verse 15:87
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Assuming that is the case maybe we should find the 7 or if there is more than 7?
The passage I quoted lists the 7 and the thinking behind it
Five punishment-stories stand out from the others, those of Noah, Hud and the tribe of 'Ad, Salih and the tribe of Thamud, Lot, and Shu'ayb and the people of Midian. And two others are prominent in some suras, the story of Moses and the drowning of Pharaoh's army, and the story of Arabham rejecting the idols of his people. These seven occur together in XXVI, 10-191, and are mentioned together in XXII, 42-4.
So the main 7 are
- Noah's flood
- Hud and the tribe of 'Ad
- Salih and Thamud
- Lot in Sodom and Gomorrah
- Shu'ayb and the Midian
- Moses and the Pharaoh
- Abraham and his people
The passage then goes on, listing some more, but identifying them as less important parables
Shorter versions of some of these seven and references to these and some others (Jonah, the people of Sheba, the men of al-Rass, and the people of Tubba' occur... The "men of al-Hidj"... are probably the tribe of Thamud; the "men of the Grove"... seem to be identical with the people of Midian; and "the subverted (cities)" (al-mu'tafikat) are most likely Sodom and Gomorrah, the cities of Lot. Thus these three are apparently variations of three of the seven.
So the extras are
- Jonah
- People of Sheba
- Al-Rass
- People of Tubba'
I think the best thing to do would be to check if these 7 occur in the Bible, and whether the last 4 do not, because that would lend much more weight to this interpretation, as we know that the same mathani were sent down to others who split their scriptures apart.
But honestly these parables fit the criteria for mathani..it makes perfect sense that Muhammad would have 'strained his eyes' at them or grieved at some of of them, and it also fits the frequent translation of mathaniya as "oft-repeated", as in 'oft-repeated parables'.
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The Quran refers to itself as al qasasu 'l-haqq in 362 and refers to itself as qasas in 123, and the word qasas means "narration" or "account".
The verse 11100 that you mentioned uses qasas as a verb, and not a noun "These are some of the stories of communities which We relate/narrate unto thee"
7176 refers to the analogy of an unbeliever with a dog
Nowhere does the Quran refer to the punishment stories specifically as al-qasas as you're claiming. It is clearly a more general term, and the Quran compares itself to Al-Qasas.
And as we know, the Quran also refers to itself as resembling mathaniya, so the correlation definitely exists.
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The Quran refers to itself as al qasasu 'l-haqq in 362 and refers to itself as qasas in 123, and the word qasas means "narration" or "account".
The verse 11100 that you mentioned uses qasas as a verb, and not a noun "These are some of the stories of communities which We relate/narrate unto thee"
7176 refers to the analogy of an unbeliever with a dog
Nowhere does the Quran refer to the punishment stories specifically as al-qasas as you're claiming. It is clearly a more general term, and the Quran compares itself to Al-Qasas.
And as we know, the Quran also refers to itself as resembling mathaniya, so the correlation definitely exists.
A verb has a verbal noun which is reflected in the verb. This verb does not mean that Allah was quoting parables. What He stated were
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Certainly there has been a lesson in their/of Messengers narrated episodes/incidents for the men of understanding who reflect objectively to arrive at the purpose/objective of it.Surat Yusuf 12110
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Peace be upon all,
I?m sorry if I could not explain these in detail, I have no knowledge of arabic and I read the Book in my own language and find the translation in English, to post here. From my experience, 1587 are more in connection with the verses where God mention "pairs" in all His creations, including man and woman. The pair are the Spirit of God (our self) and the Spirit of Truth (our iman) which is within each of us. Below are some of the verses mentioning the creation of the ?pairs? within us.
3636 Glory be (to) the One Who created (in) pairs all of what grows the earth and of themselves, and of what not they know.
5149 And of everything We have created pairs that ye may receive instruction.
5345-48
45_And that He created the pairs, the male and the female
46_From a semen-drop when it is emitted.
47_And that upon Him (is) the bringing forth another.
48_And that He enriches and suffices.788 And We created you (in) pairs,
There are also a few verses from the Gospel of John which are connected with the pair that is within us;
1415 If you love me, keep my commandments. 1416 I will pray to our Lord, and He will give you another Counselor, that he may be with you forever, 1417 the Spirit of truth, whom the world can't receive; for it doesn't see him, neither knows him. You know him, for he lives with you, and will be in you.
1424 He who doesn't love me doesn't keep my words. The word which you hear isn't mine, but our Lord who sent me. 1425 I have said these things to you, while still living with you. 1426 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Lord will send, he will teach you all things, and will remind you of all that I said to you.
1613 However when he, the Spirit of truth, has come, he will guide you into all truth, for he will not speak from himself; but whatever he hears, he will speak. He will declare to you things that are coming.
Quran (read/reading) is a sunni name, but if one understand the whole Book, everything within is all about the Truth, and thus should be named , the Holy Book of Truth. Each individual who submitted to God?s Will is required to make a covenant with God and swear an oath.
The seven of/for the pairs (is The Opener or should be The Oath and The Covenant),
Oath
In the name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.
All praises and thanks be to God, the Lord of the Universe;
The Most Gracious, the Most Merciful;
Master of the Day of Judgment.Covenant
You alone we worship, and You alone we ask for help.
Guide us on the path, the straight.
The path of those You have bestowed Favors on them, not those who earned Your wrath on themselves, and not those who go astray.Only God with the Holy Book of Truth (Quran) will bring forth the spirit of truth (iman) in each of us.
May God bless us all with the Truth
tauhid101. -
A verb has a verbal noun which is reflected in the verb. This verb does not mean that Allah was quoting parables
Mazhar, do you even know what you're saying? Or do you just like to spout nonsense on a regular basis? What you said makes no sense whatsoever
The verse reads
naqussuhu 3alayka = that we relate to you
There is no "verbal noun" being reflected on the verb, nor is there any nounish verbs being mirrored into the adverbs and supported by predicate pronouns
The verse is 100% clearInstead of hiding behind nonsense, why don't you specifically show us where the Quran calls the punishment stories "al-qasas" like you claimed 2 posts ago.
And secondly, 12110 that you've quoted doesn't say what you've written at all.
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Mazhar, do you even know what you're saying? Or do you just like to spout nonsense on a regular basis? What you said makes no sense whatsoever
The verse reads
naqussuhu 3alayka = that we relate to you
There is no "verbal noun" being reflected on the verb, nor is there any nounish verbs being mirrored into the adverbs and supported by predicate pronouns
The verse is 100% clearInstead of hiding behind nonsense, why don't you specifically show us where the Quran calls the punishment stories "al-qasas" like you claimed 2 posts ago.
And secondly, 12110 that you've quoted doesn't say what you've written at all.
It is always easy to make those clearly understand who have not yet made themselves idiots by self-presumed thought of being a scholar of Qur'aan while not knowing elementaries of Arabic.
The attidude of self-presuming scholars is that when in response to a stupid theory a point is subtly raised, their first response is that "don't understand the relevance of that post/quoted Ayat". And when relevance is openly stated, they come up with objection and a scholarly/categorical statement like
Nowhere does the Quran refer to the punishment stories specifically as al-qasas as you're claiming]And when Ayat of Qur'aan is quoted which in simple and plain words calls those narrations as "Al Qasas"-12110, we get response like above quote which may seem authoritative for those who do not know Arabic but such stupidly self presuming scholars conveniently forget that they are exposing themselves nudely as idiots to those who know.
naqussuhu Verb Imperfect; First Person; Plural; Mood indicative visible by dhamma at the end; Subject pronoun hidden/implied; Verbal Noun base -
This verb says nothing except "We narrate/relate/describe " -eposodes/incidences/happenings in exact sequence-clip by clip-step by step.
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We have given you the seven pairs, and the great Quran.
Fact Prophet Muhammad was given the seven pairs AND the great Quran
Deduced fact 1 seven pairs are distinct & separate from the great Quran because of AND relationship
Deduced fact 2 It is illogical to say that the seven pairs (initial, chapter 1, etc) are in the Quran
Deduced fact 3 Prophet Muhammad needed both seven pairs and the Quran for his guidance
Deduced fact 4 We only need the Quran for our guidance (thus 7 pairs need not be explained)
Hope this helps.
Conjecture Maybe Prophet Muhammad got the seven pairs when he ascended to heavens just for his consumption.
Peace.
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Deduced fact 1 seven pairs are distinct & separate from the great Quran because of AND relationship
Deduced fact 2 It is illogical to say that the seven pairs (initial, chapter 1, etc) are in the Quran
Why forgetting/not taking into account
And where is written the word "pairs" in the Arabic sentence?
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Why forgetting/not taking into account
And where is written the word "pairs" in the Arabic sentence?
Peace Mazhar,
I have used the translation provided by the thread owner/initiator. I should have quoted the first post to be complete. I will not get into the correctness of the translation in this discussion because it does not impact the logic being presented.
The verse in question can also be analyzed this way Prophet Muhammad was given X AND Y
In this context if you think X can be part of Y then please give us the rationale. We are here to learn from each other and take into consideration all valid view point. Thanks.
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I will not get into the correctness of the translation in this discussion because it does not impact the logic being presented.
I dont know how one can think he is presenting logic when he is not sure about the correctness of the translation upon which the so called logic and deductions are being made. I simply see it as nothing but stupidity.
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Salaam Sarah,
I thought i counted more than seven so i guess they're just considered "minor" (in that opinion). if you take that stance, does that mean you take the waw as a emphatic not as and?
No I consider it as "and", because these stories didn't really come down solely through the Quran, but came down in previous scriptures and in tribal lore. Stories of the destruction of 'Ad and Sodom and Gomorrah already existed in the region as far as I know, so they aren't technically sent down in the Quran.
And I'm not backing this view 100%, I just think it's the best we have so far, and it sort of works.Salaam Mazhar,
Yet again a post 99% garbage
t is always easy to make those clearly understand who have not yet made themselves idiots by self-presumed thought of being a scholar of Qur'aan while not knowing elementaries of Arabic.
The attidude of self-presuming scholars is that when in response to a stupid theory a point is subtly raised, their first response is that "don't understand the relevance of that post/quoted Ayat". And when relevance is openly stated, they come up with objection and a scholarly/categorical statement like
And when Ayat of Qur'aan is quoted which in simple and plain words calls those narrations as "Al Qasas"-12110, we get response like above quote which may seem authoritative for those who do not know Arabic but such stupidly self presuming scholars conveniently forget that they are exposing themselves nudely as idiots to those who know.
Wow, so I clearly hit a nerve there, eh?
- You state about 3 or 4 times that I don't understand Arabic - I speak it and read it fluently, my friend.
- Never have I stated that I am "a scholar" or "one of those who know" or any stupid bullshit like that - these are your own childish fantasies.
- If you had any logic whatsoever, you would be able to notice what I told you already
The Quran refers to itself as "Al-Qasas 'l-haqq" in 362 -->
Secondly Mr. Arabic Linguist, please translate the following verses
It is clear without a shadow of a doubt that the Quran is referring to itself as al-Qasas
Now let's look at your ridiculous argument
And when Ayat of Qur'aan is quoted which in simple and plain words calls those narrations as "Al Qasas"-12110,
This is a lie.
You know this is a lie, and yet you still stick to your lie.
12110 says
Till, when the Messengers despaired, deeming they were counted liars, Our help came to them and whosoever We willed was delivered. Our might will never be turned back from the people of the sinners.
12111 says
In their stories is surely a lesson to men possessed of minds; it is not a tale forged, but a confirmation of what is before it, and a distinguishing of every thing, and a guidance, and a mercy to a people who believe.
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The word "al-Qasas" does not appear in 12110, nor in 12111.
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The Qasas in 12111 do not refer to the punishment stories, they refer to all the stories sent down to the messengers.
Your argument is so profoundly idiotic that I feel shame in actually bothering to reply to you.
Nowhere does it refer to the punishment stories specifically as al-Qasas as you claim. Qasas means "stories", and can refer to any story.
So take your half-baked exegesis somewhere else, and take your childish insults to the playground where you belong. You can teach the other 6 year-olds some Arabic.
Oh, and if you still think that just because "qasas" is used in 12111 it refers to "al-qasas", see the difference between al-Qur'an in 7204 an Qur'an in 1015.
Also check out al-Deen in 14, 2193, 2256, etc etc, and deenihim in 324
EDIT
I dont know how one can think he is presenting logic when he is not sure about the correctness of the translation upon which the so called logic and deductions are being made. I simply see it as nothing but stupidity.
Mazhar your narcissism disgusts me. I'm going to expose you as a fool. Did you forget you made this moronic statement?
The facts about "annihilated nations" are called "Al Qasas".
Prove it. Or accept it as "nothing but stupidity."
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In their stories is surely a lesson to men possessed of minds; it is not a tale forged, but a confirmation of what is before it, and a distinguishing of every thing, and a guidance, and a mercy to a people who believe.
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The word "al-Qasas" does not appear in 12110, nor in 12111.
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You state about 3 or 4 times that I don't understand Arabic - I speak it and read it fluently, my friend.
Till recently we had a friend here who proclaimed to be 100% Arab and in fact he knew nothing about Arabic. I find a glimpse of him again on the forum.
You think there is no "al-Qasas" in it while proclaiming as regularly speaking and reading Arabic fluently. The word is a phrase. Possessive phrase; and the possessive pronoun is definite. And this is elementary lesson of Arabic that the first noun of Possessive Phrase never carries "Al" with it since its "Al" is visible from the possessive definite noun or pronoun. It means "The Qasas of them".
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Mazhar -
It is not talking about the punishment stories - it is talking about ALL of their stories
Before your onslaught of gibberish about some old friend who claimed to speak Arabic, you only quoted my first point.
Why haven't you quoted the 2nd?Your argument is idiotic from start to finish. You keep quoting 12111 to say that all punishment stories are called Qasas
But you didn't respond to my challenge
Secondly Mr. Arabic Linguist, please translate the following verses
Since you weren't able to translate these verses, nor find their location in the Quran, then I shall do it for you
121 Alif Lam Ra. Those are the signs of the Manifest Book.
122 We have sent it down as an Arabic Koran; haply you will understand.
123 We will relate to thee the fairest of stories by Our revealing to you this Koran12110 Till, when the Messengers despaired, deeming they were counted liars, Our help came to them
12111 In their stories is surely a lesson to menAny monkey off the street can see that the Quran is referring to itself as al-Qasas, and that qasas refer to ALL stories from the messengers
We are talking about something different Mazhar, and instead of replying with logical points or verses from the Quran, you like to go ooon and ooon with stupid gibberish and insults.
So either you do not understand simple 2nd grade logic, or you are intentionally being stupid.
I think it is the former.
So again
The facts about "annihilated nations" are called "Al Qasas".
Prove it. Or accept it as "nothing but stupidity."
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But you didn't respond to my challenge
Quote
Secondly Mr. Arabic Linguist, please translate the following versesSince you weren't able to translate these verses, nor find their location in the Quran, then I shall do it for you
121 Alif Lam Ra. Those are the signs of the Manifest Book.
122 We have sent it down as an Arabic Koran; haply you will understand.
123 We will relate to thee the fairest of stories by Our revealing to you this Koran12110 Till, when the Messengers despaired, deeming they were counted liars, Our help came to them
12111 In their stories is surely a lesson to menThis is what people have been copying and pasting from earlier translations, without ever burdening their own mind, which is evident from the fact that the word "stories" is used for Al qasas while in Arabic there is different word for it. The word "story" at its own does not make a distinction between fictional account of event or series of events and a factual event. Arabic is too precise language like the physical sciences. It does not use vague words which could be construed either way.
According to Qur'aan only Kaafir call the facts/Al Qasas narrated by Qur'aan as stories of old people.
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Aleph , Laam with prolongation sign/glyph, Ra conjoined with preceding letter.
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These are the Aa'ya'at of that Book which makes things/knowledge distinct and crystal clear.
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Indeed We have sent that Book as Written Book/Qur'aan in Arabic language/clear, perspicuous, eloquent, distinct, free from admixture, void of indistinctness, apparent like the daybreak and divested of the froth
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so that you people may be able to save it in memory/reflect and differentiate
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We narrate to you, the Messenger step by step/event by event, the finest of the happened event/episodes which We had communicated to you in this Qur'aan
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and you the Messenger were indeed amongst those who were certainly un-aware of it in the time/period before this Qur'aan.Surat Yusuf which is usually translated under influence of conjectural stories and gossips
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Until when the Messengers thought of no chance of people believing and they adjudged that they indeed have been contradicted publicly, Our help came to them whereby/resultantly he was saved whom We willed.
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And Our severity/affliction is not turned away from the exploiting people.
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Certainly there has been a lesson in their/of Messengers narrated episodes/incidents for the men of understanding who reflect objectively to arrive at the purpose/objective of it.
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Qur'aan is not such a Statement that someone could have compiled/authored it;
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and/rather it is the affirmation/certification of the one which was sent before it
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and the elaboration/organization/differentiation/delineation/contrast of each and every thing/matter.
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And the Guide and Mercy/blessing for the believing people.12110-111
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025.005
YUSUFALI And they say "Tales of the ancients, which he has caused to be written and they are dictated before him morning and evening."
PICKTHAL And they say Fables of the men of old which he hath had written down so that they are dictated to him morn and evening.
SHAKIR And they say The stories of the ancients-- he has got them written-- so these are read out to him morning and evening.Mazhar A. Nurani And they/many members of ruling elite said to people, "These are the tales of the ancients which he has written down;
Al-Furqan
Now find the difference between the two words. Both these Arabic words cannot be translated by the same English word which also goes with the allegation of Kaafir/Pagans.
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ths
We are talking about something different Mazhar, and instead of replying with logical points or verses from the Quran, you like to go ooon and ooon with stupid gibberish and insults.
So either you do not understand simple 2nd grade logic, or you are intentionally being stupid.
I think it is the former.he takes his time.. so be cool bro rotfl
ths
The Quran refers to itself as "Al-Qasas 'l-haqq" in 362 -->
Secondly Mr. Arabic Linguist, please translate the following verses
rotflThe translation of 362 by Mazhar
Indeed this stated episode is certainly a fact, word by word/event by event.Khalifa
Absolutely, this is the narration of the truth...
Yusuf Ali
This is the true account
Pickthal
Lo! This verily is the true narrative..
Shakir
Most surely this is the true explanation,
Sher Ali
This certainly is the true account..
"Progressive Muslims"
This is the narration of truth,..Therefore the Arabic language genius translates it as "certain fact", and I see no "story" in it, and "episode"? what about "episode"? o
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ths
he takes his time.. so be cool bro rotflths rotfl
The translation of 362 by Mazhar
Indeed this stated episode is certainly a fact, word by word/event by event.Khalifa
Absolutely, this is the narration of the truth...
Yusuf Ali
This is the true account
Pickthal
Lo! This verily is the true narrative..
Shakir
Most surely this is the true explanation,
Sher Ali
This certainly is the true account..
"Progressive Muslims"
This is the narration of truth,..Therefore the Arabic language genius translates it as "certain fact", and I see no "story" in it, and "episode"? what about "episode"?
Khalifa
Absolutely, this is the narration of the truth...
Yusuf Ali
This is the true account
Pickthal
Lo! This verily is the true narrative..
Shakir
This sentence leaves the possibility of raising question about "this" as to what it is.is a demonstrative pronoun and is definite referring to a particular thing or matter. This pronoun is referring to the stated episode. And the statement contains two emphasis making the statement of fact quite emphatic. And quite strangely the above translators quite naively ignored the presence of singular, masculine, third person pronoun brought as separator pronoun in between the subject and predicate of Verb like particle denoting that this should be taken only with reference to earlier stated episode and not a generalized statement.
