Not a Muslim?
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Peace,
Although young, little brother Phoenix1 has made a good point. Labeling ourselves "Muslim", or anything for that matter isn't necessary or advantageous. It merely brings a lot of misunderstanding and dislike. What are the chances that Islam will ever become a positive, peaceful religion? It just seems that there are more extremist Muslims destroying everything the religion could/should be, and I'm no longer willing to stick my neck out and call myself Muslim when the majority of so-called Muslims are frankly, crazy.
It is VERY important to me to help the many people in the world, especially children who are suffering at the hands of in a word, evil people. I have finally found a charitible organization that is doing such work, however, the call themselves a Christian org. What saddens me is that I can't find an organization that calls itself Muslim and also does this sort of much needed work. I just can no longer call myself Muslim when the majority of people who so self-righteously call themselves the same, continue to be so insane and claim they're doing God's will. It is the letter below that has really effected me because it comes from the org that I believe is doing wonderful work.
As non-extremist, non-violent Muslims, what thoughts do you have on what appears to me a losing battle? Thanks for your time.
Peace,
lilyfleurUNITED KINGDOM
Home Secretary David Blunkett announced on July 7th 2004 that he intends to make inciting religious hatred a criminal offence. The government failed to get laws introducing this offence passed by Parliament in the wake of the US terror attacks in 2001. In a speech to the Institute of Public Policy Research, Mr Blunkett revived the proposals. He said he was returning to the plans as there was a need to stop people being abused or targeted just because they held a particular religious faith. He claimed on BBC Radio 4's Today programme that the legislation would not curb people's right to express their view of other people's religions.There is already an offence of inciting racial hatred but this does not offer protection if someone is being targeted because of their religion. The government is worried in particular about discrimination against Muslims and the only religious group that is actively lobbying for such laws is the British Muslim community. Although this proposed law is supposed to prevent the inciting of hatred against all religions, the only religious community actively lobbying for it are the Muslims.
At the time of writing, the text of the proposed law has yet to be published. The government has not yet indicated when they plan to bring the law before Parliament but it is likely that it will be within the first few months of the new Parliamentary session which begins in November. There are numerous concerns from a wide spectrum of society, including Christians, that laws against inciting religious hatred could seriously undermine freedom of speech and censor reasonable criticisms of religion. The Government's main reason for wanting to introduce such laws is to protect the Muslim community but it's likely that at least some of the Muslims will try and use these laws to discourage and stop all criticism against their religion.
For example, there is much to criticise regarding the discrimination and persecution against Christians which occurs in numerous Muslim countries, including Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Iran, Egypt and Pakistan. Furthermore, in Islam, persecution and even execution is called for under Islamic sharia law against those who leave the religion and for example, convert to Christianity. If the Muslim community wants to reduce the amount of criticism leveled at their religion, the solution is not to try and censor their critics but to tackle in an honest way the links between their religion and the persecution and discrimination against other faiths, the unjust treatment of women and the use by some Muslims of certain teachings in Islam - such as the concepts of Jihad and martyrdom - to try and justify terrorism and suicide bombings. Attempting to bludgeon Islam's critics by legal means will only create more antagonism towards the Muslim community. Unless the Muslim community honestly and energetically deals with the unjust practices carried out in the name of their religion, these problems will continue and are likely to get much worse.
Evangelism could be gravely affected by laws against inciting religious hatred. Christians who say that salvation comes through Jesus Christ alone or who compare Christianity as vastly superior to other faiths could possibly be prosecuted. Advocacy for persecuted Christians in Islamic countries may also be badly affected. Whatever David Blunkett may claim about the intention behind these laws, it will in practice be very difficult to define the incitement of religious hatred in such a clear and narrow way that the laws cannot be misused against those who make reasonable criticisms against Islam or other religions.
While no right-thinking Christian would wish to incite religious hatred, passing laws which infringe basic human rights will only do more harm than good. We should love the Muslims and people of other or no religions but that does not mean we remain silent about wrongdoing perpetrated in the name of Islam or any other religion. It is possible the government is supporting such legislation to try and win back the many Muslim votes they lost over the Iraq war. These laws could create an environment of intimidation and self-censorship where Christians are afraid to speak out in evangelism or for the suffering church under Islam for fear of being prosecuted.
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Salaam Lily!
I know how you feel. At times it is incredibly frustrating.
We need to be living examples of our faith.
We are Muslims, it's not a losing battle.
The Quran itself states the believers are granted victory and prosperity. We just need to persevere and continue to uphold good works.
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Both Louise & I agree with the beautiful posting by Lilyfleur generated in reponse to another beautiful posting by Phoenix1. Labels are meaningless. We have stopped calling ourselves "muslims" also. We just practice what is preached in the Glorious Koran and let others decide what they wish to call us. Here is our version of living our lives by the living document called Koran (compiled from Wikipedia)
In Islam Moses/Musa is venerated as one of the greatest prophets of God; however, Islam also teaches that the texts of the Torah and the Gospels have been corrupted from their divine originals over the years, due to carelessness or self-interest. Despite this purported corruption, however, messages from the Torah and the Gospels still coincide closely with certain verses in the Qur'an. This is by-and-large the case with the Ten Commandments. Consequently, despite the Ten Commandments not being explicitly mentioned in the Qur'an they are substantially similar to the following verses in the Qur'an (using Jewish numbering of the Commandments)
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"There is no other god beside God."(4719)
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"My Lord, make this a peaceful land, and protect me and my children from worshiping idols." (1435)
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"Do not subject God's name to your casual swearing, that you may appear righteous, pious, or to attain credibility among the people." (2224)
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"O you who believe, when the Congregational Prayer (Salat Al-Jumu`ah) is announced on Friday, you shall hasten to the commemoration of GOD, and drop all business." (629). The Sabbath was relinquished with the revelation of the Quran. Muslims are told in the Quran that the Sabbath was only decreed for the Jews. (16124) God, however, ordered Muslims to make every effort and drop all businesses to attend the congregational (Friday) prayer. The Submitters may tend to their business during the rest of the day.
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"....and your parents shall be honored. As long as one or both of them live, you shall never say to them, "Uff" (the slightest gesture of annoyance), nor shall you shout at them; you shall treat them amicably." (1723)
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"....anyone who murders any person who had not committed murder or horrendous crimes, it shall be as if he murdered all the people." (532)
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"You shall not commit adultery; it is a gross sin, and an evil behavior." (1732)
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"The thief, male or female, you shall mark their hands as a punishment for their crime, and to serve as an example from God. God is Almighty, Most Wise." (538 - 39)
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"Do not withhold any testimony by concealing what you had witnessed. Anyone who withholds a testimony is sinful at heart." (2283)
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"And do not covet what we bestowed upon any other people. Such are temporary ornaments of this life, whereby we put them to the test. What your Lord provides for you is far better, and everlasting." (20131)
It can also be noted that in the 17th chapter, "Al-Israa" ("The Night Journey", verses 22-37, the Qur'an provides a set of moral stipulations which are "among the (precepts of) wisdom, which thy Lord has revealed to thee" that can be reasonably categorised as ten in number. It should be noted however, that these verses are not regarded by Islamic scholars as being somehow set apart from any other moral stipulations in the Qur'an, nor are they regarded as a substitute or replacement or abrogation of some other set of commandments as found in the Torah.
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Worship only God Take not with Allah another object of worship; or thou (O man!) wilt sit in disgrace and destitution. (1722)
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Be kind, honourable and humble to one's parents Thy Lord hath decreed that ye worship none but Him, and that ye be kind to parents. Whether one or both of them attain old age in thy life, say not to them a word of contempt, nor repel them, but address them in terms of honour. (1723) And, out of kindness, lower to them the wing of humility, and say "My Lord! bestow on them thy Mercy even as they cherished me in childhood." (1724)
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Be neither miserly or wasteful in one's expenditure And render to the kindred their due rights, as (also) to those in want, and to the wayfarer But squander not (your wealth) in the manner of a spendthrift. (1726) Verily spendthrifts are brothers of the Evil Ones; and the Evil One is to his Lord (himself) ungrateful. (1727) And even if thou hast to turn away from them in pursuit of the Mercy from thy Lord which thou dost expect, yet speak to them a word of easy kindness. (172 Make not thy hand tied (like a niggard's) to thy neck, nor stretch it forth to its utmost reach, so that thou become blameworthy and destitute. (1729)
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Do not engage in 'mercy killings' for fear of starvation Kill not your children for fear of want We shall provide sustenance for them as well as for you. Verily the killing of them is a great sin. (1731)
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Do not commit adultery Nor come nigh to adultery for it is a shameful (deed) and an evil, opening the road (to other evils). (1732)
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Do not kill unjustly Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand qisas or to forgive) but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the Law). (1733)
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Care for orphaned children Come not nigh to the orphan's property except to improve it, until he attains the age of full strength...(1734)
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Keep one's promises ...fulfil (every) engagement , for (every) engagement will be enquired into (on the Day of Reckoning). (1734)
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Be honest and fair in one's interactions Give full measure when ye measure, and weigh with a balance that is straight that is the most fitting and the most advantageous in the final determination. (1735)
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Do not be arrogant in one's claims or beliefs And pursue not that of which thou hast no knowledge; for every act of hearing, or of seeing or of (feeling in) the heart will be enquired into (on the Day of Reckoning). (1736) Nor walk on the earth with insolence for thou canst not rend the earth asunder, nor reach the mountains in height. (1737)
Harry & Louise Guggenheim
Ann Arbor, Michigan -
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It's sad to see that good, God fearing people prefer to distance themselves from this beautiful system that God has accepted as a system for us. What hope that it will ever win back its good reputation? And who will correct the misunderstanding of people? It is not the majority of muslims who are crazy. Many wise non-muslims do not generalize and give the silent majority its due respect .
And lilyfleur You blame muslims for not having founded that beautiful charity. Why don't you found it? God gave you much more gifts than millions of other muslims, and I am sure you can.
We will never be good believers if we do not stop measuring our reputation on the scale of the bad deeds committed by others.
However, I agree that those who accepted the message of Muhammad are a small part of the greater muslim community.
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Peace,
I think it's not fair to say that nearly all muslims and their organizations are bad. I think many christian organizations are exactly the same bad.
And I don't like the missonary stuff like I give you food if you read the Bible and hopefully convert to christianity voodoo
Maria
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Well, it does not matter through what medium you help people and children in particular. There is nothing wrong with participating in a Christian organization. Maybe one day when Lilyfleur already knows all the ropes of running such a charity organization she would found one herself.
By the way, speaking of missionary works, at least they are there to really help even though they also have another religiously motivated intention. It is absolutely way better than not helping at all.
If you are looking for a Muslim charity organization I think LIFE is a good one.
http//www.lifeusa.org/site/PageServerPeace,
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I'm a Muslim.
Although young, little brother Phoenix1 has made a good point. Labeling ourselves "Muslim", or anything for that matter isn't necessary or advantageous. It merely brings a lot of misunderstanding and dislike.
Perhaps only to those who are ignorant of Islam and what it is to be a Muslim.
What are the chances that Islam will ever become a positive, peaceful religion?
The sames chances as those who see Islam as non-positive, non-peaceful starting to lift the veil of their ignorance on what Islam is.
It just seems that there are more extremist Muslims destroying everything the religion could/should be, and I'm no longer willing to stick my neck out and call myself Muslim when the majority of so-called Muslims are frankly, crazy.
! Stop watching TV and be the change you want to see in the world.
and I'm no longer willing to stick my neck out and call myself Muslim when the majority of so-called Muslims are frankly, crazy.
Frankly, that comment is insulting.
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Just a question. How many of you guys on this site actually personally know Muslims who read Quran, pray 5 times a day, give in charity, etc. etc.. It's difficult to believe that you could call that majority crazy. I've never been one for majority this and that, but lately this site has been so off balance with the new agers that it's getting outta hand.
btw. you wanna talk about charity. There is a place right next door to where I work, it's called Catholic Charities and I'd say about 80% of the people who work there are Muslims.
giveup --------------> not really! jedi
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I think part of Lily's problem was the christian charity is slightly anti muslim.
the charity does not like muslim migrants coming to a particular region that is Christian, as they believe this migration is a deliberate attempt to turn the region into an Islamic one, in other words they are fearing a colonisation of muslims and want to keep their religions predominantly christian.
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Peace to all,
Thanks for saying what ive been feeling for awhile Mehdi, im a Muslim too and have no problem with the label, I pray 5 times a day and I actually bow and prostrate like the traditional Muslims do, i read Quran as much as I can, i usually never go more than one day without reading it, even if its just one verse, I also give some of my money to local poor and elderly every two weeks when i get paid, im not saying this to brag, I just agree that we should practice certain things to be considered a muslim, which I do and am,,,
I do agree that we should allow as many discussions and topics as we can here but it does get a bit "new agey" as you say Mehdi, we have to agree on a few basic principles if we are to even have a purpose other than a blog about random and idle chat and small talk,
Kurt
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peace,
um...LilyFluer didn't actually get the point I was trying to make. Or at least I didn't get that from the post.
Haroon said that "WE" are guaranteed victory. If "WE" are the believers, then who is "WE?"Is it the people who call themselves muslim? can't be because anyone can call themselves muslim.
Is it the people who follow the quran? well, who's version of the quran? who's interpretation and translation? with or without the cod-19? And anyone can claim to follow the quran without actually doing it, like sunnis for example. can't be that one either.
Well, they are the muslim people. Not people who call themselves muslim, but people who are muslim. Whom, through their actions and ideas, we can describe as muslim.
Allow me to quote myself,
We are muslim, when we follow the examples of muslim men given to us in the quran. Ibrahim, I believe, is one of them. When we don't follow those examples, and deviate from the path, we can't possibly describe ourselves as muslim, can we?
Let's say instead of being muslim, your goal is to hold your index finger in front of you and keep your focus on it. As long as you keep your focus on it, you can be described as a person who focuses on his index finger. But then a little kid shows up and punches you in the face. You lose focus. Now you no longer can be described as a person who focuses on his index finger, because that's not what you are doing! But you deal with the kid and hold up your finger again and start focusing. You are right back on track.See, we are not perfect. And we are not consistent. Sometimes we do good, sometimes we do bad. We make mistakes. And no matter how much we try, we let ourselves dwell on negative thoughts and emotions. And sometimes we let ourselves lose control of our emotions. We make mistakes, we suffer the consequences, but then we can always come back on track, and enter islam once again.
There is no one on this earth who is a muslim ALL the time in his life. We are bound to lose our way, even for a short while.
When I used to skip prayers, my mother called me a "bad muslim." Well, there is no bad muslim. The quran does not use that term and it makes absolutely no sense. it is paradoxical. Unless muslim is a meaningless label. Like Waleed, which is my name. It is arabic for "new born," but I haven't been newborn for 17 years and a few months. It is meaningless. It is not describing me.
The word muslim is supposed to describe, not merely name. So we have to translate it.
Let me offer another analogy.
Let's say I am part of a group that calls themselves Aqalmand. The word "aqalmand" comes from our holy book, which is written in Urdu. It is said that the aqalmands can solve any problem, and will always succeed in life. But since most people in our group are non urdu speakers, we do not know exactly what the word aqalmand means. So we assume that it means the people in our group, the ones who follow the holy book, and our children. But then we have problems, we see that many in our group are unable to solve the simplest of problems, and many end up as failures. We wonder, are the Aqalmands losing their way? are we not doing something right?
In order to solve the problem, I decide to find out what Aqalmand actually means. I find that it means "intelligent, smart." Aha! Now it makes sense to me! It makes sense that smart people can solve any problem, and will tend to succeed at what they do. It makes sense why many aqalmands keep failing at doing things, it is because they are not really aqalmands at all! they just call themselves aqalmand. So what we need to do, to be able to solve every problem, is to be smart. we have to think, and learn and aquire knowledge. That is what being an aqalmand means.
Now the holy book makes sense. Now, I urge all aqalmands to stop calling themselves aqalmands, and start being aqalmands. I tell them that aqalmand is not a proper noun, not a label, but an adjective. I tell them that we should strive to be aqalmand, because merely calling ourselves aqalmand is not enough to solve problems and succeed, as the holy book promised that the aqalmand would. We cannot create a seperate group of aqalmand people, and believe that only we are following the right path, when we see people all around us who are more capable of solving problems, and people who are more successful at their job. We should call everyone who is aqalmand an aqalmand. A smart person is a smart person. It doesn't matter if he is part of our group or not. In fact, our group doesn't even exist. We are not a seperate race from all the other people, but one with them under God. So we must stop worrying about the by-name-only aqalmands who are as dumb as a doornail (help them, but stop believing them), and start appreciating people who strive to become aqalmand (or smart) and work with them to create a more Aqalmand society. End of analogy.What I'm saying has little or nothing to do with the current state of Muslims, or any confusion the usage of the term may cause. What I'm saying is that we (each and every one of us) has to figure out what "muslim" is, and do and think muslimly before describing ourselves as muslim. It's like a room with doors, one may go in and out of it, but it's a room where one may ideally spend all of one's life. That room is islam. The people in that room are muslim.
Kufr is like a room too. And no one spends every moment of their life in any of these rooms. -
Peace Harry & Louise,
Labels are meaningless. We have stopped calling ourselves "muslims" also. We just practice what is preached in the Glorious Koran and let others decide what they wish to call us.
I'm with you on this one...I worry it is the name that we identify with otherwise, and start forming some sort of group identity or counter group identity, for that matter. I am of thinking these days that it is best not to distinguish oneself as this or that in terms of religion. Just do what needs to be done, focussing on performing your best (as per the recommendations in the Qur'an) at the tasks at hand that God has provided.
...And thank you for the nice compilation of ayat.
God bless!
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People who call themselves muslim/submitter (to God) but behave the opposite is as silly as someone calling himself filial son without ever taking care of his parents. In my opinion, the only thing we could do is to WISH that we are a muslim/submitter (to God).
Peace,
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Peace all,
I do not call myself by the Arabic term "muslim" whilst speaking another language. Its crazy. The term "muslim" aint a proper name. It can and should be translated into the language one is currently communicating with others. It means "submitter" in English and in context of the Quran it means "submitter to GOD" and thats what id cll myself if asked. GOD Bless! -
Salam,
Kurt I agree, some of the most pious people I've ever met where those who pray 5 times a day, give in charity, believe in the Prophets, angels etc..
jankren,
People who call themselves muslim/submitter (to God) but behave the opposite is as silly as someone calling himself filial son without ever taking care of his parents. In my opinion, the only thing we could do is to WISH that we are a muslim/submitter (to God).
Perhaps you're being too hard on yourself or others and possibly both. Behaviour is not an end all. You might observe a person's behaviour but the cause and intentions you might not know, fully know, comprehend, nor understand. This leads to a point of judgement instead of discernment. Allah knows best.
jonny_k,
I do not call myself by the Arabic term "muslim" whilst speaking another language. Its crazy. The term "muslim" aint a proper name. It can and should be translated into the language one is currently communicating with others.
The word "Muslim" is in the English dictionary, so no, it's not crazy. Language is beautiful like that.
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Peace "M-Mehdi",
jonny_k,
The word "Muslim" is in the English dictionary, so no, it's not crazy. Language is beautiful like that.
JK- The word "muslim" appears in the English dictionary as a proper name only becaue the Mullahs and the religious elite made it appear as so. But we know better and should act according to what is logical and rational. GOD Bless!
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Peace "M_Mehdi",
salam,
What is rational and logical at times is simply to be practical. Words define, and Muslim is defined as an adherent of Islam. If you wish to think of it as a conspiracy of the "religious elite", it's your choice.
JK- If you follow the QUran Alone youd know that Muslim is not a proper name, it's tht simple. So why use an Arabic term which people in the west are not aware that it is simply a common term meaning "submitter" and thereby causing probs? Does tht make sense to you? Or do you want to stand out as being more holy like the religious elite? GOD Bless!