti- secular?

Is Quran anti- secular?

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  • M Offline
    M Offline
    mquran
    wrote on last edited by
    #93

    Brother. You will never get a straight forward answer from Mujafiqeen

    Salaam KGB, you've certainly done your reading about munafiqeen. I need to see if this issue is worth the time to discuss. If it seems to be a waste of time, I'd rather focus on my own research.

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    • B Offline
      B Offline
      born_again
      wrote on last edited by
      #94

      if the Quran is enough to run a country why did (and still do) civilizations under Shariah law mostly rule from sources outside of the Quran?

      if the Quran was a handbook for running a country then we certainly wouldn't need sunnah, fiqh or other human made laws to complete the country's constitution.

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      • J Offline
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        Jaxal
        wrote on last edited by
        #95

        SaLaM born_again

        if the Quran is enough to run a country why did (and still do) civilizations under Shariah law mostly rule from sources outside of the Quran?

        Exacty. And even with those sources, look how far any of them got.

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        • S Offline
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          shamsul-arefin
          wrote on last edited by
          #96

          this discussion is really tiring........I can see that there will be another type of fanatic group emerging in the near future within this God Alone concept.......

          peace

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          • M Offline
            M Offline
            mquran
            wrote on last edited by
            #97

            Born-againif the Quran is enough to run a country why did (and still do) civilizations under Shariah law mostly rule from sources outside of the Quran?

            Hello ? How did Shariah come into this? Do you know where you are in cyberspace, friend ?

            if the Quran was a handbook for running a country then we certainly wouldn't need sunnah, fiqh or other human made laws to complete the country's constitution.

            Sigh..Sunnah, fiqh and all the other made up stuff is DIRECT CONTRADICTION to Quranic Law. Have you actually looked at this or what? It was never meant to 'COMPLETE' the country's constitution but to 'SUBVERT'. Why do you think that NOT A SINGLE element of Sharia law comes from Al-quraan?

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            • M Offline
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              mquran
              wrote on last edited by
              #98

              Shamsul
              this discussion is really tiring........I can see that there will be another type of fanatic group emerging in the near future within this God Alone concept.......

              What an unfair remark. It's ok for you to completely overlook al-quraan in your discourse and when people like myself seek evidence, we're branded as 'fanatics' pejoratively? What's a fanatic anyway ? A guy excessively into his ideology? You don't think Al-quraan warrants this kind of devotion? In that case, I don't think you fit in well with it, dude.

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              • U Offline
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                unknownuser
                wrote on last edited by
                #99

                Shamsul
                this discussion is really tiring........I can see that there will be another type of fanatic group emerging in the near future within this God Alone concept.......

                U are right, Shamsul. I can sense it coming too. And its ''Quran alone'' and not God alone.

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                • M Offline
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                  mquran
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #100

                  http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4272&start=0

                  secular or circular?

                  Sadly, trying to be too clever necessitates ( a little ) cleverness. As usual, quippy and never actually addressing the point, that's Mehdi.

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                  • N Offline
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                    Nadia25
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #101

                    Peace.

                    U are right, Shamsul. I can sense it coming too. And its ''Quran alone'' and not God alone.

                    I agree. A friend told me something beautiful the other night.

                    "you dont read God, you feel God"

                    I still think the messege of the quraan, is wonderful, but the importent thing is our belive in God.

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                    • U Offline
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                      unknownuser
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #102

                      HI all,
                      Please vote in the poll here on the issue
                      http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4495

                      Thank u.

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                      • U Offline
                        U Offline
                        unknownuser
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #103

                        HI all,
                        Please vote in the poll here on the issue
                        http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4495
                        Thank u.

                        I have voted and I voted for SECULAR DEMOCRACY -)

                        Hey this voting thing - do you think it will catch on? wink

                        Regards,

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                        • U Offline
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                          unknownuser
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #104

                          Hi Lotetree,

                          Hey this voting thing - do you think it will catch on? wink

                          I think its a better way to get everyone's views coz many do not participate in the forum discussions becoz of the all the nonsense that comes with it etc. Some others prefer reading the discussions than participating.
                          So, It will be good to know what all people out here, think on the subject, through a poll.

                          I dont know if it will catch up but yeah, I hope many participate so that we can know what everyone's views are.

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                          • U Offline
                            U Offline
                            unknownuser
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #105

                            Hi Lotetree,

                            Hey this voting thing - do you think it will catch on? wink

                            I think its a better way to get everyone's views coz many do not participate in the forum discussions becoz of the all the nonsense that comes with it etc. Some others prefer reading the discussions than participating.
                            So, It will be good to know what all people out here, think on the subject, through a poll.

                            I dont know if it will catch up but yeah, I hope many participate so that we can know what everyone's views are.

                            The poll is good...I just tried to make a wider connection of voting and democracy (the debate of this thread -) wink

                            Regards,

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                            • M Offline
                              M Offline
                              mquran
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #106

                              Please vote in the poll here on the issue
                              http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4495

                              Your initiative is proof of your bias. Look at your wording
                              'religious legislation in all countries according to the religion of majority'.

                              Is al-quraan promoting a RELIGION?

                              Devious, PM, real devious.

                              Al-quraan promotes ad-deen al-islaam , the servitude to Allah alone, through the obedience of his laws. You''re not a muslim unless you submit to His Laws. However, you would ask the approval of al-kuffar before you serve Allah?

                              Never will al-yahood or an-nasara be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion. Say "The Guidance of God,-that is the (only) Guidance." Wert thou to follow their desires after the knowledge which hath reached thee, then wouldst thou find neither Protector nor helper against God. (2/120)

                              Al-quraan predicted your attitude before you even concieved it.

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                              • S Offline
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                                shamsul-arefin
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #107

                                Shamsul
                                this discussion is really tiring........I can see that there will be another type of fanatic group emerging in the near future within this God Alone concept.......

                                What an unfair remark. It's ok for you to completely overlook al-quraan in your discourse and when people like myself seek evidence, we're branded as 'fanatics' pejoratively? What's a fanatic anyway ? A guy excessively into his ideology? You don't think Al-quraan warrants this kind of devotion? In that case, I don't think you fit in well with it, dude.

                                brother mquran...dont be offended pls.....I didnt mention anyones name here...so pls dont take it over you. I have just made a prediction and I am focusing on the mind set..not the Quranic teaching.

                                If I didnt accept Quran to be guiding book than I wouldnt be in this forum for yearssss........I am just focusing on the pattern which we should be aware of. We should always ask ourselve if we are getting obsessed with something or not. In my opinion Obsession about God is also harmful and can deviat us from sound judgement.

                                sorry if I offended you...

                                shanti/peace

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                                • S Offline
                                  S Offline
                                  stillearning
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #108

                                  Salaam PM

                                  HI all,
                                  Please vote in the poll here on the issue

                                  Dangerous indeed this democracy thing might catch on and what might that lead to Choice for the people, better living standards, freedom to practice their faith or lack of it etc. Very dangerous indeed.
                                  Regards

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                                  • U Offline
                                    U Offline
                                    unknownuser
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #109

                                    secular or circular?
                                    ?

                                    Perhaps its a Spiral? wink

                                    Regards,

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                                    • J Offline
                                      J Offline
                                      Jaxal
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #110

                                      SaLaM stillearning

                                      Dangerous indeed this democracy thing might catch on and what might that lead to Choice for the people, better living standards, freedom to practice their faith or lack of it etc. Very dangerous indeed.
                                      Regards

                                      Exactly! This is what Quran advocates. Quran does not says ANYWHERE to use itself to run a country. The quran, quite simply put it, is not capable to be used to run a country.

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                                      • S Offline
                                        S Offline
                                        shamsul-arefin
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #111

                                        Peace.

                                        U are right, Shamsul. I can sense it coming too. And its ''Quran alone'' and not God alone.

                                        I agree. A friend told me something beautiful the other night.

                                        "you dont read God, you feel God"

                                        I still think the messege of the quraan, is wonderful, but the importent thing is our belive in God.

                                        I agree with your friend.. indeed it a beautiful remark..

                                        shanti/peace

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                                        • B Offline
                                          B Offline
                                          born_again
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #112

                                          Hello ? How did Shariah come into this? Do you know where you are in cyberspace, friend ?

                                          Sigh..Sunnah, fiqh and all the other made up stuff is DIRECT CONTRADICTION to Quranic Law. Have you actually looked at this or what? It was never meant to 'COMPLETE' the country's constitution but to 'SUBVERT'. Why do you think that NOT A SINGLE element of Sharia law comes from Al-quraan?

                                          I meant the Quran is NOT enough and appropriate for running countries.

                                          Waanzalna ilayka alkitaba bialhaqqi musaddiqan lima bayna yadayhi mina alkitabi wamuhayminan AAalayhi faohkum baynahum bima anzala Allahu wala tattabiAA ahwaahum AAamma jaaka mina alhaqqi likullin jaAAalna minkum shirAAatan waminhajan walaw shaa Allahu lajaAAalakum ommatan wahidatan walakin liyabluwakum feema atakum faistabiqoo alkhayrati ila Allahi marjiAAukum jameeAAan fayunabbi-okum bima kuntum feehi takhtalifoona

                                          538 And We have sent down to you the Scripture with truth, authenticating what is present of the Scripture and superseding it. So judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their desires from what has come to you of the truth. For each of you We have made laws, and a structure; and had God willed, He would have made you all one nation, but He tests you with what He has given you; so strive to do good. To God you will return all of you, and He will inform you regarding that in which you dispute.

                                          Do you think that if the Quran was revealed in 20th century it would have the same laws for adulters for example, whipping?

                                          We are in the space age buddy, wake up wink

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