Wings?
-
Salam All,
Both jinn and human in Islam are created mortals. Iblis fall was not due to the fact that he temped Adam, as in Christianity, but rather he disobeyed God's command. Iblis request his Rabb to allow him to tempt humans. And God replied that you can tempt all, but my abd(s) you cannot tempt. Iblis tempts Adam by telling him that the tree is of immortality and that Adam will become like angels (immortal), which was a sham. God casts them out both from the garden with adversary between them and promise them that His guidance will come to them. Adam repents and God accepts his repentance.
According to my earlier quote, "Iblis probably is a non-entity by now."
Now to some unfortunate thing, which has confused most people on this site
002.030 Behold, thy Lord said to the angels "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said "I know what ye know not."
Al-Qur'an, 002.030 (Al-Baqara )
Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.9
The Arabic for the phrase, "vicegerent on earth" is "khalifa on earth". The accepted meaning for the khalifa by all Muslims (Sunni, Shia, Ibada....) is that it represent human. All Muslims believe that God meant human to be His representative on earth.
Unfortunately, one of the so called Muslim site claims the following.
The word 'Khalifa' in Arabic means 'representative'. And in the verse context, the 'Khalifa' is Satan. God appointed Satan as a representative on earth for a limited time (until he becomes a guest in Hell forever). Therefore, by God's will, he is allowed to rule his followers among the disbelievers. On the other hand, he has no power over the believers, as God has decreed in the verse .
The above doesn't represent the Muslims understanding of the word, "Khalifa". This is very intentional and misleading interruption of the word, "khalifa" by saying that Satan is God's Khalifa on earth and that Satan is a "temporary god" on earth.
Also, Muslims believe that God rules both heavens and hell. In Christianity Lucifer is the King of Hell.
Hope this helpful,
Mohamed
-
Peace,
Arabic and Hebrew have the same origin AND age, but developed in different areas, so be carefull not to mix up these two to much. But indeed you must now Aramic and Hebrew to gain a larger insight.
-
Should I treat all Classical Arabic dictionaries as 'Allah's' words and believe that the same word Shaitaan never existed in other languages such as Hebrew and therefore, take it as granted? I'm sure that Classical Arabic, as one of the Semitic languages, also has several meanings of each word. Shaitaan being derived from shaat to mean "long rope" is quite a stretch and has no connection.
http//www.psyche.com/psyche/lex/shaitan.html
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaitan
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SatanShould I treat all Classical Arabic dictionaries as 'Allah's' words...
I would say, rather, that Allah used arabic and the dictionaries define the words he used.
voodoo
....and believe that the same word Shaitaan never existed in other languages such as Hebrew
Actually the same word is used in Hebrew and in the Torah and in Psalms. Strong's numbers 07853 and 07854. (Numbers 2222, 2232; Psalms 3820, 7113, 1094, 10920, 10929.....there are other references in Zechariah, Samuel 1, Samuel 2, Kings 1, Chronicles 1, and Job).
You see, Arnab, you broke my sentence into half before and after the "and" in bold above, thereby misunderstanding what I said. This is one of many reasons what people have done to Quranic verses.
Shaitaan being derived from shaat to mean "long rope" is quite a stretch and has no connection.
Actually I would say that a shaitan is an adversary as the definition stays the same through out the languages. I wouldn't say that there is "no connection" but at this time I don't see a solid connection. The argument used earlier that the word can mean distant from Allah might even work too. If one is being adverse to God's laws, for example, that person could be considered distant from God.
It has nothing to do with rope, unless someone wants to deliberately force its meaning. People in those days who distant themselves from The God of the Meccans, obviously became their fierce adversaries and were called shaitaan or evildoers. Ropes may have been used to drag, whip and hang the ennemies or those who resisted their submissions. But the terminology and etymology of Satan or Evil predates Islam, signifying such gods (the reason I gave those links above).
-
Peace,
Arabic and Hebrew have the same origin AND age, but developed in different areas, so be carefull not to mix up these two to much. But indeed you must now Aramic and Hebrew to gain a larger insight.
Salam,
I absolutely agree arnoldasin.Sorry about breaking your sentence apart Danish. Just wanted to point out that shaitan roughly means adversary in hebrew as well. I was actually supporting your sentence. It was broken up because I had two different points to make...which is why I added the complete quote at the top so that someone reading it would see that I broke up the sentence to add my comments.
I also wanted to contribute that sometimes there is a downfall in saying that a meaning of a word "has no connection." I try not to do dismiss possible root meanings but keep them in the back of my mind. I've been surprised by a lot of words and their definitions.Salam
-
voodoo
You see, Arnab, you broke my sentence into half before and after the "and" in bold above, thereby misunderstanding what I said. This is one of many reasons what people have done to Quranic verses.
It has nothing to do with rope, unless someone wants to deliberately force its meaning. People in those days who distant themselves from The God of the Meccans, obviously became their fierce adversaries and were called shaitaan or evildoers. Ropes may have been used to drag, whip and hang the enemies or those who resisted their submissions. But the terminology and etymology of Satan or Evil predates Islam, signifying such gods (the reason I gave those links above).Salam All,
Excellent my friend Danish, I couldn't agree with you more. Since satan means adversary, which is a noun and/or adjective, and it is not a name, meaning satan is not a proper noun then I prefer to write satan with a small 's', rather than capital 'S'. Of course, this in my personal preference, because writhing satan with a capital 'S' or writing evil with a capital 'E', gives people who are not familiar with the Hebrew root a wrong impression of satan. The Semitic languages don't have capital and small letters.
I hope I am not picking on you, it is just my personal preference! >D
My mistake, I see you have used the small letters for satan and evil too. I have highlighted this in your quote in green color.
Mohamed
-
Peace,
Mohammed, you focussed on one thing i said and ignored my whole message. Jinn is not a title of a species, so to believe jinns were created before the humans is non-quranic. Also the idea that malikah are some high creatures is also non-quranic. You hold on to fixed titles for your explanation and thus create a false idea of the Quranic message.
This is all non-Quranic as it is all based on fixed meanings of words. The meanings of the words are non-Quranic
Nowhere does it say that Iblis was God's best abd. Nor does the term Iblis refer to abd. Sujood in arabic means prostrate as well as obeying. Malikah means something in control and authority and is also no fixed meaning of one species. In classic arabic it was used for powerfull humans and kings, forces of nature and higher beings. Adam comes from adami and means humankind. Iblis comes from balasa and means something frustrated. So it doesn't say at all that iblis was a jinn and he refused to bow down for adam with the angels. It says
Salaam arnoldyasin,
Thanks my friend and this is the beauty of Islam that it allows us to discuss things about it without being threatened. I guess we all, you, Danish, Arnab and I are saying the same thing about the misguided concept of dualism but in a different way. To me and I might be wrong that the biggest threat presently to mankind is the theory of Rapture.
God tells us in Koran he created everything in pairs especially in Sura ar-Rahman, so jinn and human are pair, day and night are pair, zauj and zaujah are pair. He tells us that we shouldn't be looking at the pair and comparing which is better of the two. Is night better than the day or the other way round. He tells us that he has given advantages to each and that we should look for these advantages in each of the pair. For example, such as day and night, rather than comparing them we should look at each for their advantages. One can say that unchecked competition leads to satan. He further tells us that these pairs merge into each other such as day and night and has different shades in them.
The advantages given to angles by God is that they are made of Noor (God's light) and they are closer to God, though the angels don't have freewill. Gabriel is an angel, who used to visit Muhammad. Where we humans are given from Rabbana (our Lord) freewill, thus given reasoning, rational, reasonable, coherent, analytical, investigative, critical, methodical, questioning, dissecting, logical, beautiful mind. Some people believe that humans are better than angels as God asked them to sujood to humans. My belief is that God through this command of sujood was exposing Iblis as I have mentioned earlier.
God calls Muhammad, Our (God's) abd in the Koran
002.022 Who has made the earth your couch, and the heavens your canopy; and sent down rain from the heavens; and brought forth therewith fruits for your sustenance; then set not up rivals unto Allah when ye know (the truth).
002.023 And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true.
Al-Qur'an, 002.022-023 (Al-Baqara )
Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.9
Abdulla Yousuf has translated abd as slave, while Matthew translates abd in 2311 as servant. Both these translator are not dong justice to the word abd. Of course, one cannot fault them, as this word by itself requires a whole book to explain. Other meanings of abd are love and devotion to God and walking in the path of God. What a title given to Muhammad by God. The other 2 connected words with abd are rbb and abb. Check out how Matthew beautifully brings out all these three concepts in chapter 23, King James Version
7 . And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
-
But be not ye called Rabbi for one is your Master (Rabb), even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
-
And call no man your father (abb) upon the earth for one is your Father (Abb), which is in heaven.
-
Neither be ye called masters (rbb) for one is your Master (Rbb), even Christ.
-
But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant (abd).
-
And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
- Matthew 237-12 ? Holy Bible ? King James Version.
I have taken the liberty to insert these three words (rbb, abd, abb), in bracket, wherever they appear.
And, here in Koran is about angels
002.285 The messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in Allah, His angels, His books, and His messengers. "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His messengers." And they say "We hear, and we obey (We seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys."
002.286 On no soul doth Allah Place a burden greater than it can bear. It gets every good that it earns, and it suffers every ill that it earns. (Pray
"Our Lord! Condemn us not if we forget or fall into error; our Lord! Lay not on us a burden Like that which Thou didst lay on those before us; Our Lord! Lay not on us a burden greater than we have strength to bear. Blot out our sins, and grant us forgiveness. Have mercy on us. Thou art our Protector; Help us against those who stand against faith."
Al-Qur'an, 002.285-286 (Al-Baqara )
Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.9
Ameen, Ya'Rabbi!
Mohamed
-
-
Salaam All,
?Jesus felt pure and calmly thought
Only the One God;
Who made himself to be a god,
Offends his holy will.
And thus the right(ness) has to shine
What Mahomet also achieved;
Only by the term of the One
He mastered the whole world?- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
Stupid that everyone in his case is praising his particular opinion! If Islam means ?submission to God?; we all live and die in Islam.
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
One more thing to be aware in Islam, satan is not an enemy/adversary of God. It the satan is an adversary/enemy of human begins. >D >D >D
Imagine God has an enemy! voodoo sun
Mohamed