Veil in Saudi Arabia-- Do You Find This Interesting?
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Peace S2S,
I didn't mention hijab-wearing women at all, in fact I specifically stated that I'm not talking about the average Arab Muslim woman who covers herself. I have respect for any woman who chooses to wear hijab to proclaim her modesty, as long as it's not a hypocrtical stance. I myself wouldn't choose that form of modesty for my own reasons but respect anyone who does choose so.
But I did not mention hijab-wearing women in my post! I did not go near that at all.
I was only responding to what you mentioned earlier here is the quoteSo various bedouins of different Arab regions have come up with nifty ways of hiding the nose while adding more emphasis on the eyes... which is an area most Arab women like about themselves anyway. and it adds more lift to the cheeks, etc etc. So really it's just like make-up for western women LOL
In my response to you I wrote that I never met a woman or heard of one who would use anything on her face for the purpose of "hiding her nose while adding emphasis on the eyes"! Especially when there is nothing not beautiful with their noses. Have you met any woman who does that for that purpose?
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Salam Taj
So how many bedouins have YOU met?
Because I haven't met any I just read about them ... -
As Salaam Alaikum TAJ,
In my response to you I wrote that I never met a woman or heard of one who would use anything on her face for the purpose of "hiding her nose while adding emphasis on the eyes"! Especially when there is nothing not beautiful with their noses. Have you met any woman who does that for that purpose?
Let's remember that this is Arabian culture, not another. It is no myth that Arabs have been known for the covering of their face. Therefore while it may be something taboo in some places, it may very well be another everday accesory in the deserts of Arabia.
Come on, plenty of us have this illusion of sex when it comes to women covering their faces.
salaam
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Peace Arnoldyasin,
A quotian from the book, The nature of the Book, by Dr.Shahroor.
Is there finally an english translation of the book by Dr. Mohammed Shahrour which is in Arabic Al Kitab wa Al Quran? Or is it another book by him? Do you know where to purchase it from?
Thanks for answering and regards
warda -
Peace Arnold,
- The <Zeena> of a woman is identified in the same verse when GOD commands her to ?cover? her Zeena which is the <Jayb>.
<JAYB> in Arabic is used for any opening with TWO sides to it. Thus for the body of a woman, the <Jayb> would be the area of the breasts, the area under the arms, the vagina area <Farj> as well as the hands, feet, nose, mouth and
ears. It is incorrect to define <Jayb> as merely the breasts of a woman since that will lead to a wrong understanding of the minimum dress-code requirements (i.e the woman can cover her breasts and walk around naked revealing everything else).
The area of the head (mouth, ears, nose) as well as the feet and hands all fall under the EXCEPTION to being covered which is mentioned as <Ma Zahar> in the same verse. <Ma Zahar> is literally translated as "that which protrudes", thus the limbs (head, feet and hands) are all protruding <Zahar> from the body and therefore are exempt from having their <Zeena> which is the <Jayb> from being covered.
It is worth noting that a woman's stomach and back are NOT part of the <Zeena> and can be revealed if one wished to do so with no implications of "Right" or "Wrong".
It is upto the believing women to ensure that all these areas known as <Zeena> are covered and not revealed to anyone except 1. Husband, 2. Father, 3. Husband?s Father, 4. Son, 5. Husband?s Son, 6. Brother, 7. Brother?s Son, 8. Sister?s Son.
Some people may think that this allows a woman to appear entirely naked in front of the above list. The answer to that is ?yes?, it is not from the Halal or Haram if this happens, but it will be modesty and cultural norms that make this concept peculiar.It is CRITICAL to note that the list of men to whom a woman can reveal her <Zeena> does NOT include her (Uncle, Son from Suckling, Brother from Suckling, Mother?s Husband, Daughter?s Husband and Sister?s Husband) EVEN THOUGHT these people are "Mahram's" whom she is forbidden from marrying (see sura # 4 for the full "Mahram" list).
This new understanding implies that some men may still have a sexual drive or desire for a woman even though they are her "Mahram's" which she is forbidden from marrying. Thus she is NOT to reveal her <Zeena> in their presence.This understanding of <Zeena> will force most Fiqh scholars to re-examine their understanding that the <Zeena> is merely ornaments or make-up, but it is something much more which only a limited few are allowed to see (or else the Mahram?s in Sura # 4 must never see a woman if she has make-up or jewelry on).
4) The next word for those who may see a woman?s <Zeena> is described by the word <NISAUHUN>.
This word has been mistakenly understood to be ?women?, whereas the word <Nisa?a> can also be used for ?those who came later? <Nasee?a>. This word covers all those who come later on such as Son?s Son, Grandchildren, Son?s, Son of Brother, Son?s Son of Sister (i.e. all those who come from the seed of the people allowed to see the woman?s Zeena).Is that quote from Sha7roor's book, or is it your understanding?
- The <Zeena> of a woman is identified in the same verse when GOD commands her to ?cover? her Zeena which is the <Jayb>.
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Salam Taj
WOW you're a bedouin! Which tribe? Was it easy for your family to get a passport from your original country? -
As Salaam Alaikum NP
As Salaam Alaikum TAJ,
In my response to you I wrote that I never met a woman or heard of one who would use anything on her face for the purpose of "hiding her nose while adding emphasis on the eyes"! Especially when there is nothing not beautiful with their noses. Have you met any woman who does that for that purpose?
Let's remember that this is Arabian culture, not another. It is no myth that Arabs have been known for the covering of their face. Therefore while it may be something taboo in some places, it may very well be another everday accesory in the deserts of Arabia.
Come on, plenty of us have this illusion of sex when it comes to women covering their faces.
salaam
I think that the burqa3, niqab, etc.. was originally (I mean something like thousands of years ago) invented for environmental reasons,, to protect the face from the sand storms and the generally harsh weather here especially with lack of water.
Another big reason, I think, is because of the bad way (most) men here view women, and so they make their women cover their faces in order not to be recognized by other men, so to conceal their identity,, as they cannot stand that another man is looking at their women (their possession). It is rigidity and possessiveness and not for religion reasons. Also many men think that having a daughter, a girl born to them is a disgrace they would rather hide.. so it is as if when the girl is not seen (her face as identity is not showing) then she does not exist. -
Peace Arnold,
- The <Zeena> of a woman is identified in the same verse when GOD commands her to ?cover? her Zeena which is the <Jayb>.
<JAYB> in Arabic is used for any opening with TWO sides to it. Thus for the body of a woman, the <Jayb> would be the area of the breasts, the area under the arms, the vagina area <Farj> as well as the hands, feet, nose, mouth and
ears. It is incorrect to define <Jayb> as merely the breasts of a woman since that will lead to a wrong understanding of the minimum dress-code requirements (i.e the woman can cover her breasts and walk around naked revealing everything else).
The area of the head (mouth, ears, nose) as well as the feet and hands all fall under the EXCEPTION to being covered which is mentioned as <Ma Zahar> in the same verse. <Ma Zahar> is literally translated as "that which protrudes", thus the limbs (head, feet and hands) are all protruding <Zahar> from the body and therefore are exempt from having their <Zeena> which is the <Jayb> from being covered.
It is worth noting that a woman's stomach and back are NOT part of the <Zeena> and can be revealed if one wished to do so with no implications of "Right" or "Wrong".
It is upto the believing women to ensure that all these areas known as <Zeena> are covered and not revealed to anyone except 1. Husband, 2. Father, 3. Husband?s Father, 4. Son, 5. Husband?s Son, 6. Brother, 7. Brother?s Son, 8. Sister?s Son.
Some people may think that this allows a woman to appear entirely naked in front of the above list. The answer to that is ?yes?, it is not from the Halal or Haram if this happens, but it will be modesty and cultural norms that make this concept peculiar.It is CRITICAL to note that the list of men to whom a woman can reveal her <Zeena> does NOT include her (Uncle, Son from Suckling, Brother from Suckling, Mother?s Husband, Daughter?s Husband and Sister?s Husband) EVEN THOUGHT these people are "Mahram's" whom she is forbidden from marrying (see sura # 4 for the full "Mahram" list).
This new understanding implies that some men may still have a sexual drive or desire for a woman even though they are her "Mahram's" which she is forbidden from marrying. Thus she is NOT to reveal her <Zeena> in their presence.This understanding of <Zeena> will force most Fiqh scholars to re-examine their understanding that the <Zeena> is merely ornaments or make-up, but it is something much more which only a limited few are allowed to see (or else the Mahram?s in Sura # 4 must never see a woman if she has make-up or jewelry on).
4) The next word for those who may see a woman?s <Zeena> is described by the word <NISAUHUN>.
This word has been mistakenly understood to be ?women?, whereas the word <Nisa?a> can also be used for ?those who came later? <Nasee?a>. This word covers all those who come later on such as Son?s Son, Grandchildren, Son?s, Son of Brother, Son?s Son of Sister (i.e. all those who come from the seed of the people allowed to see the woman?s Zeena).Is that quote from Sha7roor's book, or is it your understanding?
- The <Zeena> of a woman is identified in the same verse when GOD commands her to ?cover? her Zeena which is the <Jayb>.
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Sha7roor's book rotfl
would that be mister Sha7roor? O0
I don't know, but he looks like him (they both have the same hair cut)
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It seems Sha7roor is a real person
sorry Taj, i thought it was a good joke by you, LOL
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Peace,
TAJ, it is a quote from Shahroor's book, i'm still investigating his understandings, but i find them intruiging, that is why i posted them...
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arabic? what is that? O0
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arabic? what is that? O0
LOL
he looks funny though, Sudanease possibly
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I love myself tooooooo..............but also i don't know why..........
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Peace Ahmed,
Muhammah Shar7roor is a real person. He basically is trying to reinterpret Al Quran by creating a whole new meaning to the Arabic words. He is very entertaining in his TV interviews and has a great sense of humor, but you wouldn't see any body who is knowledgeable in Arabic language buying his talk!
It seems Sha7roor is a real person
sorry Taj, i thought it was a good joke by you, LOL
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Peace Arnold,
Peace,
TAJ, it is a quote from Shahroor's book, i'm still investigating his understandings, but i find them intruiging, that is why i posted them...arabic? what is that? O0
The <Zeena> of a woman is identified in the same verse when GOD commands her to ?cover? her Zeena which is the <Jayb>.
<JAYB> in Arabic is used for any opening with TWO sides to it. Thus for the body of a woman, the <Jayb> would be the area of the breasts, the area under the arms, the vagina area <Farj> as well as the hands, feet, nose, mouth and
ears. It is incorrect to define <Jayb> as merely the breasts of a woman since that will lead to a wrong understanding of the minimum dress-code requirements (i.e the woman can cover her breasts and walk around naked revealing everything else).From which Arabic dictionary did Shahroor bring that the Jayb means the Zeenah? Those two words have a completely different meaning.