"Free Will" is just an illusion
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Salam.
Okay, then let me ask you this, brother.
God created all the thingsd, right, the particles, the muscles, neurons and so on.
Are you saying that The God created US Homeland Security Officer and created his brain cells in such a way that his (officer's) planning, executing an idea and brain cells will somehow prevent my planning (entering US soil) and my idea from being executed?I mean, that would be unfair.
I mean, i don't want to get into some big argument but is it possible that certain's people's particles are designed, created in a way to over come other people's particles?
Suppose i wanna shoot someone in the middle of the desert who ha sno gun or shield. What is stopping me from killing that man? Nothing.
What is stopping him from continuing his life? My bullet.
In other words, my particles, my brain, my will, my choice was to kill this man in the desert and his free will or free choice was erased the moment i aimed at his head.How come this man doesn't have the free will anymore? Free choice? I mean, what if this man wants to live tomorrow and he chooses, he makes a decision to live but i prevent him with a bullet, doesn't that mean i over come his will, his choice?
Just a thought, although, brother JK, you have opened a good question, congratulations. This is something that will be discussed at length.
Peace. jedi
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Peace be upon you,
The nueral connections are formed by our free will....we are vehicles of the God, and God is FREE by nature, so the human must have free will so that God can come through our vehicles.
Nueral connections PUSH US to do certain things, for example, an acoholic has established nueral connections with drinking alcohol...however there are people who escape that cycle and become sober and change those nueral connections...the CHANGING OF NUERAL CONNECTIONS is the real struggle(jihad) that is being talked about in thie message and the premise of being able to CHANGE BEHAVIOR (nueral connections) is that we are , by nature, FREE! God be praised for the freedom! ;D
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Peace bro "tanveer",
Peace bro Khizar,
I don't think that the choice is initiated by the brain neurons. I think that the choice is made by the soul which is a distinct entity made of some kind of energy and is separate from the physical body.
JK- Ok this MAYBE the case IF AND ONLY IF the neural network is connected to a finite quantum network in a paralell universe which would then be the soul. But this is 1) Only a hypothesis which has yet to be proven 2) Even if true is ultimately causal no matter whether it tends to infinity or not.
A crude analogy is that of a car being driven by a driver the soul is the driver, the brain is the steering wheel and the body is the rest of the car. The God knows what we are going to do because He has no time restraints and can see the past, present and future at the same time.
JK- As i said this remains to be proven. But it is also possible that the neural network is the driver/soul and at the moment i think that is more likely because just look at our memories. They are not stored in some energy field in another universe but in the neural network right here in this universe. GOD could have allowed the memories to be stored in another universe if our soul were there but this is not the case. hus if one suffers brain damage all or part our memories may be lost. GOD Bless!
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Peace bro "alen",
Salam.
Okay, then let me ask you this, brother.
God created all the thingsd, right, the particles, the muscles, neurons and so on.
Are you saying that The God created US Homeland Security Officer and created his brain cells in such a way that his (officer's) planning, executing an idea and brain cells will somehow prevent my planning (entering US soil) and my idea from being executed?I mean, that would be unfair.
JK- It would be SEEMINGLY unfair and that is exactly the point. You might be missing the big picture. There is always a reason why GOD does something and this has its reason too. GOD's knowledge is infinite and He knows why Hes doing something.
I mean, i don't want to get into some big argument but is it possible that certain's people's particles are designed, created in a way to over come other people's particles?
Suppose i wanna shoot someone in the middle of the desert who ha sno gun or shield. What is stopping me from killing that man? Nothing.
What is stopping him from continuing his life? My bullet.JK- You will only shoot him if GOD allows it, otherwise it wont be possible. This in turn depends on the particles position at micro level.
In other words, my particles, my brain, my will, my choice was to kill this man in the desert and his free will or free choice was erased the moment i aimed at his head.
JK- What do you mean? The man in the desert also doesn have any real free will just like you. As i said it dpends on how the particles were located at that position that you would want to kill him or not and then we must not forget the aim factor, his possible martial skills etc. It is not at all clear, though probable, that you would succeed in killing him.
How come this man doesn't have the free will anymore? Free choice? I mean, what if this man wants to live tomorrow and he chooses, he makes a decision to live but i prevent him with a bullet, doesn't that mean i over come his will, his choice?
JK- As i said neither you not he has a free will. Ofcourse everyone wants to stay alive if hes healthy and undepressed.
Just a thought, although, brother JK, you have opened a good question, congratulations. This is something that will be discussed at length.
Peace. jedi
JK- It ptobably will. GOD Bless!
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Peace "idolfree",
Peace be upon you,
The nueral connections are formed by our free will....we are vehicles of the God, and God is FREE by nature, so the human must have free will so that God can come through our vehicles.
JK- This statement, even if it were true, lacks any scientific evidence. But lets say our neural network is shaped by our souls like an eternal quantum network in another dimension. Ok but we must not forget that that quantum network ultimately is again causal so no matter how far we take it, it remains causal and determinable. Real free will would mean that even GOD would not be able to determine what decisions we would make which is ofcourse nonsense. Moreover GOD doesnt need to come through our vehicles. He is the summation of all existing intelligence which is the Infinite Quantum Network and that is as self sufficient. It doesnt need any vehicles.
Nueral connections PUSH US to do certain things, for example, an acoholic has established nueral connections with drinking alcohol...however there are people who escape that cycle and become sober and change those nueral connections...the CHANGING OF NEURAL CONNECTIONS is the real struggle(jihad) that is being talked about in thie message and the premise of being able to CHANGE BEHAVIOR (nueral connections) is that we are , by nature, FREE! God be praised for the freedom! ;D
JK- The neural rections which chane maybe through external quantum influence, i agree, howver it still needs to be proven. But that doesnt give us rel free will either as already explained. However it is more liekly that the neural network is influenced by particles present in this universe i.e. other humans, environment and/or internal body reactions enfolding with time which could also include quantum reactions within individual neurons(that is very much possible). GOD Bless!
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Peace "nerspi",
peace
johnnyk, are you saying that just because The God knows what we're going to do in the future that He made that decision?
could you find in the Qur'an where it says that we don't have free will.
JK- GOD says it clearly in the Quran that Hes the doer of everything. Now we have two options 1) The evil occurs because some particles escaped causality or were shot out by GOD without care/proper calculation 2) Everything including evil is a part of evolution and has to take its course causally and though on the macro level it is each individual which makes the "choice" and is therefore causally repsonsible, it is ultimately the way the particles which went that way and GOD knew it. You decide which one is true. GOD Bless!
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Well you know that there is a special kind of collar for dogs, that gives them a shock every time they bark. How would this be for humans, if every time they did the wrong thing they were shocked? Very quickly you would have a race of moral automata.
For the purposes of Love and love of Perfection, free will is a necessity.
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Peace "bruce",
Well you know that there is a special kind of collar for dogs, that gives them a shock every time they bark. How would this be for humans, if every time they did the wrong thing they were shocked? Very quickly you would have a race of moral automata.
For the purposes of Love and love of Perfection, free will is a necessity.
JK- Whether a necessity or not is out of question. The fact is real free will cannot exist as it would violate causality as ive explained. It doesnt matter whether our decisions are ultimately determined by the neural network, which is most likely the case, or a more sophisticated quantum network in another dimension. Whtever it maybe and no matter how far we go it will always be causal. GOD Bless!
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JK- Man you didnt understand. Ofcourse you can "choose" in an illsuionary sense. But the very "you" your talking about is actually the neural network which made this decision because the currents made by chemical reactions were in a particular location/energy level etc at that time which is what formed your thought in the first place and then made the choice which you say is yours. Got it? GOD Bless!
But who we are, and what situation we are in, is the result of our thoughts. Not the other way around. We get what we sow, we don't sow what we get.
There are influences which CAN take away our free will, but the whole point is to avoid those influences and regain free will. Our situation doesn't really affect us unless we allow it to because there is no limit to our imagination. The possibilities in our minds are endless. If there was a limit to what we could create in our minds (like poor people only think about buying a house) then you would've had a point. But there's no limit.
There is a state where we can escape this series of (possibly unfortunate) events and take real control of our lives. -
Peace khizer.
There definitely is a free will. (or to be more appropriate "free choice" i don't think there is any doubt about it . it is up to you ,how do you fit it into your quantum field, the real question is, or should be weather God truly knows (100%)what a soul is likely to do? if god knows (for sure) what a soul would do, why has he allowed us to go through this exercise? i think we need to carry out some work on those verses where God is making such assertions .
sikandar -
Peace "phoenix",
But who we are, and what situation we are in, is the result of our thoughts. Not the other way around. We get what we sow, we don't sow what we get.
JK- As ive explained the very "we" your talking about is ultimately an illusion. There is no magic. Everything is causal. The "we" is a result of our neural network and/or perhaps quantum network as explained above.
There are influences which CAN take away our free will, but the whole point is to avoid those influences and regain free will. Our situation doesn't really affect us unless we allow it to because there is no limit to our imagination. The possibilities in our minds are endless. If there was a limit to what we could create in our minds (like poor people only think about buying a house) then you would've had a point. But there's no limit.
There is a state where we can escape this series of (possibly unfortunate) events and take real control of our lives.JK- Whether our thoughts are limited or not remains yet to be discovered. But this doesnt change the fact that there aint no real free will since evrything's causal after all. Free will would mean that individual particles could magically redirect themselves without being influenced by some other force which is nonsense. GOD Bless!
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Peace bro "siki",
Peace khizer.
There definitely is a free will. (or to be more appropriate "free choice" i don't think there is any doubt about it . it is up to you ,how do you fit it into your quantum field, the real question is, or should be weather God truly knows (100%)what a soul is likely to do? if god knows (for sure) what a soul would do, why has he allowed us to go through this exercise? i think we need to carry out some work on those verses where God is making such assertions .
sikandarJK- See now the problem starts right here. Your now doubting as to whether GOD 100% knows which path/decisions wer gonna make. This is in clear violation of 1) the Quranic statements which mention that Hes the all knowing 2) causality, because it means that some particles could magically redirect themselves without any force acting on them which is nonsense. GOD Bless!
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JK- As ive explained the very "we" your talking about is ultimately an illusion. There is no magic. Everything is causal. The "we" is a result of our neural network and/or perhaps quantum network as explained above.
WE are manifestations of energy, just like everyother object in the universe. Everything starts out somewhere. There has to be a source, and that source is God, the creator. We have a part of that source in us which provides us with the freedom to do anything.
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Peace "phoenix"
WE are manifestations of energy, just like everyother object in the universe. Everything starts out somewhere. There has to be a source, and that source is God, the creator. We have a part of that source in us which provides us with the freedom to do anything.
JK- And what is energy according to you? Is it some magical substance which can go wherever it wants? No it is a stream of infinite particles which are all ultimately moing in a certain direction. GOD Bless!
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Peace "phoenix",
I don't know what energy is. But why is it moving in a certain direction? what do you mean by that?
JK- The quantum particles(energy) are all moving in a causal way meaning one is pushed by another whhich started from infinity and is on going. Energy is not like magic and not on violation of causality. GOD Bless!
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How does something start from infinity? But that infinity is still a source. Where does that infinity come from? we can keep going and going. There has to be a point where it all stops. Like the big bang was the start of the universe. That's when it all began. a supernova is the source of heavy elements and planets.
That source has to be free from the "causality." And we are connected to that source. -
Peace "phoenix",
How does something start from infinity? But that infinity is still a source. Where does that infinity come from? we can keep going and going. There has to be a point where it all stops. Like the big bang was the start of the universe. That's when it all began. a supernova is the source of heavy elements and planets.
That source has to be free from the "causality." And we are connected to that source.JK- Nothing is free from causality. It doesnt make sense at all. The big bang is said to be caused from an infinitesinally small point and yes one can say that there are an infinite number of particles since to each paticle there must be a further snaller particle and so on. This is just unavoidable. There is no real "start" as you claim otherwise youll have to define how. All one can say that it is an ongoing chain coming from either 1) an infinitesimally small point or 2) as ive written in another article this universe is just part of another universe which is part of yetr another until the ultiverse which is full of pure energy i.e. quantae everywhere. Personally the 2nd one sounds more reasonable to me but whatver the case none of them violate causality. GOD Bless!