You Have Been Warned

unknownuser

Peace
Sis Samia
I believe from using self referencing within Quran, Yakhsha means to fear, even the explanation of the skin crawling is associated with fear physically.
Allah gets into a dialogue with the People of the Scriptures who advocate Love of God, Allah responds that if they loved Him, why are they not following the guidance.
Furthermore, I think people are very uncomfortable with this idea of fear because they look at God in a very anthropomorphic way, ie through the filters that he should behave like us, and that scaring us is not fair, He should love us. With the associated connotations of pleasure associated with Love and the pain asscociated with Fear.
However that Fear is not acted upon by Allah (towards believers), it is just a mark of respect. Allah says that He is not respected the way He should be respected despite the Heavens and the Earths will be in the clutches of His Power on Doomsday.
Salam
Noble

Peace bro

Not fearing Allah is called ARROGANCE and the Quran told us clearly that Allah does not like those arrogant

their limited knowledge about Allah is the reason for sure, they can't think that FEARING Allah is also part of the test, the test is not believeing in Allah alone, it is believing in all what He said

Salam bro

unknownuser

Peace Ahmed, all,

I'm sure Kyle can speak for himself, but I just thought I'd point out that there is a difference between "fearing Allah" and "being motivated by the fear of Allah".

Peace Tay

Mate, this is confusing and very vague, motivated to do what exactly?, study, eat, travel, etc?. or motivated to believe in Allah?

If he meant the latest, then thanks for the laugh, a clear cut contradiction indeed for someone who says Mohammad never existed

In my understanding, al-qur'an speaks to both avenues. Some people are motivated by fear, some by love, most need both. At any rate, one can surely be motivated by love while still fearing the Almighty.

Peace,
Tay

Motivation has nothing to do with fearing Allah, I just don?t understand how the hell someone in total fear can be motivated to do anything?, it does NOT add up bro

Salam

unknownuser

Peace,

If you do a good deed because you fear you get punished by God if you don't do it, then you are not good by nature.

Brother Arnold

Allah does not punish for not doing the good, He punishes for doing the bad, but was a nice twist by you

Cheers

unknownuser

Salam,

My answer is i follow God's advice.The quran details a beautiful road map to life,and I just follow God's advice there how best to live and do good,the reward are a welcome consequential benefit,but the joy comes from obeying my creator,trusting his advice and following it.

Peace

Exactly, and please tell me bro, how simple you found the above simple?

cheers

unknownuser

Hello All

Let me show these verses before I take my daughter to school and head to work for a busy day

57 Verily those who live in awe for fear of their Lord;

58 Those who believe in the Signs of their Lord;

59 Those who join not (in worship) partners with their Lord;

60 And those who dispense their charity with their hearts full of fear, because they will return to their Lord;-

61 It is these who hasten in every good work, and these who are foremost in them.

(57)
(5
(59)
(60)
(61)

-> The above verses again describe the true believers, these beliebers who have NOTHING to be embarrassed of

57 Verily those who live in awe for fear of their Lord;
58 Those who believe in the Signs of their Lord;
59 Those who join not (in worship) partners with their Lord;
60 And those who dispense their charity with their hearts full of fear, because they will return to their Lord;-
61 It is these who hasten in every good work, and these who are foremost in them.

Now why those who do what is listed in 2,3,4, 5 be embarrassed of Allah as stated in 1?, see it does not make sense

The word Ikhtasha ?embarrassed? is totally different Arabic word that happens to have the ?Kha, Sheen and Ya?

Salam

noble

Peace
I cannot conceive of goodness without its opposite.
Goodness will be fully discriminated from Evilness after JD, but at the moment, my state is that I have to fight my Ego so that I keep on the side of what Allah wants me to be and do, which is Goodness according to His definition.
Straying from that is Evilness, and my Ego wants me badly to commit evil everyday.
This battle against the Ego is the Striving that Allah enjoins in the Quran, and one of the weapons He gave me is the fear oh His wrath.
Sanitising this and sugar coating it with drama queen kind of arguments such as being good at the core, and all, is nonsensical.
One is either striving towards good or towards evil, this is our lot on this planet, until we die and get ressurected...
This is the truth as plain as the eye can see and the ear can hear...
Salam
Noble

Elena

Peace AhmedBahgat

do you believe Jahannam is a physical place or not?

no, not a physical place.
I just know hell and heaven happen here and now in this life. I know nothing about other futur or past lives, I can't know.

Navid

Hello All

Let me show these verses before I take my daughter to school and head to work for a busy day

57 Verily those who live in awe for fear of their Lord;

58 Those who believe in the Signs of their Lord;

59 Those who join not (in worship) partners with their Lord;

60 And those who dispense their charity with their hearts full of fear, because they will return to their Lord;-

61 It is these who hasten in every good work, and these who are foremost in them.

(57)
(5
(59)
(60)
(61)

-> The above verses again describe the true believers, these beliebers who have NOTHING to be embarrassed of

57 Verily those who live in awe for fear of their Lord;
58 Those who believe in the Signs of their Lord;
59 Those who join not (in worship) partners with their Lord;
60 And those who dispense their charity with their hearts full of fear, because they will return to their Lord;-
61 It is these who hasten in every good work, and these who are foremost in them.

Now why those who do what is listed in 2,3,4, 5 be embarrassed of Allah as stated in 1?, see it does not make sense

The word Ikhtasha ?embarrassed? is totally different Arabic word that happens to have the ?Kha, Sheen and Ya?

Salam

Who said anything about embarrassed, though? Just wondering.

Peace

Tay

Peace Ahmed,

Here's an example

Dad(to son) You come home before it get's dark or else.
Son OK dad.

See, the son is motivated by the fear of Dad's wrath. People at certain jobs are motivated to produce and get to work on time based on the fear of losing their jobs. Children in school are motivated to stay out of trouble based on fear of getting suspended or expelled or their parents being called in.

a clear cut contradiction indeed for someone who says Mohammad never existed

Quote where I ever said this, or stand corrected.

Motivation has nothing to do with fearing Allah, I just don?t understand how the hell someone in total fear can be motivated to do anything?, it does NOT add up bro

It adds up perfectly Ahmed. There is positive reinforcement, and there is negative reinforcement, and both can be found in plenty within al-qur'an.

Peace,
Tay

unknownuser

Hello All

Let me show these verses before I take my daughter to school and head to work for a busy day

57 Verily those who live in awe for fear of their Lord;

58 Those who believe in the Signs of their Lord;

59 Those who join not (in worship) partners with their Lord;

60 And those who dispense their charity with their hearts full of fear, because they will return to their Lord;-

61 It is these who hasten in every good work, and these who are foremost in them.

(57)
(5
(59)
(60)
(61)

-> The above verses again describe the true believers, these beliebers who have NOTHING to be embarrassed of

57 Verily those who live in awe for fear of their Lord;
58 Those who believe in the Signs of their Lord;
59 Those who join not (in worship) partners with their Lord;
60 And those who dispense their charity with their hearts full of fear, because they will return to their Lord;-
61 It is these who hasten in every good work, and these who are foremost in them.

Now why those who do what is listed in 2,3,4, 5 be embarrassed of Allah as stated in 1?, see it does not make sense

The word Ikhtasha embarrassed is totally different Arabic word that happens to have the Kha, Sheen and Ya

Salam

Who said anything about embarrassed, though? Just wondering.

Peace

Peace OM

It was sister Samia trying to imply the word Khashia is sort of like Ikhtasha, as if both from the same 3 letters root "Kha Sheen Ya"

Salam

unknownuser

Peace AhmedBahgat

do you believe Jahannam is a physical place or not?

no, not a physical place.
I just know hell and heaven happen here and now in this life. I know nothing about other futur or past lives, I can't know.

Ok sister

now how you justify the many verses descibing hell in details by Allah?

please i'm looking for a firm/logical answer not a shakey/illogoical one

cheers

unknownuser

Peace Ahmed,

Salam Tay,

Here's an example

Dad(to son) You come home before it get's dark or else.
Son OK dad.

Are you serious mate?

See, the son is motivated by the fear of Dad's wrath.

I?m sorry bro, this is anything but the truth because your Tom and Jerry example is flawed, the above has nothing to do with motivating the child, in fact the child will be pissed off if he hears the above from his dad, the above is a clear cut warning from the father to the son, an example of motivation is like this

Dad(to son) You pass the high school with high marks and I will buy you a car.
Son Wow dad, you are the best,

See the difference bro, that is what I call motivation

Now Allah motivated us to do good for others, but I believe He never encouraged us to believe in Him, in fact He told us ?Mn Shaa Fa LiYumin Wa Mn Shaa Fa Li Yakfur?, i.e. ?It is up to us to believe or not if we desire?, however He told us that His laws is , if you meet Him while you are Kafir then you will be doomed, no encouragement here it is a crime with its corresponding punishment as any crime that is dealt with

Please don?t tell me that we are encouraged to not to steal because of the fear of going to jail, of course not, we are fearing not to steal because of the associated fear of going to jail, however the logic and the norms is not to steal, and that does not need any encouragement, it is not like the government will create a law that anyone who is not stealing will be rewarded with such and such, your example is very flawed man

People at certain jobs are motivated to produce and get to work on time based on the fear of losing their jobs.

Come on bro, don?t show signs of desperation to find a logical example, the above is flawed again, people are only motivated at work if they are promised higher positions or higher wages, not bloody fearing to loose the job, this is a not very clever twist bro

Children in school are motivated to stay out of trouble based on fear of getting suspended or expelled or their parents being called in.

Or your examples are flawed, because motivation needs rewards, not the bloody norms that should happen, like staying out of troubles, now do the teacher reward them for staying out of trouble?, if so then I will call this a motivation, not bloody fearing to be kicked out of school

a clear cut contradiction indeed for someone who says Mohammad never existed

Quote where I ever said this, or stand corrected.

Not you for sure, it was about another member(s), sorry

Motivation has nothing to do with fearing Allah, I just dont understand how the hell someone in total fear can be motivated to do anything?, it does NOT add up bro

It adds up perfectly Ahmed. There is positive reinforcement, and there is negative reinforcement, and both can be found in plenty within al-qur'an.

Peace,
Tay

Bro, if you will talk Quran then please bring the verses with you to prove your point

And I insist again all your examples are flawed because there was no reward associated with what you call motivation, also you are motivated to do what you have the choice to do/not, like to study or not, with the belief in Allah, we actually have no choice but to believe because He only created us for that reason and the punishment for that crime was stated clearly, therefore you can?t mix the belief in Allah and the punishment for not doing so as matter of motivation because Allah does not need to motivate us to believe in Him, He only motivates us to do the good for others and there will be rewards for that, there will be no punishment though for NOT doing the good to others as long as they believe in Allah and they never harmed any human.

Salam

Samia

Salam Samia

Can you please translate the following to us " "

Salam

Salaam Ahmed

I do not understand what you mean. I said it is difficult to translate it, but the only word to translate it is "to fear", with a different understanding. I am lucky I read it in Arabic, no need to have it translated, and I understand it the way I understand this special verb. Other non-native speakers understand it correctly by feeling What Allah means to them.

If you are referring to what I said that this verb is specific to Allah, I was talking about the spoken Arabic. When I read this verse, I understand that "fearing" people here is not the normal "fear" from a bully or a madman, but a fear that amounts to "shirk". Allah here is not asking me not to fear a robber attacking me. Do you know what I mean by a difference between "fear" and "fear"?

Peace OM

It was sister Samia trying to imply the word Khashia is sort of like Ikhtasha, as if both from the same 3 letters root "Kha Sheen Ya"

In fact half of this is true (the root part). I did not say "it is sort of like iktasha". There is always a common meaning, even remote, between the derived verbs (derived from the same root). If we agree that iktasha means feel ashamed, then yakhsha would have some kind of this. Here, we also "fear" Allah for all His mercy and the grace he pours on us. So when he commands us, it is not the fear of torture, (or should not be) that motivates us. It is the embarrassement that with all his generousity with us, we disobey Him when He asks forom us trivial things.

I would tell this real story. When I was a student, one of our colleagues used to take Islaam very lightly; he drank, smoked dope; never paryed or fasted...you know that. Years later, I was on a plane and he was the pilot or co-pilot. We recalled some of the memories of our students' life. Then it was the time for prayer, and he excused me to go and pray in the cockpit. I was very surprised. When he returned, he was smiling and said Yes I know your questions. I got married and was blessed with two wonderful kids. Every time a kid fell sick, I would pray "ad3u" Alaah to make him well. And he would become well. Even in more serious situations, my du3aa' was met. I was then very ashamed of Allah, and I said to myself that I was really a shameless, ungrateful person . I immediately gave up drinking, smoking and started observing my duties as Allah asked me.

This friend of mine definitely knew about hell and fire, but he was not aware of Allah's love for him.

Elena

Peace AhmedBahgat

I just know hell and heaven happen here and now in this life. I know nothing about other futur or past lives, I can't know.

now how you justify the many verses descibing hell in details by Allah?

they are describing things that happen in this life, fire, lave, burnt skin, rough keepers, arguments, wish of escaping or dying, desperation, thirst, things known and experienced in this world, they are things of this life.

please i'm looking for a firm/logical answer not a shakey/illogoical one

well, we can ask but the answers might be not what we want to hear.

unknownuser

Salam Samia

Can you please translate the following to us " "

Salam

Salaam Ahmed

Salam Sister

I do not understand what you mean. I said it is difficult to translate it, but the only word to translate it is "to fear"

Sister, the quran used the word many times, and in all times it was translated as ?to fear?, now you are introducing new meaning that is not ?to fear?, we would like an example from the Quran

Yes there are other words to describe what is less than fear

, with a different understanding.

and why you want a different understanding if the use of the word was exhausted in the Quran, can?t you use the Quran to find out what it means?

I am lucky I read it in Arabic, no need to have it translated,

Please do it for the public who don?t read Arabic

and I understand it the way I understand this special verb.

and why it is a special verb?

Other non-native speakers understand it correctly by feeling What Allah means to them.

How did you know that? Also I?m not aware that understanding words depends on how we feel, hmmmm, is that really true?

If you are referring to what I said that this verb is specific to Allah,

Sorry why you say it is specific to Allah?, the verb was used by Allah with humans as well

I was talking about the spoken Arabic.

Yep, that is what I was talking about too

When I read this verse, I understand that "fearing" people here is not the normal "fear" from a bully or a madman, but a fear that amounts to "shirk".

Oh come on, If we fear Allah that does not mean He is a bully or a madman, why you want to make Him a human?

Allah here is not asking me not to fear a robber attacking me.

Of course He didn't ask you to fear a robber, He asked not to fear the people and fear Him

Do you know what I mean by a difference between "fear" and "fear"?

No I don?t, ?fear? and ?fear? sound and look the same to me

It was sister Samia trying to imply the word Khashia is sort of like Ikhtasha, as if both from the same 3 letters root "Kha Sheen Ya"

In fact half of this is true (the root part).

So what you are saying that ?ikhtasha? has a root of ?Kha Sha Ya??, well I guess you need your Arabic lessons again, I?m telling you sister ?Ikhtasha? is the root of ?Ikhtasha?, and is those words that are called ?Jamidda? and is 5 letters root, like ?Izdahara? ? ?

I did not say "it is sort of like iktasha".

And why you are trying to link it to a word that was never mentioned in the Quran?

There is always a common meaning, even remote, between the derived verbs (derived from the same root).

Unfortunately for you, Kashya is three letters root, and Ikhtasha is 5 letters root, so you are basing your conclusion on the wrong data

If we agree that iktasha means feel ashamed, then yakhsha would have some kind of this.

LOL, well, wrong data that you are injecting indeed

Here, we also "fear" Allah for all His mercy and the grace he pours on us. So when he commands us, it is not the fear of torture,

Why torture, can?t He just eliminate us with the word BE, no torture is involved?

(or should not be) that motivates us.

motivate us to do what exactly, be good to the others?

It is the embarrassement that with all his generousity with us, we disobey Him when He asks forom us trivial things.

Really?, look sister you have a serious problem indeed, I found you that you insist on the wrong understanding trying hard to inject it without any support from the Quran, and this is not healthy indeed

I would tell this real story. When I was a student, one of our colleagues used to take Islaam very lightly; he drank, smoked dope; never paryed or fasted...you know that. Years later, I was on a plane and he was the pilot or co-pilot. We recalled some of the memories of our students' life. Then it was the time for prayer, and he excused me to go and pray in the cockpit. I was very surprised. When he returned, he was smiling and said Yes I know your questions. I got married and was blessed with two wonderful kids. Every time a kid fell sick, I would pray "ad3u" Alaah to make him well. And he would become well. Even in more serious situations, my du3aa' was met. I was then very ashamed of Allah, and I said to myself that I was really a shameless, ungrateful person . I immediately gave up drinking, smoking and started observing my duties as Allah asked me.

Nice story sister however it seems to me that that guy is corrupt, he only worshipped Allah when Allah saved his kids, so it is irrelevant to our discussion because doing the Salat and all these sort of practices do not really mean that we fear Allah, it only means that we worship Him

This friend of mine definitely knew about hell and fire, but he was not aware of Allah's love for him.

Well, that is where you and the likes of you are confused, fearing Allah has nothing to do with fearing Hell, these are two different entities indeed

Here is an example

8- And as to him who comes to you striving hard,
9- And with fear (in his heart),
10- From him will you divert yourself.

(
(9)
(10)

-> Sure you know the above verses, now I can?t see how that blind man who was striving hard to Allah ? And as to him who comes to you striving hard,?, was feeling embarrassed as 809 is telling us ? ??, can you please tell us what do you think?

And finally here is a logical point for you, if Allah is teaching us ?Not to feel embarrassed from other people?, ?La Takhshu Al Nas?, would you consider that this is a bad teaching?, the logic says so, because we should feel shame from the people if we do something wrong in front of them

Salam

Elke

Salaam ahmed

Actually i never said that, all I said supporting someone who claims that Mohammad was not real will make YOUR ISLAM questionable, not by me but by Allah, as He told us in te Quran that Mohammad was a real person as all other prohets were and guess what?, a Muslim should believe in that

I do believe the prophet was a real person, but i also do believe that there are many layers of understanding of the quran, which IMO was exactly what God intended.

No about the looking at yourself from far away ), ok stay close, but try to do it by analysing your feelings from a non emontional point of view, not taking into consideration only your (and others peoples) goals, intentions and feelings, but the facts ... can be very helpful and not only in religious matters . But this is OT i guess.

lk

unknownuser

Peace AhmedBahgat

Peace Elena

they are describing things that happen in this life, fire, lave, burnt skin, rough keepers, arguments, wish of escaping or dying, desperation, thirst, things known and experienced in this world, they are things of this life.

come on sister, this is what you and the likes of you say, Allah never said that

so where is the tree of Zaqum fits in life exactly with you?

And how the hell will be asked by Allah ?are you filled? then the hell will respond ?Not yet, is there is any more?? fits in this life for you?

please i'm looking for a firm/logical answer not a shakey/illogoical one

well, we can ask but the answers might be not what we want to hear.

I did asked and sure your answer was not firm neither logical, just the used by date conjectures

Thanks

unknownuser

Hello Samia

We read the following in 5921

YUSUFALI Had We sent down this Qur'an on a mountain, verily, thou wouldst have seen it humble itself and cleave asunder for fear of Allah. Such are the similitudes which We propound to men, that they may reflect.

PICKTHAL If We had caused this Qur'an to descend upon a mountain, thou (O Muhammad) verily hadst seen it humbled, rent asunder by the fear of Allah. Such similitudes coin We for mankind that haply they may reflect.

SHAKIR Had We sent down this Quran on a mountain, you would certainly have seen it falling down, splitting asunder because of the fear of Allah, and We set forth these parables to men that they may reflect.

(21)

-> Can you please explain to us

How the mountains will be embarrassed from Allah?
If the 3 translators above got it wrong translating the word ?Khashia??

Thanks

unknownuser

Salam Elke

I do believe the prophet was a real person,

I?m really glad to hear that from you.

but i also do believe that there are many layers of understanding of the quran, which IMO was exactly what God intended.

Absolutely fine with me AS LONG AS no contradiction will be created in Allah words.

No about the looking at yourself from far away ), ok stay close, but try to do it by analysing your feelings from a non emontional point of view, not taking into consideration only your (and others peoples) goals, intentions and feelings, but the facts ... can be very helpful and not only in religious matters . But this is OT i guess.

lk

I do it it every day indeed however I only do it not through my feelings via a non emotional point of view rather what Allah said to do and what I have done for the day, very simple indeed, I can trust Allah through His words to judge my actions but I can?t trust myself judging my actions.

Salam

jonny_k

Peace bro "Arnold" and all,

Peace,

If you do a good deed because you fear you get punished by God if you don't do it, then you are not good by nature. If you do a good deed because of the reward, then again you are not good by nature. Your motivations for the deed are not doing good for the sake of good itself, but out of fear of being punished or missing the reward. So without the punishment you would have not done good, and without the reward you would not have done good. And by thus you are not good by nature.

If a person doesn't do an evil deed because he fears the punishment, then again he is not good by nature, as without the punishment he would have done the evil deed. If a person doesn't do an evil deed because he fears of missing the reward for not doing it, again he is not motivated by being good, but by missing the reward. So without the punishment he would have done evil, and without the reward he would have done evil. These people are no better then dogs, without a treat or punishment they will not listen. They are motivated by fear or greed. Does this make good muslims? No, as the core of such a persons soul is not based on a good nature.

I do good because i understand the nature of doing good. I do good without fear or greed, without need for a reward or fear of punishment. That in the end God will reward for me it, is again showing God is the most Mercifull, the Provider, but because my motivation is for the sake of good itself, my soul is pure, as i'm the same with a reward or punishment as i'm without them. That every deed has a certain result is God's law, His yaumwedeen, the Era of Judgement and Order which is at work all the time.

You have to question yourself, by what are you motivated? And more especially If there were no reward or punishment, would you have still done good, would you have still obeyed God? Answer this question and you will understand the core of your being, the motivator of all your deeds.....

Peace

JK- I believe we had a long debate on this at
http//19.org/forum/index.php/t/5847/0/
Ill just quote the most crucial pt which yet remains to be answered
2.Why would i do something if i know that it doesnt benefit me at some point or the other if that goes against my wishes?

You(Arnold Yasin) wrote

If good goes against your wishes, you have to check yourself on who you are and what you stand for. And i don't mind if i get benefit from the good deed or not, as the deed itself rewarded me.

I(Jonny K) replied

JK- Explain to me how the deed rewards you bro? Ill just list two possibilities

GOD is happy with you now. Ok so you reeived the mercy of GOD which ultinately leads to an incredible good feeling. So it is because of this feeling that it is done. Let me make it clear. When you ride various rides in a theme park you do it because of the great feeling, right? Now in the presence of GOD youll surely have all those feeelings and much more put together so it is worth doing the good deed.
It just feels good. Well a quite irrational argument but then again you did it because of your feeling. Now what if you felt bad after doing something which has observably been found out to be good by the society? Think about that one.

GOD Bless!