Is modern technology mentioned in the quran...?
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Peace Fahad,
To make sure there is no confusion, here is the actual quote...just so we know what else has been studied during this time
Just to clarify... I read the quran in arabic,and i have studied it on and off for about 25 years...The last 7-8 years, very intensely at times.I have also been through 'nearly' all the posts in free-minds,some in submission.org,tolu islam,dr shabbirs forum,i have read translations,interpretations and opinions of dozens of authors,as well as talking to 'quran only' and traditional muslims for 25 years also.
I have also studied hinduism,buddhism,taoism,confuicism,new age spirituality,greek philosophy,philosophy,mysticism,paranormal,science,red indian spirituality,indigenous religions,atheism,agnosticism,polytheism,pantheism,panentheism,scientology,wicca.etc,etc...and most importantly life...And im still studying...Click here for the thread please.
Oh, so it was the quran he studied for 25 years. But when I brought that up, he responded with
Peace cavemandoctor. One,i said i had studied ISLAM for 25 years,and two,instead of ad homineum,why dont you answer some of the questions posed here... )
Peace all. ps; I bet some people who follow hadith,question,and object to the 'quran only followers' knowledge of quran as well...It would seem enquirer has, gasp, lied? ???
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Salaam cavemandoctor
Your piece on - difference between the Quran being a source of Guidance and not containing every piece of factual information from beginning to eternity was superb, and I think this discussion should be paused until a satisfactory answer is given by those stating that the Quran has misinformation within it.
regards -
Peace Fahad,
To make sure there is no confusion, here is the actual quote...just so we know what else has been studied during this time
Just to clarify... I read the quran in arabic,and i have studied it on and off for about 25 years...The last 7-8 years, very intensely at times.I have also been through 'nearly' all the posts in free-minds,some in submission.org,tolu islam,dr shabbirs forum,i have read translations,interpretations and opinions of dozens of authors,as well as talking to 'quran only' and traditional muslims for 25 years also.
I have also studied hinduism,buddhism,taoism,confuicism,new age spirituality,greek philosophy,philosophy,mysticism,paranormal,science,red indian spirituality,indigenous religions,atheism,agnosticism,polytheism,pantheism,panentheism,scientology,wicca.etc,etc...and most importantly life...And im still studying...Click here for the thread please.
Oh, so it was the quran he studied for 25 years. But when I brought that up, he responded with
Peace cavemandoctor. One,i said i had studied ISLAM for 25 years,and two,instead of ad homineum,why dont you answer some of the questions posed here... )
Peace all. ps; I bet some people who follow hadith,question,and object to the 'quran only followers' knowledge of quran as well...It would seem enquirer has, gasp, lied? ???
How does one study and understand Islam?
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Rats are the first one to jump off the sinking ship. ;D
Smart move!
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Peace Arnoldyasin
Peace Arnoldyasin
- You have to understand arabic grammar. So you need to learn arabic, so you can understand how the words interact with another. BUT you cannot use the modern arabic meanings to understand the Quran as these meanings are distorted. So then you have to buy every classic arabic dictionary and../..The problem now is to avoid the above common mistakes and to outgrow the distorted meanings of words.
in conclusion (yours), who doesn't know arabic grammar + don't learn Arabic of that time won't understand the correct meaning of the quran, correct, sr? Further conclusion (mine), they will have to rely on translations and /or interpretations of others, just as it is being done nowadays.
Yes, but that is not the best way. As your depended on that persons interpretation and not on the Quran itself. So i advise everyone to learn arabic. But indeed in the meanwhile learn the translations. Because the main message can be laerned from it.
Peacethis is not working Arnolyasin, something is left
if the 'main message' can be learned from translations, why the objections to them and their interpretations being the majority of them traditional, the distorted meanings in them and who knows in the progressive ones, etc, besides, more important, some of those distorted meanings can belong to the 'main'. I mean, let's suppose you mean by 'main message' = believing in God + good deeds, but how to perform those good deeds and how has to be that belief, these can be among the distorted meanings, why you don't include them in the 'main'? it's like taking them as irrelevant or taht they can be disregard.
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Peace Arnoldyasin
Peace Arnoldyasin
- You have to understand arabic grammar. So you need to learn arabic, so you can understand how the words interact with another. BUT you cannot use the modern arabic meanings to understand the Quran as these meanings are distorted. So then you have to buy every classic arabic dictionary and../..The problem now is to avoid the above common mistakes and to outgrow the distorted meanings of words.
in conclusion (yours), who doesn't know arabic grammar + don't learn Arabic of that time won't understand the correct meaning of the quran, correct, sr? Further conclusion (mine), they will have to rely on translations and /or interpretations of others, just as it is being done nowadays.
Yes, but that is not the best way. As your depended on that persons interpretation and not on the Quran itself. So i advise everyone to learn arabic. But indeed in the meanwhile learn the translations. Because the main message can be laerned from it.
Peacethis is not working Arnolyasin, something is left
if the 'main message' can be learned from translations, why the objections to them and their interpretations being the majority of them traditional, the distorted meanings in them and who knows in the progressive ones, etc, besides, more important, some of those distorted meanings can belong to the 'main'. I mean, let's suppose you mean by 'main message' = believing in God + good deeds, but how to perform those good deeds and how has to be that belief, these can be among the distorted meanings, why you don't include them in the 'main'? it's like taking them as irrelevant or taht they can be disregard.
Peace
What i didn't include, i think you filled it in yourself here. I never said what was part of the main message, you did that yourself. So the 'why didn't you include them part' is a bit strnage and out of place. As for the translations, you have to read ALL of them to see how the range of meanings can be, and then still keep in mind that 20% of the message is not translated correctly in all of those translations. For the rest i've been clear enough i believe. I'm not gonna explain all translations i don't agree with and which part is 'main' or not. If you really want my opinion on those, PM me.
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Peace Arnoldyasin
What i didn't include
the things you are studying to outgrow the distorted meanings
if I understood you well, you distinguish two things in the quran
- the main message, that you said it can be learnt from the translations
- the rest (what is not the main message) that can't be learnt from the trasnlations because have been distorted and need master classic arabic + history and language usage of that time to get the correct meaning
did I undertand you well? If yes, I continue (if not, you tell me)
my query among the things that need those masterings to be understood correctly, there can be some that are also main, crucial. Why did you separate those things from the main or how do you know they are not part of the main message?
ps what does "you filled it in yourself" mean? is itan English idiom?
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Peace Arnoldyasin
What i didn't include
the things you are studying to outgrow the distorted meanings
if I understood you well, you distinguish two things in the quran
- the main message, that you said it can be learnt from the translations
- the rest (what is not the main message) that can't be learnt from the trasnlations because have been distorted and need master classic arabic + history and language usage of that time to get the correct meaning
did I undertand you well? If yes, I continue (if not, you tell me)
my query among the things that need those masterings to be understood correctly, there can be some that are also main, crucial. Why did you separate those things from the main or how do you know they are not part of the main message?
ps what does "you filled it in yourself" mean? is itan English idiom?
No, a lot of different things are translated or approached wrong. So i cannot pinpoint one subject or not. What i mean more is that you can get a global idea of the message of the Quran, i didn't mean 'main subjects'. And i never seperated anything from the 'main'. You made your own idea of what i meant with 'main', that is what i meant with you filled it in yourself. But we are getting off-topic here.
Peace
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Er enquirer?!? Where are you? Even your 'back-ups' didn't take this long to reach you as your replies to these queries are?
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Peace
No, a lot of different things are translated or approached wrong. So i cannot pinpoint one subject or not. What i mean more is that you can get a global idea of the message of the Quran, i didn't mean 'main subjects'. And i never seperated anything from the 'main'. You made your own idea of what i meant with 'main', that is what i meant with you filled it in yourself. But we are getting off-topic here
you were who said "main message" that implies there are other things that don't belong to the 'main', then I asked for clarification.
in the last post you add a new term "global message"
it is not clear
I leave this discussion in peace. Thanks.
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Peace,
Sorry, if it is not clear, ok i'll try to clarify what i mean. With global message, i refer to the oneness of God, the resort to peace and goodness, that the Quran is connected with the other scriptures, that we should be aware of outside sources and so on. These are the global themes in the Quran, that can be understood even by almost all translations. But when it comes to deeper details even to the above subjects, the arabic must be investigated further. Like rahman and raheem come from the same root as nourishment/provide, this root is also shared with womb. So rahmaan and raheem is translated by most as only most mercifull, most gracious, but it is also connected with that God is the nourisher/provider as a womb is for a foetus. So with carefull study, a deeper layer is found. I hope this gives a bit of start of understanding..
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Peace
Quran is connected with the other scriptures
Can you clearify this.
All this root transalations is faulty way of approaching Qur'an. This is my point of view none of you have to agree with it.
Don't worry about topic going off topic. This topic is not going anywhere. All the Genius are trying to keep away as much as they can. The whole group who use to praise each other for very word are on the run.
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That it confirmes earlier scriptures. That it doesn't reject earlier revelations, but even welcomes them, but also warns us that they are corrupted over time. And yes where is our enquirer?
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Peace Arnold Yasin
Your reply make that statement very clear.
Now lets look at the history. Hadiths books are the part of history. Why history is important? Do we have to look at hadiths as history records to for the understanding of Qur'an?
I read Qur'an without any knowledge of history without even knowing what are Makki or Madni verses and try to apply them at present time.
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Peace,
This is my approach to hadith
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5825.msg88187#msg88187