Wings?
-
Pickthall - Praise be to Allah, the Creator of the heavens and the earth, Who appointeth the angels messengers having wings two, three and four. He multiplieth in creation what He will. Lo! Allah is Able to do all things.
Yusuf Ali - Praise be to God, Who created (out of nothing) the heavens and the earth, Who made the angels, apostles with wings, - two, or three, or four (pairs) He adds to Creation as He pleases for God has power over all things.
Hilali-Khan - All the praises and thanks be to Allah, the (only) Originator of the heavens and the earth, Who made the angels messengers with wings, - two or three or four. He increases in creation what He wills. Verily, Allah is Able to do all things.
Shakir - All praise is due to Allah, the Originator of the heavens and the earth, the Maker of the angels, apostles flying on wings, two, and three, and four; He increases in creation what He pleases; surely Allah has power over all things.
Sher Ali - All praise belongs to ALLAH, the originator of the heavens and the earth, Who employs the angels as Messengers, having wings, two, three, and four. HE adds to HIS creation whatever HE pleases; for ALLAH has power over all things.
Khalifa - Praise be to GOD, Initiator of the heavens and the earth, and appointer of the angels to be messengers with wings - two, three, and four (wings). He increases the creation as He wills. GOD is Omnipotent.
Arberry - Praise belongs to God, Originator of the heavens and earth, who appointed the angels to be messengers having wings two, three and four, increasing creation as He wills. Surely God is powerful over everything.
Palmer - Praise belongs to God, the originator of the heavens and the earth; who makes the angels His messengers, endued with wings in pairs, or threes or fours; He adds to creation what He Pleases; verily, God is mighty over all!
Rodwell - PRAISE be to God, Maker of the Heavens and of the Earth! Who employeth the ANGELS as envoys, with pairs of wings, two, three, and four He addeth to his creature what He will! Truly God hath power for all things.
Sale - Praise be unto God, the creator of heaven and earth; who maketh the angels messengers, furnished with two, and three, and four of wings God maketh what addition he pleaseth unto creatures; for God almighty.
Transliterated Arabic - Alhamdu lillahi fatiri alssamawati waal-ardi jaAAili almala-ikati rusulan olee ajnihatin mathna wathulatha warubaAAa yazeedu fee alkhalqi ma yashao inna Allaha AAala kulli shay-in qadeerun
I don't really believe in angels having physical forms and therefore I assume this is a metaphor. But how should one translate that sentence wherein God mentions to have angels as messengers with (two, three or four) wings?
peace
Latifah
-
Peace be upon you.
From the physical sense, that could mean that there are different hierarchies within the angels, or that they are just as diverse as we are.
For example, I believe that the seraphims have 6 wings. As far as the validity of that, I am not sure. Angeology could help in this matter just to increase your knowledge, but keep in mind that it is not mentioned in the Quran. They are mentioned in the Bible however.
I have not checked this link, but it may help http//www.letusreason.org/Doct20.htm
Wa Salaam
-
What is a wing? And if an Angel is an energetic being made fundamentally of light then perhaps these wings do something similar to the wings of birds but on a spiritual level or perhaps for the usage of travelling from heaven to heaven.
For example, I believe that the seraphims have 6 wings. As far as the validity of that, I am not sure. Angeology could help in this matter just to increase your knowledge, but keep in mind that it is not mentioned in the Quran. They are mentioned in the Bible however.
And Salam Muslim,
Are you referring to ones depicted in Middle Eastern architecture? As it is indeed very interesting, did you know that the Sumerians also had the belief of seven heavens? Some argue this proves Islam's inherited doctrines, but they lack further knowledge and facts to come to the conclusion that these peoples were told similar things to what we have been told in the Qur'an from the Almighty.
-
Peace Al Quraishi,
I wasnt talking about Middle Eastern architechture, but about what I have read on the Seraphims. For example in the bible I believe that Ibliz was a cherubim (?) and not a seraphim. Also from other research I have read that Seraphims are the highest order of angels that praise God at the throne (although I dont think it is a biblical statement? forgive me).
Isaiah 6
1 In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of his robe filled the temple. 2 Above him were seraphs, each with six wings With two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying. 3 And they were calling to one another
"Holy, holy, holy is the LORD Almighty;
the whole earth is full of his glory."4 At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook and the temple was filled with smoke.
5 "Woe to me!" I cried. "I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the LORD Almighty."
6 Then one of the seraphs flew to me with a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with tongs from the altar. 7 With it he touched my mouth and said, "See, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away and your sin atoned for."
also check wikipedia here http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherubim
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SeraphimAs far as the middle eastern thing goes, it just sparked something that I have thought of for awhile. I am going to make a new topic on it, thanks.
-
Peace,
Iblis means 'someone frustrated/desperate' and in the Quran it is used for our destructive side, it is not another name for shaytan as shaytan comes from shaat which means long rope and refers to deeds, thoughts, states of mind that are distanced from progress, goodness and Allah. That is why people can be called a shaytan, someone distanced from Allah, but not an Iblis, as Iblis is a side of man, it is like saying a man is an arm or a leg. Jinn in the Quran doesn't refer to one thing, but means 'something hidden/concealed/rarely seen' and is used for hundreds of things, it is not a title of some sort of invisible spirit as the tradition tries to explain. See my article on jinn at the link below.
As for the wings. Tair for example doesn't mean exactly Bird, but is used for fast/fleetfooted animals, and not specifically just winged animals. So it was also used for horses and cavalery. In Classic Arabic the term wings was thus a description of speed and great capability and not just a term for real bird-wings. People later, mostly Christians, Persians and Jews, mixed it up with the Greek-Persian messengers of the Mythology. Nike, a winged messenger of the gods, was blindly copied into the Greek-Roman Triniterian Christianity as it was already part of their culture and theology. This later on was also assimilated into Islam and has since then totally misled and blinded the term malikah, which literally means someone/thing in control and authority, and not angel. In the Quran it is used for forces of nature and rulers of lands or communities or messengers of Allah, and is just like jinn not a title of one species alone.
The verse looks and understands more like this
Praise be to Allah, the Creator of the heavens and the earth, Who appointeth the ones in control, messengers having wings (forces of great speed and capability) two, three and four(multiple ways of executing their obligations). He multiplieth in creation what He will. Lo! Allah is Able to do all things.
-
Peace be upon you,
Also, in this reading(quran), there is a verse that says teh human should "lower its wing" to the parents, or something to that effect, so if wings are literal we should all be able to fly ;D
-
Peace be upon all,
Wow, I didn't know there were so many different interpretations of the Quran. Arnold, does that mean that you do not believe in Satan (as in the fallen angel)?
Peace,
No i don't because the Quran doesn't refer to that. Malikah means something in control and authority and is not a title of a species but a description of a quality. Please read my Jinn article, see the link at the bottom, it will explain everything. Islam has been totaly infected and taken over by Persian-Jewish mythology and people have lost and ignored the Arabic that is used.
-
Now thats the 64 million dollar question amuslim!!!!!!!! bravo bravo bravo bravo
-
Islam has been totaly infected and taken over by Persian-Jewish mythology and people have lost and ignored the Arabic that is used.
This one specially caught my attention and threw me off-guard. The Quran has been for many years and more recently being infected by latest "viruses and bacteria" (innovations) that even history is embarrassed.
-
Yes danish,The new wave of re-inventing the quran through lingustics and pseudo science...Surely with gods book it should be the other way around,With the book supposed to be clear and scientific there shouldnt be any need for re-interpretation.....And folks are implying that the historical muhammed knew absolutely nothing about the quran,as his views are totally different to guys like arnie and others......History must then be totally invalid,a very scary thought indeed...
ps; can folks show me how history has got it so wrong,some proof would be appreciated...
pps; some of these interpretations have never been seen in the whole history of islam,so how come the early generations got it so wrong,and where is the recorded early history of the application of these new interpretations?? You cant say god waited 1400 years to reveal the meaning of the basic verses of the book like how to implement the lashings verse???!!! -
peace enquirer
Insert Quote
Yes danish,The new wave of re-inventing the quran through lingustics and pseudo science...Surely with gods book it should be the other way around,With the book supposed to be clear and scientific there shouldnt be any need for re-interpretation.....And folks are implying that the historical muhammed knew absolutely nothing about the quran,as his views are totally different to guys like arnie and others......History must then be totally invalid,a very scary thought indeed...
ps; can folks show me how history has got it so wrong,some proof would be appreciated...
pps; some of these interpretations have never been seen in the whole history of islam,so how come the early generations got it so wrong,and where is the recorded early history of the application of these new interpretations?? You cant say god waited 1400 years to reveal the meaning of the basic verses of the book like how to implement the lashings verse???!!!I think you should read some of Ayman's articles concerning the history and use of words. As far as I know, the definitions people are using here come from classical arabic dictionaries. They give you the meanings of the words as they were used 1400 years ago.
So the "official" history of islam is proven wrong by looking at the use of these words and the way they are used in historical texts like the Hadith (I saw an article on FFI about how islam began in Persia, and not in Arabia because of the coins that some historian found. But I think the grammar of the quran is enough).
History is written by the winners. A good example is the history if North America. In school, we read a lot about the Puritans and the founding of New England and the May Flower and the all the other crap. But we never read about the Spanish who were there hundreds of years before. Nothing. We don't even learn about the American Natives who's culture got raped by these great Englishmen.
History is not science, my friend. It's not reliable. UNLIKE our reasoning skills (as long as we're willing to use them.)
I think if you'd look at the interpretations of some people here with an open mind you will find that they aren't baseless. You will find that even if the quran isn't some perfect book, it does contain some timeless guidance that we can all benefit from. -
Easy one risen from the ashes...The dictionaries are history as well my good friend,otherwise how did they know how arabic was spoken 1400 years ago???!!! I agree some wisdom is found in the quran,but some wisdom is also found in the sun newspaper!!! And what is the quran if not an account of history???? what if the dictionaries and scriptures were written by the 'winners' from arabian history,and so may be untrue and biased???? Tell me phoenix??? yay group elektro
ps; is history linguistically related to HIS-STORY?? Kyle style!! muscle peace handshake O0 sun -
peace enq,
dictionaries are not histories in the way that they don't care about what happened according to historical accounts. It's based on facts (and I could be wrong) not hearsay (like the much of history).
But even if you do consider it history, then you have a choice of which history to follow. And it's good to see some people here are making the right one.
The quran, according to itself, is NOT a history book. Only people who don't understand it call it a book with "ancient tales."
So the dictionaries might be biased (although it doesn't seem that way to me), but truth is that which we can verify.
So even IF (notice that the "if" is pretty big) the quran is a "neutral" book. Meaning it can have equally valid good and bad interpretations, then you can't really attack it or refute it's message, can you? We can only debate on interpretations. -
Peace Arnold,
Thanks for sharing that. Thats a deep analysis of the scripture. Do you consider it fact or just your own interpretation?
Peace
Peace,
It is just simple linguistics. It is pure Arabic that was transformed over the years. When you take ancient dictionaries, they say the same thing as me. I'm certainly not the first and only one who says this. The problem is that the main-stream Islam totaly ignores these scholars because they were rational and didn't pursue superstition and mythology. The only thing i did was take this ignored knowledge back into the main-stream.
-
Yes danish,The new wave of re-inventing the quran through lingustics and pseudo science...Surely with gods book it should be the other way around,With the book supposed to be clear and scientific there shouldnt be any need for re-interpretation.....And folks are implying that the historical muhammed knew absolutely nothing about the quran,as his views are totally different to guys like arnie and others......History must then be totally invalid,a very scary thought indeed...
ps; can folks show me how history has got it so wrong,some proof would be appreciated...
pps; some of these interpretations have never been seen in the whole history of islam,so how come the early generations got it so wrong,and where is the recorded early history of the application of these new interpretations?? You cant say god waited 1400 years to reveal the meaning of the basic verses of the book like how to implement the lashings verse???!!!Peace,
Because History was written down 200 years after Muhammed, and by people who had political reasons to write down what they did. Why do you think such a simple people suddenly conquered half the world in less time then the romans with the same weapons? Because they were motivated by the Quran as it is not a religious book or a book of blind worship, it is a constitution for humanity and want to drive people to obtain the best in this world. later on through Jewish, Christian, Persian and Pagan theology interpretation, they changed the Quran into a worship book by saying that the Quran is about prayer and the afterlife only. So the History you are refering to doesn't give a clear picture. Muhammed fought for the rights of freedom and equality, this is to be seen throughout his whole struggle. But these History writers later on made us think he was only busy praying and not doing any action. They tried to overshadow the real history with a made-up one. Now we are busy with distuingishing the right from the wrong, as not all what they wrote down is false. Holding blindly onto History is ignorant, totaly rejecting it also. What we know for certain is Muhammed's ongoing struggle for freedom and equality, and this is the main message of the Quran, human-rights. So my interpretation doesn't contradict history at all.