punishment of the grave?
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Hello Samia
Do you really speak Arabic?
The words in the verse are AL FIRON, i.e. the people of Firon
Who are you kiddin exacly? not me of course
Please stop misleading others because they think that you speak Arabic
Salam
Salaam AB
The verse does not say "the people". This is the translation.
Now you tell me What do you understand by "the people of the Pharon"? And what do you understand by "al "?
The quraan explained who "al of the Pharon" are when it expalined that
854 "and we drowned al of the Pharon for they were wrong doers".
Who were drowned? His supporters/soldiers and Haamaan or his people?
The following verse says exactly who those "al" are
Verse 285-6 " And We wish to do a favour to those who are oppressed in the land (i.e banu israel) and make them rulers and make them the inheritors, and to establish them in the land, and We let Pharon and Haamaan ad their soldiers receive from them that which they feared".
Pharon et al were made to see all this while they are dead, because all this happened after they drowned.
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Hello All
The ones in denial fearing the grave torture are running like zebras trying hard to mix and match any verses to validate their flawed argument, we have seen an example above using a verse about paradise to tell us that the times Ghudwan wa Ashaian will be in the heaven, look again on his flawed argument and you will see that the verse about heaven never mentioned both times, only one, the verse said about heaven ?Bukratan wa Ashayan?, Not Ghudwan Wa Ashaian as we have seen in the verse about the grave punishment, let me now show you that the two times Ghudwan and Ashaian are in this life
And do not drive away those who call upon their Lord in the morning and the evening, they desire only His favor; neither are you answerable for any reckoning of theirs, nor are they answerable for any reckoning of yours, so that you should drive them away and thus be of the unjust.
(52)
-> See ? ?, i.e. ? And do not drive away those who call upon their Lord in the morning and the evening,?, can you see the words ?Be Al Ghadati Wa Al Ashai??,
And withhold yourself with those who call on their Lord morning and evening desiring His goodwill, and let not your eyes pass from them, desiring the beauties of this world's life; and do not follow him whose heart We have made unmindful to Our remembrance, and he follows his low desires and his case is one in which due bounds are exceeded.
(2
-> See ? ?, i.e. ? And those who call on their Lord morning and evening?, can you see the words ?Be Al Ghadati Wa Al Ashai??,
Now letls compoare it with 4046
(46)
-> See ? ?, i.e. Ghudwan and Ashain are time events in this very life, not in heaven as the desperate are trying hard to tell us nor on the JD as some fake messengers think of it
http//free-islam.com/extraimages/slamdunk1.gif
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Peace all,
If "3ashiyyan" can only be in this life, how come there is "3ashiyyan" in heaven (1962) ?
Just like there can be "bukratan wa 3ashiyyan" in Heaven (1962), there can be "ghuduwwan wa 3ashiyyan" in Hell.
"Bukratan" means the same as "ghuduwwan" by the way. The "3ashiyyan" is exactly the same in both. This makes it undisputable that both Hell and Heaven can have morning and evening.
In the following signs, "bukratan" is also used for the earthly life, but that does not mean that there can be no "bukratan" in heaven (1962).
1911 So he went out amongst his people from the temple enclosure, and he indicated to them that they should glorify Him at morning (bukratan) and evening.
3342 And glorify Him morning (bukratan) and evening.
489 So that you may believe in God and His messenger, and that you may support Him, honor Him, and glorify Him, morning (bukratan) and evening.
7625 And remember the name of your Lord morning (bukratan) and evening.
The word "ghuduwwi" is used for the same exact meaning as "bukratan" in the following signs
7205 And remember your Lord within yourself, in humility and in reverence; and without loudness in words, during the morning (ghuduwwi) and the evening. And do not be of the careless ones.
2436 In sanctuaries that God has allowed to be raised and His name mentioned in them. He is glorified therein morning (ghuduwwi) and evening.
All these signs are referring to the SAME glorification and remembrance of The God at the same exact times by the usage of "bukratan" and "ghuduwwi", which proves that "bukratan" and "ghuduwwi" have the same meaning of "morning" and are interchangeable.
This proves beyond a shadow of doubt that "morning and evening" can be in Hell and Heaven also.
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Salaam All,
I know this topic is more than a year old, but as I said, I am going through most threads in my own time to find the answers to my questions.
I hope AhmadBaghat is still with us.
Samia and Tanveer, this is proof that muslim scholars read words into quran using hadith of bukhary.
http//www.islamcvoice.com/play.php?catsmktba=1378&action=a3lan
Scroll to minute 10 and listen to how Tariq Suwaidan explains two verses using hadith.
'Bukhary said that Al-Naby said that this refers to '3athab al-qabr'. (Grave torture)'
There can be no torture before 'yaum Al-Hisab'. There would be no justice. Isn't that what 'our' world is based on. Good vs Evil, and Justice at the End.
Regards
Ramzi
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Salam Ramzi,
When we die (unless the person was a martyr) we will be in state of sleep. During this state, it is possible that the person would experience nightmares and terror if he was a bad person (i.e. the angels would be smacking the person`s soul).
This is how I would describe the punishment after death.
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Salaam Layth,
Thanks for your reply!
I remember being taught something along those lines in school.......
For every day after you die till Judgement Day, an angel will ask you at dawn
'Did you pray 'fajr' salat? If you did not, then you would be smacked hundreds of feet into the earth continuously until noon.
Then 'Did you pray 'Zohr' salat? If no, then the process repeated until 'Asr' ........ and so on.
Maybe the methodology is not 100% right but the principle of 'punishment in the grave' was still taught.
As I said before, at school I was too young to question anything. I am not saying that all what we were taught is wrong.... but I feel it contradicts the whole concept of JUDGEMENT DAY.....
I will continue reading to find my answers, but it seems the people that do believe in punishment in the grave rely on bukhary's hadith.
I read a couple of days ago, that after death and before JD, the soul remains suspended but intact until JD. Maybe it was an article on free minds.
During this state, it is possible that the person would experience nightmares and terror if he was a bad person
Can I please ask what your basis for this is?
Assuming you follow Quran alone, how did you come to that conclusion ('it is possible'??
Thanking you in advance if you decide to answer the two questions above
Regards
Ramzi
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Salam Ramzi,
Can I please ask what your basis for this is?
Assuming you follow Quran alone, how did you come to that conclusion ('it is possible'??
850 And if you could only see as the angels terminate the lives of those who have rejected, they strike their faces and their backs
Taste the punishment of the blazing Fire!4727 So how will it be when their lives are terminated by the angels, while striking their faces and their backs?
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Peace all,
I cant really say I know much about this topic, and no hard feelings but I think all you are saying here is wild guess. And than we argue endlessly who's wild guess is better.
Seeing this from Earth perspective, this punishment of the grave is something similiar to Guantanamo Bay- people are being punished but not judged yet.
If we think Guantanamo is violation of god given human rights, than punishment of the grave is a similar violation - therefore I dont believe it really exists, but thats just me.
