Not a Muslim?
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Salam,
JK- If you follow the QUran Alone youd know that Muslim is not a proper name, it's tht simple.
It's good for you to see this duyna as black and white. I see many shades of grey and colors in betweem.
So why use an Arabic term which people in the west are not aware that it is simply a common term meaning "submitter" and thereby causing probs?
The only problems it seems to serve are for the those who are ignorant of Islam, and apparently those who wish to seperate themselves to try and please others.
Or do you want to stand out as being more holy like the religious elite? GOD Bless!
This does not make sense. How is calling oneself a Muslim becoming a "religious elite"? It would be more logical to think those wish to seperate and call themselves by other names to be more inclined "to want to stand out." hmm
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Peace "M_Mehdi",
Salam,
It's good for you to see this duyna as black and white. I see many shades of grey and colors in betweem.
JK- Id be the last person on earth to view the world as black and white but this does not mean i cannot make certain rational assumptions or which are at least apparently so in my view. That too is part of life. And your using "dunya" here only demonstrates my point further. It makes no sense. People would think your trying to Arabise the English language which we must not do unless the majority of the ppl who speak the language themselves agree and then the terms from another language is legally declared to be part of the former. It cannot be tht a minority group smuggles in terms into another ppls language.
The only problems it seems to serve are for the those who are ignorant of Islam, and apparently those who wish to seperate themselves to try and please others.
JK- People are not ignorant of "submission". They however maybe ignorant of the Arabic language which leads us back to my original point.
This does not make sense. How is calling oneself a Muslim becoming a "religious elite"? It would be more logical to think those wish to seperate and call themselves by other names to be more inclined "to want to stand out." hmm
JK- By insisting on it to be a proper name while it is not and thereby trying to be part of a certain group. GOD Bless!
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peace
Did anyone bother to read my post? it might be a good idea since it was one of my posts that started this thread. I clarified my position on this.
And M Mehdi, if Allah knows best, then why do we call ourselves muslim? why not let Allah decide who is muslim and who is not?
But do you agree that there are people who may not call themselves muslim, but ARE? and there are those who do call themselves muslims, but are not? -
Peace,
I read your post phoenix!!!!
Maria
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And M Mehdi, if Allah knows best, then why do we call ourselves muslim? why not let Allah decide who is muslim and who is not?
That is exactly my opinion. When people ask about my faith I usually say I follow Al Quran. So I think instead of asking about people's religion we should instead ask about their scripture because we all actually serve the same God and have equal opportunity to be 'submitter/muslim' in the eyes of God.
Peace,
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Peace,
Wow, you are a genious Jankren bravo
Good solution indeed about asking what book you follow peace
Maria
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Salam,
People would think
your trying to Arabise the English language which we must not do unless the majority of the ppl who speak
the language themselves agree and then the terms from another language is legally declared to be part of
the former.
This is a very strange point of view. The english language is full of terms from other languages that were
slowly introduced just like Islam, Muslim, dunya, adios, amigios, gringos, tacos, burritos etc..
People are not ignorant of "submission". They however maybe ignorant of the Arabic language which
leads us back to my original point.
Exactly, then why try and stop the learning of Arabic terms and words calling it "trying to Arabise the
English language"? After all, the Quran is Arabic. I see nothing wrong with bringing these terms to light.
And M Mehdi, if Allah knows best, then why do we call ourselves muslim?
Because it's practicle. I understand where you are coming from but I choose to be practical about it. I could
say, 'I'm a submitter to God alone who believes in the Prophets, the Angels, who believes the Quran to be
the word of God and learns from all of God's creation both good and bad.etc, etc, etc' ... or I can just say,
I'm Muslim and go from there. It matters less for me what someone might judge me that I'm "Muslim".
why not let Allah
decide who is muslim and who is not?
You're right, at the end, Allah decides all that there is to decide!
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Nowadays "Muslim" has many shades. When someone asks me "in Arabic" if I am muslim, I ask what do you mean by "muslim"? I do not say yes, period. I do want them to understand what islam is and where I stand. I definitely wouldn't like to be taken as someone who believes in hadiths and the nonesense they contain, or in the many other practices that I disagree with. Non muslim would further ask sunni or shiite? So, befoe coming to this question, I explain what I believe, and leave the problem of labeling to them. I would only say I am muslim, if I am not interested in explaining anything for a reason or another.
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Salam,
I don't think it's only nowadays Samia. I believe it has always been. If we do some searching it's easy to find that many in history have been at this exact place. I understand the respect your view of wanting others to understand where you are coming from.
I remember years ago, I was invited to a wedding of a couple of friends at a masjid. To make the long story short there were somethings that I witnessed that I did not feel followed the Quran. The next monday I went to talk to the Imam, I took my Quran with me and we went through some things, he kept pointing to the hadiths as to why he did and said what he did, yet I would refer to the Quran. After a little time in came another Imam from the same masjid and we basicly disagreed on everything. Yet before I left, the second Imam that came in ask me before I left, do you agree that all three of us are Muslims? I said yes. Even most Shia and Sunni they believe the other to be Muslim. Unity is key.
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Salaam Mehdi
For me, unity with the wrong is not a key, except for locking the truth. I'd rather stand alone than unite with unlike-minded. Maybe difference in personlities.
I look at how western countries unite in wrong decisions. Do I like it? No. Do I envy them? Not at all.
Moreover, if we follow the quraan, God spoke about unity in following his teachings only.
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For me, unity with the wrong is not a key, except for locking the truth. I'd rather stand alone than unite with unlike-minded. Maybe difference in personlities.
The one you think is the wrong also thinks that he is the right and you are the wrong. If it keeps on going like this when will this end? We do not need to have the same views on everything to unite. As God tells us in Al Quran all we need to do is to come with a common term. Respect among each other is enough to form unity.
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Salam Samia,
I understand and agree with the meaning of what you say. I need to ask though, do you believe those who follow hadith and sunnah to be "the wrong"? What of the Christians and Jews? Would these folks be something in which you do not wish to unite with?
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I am not talking about individuals but about belief. And yes, a "belief" that's illogical is wrong.
As for Christians and Jews, (and we are using ordinary language, yes?) they do not have an authentic book to refer to as a reference, just compilation of books written by saints; so I find more excuse for them. If we had only the hadith in front of us (no quran), how could we say it was wrong or illogical? And what would be our reference for the wrong and the right?
What of the Christians and Jews? Would these folks be something in which you do not wish to unite with?
Unite with in what?
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I am not talking about individuals but about belief.
Ok. Thank you I understand better where you are coming from. As I posted earlier there are many very good, pious, humble and generous human beings who are hadith followers. If we are to think of actions to come before labels or words etc.. then we aught not just discount good people because of their professed beliefs, insha_Allah as we remember, 225
Unite with in what?
In righteousness. Or even making a birthday cake. handshake
peace be upon you Samia.
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Because it's practicle. I understand where you are coming from but I choose to be practical about it. I could
say, 'I'm a submitter to God alone who believes in the Prophets, the Angels, who believes the Quran to be
the word of God and learns from all of God's creation both good and bad.etc, etc, etc' ... or I can just say,
I'm Muslim and go from there. It matters less for me what someone might judge me that I'm "Muslim".
peace Mehdi, I don't care about what people think of the word "muslim" or how we should all explain our beliefs to others. My post, which resulted in this thread, and my first post on this thread (please read that), had nothing to do with that.
I couldn't care less about what people choose to call themselves. But names are just names. They don't mean anything. Samia is a name, it doesn't describe you. Muslim is supposed to be a description.
And please remember that the issue here is not describing your belief system, but actually understanding what the quran means, by understanding what the word muslim means.
Now, the problem today is that because muslim is taken as a proper noun, a meaningless label, people think that just because they are part of this group, just because they are born into islam, they are really what the quran means by muslim. Muslims are supposed to be helped my God. Well, someone might say, I am a Muslim, why doesn't God help me? Well, that's because you only call yourself a muslim, you are not what you say you are. We need to understand what the word means exactly. It's not a certain group of people, but a desciption that can be applied to anyone. Like the word 'smart,' or 'erudite' or 'foolish.'You're using the word "Muslim" to define that which you seem to disagree with using as a defining measure.
I don't get it. Why don't you start by answering my question.
peace -
Salaam phoenix1
I am not the author of this
Because it's practicle. I understand where you are coming from but I choose to be practical about it. I could
say, 'I'm a submitter to God alone who believes in the Prophets, the Angels, who believes the Quran to be
the word of God and learns from all of God's creation both good and bad.etc, etc, etc' ... or I can just say,
I'm Muslim and go from there. It matters less for me what someone might judge me that I'm "Muslim".