Does the quran guarantee equal human rights for all people...?
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Peace,
Danish, answer my post instead of calling it silly, prove it is silly.......Yad means in ancient arabic hands as well as resources as abilities, as also it is used with Allah's hand. Prove it is silly.
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DanishGood Lord,
The only 'lord' you believe in are your delusions.
WOW, I can?t believe that when one takes Lord?s name, even that gets maligned out-of-context and demonized, let alone other words. This can only come from a satanic mind of ?prophet of doom? who?s purpose is to disrupt, dislodge, poison others mind and finally defecate all over the forum by preaching and displaying the Quran as gymnastics or circus. He has outspokenly and outrageously gone beyond recognition crossing all barriers. Avoid all evil for Satan will come from all sides and I am witnessing the biggest one insofar on this forum. Beats the heck out of PrinceZed and DoctorNo. Our ?humble? mods/admins can only stamp-out rules in silence.
If mquran?s consistent behaviour to disrupt and dislodge just about every post I make by his unprecedented, outrageous and profane replies, then the process to venting out in vengeance will continue and affect not only myself but the entire forum. He also repeats certain statements made in one post over and over again not only on the same thread but on other threads as well inappropriately where his remarks don?t belong. This is not acceptable and he has broken just about every rule and yet kept loose. If such adversaries are not taken care of, then please don?t come barging at me in reciprocations because I?ll do whatever I can to take this evil person out of my realm.
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Peace,
Danish, answer my post instead of calling it silly, proof it is silly.......Yad means in ancient arabic hands as well as resources as abilities, as also it is used with Allah's hand. Proof it is silly.
Ok, wise guy, you should have addressed or quoted your ramblings to me. Here, why don't you answer then "let me know what did the governer's wife give to the gossipers when she invited them into the room, as per 1231?"
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Peace,
Danish, i gave you a question first, i answer yours, you answer mine. I justed wanted to post this below, but you go on again using personal-directed comment as 'wise-guy'. Keep personal comments out of the debate. I never have used this with you so don't use it with me.
Danish and Mquran, the problem with this debate is, that it is not objective. There are to much personal-directed comments involved. To have a real discussion, all the name-calling and personal comments most be excluded from the debate as this is going nowhere.
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Arnold,
I'm getting to your silly notions and I will prove it by asking you the above question. What more are you asking for. You are making unecessary charges.
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Peace,
Of course a knife, but did they amputate their hands? No. Plus this verse can mean that the sighting of Yousouf cutted of their pealing ability for a second, or just that they made a cut on/wounded their hands. Still it doesn't say chop of the hands, plus using cross-reference with Allah's hands, it rather refers to abilities/resources.
Prove it cannot mean abilities/resources........Your turn...
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Peace,
Of course a knife, but did they amputate their hands? No. Plus this verse can mean that the sighting of Yousouf cutted of their pealing ability for a second, or just that they made a cut on/wounded their hands. Still it doesn't say chop of the hands, plus using cross-reference with Allah's hands, it rather refers to abilities/resources. Your turn...
O GOD, finally I get an answer. It wasn't that bad now, was it? If mquran would have given that answer earlier, it wouldn't have gone such far.
Now the purpose of a knife is to cut/chop. How can a knife cut/chop an "ability or a resource" other than the hand as mentioned, please explain? Can you pick a knife and cut/chop somebody's "skills" or "knowledge"? If it doesn't sound silly, then what is?
Edit And by the way where does it say 'yad' in both those verses (538 & 1231).
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Peace,
Don't use personal comments if you want to be taken seriously.
Where in the verse does it say they cut themselves with the knife? It says qatta'na aidihunna, which can mean both cut/wound their hands, and cutted/stopped the ability (of peeling). When using cross-reference, we can see throughout the Quran that Yad is mostly used with resources and abilities, by also seeing the context of the verse 539, the person must get the ability to reform and by thus get the chance to go back into society which is not really possible with just one hand, so it can only mean cut of the resources/abilities. Plus again, the women could have only cutted/wounded their hands in a non-serious matter if you approach the verse like that. So it cannot mean chop/cut off the whole hand as you apply.
So to you prove it can mean to chop/cut off the whole hand.
Plus, the cutting of the women also gives an interresting notion about 'marking the thieves' in a symbolic way as nowadays is done with photo-identification and fingerprints.
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Peace,
Don't use personal comments if you want to be taken seriously.
Where in the verse does it say they cut themselves with the knife? It says qatta'na aidihunna, which can mean both cut/wound their hands, and cutted/stopped the ability (of peeling). When using cross-reference, we can see throughout the Quran that Yad is mostly used with resources and abilities, by also seeing the context of the verse 539, the person must get the ability to reform and by thus get the chance to go back into society which is not really possible with just one hand, so it can only mean cut of the resources/abilities. Plus again, the women could have only cutted/wounded their hands in a non-serious matter if you approach the verse like that. So it cannot mean chop/cut off the whole hand as you apply.
So to you prove it can mean to chop/cut off the whole hand.
Plus, the cutting of the women also gives an interresting notion about 'marking the thieves' in a symbolic way as nowadays is done with photo-indentification and fingerprints.
There's no 'yad' in both those verses but 'aydi' and both talk about cutting of hands. You are bringing and mixing in other verses having different scenarios. Listen man, I am done with your silly notions. Do me a favor, do some real theological research into these verses before mixing things up and getting yourself and others confused.
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Peace,
Don't bring in personal comments if you want to be taken seriously.
And i'm not the only one who says this, a lot of people who have done more theological research also agree with this. Ahmed Ali, Shabir Ahmed and so on. Plus, if it is not connected, why then refer to the knife in your previous question? If you really believed it has no connection, why refer then to the knife in the story?
Again answer my question Prove it can mean chop/cut off the whole hand, prove Yad can only mean hand and prove 1231 is not connected with understanding 538.
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DanishNow the purpose of a knife is to cut/chop. How can a knife cut/chop an "ability or a resource" other than the hand as mentioned, please explain? Can you pick a knife and cut/chop somebody's "skills" or "knowledge"? If it doesn't sound silly, then what is?
This is what happens when you're the Prophet of Dung. You confuse the verb with the tool required to carry out the verb.
Look at 12/31
What's the verb here ? Qata'aa.What's the tool here? Sikkinan.
Do you see 'sikkinan' in 5/38, o Prophet?
THAT'S why it's not the same.
Al-quraan is kitaaban mutashabihan mathany (and no, 'mutashabihat' doesnt mean 'repeating'..LOL) and because of this, it uses the same structure UNLESS it means something else. That is also why the qisaas law shows that a like is for a like and thieving does not equate a hand.
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Peace,
No personal comments from both of you.
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Danish There's no 'yad' in both those verses but 'aydi' and both talk about cutting of hands. You are bringing and mixing in other verses having different scenarios. Listen man, I am done with your silly notions. Do me a favor, do some real theological research into these verses before mixing things up and getting yourself and others confused.
And this is the best that Danish can do. Trash-talk. He's unable to penetrate to the actual issue of the matter.
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You didn't answer my pervious question
Where is 'yad' in those verses (538 & 1231)? Lets settle this first. -
DanishNow the purpose of a knife is to cut/chop. How can a knife cut/chop an "ability or a resource" other than the hand as mentioned, please explain? Can you pick a knife and cut/chop somebody's "skills" or "knowledge"? If it doesn't sound silly, then what is?
This is what happens when you're the Prophet of Dung. You confuse the verb with the tool required to carry out the verb.
Look at 12/31
What's the verb here ? Qata'aa.What's the tool here? Sikkinan.
Do you see 'sikkinan' in 5/38, o Prophet?
THAT'S why it's not the same.
Al-quraan is kitaaban mutashabihan mathany (and no, 'mutashabihat' doesnt mean 'repeating'..LOL) and because of this, it uses the same structure UNLESS it means something else. That is also why the qisaas law shows that a like is for a like and thieving does not equate a hand.
O, here comes the SATAN, the PROPHET OF DOOM, once again disrupting and dislodging my discussion with Arnorld. >
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DanishO, here comes the SATAN, the PROPHET OF DOOM, once again disrupting and dislodging my discussion with Arnorld
It's gotta hurt being unable to answer all the time, huh Danish?
Your discussion with Arnold huh? Your 'discussion'..your DISCUSSION? Here it is
Listen man, I am done with your silly notions. Do me a favor, do some real theological research into these verses before mixing things up and getting yourself and others confused..Enquirer and yourself are of the same type. High-horse guys trying to 'liberate' people but when people present actual FACTS, you dismiss them without any reason.
You used to believe in AQ, right Danish? Why'd you quit? Your circle of friends didn't approve? I remember you quickly (not to mention PATHETICALLY) scurrying to allow pork because 'most people in the world eat it'. No wonder you quit AQ. You're after popular so PLEASE , don't tell us you're out to worship God.
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Arnold,
Before we move any further, once again answer this
Where is 'yad' in those verses (1231 & 53? -
Arnold,
The knife cuts the hands and henceforth abilities/resources/means to steal by those very hands gets cut off. The knife, the cut, the hands are all key words that weigh in. I never said anything about "whole" hand and neither do I mean an 'arm'. You are playing with words here. Just marking an hand doesn't cut off ones abilities. Besides Shabbir Ahmed, who talks about 'yad' which is never directly mentioned in those verses but exercises the aftermath as stated above, almost all other scholars agree with me including Ahmed Ali. So you are once again plainly wrong on both counts. Lastly, these were barbaric acts that happened prior to, during and after Muhammad's time (the jahilia period). Since you are studying theology, you must know this. If not, then do your own historical research.
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Aydi is the plural of Yad.............
yad n.f. (dual yadan, plural aydi) 266, 279, 279, 295, 297, 2195, 2237, 2249, 2255, 33, 326, 350, 373, 3182, 443, 462, 477, 491, 56, 511, 511, 528, 528, 533, 538, 546, 546, 548, 564, 564, 564, 594, 67, 692, 693, 717, 757, 7108, 7124, 7149, 7195, 851, 870, 914, 929, 952, 967, 1037, 1170, 1231, 1250, 12111, 1311, 149, 1729, 1857, 1964, 2022, 2071, 20110, 2128, 2210, 2276, 2388, 2424, 2440, 2527, 2548, 2633, 2649, 2712, 2763, 2832, 2847, 3036, 3041, 349, 3412, 3431, 3446, 3531, 369, 3635, 3645, 3665, 3671, 3683, 3844, 3875, 4114, 4125, 4142, 4230, 4248, 4621, 4630, 4810, 4810, 4820, 4824, 4824, 491, 5712, 5729, 5812, 5813, 592, 592, 602, 6012, 616, 627, 668, 671, 7227, 7840,
Ya-Dal-Ya = to touch, aid, do good, be beneficent, show power and superiority, a hand. By his agency/means.
With a willing hand, out of hand, having financial ability.In acknowledgement of the superior power, in ready money and not in the form of deferred payment, considering it as a favour, on account of help, (payment should be made by the hand of the parties themselves without the intervention of a third party and without reluctance.
baina yadaihi - before him, in his presence hit, between his two hands.ulill aidi - men of power (lit. gifted with hands)
suqaita fi aidihim (idiomatic expression) they repented, the idea seems to be that they hit their fingers in grief and contrition.Handy, Might, Power, Superiority, Benefit, Possession, Favour, Generosity. The idea behind those expressions is that the use of the hand is the real source of the superiority and power. Under his authority, upper hand, arm, foreleg of a beast, handle of a tool, wing of a bird.
ma qaddamat yada - that is what thou hast deserved.