"Obey the Prophet" refers to Political Obedience

arnoldyasin

Tasreef of the term 'Obey the Messenger'

The traditionalist view

Proof of the importance of the Sunnah

The Quran speaks of the importance of the Sunnah, for example

(a) Allah says He who obeys the Messenger has indeed obeyed Allah (an-Nisa 80) Allah described obedience to the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) as being a part of obedience to Him. Then He made a connection between obedience to Him and obedience to the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger (an-Nisa 59)

(b) Allah warns us not to go against the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), and states that whoever disobeys him will be doomed to eternal Hell. Allah says And let those who oppose the Messengers commandment beware, lest some fitnah (trial, affliction, etc.) befall them or a painful torment be inflicted on them. (an-Nur 63)

(c) Allah has made obedience to His Prophet a religious duty; resisting or opposing it is a sign of hypocrisy But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission. (an-Nisa 65)

(d) Allah commands His servants to respond to Him and His Messenger O you who believe! Answer Allah (by obeying Him) and (His) Messenger when he calls you to that which will give you life (al-Anfal 24)

(e) Allah also commands His servants to refer all disputes to him (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger (an-Nisa 59)

What Allah says about the Quran in the Quran

-There is no doubt in this Book (22).
-Allah has taken the responsibility to explain it (7519).
-Allah says He has revealed the Quran and He will protect it (159).
-Allahs revelation to the Prophet (PBUH) is written in the Quran (619). There is no verse in the Quran which says that Allahs revelation to the Prophet (PBUH) is outside the Quran.
-Momineen are asked to obey the revelation from Allah (73).
-The Prophet (PBUH) was asked to obey the revelation sent down on him (10109).
-He was asked to follow the Quran (751.
-Allah required the Prophet (PBUH) to follow the blessed Book sent down on him (6155).
-The Prophet (PBUH) used to judge matters according to the revelation sent down on him (54.
-Those who do not judge matters according to what Allah has revealed are Kaafirs (544).
-In the Quran, Allah has completed His message and no one can change anything in it (634, 6115).
-The Quran encompasses the message of earlier revelations (54. So, the truth of earlier revelations is now contained in the Quran.
-In it there are no contradictions (482).
-Allah has called the Quran "Tibyaanan li Kulli Shaiyin (1689)". This means it explains everything.
-Allah gives many verses on a particular topic over and over again (6105, 1741). This means that we have to collect all the verses on a topic in order to understand it fully. This is the Divine method of understanding the Quran.
-The Prophet (PBUH) was required to solve all human differences through the Quran (1664).
-The Prophet (PBUH) was required to admonish and remind people through the Quran (5045).
-The Quran itself is light (515). So, it is not dependent on another source of light.
-This light (i.e., the Quran) has been given so that human beings, using this light, can travel safely on the path of life (6122).
-Allah undertook the responsibility to collect the Quran (7517).
-Whatever difference human beings have, the decision is with Allah (4210).

What do we know about the Quran, and what do we know about Hadith and Sunnah

-The Quran is the final word of God.
-It has been preserved exactly as it was revealed to the Prophet (PBUH).
-The Prophet (PBUH) left only the Quran in written form since he forbade writing of hadith during his life time (Sahih Al-Muslim).
-The Quran was written by very honorable scribes (8016).
-There were many companions who had memorized the entire Quran word by word.
-Unlike the authenticity of hadith, there is no dispute among scholars (Sunni or Shiia) about the authenticity of the Quranic verses.
-There are six Sunni books of hadith which are normally referred to as "sahha sitta" (six true books). Shiias have their own four important books of -hadith. These were compiled and written based on (a chain of) oral narration mostly in the third century Hijrah or later.
-Scholars agree that the chain of narrators transmitted the meaning of hadith and not the exact words of the Prophet (PBUH).
-It is generally agreed that the chain of narrators, no matter how reliable, were humans and subject to human errors. Consequently, their narrations -are subject to errors. The Quran is the only Book beyond error.
-As a consequence, ahadith are classified into several categories starting from "correct" on one side to "coined" on the other. (Verses of the Quran do not have such classification.)
-Shiia scholars do not accept Sunni books of hadith. Even among the Sunnis, there are some ahadith which are accepted as correct by one group of scholars (Ahlul-Hadith, for example) but not by other groups (like Ahlul Fiqh and others).
-The authenticity of hadith is not equal to the authenticity of the verses of the Quran.
-"The sayings of the Prophet (PBUH) and the sayings we find in the books of ahadith are not necessarily one and the same." (Maulana Maududi, Rasayel-o-Massayel, Volume I, 1951 edition, page 270).

-Sahih Bukhari This was compiled by Imam Muhammad Ismail Bukhari. He was born in Bukhara and died near Samarqand in 256 A.H. (or in 260 A.H.). It is said that he collected about 600,000 ahaadith. From these he selected about 7,300 for his book, having discarded the rest.
-Sahih Muslim This was compiled by Imam Muslim Bin Hujjaj. He was born in 204 A.H. in the famous Iranian city of Nishapur and died in 261 A.H. He collected about 300,000 ahaadith and selected 4,348 for his book.
-Tirmidhi This was compiled by Imam Abu Isa Muhammad Tirmidhi. He was born in the Iranian city of Tirmidh in 209 A.H. and died in 279 A.H.. He collected 300,000 ahaadith and selected 3,115.
-Abu Daawood He was born in 202 A.H. in the Iranian city of Sistaan and died in 275 A.H. He collected 500,000 ahaadith and kept only 4,800 in his book.
-Ibn Maaja This was compiled by Imam Abu Abdullah Muhammad Bin Zayd Ibn Maaja. He was from the Iranian city of Qazwin. He was born in 209 A.H. and died in 273 A.H. He collected 400,000 ahaadith and selected only 4,000 for his book.
-Nisayee This was compiled by Imam Abdul Rahman Nisayee. He was born in the village of Nisa in the province of Khurasaan in Iran. He died in 303 A.H. He collected 200,000 and selected 4,321 for his book.

Traditional Islam refers to that we must obey Allah AND the Messenger, but they forgot this important verse

O you who believe, obey God and the Prophet and those in authority among you; and if you are at variance over something, refer it to God and the Messenger, if you believe in God and the Last Day. This is good for you and the best of settlement.

So we now have these very important issues gained from our research

The Quran contains the complete timeless Code of Law for the Islamic Ummah.
No outside Revelation is given to the Messenger, only the Quran.
We must obey the Messenger.
We must obey the Leaders of the Islamic State.

So to what realm does obeying the Messenger refer too? Muhammed was the ruler of the Islamic State. People had to swear an oath to accept him as their leader, he was chosen

6012 O Prophet! When believing women come unto you taking oath of
allegiance to you (they shall pledge that they will) -

Not associate anyone with Allah.
Not steal the rights of others.
Not commit immodesty.
Neither kill their children, nor deprive them of good rearing.
Not indulge in fabricating slander, either overtly or covertly.
Not disobey you in the Quranic Values.

When they have made the pledge, accept their allegiance and ask Allah to
bestow upon them the protection of forgiveness. For, behold, Allah is
the Protector, Ever giving for those who strive for it.

So this means the first Muslims were asked to obey Muhammed as a leader of the Islamic State, these decisions were made due to circumstances that they encountered in their time. These were always in line with the Quranic Values. But since their circumstances were truly circumstances of the 6th century in Arabia, these are timebounded and mostly cannot be used for modern times. Just like custom is timebound, as it is dependent on the knowledge of its age. So Sunnah does not refer to the custom of the Prophet, but to the bye-laws of the Islamic State that is determined according to its need of its time. This can refer to large matters as taxes to small matters as hygiene, which is determined by the situation and knowledge of the time.

To keep holding on to customs which have turned obselete is non-Quranic and illogical, and makes it dangerous to see these customs as Divine. This behaviour can be seen in the Quran

728 (As an example) when people commit an indecency they say, "We found our forefathers doing it and Allah has enjoined it upon us." (Made it natural for us). Say (O Prophet), "Allah never enjoins indecency. Do you attribute to Allah of which you have no knowledge?"

Obedience to the Messenger refers to POLITICAL obedience, after the death of the Prophet, this obedience is shifted to the Khalif that comes after him, and so on and so on. This is why the Quran says

3144 Remember that Muhammad is only a Messenger. The Messengers before him have passed on. So, if he died or were slain, would you turn about on your heels? But he that turns about his heels, would not at all harm Allah. And Allah will soon reward those who remain appreciative (for Guidance. They shall reap the fruit of the Benevolent System here and then, in the Hereafter 3101, 3185, 3510).

Obeying the Prophet can thus not be done anymore. This is why the first generations of Muslims did not write down any sayings of the Prophet, as his ruling was replaced by his succesor. And so obeying the Prophet has shifted towards obeying the chosen Khalif and Shura, counsel. This obedience can only be done in an Islamic State that upholds the Quran as its only rule of Law, and only upholds bye-laws that are in line with present needs of the Ummah and the Quranic Values.

So the obedience the traditionalists refer too is non-Quranic and based on Jewish Theology, where the obedience is only on an religious level, and can be thus followed under any non-Islamic form of State. This concept is false, as Islam can only be truly followed under a pure Islamic State. There is no State on Earth that has a Law System that does not contradict with the Quran and the need of its people. As long as there is no chosen Khalif and Law System that is in line with the Quranic Values, the obedience of the Prophet/Leaders has no value and is impossible.

This view is supported abundantly by the Holy Quran. The Quranic arguments may be summarised below

In Islam obedience is essentially and basically due only to the Laws of Allah as embodied in the Holy Quran. "Shall I (Rasoolullah, PBUH) look for a judge other than Allah. He who has revealed to you a book defining things clearly"? (6/115).
He who does not adjudicate in accordance with the Holy Quran is not a Muslim (5/44).
Obedience to Divine Laws is not a thing belonging to the individual plane in the sense that one might, of his own, consult the Holy Quran, interpret it for himself and act according to his individual interpretation. The obedience has to be disciplined and ordered under an organised system (called State in the present day terminology) controlled by a central authority, the first central authority having been Allah's Rasool. Obedience to the central authority is obedience to Allah. Says the Holy Quran "One who obeys the Rasool obeys Allah" (4/80), the Rasool adjudging everything according to the Holy Book (5/4.
Barring a few exceptions, the Holy Quran enunciates generally fundamental principles without touching subsidiary law. About these principles or the basic provisions, the Holy Quran says "The Kalema (basic principle) revealed by the Nourisher has been made complete in truth and justice. There is none who can change His principles (6/116).
The reason for leaving out subsidiary laws from the Holy Quran has been explained thus "Ask not for things which if revealed would inconvenience you, and if you ask for them while the Quran is being revealed, they will be disclosed to you....Before you a people (the Israelites) did ask for them and then disbelieved (and defied) them". (5/101-2). In elucidation of the above verses, a Hadith is cited which says "Allah has placed on you certain obligations, do not violate them. Some things have been forbidden, do not go near them. Some limitations have been imposed, do not transgress them. Some things have been left unspoken of without being overlooked, do not probe into them".
The question as to how details, which have deliberately been left undetermined in the Holy Quran, will be formulated in the light of the Quranic principles, is answered by the direction given in the Holy Quran to Rasoolullah (PBUH) to "consult them (the believers) in the affairs (of the Society)" (3/15.

There are numerous instances recorded in Traditions showing how Rasoolullah (PBUH) consulted his Companions in the day-today affairs. This process of consultation was not confined to any particular sphere but covered all matters in which details were not given in the Holy Quran.

While he lived, Rasoolullah determined subsidiary laws in consultation with the Ummat. The question is as to what was to be done after his demise. The Holy Quran answers the question by saying, "Muhammad is but a Rasool. there have been several Rasool before him. Will you turn back on your heels if he dies or is slain?" (3/143). It follows that the process of framing laws within the frame-work of the Quranic principles was not to discontinue after the death of Rasoolullah but was to go on as before. Therefore, after his demise, the first thing the Companions did was to elect a Successor so that he could carry on the process of determining subsidiary laws and enforcing Divine Principles as did Rasoolullah himself. "One who obeys the Rasool obeys Allah" now took the form of "One who obeys the Rasool's successor obeys Allah". Rasoolullah himself is reported to have said "You have to follow my practice and the practice of my mature and rightly guided Successors", (Mishkat chapter on adherence to Book and Sunnah). The Holy Quran directed Rasoolullah to "consult the believers in determining the affairs of the people" (3/15; it guided his successors by saying "and they determine their affairs by mutual consultation" (42/3. "Mutual consultation" within the ambit of the eternal and inviolable Laws given in the Holy Quran is the "way of the believers" (4/115) which should never be given up.
There is material available in the record of traditions of Rasoolullah and the doings of his Companions to show how subsidiary laws were formulated under the Khilafat-e-Rashida. The procedure followed was

a) Where subsidiary law had not already been framed it was formulated by mutual consultation. For example no punishment was prescribed for drunkenness in the time of Rasoolullah. Hazrat Abu Bakr prescribed for it forty stripes, which Hazrat Umar later increased to eighty.

b) If a subsidiary law once enacted needed no amendment or change it was retained intact, just as any constitutional government would continue to enforce the laws of its predecessors until the need for a change arose.

c) Subsidiary enactments, which needed amendment in consequence of a change in circumstances, were duly modified. Since they were not prescribed initially by Revelation, it was not necessary that they should undergo changes through Revelation. Here are a few instances

-Rasoolullah had fixed the amount of ransom for prisoners of war at one Deenar per head. Hazrat Umar fixed different amounts for different parts of the State.
-Rasoolullah (PBUH) did not prescribe rates of Zakat for different varieties of produce of land. Hazrat Umar did so.
-For Taleef-i-Quloob, Rasoolullah used to give financial assistance from the State Exchequer. Hazrat Umar discontinued the practice.
-Rasoolullah distributed among the fighters the land acquired in certain conquered areas. Hazrat Umar abrogated this system.
-Rasoolullah allowed maintenance allowance at uniform rate. Hazrat Abu Bakr continued the practice. But Hazrat Umar re-fixed the rates in proportion to the services rendered by recipients.
-Rasoolullah did not realise Zakat on tradable horses and the produce of the sea. Hazrat Umar did it.
-Hazrat Umar decided that the scheduled punishment for offences should be made light for belligerents and that the punishment of manusection for theft should not be inflicted on the famine-stricken.

Instances of this kind can be multiplied if those measures are taken into account which Hazrat Umar introduced initially. Their number, according to historians, ranges between forty and fifty. This number, however, is not the issue. The real issue is that the rightly guided Successors of Rasoolullah accepted and worked according to the principle that the decisions taken during the time of Rasoolullah could be modified, if the changed circumstances so demanded. They extended the principle to the decisions taken among themselves, and a Successor felt no hesitation in amending the decisions of his predecessor.

arnoldyasin

Another example

IMAM ABU HANIFA

The verses of the Holy Quran coupled with the evidence provided by traditions and history, reproduced above, support fully the view that it is the fundamental law of the holy Quran which is unchangeable. In the case of subsidiary laws formulated under it, the Islamic state constituted on the pattern of that of Rasoolullah, can affect changes to suit its current requirements. In the excerpt from his Lectures noted above, Iqbal has pointedly mentioned Imam Abu Hanifa and Shah Waliullah, Muhaddith of Delhi, who also supported the above view. In volume 13, page 390, of his book on history, Khatib Baghdadi states on the strength of Yusuf b. Isbat that Abu Hanifa used to say that "had I been a contemporary of Rasoolullah, I am sanguine that he would have adopted many of my views, since Din (Allah's way of Life) is, after all, but another name for good and sound reasoning". The historian goes on to say that Abu Awana stated that "One day I was sitting by Abu Hanifa when the Sultan's messenger called on him and said that his master would like to know how the case of a man who has stolen a honey-comb should be adjudged. Abu Hanifa replied promptly `if the value of the honey-comb be ten dirhams sever his hand'. After the messenger had departed I said to Abu Hanifa "Are you not afraid of Allah? It has been reported to me by Yahya b. Said through Muhammad b. Haban and Rafi b. Khudaij, that Rasoolullah had said that for the theft of trifles like fruit and flowers, there can be no manusection. Hasten to help the man lest his hand be severed". Abu Hanifa reiterated calmly that "the view then taken has since lost its force". The thief suffered manusection.

Allah clearly told us that He gave Mohammad Al Kitab wa Al Hikmah and also other things that he never knew before, one of those things that humans didn?t know is how to perform the Salat for example, therefore Mohammad mission was to deliver those things to us in addition to the Quran and Hikmah as we will read in the Quran, let me start with verse 4113

Answer

The Quran tells us in some verses that the messenger was to give the knowledge of Al-Kitab and Al-Hikmah, i.e. the Book and the Wisdom. Al-Kitab or The Book refers to the Quran while Al-Hikmah or The Wisdom, is something other than the Quran and it is the un-recited, hidden revelation which the messenger received outside of the Quran and which is contained in the Books of traditions.

CLARIFICATION

When the Quran gives a concept then it does not leave it hanging in the air, but it also defines that concept. It is stated in certain verses of the Quran that the messenger of Allah was to give the knowledge of Al-Kitab and Hikmah. Now the Quran will itself define what is Al-Kitab, i.e. The Book or written laws, and what consists of Hikmah i.e. wisdom. The following verses inform us

"Our Sustainer! and raise up in them a messenger from among them who shall recite to them your verses and give them knowledge of The Book and the wisdom, and proivide development to their personalities; surely Thou art the Mighty, the Wise." (2129)

"Certainly Allah conferred a favour upon the believers when He raised among them a messenger from among themselves, reciting to them His verses and providing development to their personalities, and giving them the knowledge of the Book and the wisdom, although before that they were surely in manifest error." (3164)

In the above and many similar verses it is mentioned that the messenger is to give knowledge of the Book and the wisdom. The Book or Al-Kitab, refers to the Quran, as this is clarified in many other verses itself, e.g.

"Alif Lam Mim. That is The Book, (Al-Kitab) there is no perplexity in it, guidance to those who guard (against evil)." (21-2)

"And recite what has been revealed to you of the Book (Al-Kitab) of your Sustainer.." (1827)

But traditionalists imply that Hikmah or Wisdom in the previously mentioned verses refers to something other than Al-Kitab, hence it is another type of revelation which the messenger received. According to them, this revelation which is identified as Hikmah, is the un recited hidden revelation of God, and is not contained in the Quran but it is to be found in the books of traditions authenticated by their sect. However to term the books of traditions as Hikmah is very wrong as the Quran itself clarifies what is Hikmah, as we shall see.
The claim that Hikmah is some revelation outside of the Quran is refuted by Allah Himself when after stating the divine values of the Quran, He says

<Za_lika mimma_ auha_ ilaika rabbuka minal hikmah(ti), wa la_ taj'al ma'alla_hi ila_han a_khara fa tulqa_ fi jahannama malu_mam madhu_ra>

"This is of what your Sustainer has revealed to you of Hikmah (wisdom), and do not associate any other god with Allah lest you should be thrown into hell, blamed, cast away." (1739)

Thus the above verse identifies the Quran itself to be Hikmah, and it is confirmed that Hikmah is simply another attribute of the Book of Allah. In Surah Al-Qamar this is again repeated

"There have already come to them Recitals wherein there is (enough) to check (them). Mature wisdom <Hikmat ul baaligha> but (the preaching of) Warners profits them not." (544-5)

Finally those who are under the misconception that Hikmah is <wahy ghayr matlu> i.e. the "un recited revelation" outside of the Quran, are clarified in the following verse that Hikmah is also <wahy matlu> i.e. recited revelation and is contained within the folds of Allah's Book, not outside of it. The wives of Nabi (S.A.W) are reminded

"And bear in mind that which is recited in your houses of the revelations of Allah and wisdom. Lo! Allah is Subtile, Aware." (3334)

The above verse clearly states that along with the Ayat of Allah, Hikmah was also recited in the homes of the wives of Nabi (S.A.W), thus this nullifies the claim that Hikmah consists of ?un recited revelation?.

The Quran makes it evident that Hikmah is not some revelation outside of the Quran, but is simply another attribute of the Quran itself. All the messengers of Allah, received Al-Kitab i.e. the written laws and injunctions for governing human society, but along with the law, Allah also gave the wisdom or rationale behind that law. Since the law of Allah was not meant to be applied forcefully upon people, and it is something that the people have to accept using their faculties of reason and free will, therefore whenever the Quran ordaines a law, it also gives the wisdom or reason behind it and asks us to reflect upon the benefits we derive by implementing the divine law in our societies. E.g. After giving the injunctions for modest dress for women, the Quran states the wisdom or Hikmat behind that law as

"..This (dress code) will be more proper, that they may be recognised, and thus they will not be given trouble.." (3359)

Similarly the rationale i.e the Hikmat behind the prohibition of intoxicants and games of chance is identified when it is stated

<Yas'alu_naka 'anil khamri wal maisir(i), qul fihima_ ismun kabir>

"They ask thee concerning intoxicants and gambling. Say "In them is great enervation" (2219)

The above verse identifies intoxicants, i.e. liquor, drugs, gambling etc as "Ism" , an Arabic word which means "Enervation" i.e. such a thing which produces weakness and atrophy in something. And it is no secret what gambling, drugs and alcoholic drinks are doing to human society nowdays. Thus Allah asks us to think, ponder and reflect on the benefits of implementing His laws and even gives the wisdom behind the divine injunctions. That is why among the often repeated attributes of the Qur?n, one is <Al-Hakeem>, that is, "The Book of Wisdom", as the following verses identify

"Ya Seen. I swear by the Quran full of wisdom. Most surely you are one of the messengers." (361-3)

"Alif Lam Mim. These are verses of the Book of Wisdom. A guidance and a mercy for the doers of goodness," (311-3)

Thus it is evident from the above that Hikmah is not some un recited revelation outside of the Quran, but one of the attributes of Allah's Book it self and refers to the rationale and wisdom that is given behind the divine laws. Those who insist upon claiming that Hikmah refers to the books of traditions of their sect, should be asked, that in the Quran, Allah says that He gave Hikmah to David (2215), Jesus (34, The Followers of Abraham (454), Luqman (3112) etc, So were all these people given the books of traditions of a certain sect if Hikmah is implied to be as such?

Every tribe, city, household has their own sunna or habits. And the Quran is the guide to the ways (sunna) of the ones who had become before Muhammed.

One SUNNA of the ones before us
2183. O you who believe, fasting has been decreed for you as it was decreed for those before you, perhaps you may be righteous.

Two SUNNA
634. Messengers before you were denied, but they were patient for what they were denied, and they were harmed until Our victory came to them; there is no changing the words of God. News of the messengers has come to you.

God wants to make clear for you and guide you to the ways of those before you, and pardon you, and God is Knowledgeable, Wise.

For example, Moses's SUNNA
2843. We had given Moses the Scripture after We had destroyed the earlier generations; as an example for the people and a guidance and mercy, perhaps they will take heed.

Moses said to his people Seek help with God, and be patient; for the land is God?s, He will inherit it to whom He pleases of His servants; and the end will be to the righteous.?
He exited the city, afraid and watchful. He said ?My Lord, save me from the wicked people.?
And as he traveled towards Midyan, he said ?Perhaps my Lord will guide me to the right path.

Or Abraham's SUNNA
2916. And Abraham when he said to his people Serve God and be aware of Him, that is better for you if you knew.?

There has been a good example set for you by Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people We are innocent from you and what you serve besides God. We have rejected you, and it appears that there shall be animosity and hatred between us and you until you believe in God alone.? Except for the saying of Abraham to his father I will ask forgiveness for you, but I do not possess any power to protect you from God.Our Lord, we have put our trust in You, and we turn to You, and to You is the final destiny.
Our Lord, do not let us become a test for those who rejected, and forgive us. Our Lord, You are the Noble, the Wise.
Certainly, a good example has been set by them for those who seek God and the Last Day. And whosoever turns away, then God is the Rich, the Praiseworthy.

Does the Quran not have all the sunna's of the prophets which are important for us to know? Muhammed was taught by the Quran of the things they did not knew.

O Mary, be devoted to your Lord and prostrate and kneel with those who kneel.
This is from the news of the unseen that We inspire to you. You were not with them when they drew straws as to which one of them will be charged with Mary; you were not with them when they disputed.

These are the things we did not knew. Things we did not know about Josef

That is from the news of the unseen that We inspire to you. You were not amongst them when they arranged their plan and were scheming.

This is a traditionalist claim someone made to me

From the above no one can deny that Allah said to His prophet that He sent the Quran to him to explain to us what we differ and surely the Quran is one of the things that believers will differ in it, ? ?, therefore and clearly the prophet had another mission in addition to the delivery of the Quran, and because the explanation was ASSOCIATED with the Quran only as seen from 1664, then we can use the Quran to qualify what we know about the hadith with ease. In fact one of the hadith that I read confirms that simple fact, that the Quran qualifies the hadith, this is common sense that the words of the Creator should qualify the words of His creatures. It won?t make any sense if taken the other way around.

Yes , it is true that it is Muhammed that explained to them what they differed about, but where does he get his knowledge from?

1664 And We have not revealed to you the Book EXCEPT that you may make clear to them (explain) that about which they differ, and (as) a guidance and a mercy for a people who believe.

He must use the Book to explain to them. It is Muhammed's voice, but it is the Quran from where he get's his knowledge from to explain it to them. It is the same as saying"I explain to you, through the Quran that this appraoch is wrong." Is it me that explained it? YES. But did i use any knowledge besides the Quran? NO. Is the sentence thus formed that it clearly shows that i explain it? YES. Does this mean i didn't use the Quran? NO.
The verse says it so clearly, it is even scary you miss this. Let's use this in a sentence again with different wordings. "I have written this post, only so you can explain to them about why not following hadith as wahi."

Does this in any way imply to something else next to my post? NO. Does it imply that the purpose of this post is to use it to explain to others? YES. It clearly says; This post is given, SO you can explain it to them. The exact same thing implies for verse 1664. The Quran was revealed to Muhammed only so he can explain to them things USING the Quran. Is it still Muhammed to them that explained it? Yes, it is his voice. Does it in any way imply to other explanations outside of the Quran? Certainly not.

THE QURAN HAS EVERYTHING THAT IS REQUIRED FOR DIVINE GUIDANCE

"And We have revealed the Book to you which has the clear explanation of everything, and a guidance and mercy and good news for those who submit." (1689)

"In their (all the messengers mentioned in the Quran) narratives there is certainly a lesson for people of understanding. It is not a 'Hadith' which could be forged, but a verification of what is before it and a distinct explanation of all things and a guide and a mercy to a people who believe." (12111)

THE QURAN DOES NOT LACK "TAFSEEL" (DETAILED ELUCIDATION)

"Shall I then seek a Ruler other than Allah? When He it is Who has revealed to you the Book (which is) distinctly elucidated <Kitab an Muffasalla>." (6114)

"And certainly We have brought them a Book which We have detailed<Fassalnahu> with knowledge, a guidance and a mercy for a people who believe." (752)

"A Book of which the verses are distinctly elucidated <fussilat ayatahu>, an Arabic Quran for a people who know." (413)

"Indeed We have made the revelations distinct for a people who take reminder <qad fassalnal ayyati li qaumin yazekerun>". " (6126)

"Thus do We make the revelations distinct for a people who reflect. <nuffasil ul ayyati li qaumin ya-tafekerun>" (1024)

"Thus do We make the revelations distinct for a people who use their reason. <nuffasil ul ayyati li qaumin ya-qilun> " (302

"And this Quran is not such as could be forged by those besides Allah, but it is a verification of that which is before it and a distinct elucidation of the book <Tafseel al-Kitab>, there is no doubt in it, from the Sustainer of the worlds." (1037)

"So leave Me and him who rejects this Hadith; We will overtake them by degrees, from whence they perceive not." (6844)

"In which Hadith, then, after it, will they believe?" (7750)

"Do they not consider the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and whatever things Allah has created, and that may be their doom shall have drawn nigh; In which Hadith would they then believe in after this?" (7185)

"Is it not enough for them that We have revealed to you the Book which is recited to them? Most surely there is mercy in this and a reminder for a people who believe." (2951)

This is a mix of several books and my own comments and statements.

Sources

Authority of the Quran by Kashif Ahmed Shehzada
http//members.tripod.com/lebou/authorityof.htm

Obedience to the Prophet by Dr. Mansoor Alam
http//www.tolueislam.com/Bazm/Mansoor/MA_obedience_to_the_prophet_I.htm
http//www.tolueislam.com/Bazm/Mansoor/MA_obedience_to_the_prophet_II.htm
http//www.tolueislam.com/Bazm/Mansoor/MA_obedience_to_the_prophet_III.htm

The Basis of Legislation in an Islamic State by GA Parwez
http//www.tolueislam.com/Parwez/articles/Basis_of_legislation.htm

unknownuser

Tasreef of the term 'Obey the Messenger'

Peace Arnold,

To summarize the above in one clear verse?

Qul ateeAAoo Allaha waateeAAoo alrrasoola fain tawallaw fainnama AAalayhi ma hummila waAAalaykum ma hummiltum wain tuteeAAoohu tahtadoo wama AAala alrrasooli illa albalaghu almubeena

2454 Say "Obey Allah, and OBEY THE MESSENGER. but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance. The Messenger's duty is only to preach the clear (Message).

hlatif

bad translation.

Balagh carries with it two meanings delivery and making clear. So, He delivered and He made it clear in many ways.

Hussein

Jack

So, He delivered and He made it clear in many ways.

thru al quran

7516 Do not move your tongue with it to make haste.
7517 It is for Us to gather it into a compilation.
7518 So when We compile it, you shall follow its compilation.
7519 Then it is for Us to explain it.

Abu_Zahrah

Arnold Yasin, first I want to truly commend you on your research, and the effort you put forth in your presentation. It was academically impressive.

However, and you know this phrase, (I would suppose), "KALIMA TUL HAQQ, WA YURI DU BIHIL BATIL. A statement of truth, while he desires by it falsehood.

Much of what you stated, about what some of the Scholars of Islam presented were true. Obviously the Ayat from the Qur'an were true. The brief sketch of the Hadith compilers were true. BUT YOUR CONCLUSIONS IN USE OF THESE SOURCES WERE NOT!!!

In your entire presentation, or your explanation to the chorus on how to explain to the "Sunni or Shi'a on why not following the Hadith as wahi, you never dealt with the spiritual aspect of the Messengers (S) role. And you know why, because it would discredit your whole argument if you even attempted to do so. And this is consistant with your line of reasoning. For you stated in your big post in the other thread the following about Hajj, which by the way was absolute rhetoric, but this is how you began;

"We all know the Prophet's biggest mission was a social one, liberate the slaves, the women, help the poor, crerate a fair system of Life where everyone is equal..

My friend Arnold, where did you get this line from? What Ayah said that His (S) biggest mission was a social one? But can one see you train of thought. You went from His mission to being a social one, and now the obedience to Him is political. This is very indicative of what kind of background you have. But where is the spiritual reality of His (S) mission. I have yet to see you post anything on it. Rather the contrary, everything is MUNDANE to you, and the rest of the flock. And this leads me to my point about your last presentation, which I think can sum it all up. And this is the point that is ALWAYS NEGLECTED AND DOWNPLAYED. That is; HOW DO YOU OBEY THE INJUNCTIONS OF ALLAH IN THE QUR'AN ABOUT THE ACTS OF WORSHIP, LIKE PRAYER, ZAKAH, FASTING, HAJJ ETC. IF YOU DON'T GET IT FROM THE LIFE AND ACTIONS AND STATEMENTS OF THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH (S)? Please tell me, how can you make hajj, as commanded by ALLAH from JUST READING THE QUR'AN? Please, give me the Ayah, anyone! GIVE ME THE AYAH!!! GIVE ME THE AYAH ON ZAKAH, ON WHEN TO PAY IT AND HOW MUCH ONE MUST OWN OR HAVE TO BECOME ABLE TO PAY ZAKAH? GIVE ME THE AYAH!!! GIVE ME THE AYAH ON THE PRAYER AND HOW IT IS TO BE PERFORMED. HOW MANY UNITS (RAKA'AH) FOR THIS PRAYER AND HOW MANY FOR THAT PRAYER? THE FUNERAL PRAYER, AND OTHERS PRAYERS? GIVE ME THE AYAH!!! YOU CAN'T BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
These details of worship it addressed in the life and Sunnah of the Messenger (S), and you are oppose to His Sunnah, you can never fulfill these injunctions of worship as ALLAH commanded. NEVER!!! No matter what you think.

And also, my friend Arnold, about your post of Surah Tur (52) where you stated;

"History says the Quran was written on small pieces of stone, leaves and other poor mediums. The Quran says

Fee raqqin manshoorin
523 Written on fine parchment, unrolled, open for everyone to read,
widely published.

Who told you that this was in reference to the Qur'an? Again, where did you get this from? Not another Ayah, that is for sure! This Ayah is talking about the, 'Lawh Mahfuth'. The Preserved Tablet, in which the records of ALL things is written therein. So how do you put this Ayah on the Qur'an and then even worse, try to negate confirmed history by it. Again, it just goes to show how shallow you people are. And since you are visiting Surah Tur, which is a very beloved Surah to me. Can you tell me from the Qur'an what is the meaning of the very next Ayah of what you quoted? You quoted Ayat 2-3, but what is the meaning of Ayah 4? What is Baitul Ma'mur? The Frequented House. And no, it is not in reference to the Ka'aba either. Is the answer to this in the Qur'an?

My friend Arnold, your agenda is very worldly and political and through these lenses you view the Qur'an, while although the Qur'an deals with the mundane, it is a spiritual Book for the heart and guidance of Humanity. Along with this is acts of worship that opens us pathways the arrive at the spiritual truths. But with your worldy agenda, it is obvious that you have been neglected in this. Ponder over what ALLAH states in the Qur'an;

"And of the people is he whose speech pleases you in worldly life, and he calls ALLAH to witness as to what is in his heart, yet he is the fiercest of opponents". (2204)

Navid

That is; HOW DO YOU OBEY THE INJUNCTIONS OF ALLAH IN THE QUR'AN ABOUT THE ACTS OF WORSHIP, LIKE PRAYER, ZAKAH, FASTING, HAJJ ETC. IF YOU DON'T GET IT FROM THE LIFE AND ACTIONS AND STATEMENTS OF THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH (S)? Please tell me, how can you make hajj, as commanded by ALLAH from JUST READING THE QUR'AN? Please, give me the Ayah, anyone! GIVE ME THE AYAH!!! GIVE ME THE AYAH ON ZAKAH, ON WHEN TO PAY IT AND HOW MUCH ONE MUST OWN OR HAVE TO BECOME ABLE TO PAY ZAKAH? GIVE ME THE AYAH!!! GIVE ME THE AYAH ON THE PRAYER AND HOW IT IS TO BE PERFORMED. HOW MANY UNITS (RAKA'AH) FOR THIS PRAYER AND HOW MANY FOR THAT PRAYER? THE FUNERAL PRAYER, AND OTHERS PRAYERS? GIVE ME THE AYAH!!! YOU CAN'T BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have responded to this illogical argument in the other thread and no one responded. It really is not that hard to see through once you put away pre-conceived notions and gain a sense of logic

Abu_Zahrah

Openmind,

you said you responded to my request, you did? When? Where? What? You mean you provided me with an Ayah or Ayat on the injunctions of the acts of worship? Please re-post it for me because I really did miss that. Not another Ayah on the Qur'an is clear and in detail. Please! Get a sense of sophistication at least. You people perform like robots to say the least...

Provide me with Ayat that teaches me my worship to ALLAH as HE has commanded. In Detail as performed by the Messenger of ALLAH (S), and as He instructed. This is all I am asking for. But NOBODY CAN PROVIDE IT. ALLAH commands us to attend Jumu'ah. HE says when the call is proclaimed; What call? Is this call explained in the Qur'an? Well, how will you learn it? After it is proclaimed, hasten to the Remembrance of ALLAH, (Jumu'ah Prayer) Is this Prayer explained id DETAIL in the Qur'an? How will one learn how to do it? And so much more. It is not as you people say and think! IT IS AS IT IS!!! AND IT HAS BEEN THAT WAY SINCE THE TIME OF THE MESSENGER UP UNITL TODAY. PEOPLE HAVE BEEN PRAYING THIS SAME WAY, FOLLOWING THE MESSENGER FOR THE PAST 14 CENTURIES. PEOPLE HAVE BEEN CONDUCTING AND ATTENDING JUMU'AH PRAYER FOR THE SAME. PEOPLE HAVE BEEN CALLING THE ATHAN FOR THE SAME. PEOPLE HAVE BEEN MAKING HAJJ FOR THE SAME, AND ON AND ON. PLEASE, I AM PLEADING WITH YOU NOW. WHERE IN THE QUR'AN CAN ONE LEARN HOW TO DO THESE ACTS OF WORSHIP IN THE MANNER OF THE PROPHET (S)? AND SINCE ALLAH HAS REPEATEDLY COMMANDED US TO OBEY AND FOLLOW HIM, THIS IS WHAT WE DO, BECAUSE ALLAH COMMANDED IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OPENMIND, IF YOU CAN'T PRODUCE THESE AYAT OR ADMIT THAT THESE THINGS ARE FOUND IN THE SUNNAH OF THE MESSENGER (S) AND THERE IS WHERE WE LEARN THEM AND APPLY THEM, THEN PLEASE SAVE YOUR RESPONSE. BECAUSE YOU ARE ONLY MAKING A FOOL OF YOURSELF. THE REQUEST IS CLEAR. PRODUCE OR ADMIT YOU PEOPLE ARE DEFICIENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Navid

To use this argument is to say that God did not finish the job in the Quran. The Quran is complete. If the Quran does not give a certain detail that YOU personally want, that does not mean we need extra religious sources. The Quran leaves it to the reader to adjust as long as all other Quranic laws are followed. This even brings out the beauty of how universal Islam is. It is the ultimate, universal deen. The deen of submission to God. However, relying on 7th century Arab traditions isolates people and is not universal. This is simple logic, I don't know how clearer I can get. You are using information that is in the hadith to show that we need hadith. This is circular. The Quran is complete, detailed. Nothing was left out. Just because you personally wish for something to be answered, that does not mean the Quran is not complete. The reader is left to adjust.

I feel like you're yelling. Really, there is no need for that. Just a discussion.

Peace

arnoldyasin

Salaam Aleikum,

PRAYER?

http//www.free-minds.org/articles/quranic/salat.htm

This article is complete, it explains all the Ayahs involved, the amount of Rakaah, the timings. All of it.

ZAKAH?

? And they ask you what they should give. Say, "All that is surplus."

2219 They ask you (O Messenger), concerning alcohol, intoxicants, games of chance, and gambling and money earned without labor. Say, ?There is great detriment in these things as well as some benefits for mankind. But the detriment of them is much greater than the benefit of them. They drag down the individual and collective social potential.? And they ask you what they should give. Say, "All that is surplus." Thus Allah makes His Messages plain for you, that you may reflect -

6141 And He is the One Who initiated gardens; both trellised and untrellised; and palm trees, and plants, all with different taste; and olives and pomegranates, similar and not similar. Eat from its fruit when it blossoms and give its due on the day of harvest; and do not waste. He does not like the wasteful.

There is no percentage given in the Quran for Zakah as this is determined by the need of the State. The People must give what they can spare, leaving the responsibility to themselves and they must pay this on the day they receive their payment, be it in crops or money.

FASTING?

2183 O you who believe, fasting is decreed for you as it was decreed for those before you perhaps you may be righteous.
2184 A few number of days. Whoever of you is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days; and as for those who can do so but with difficulty, they may redeem by feeding the needy. And whoever does good voluntarily, then it is better for him. And if you fast it is better for you if you knew.
2185 A month in early autumn, in which the Quran was sent down as a guide to the people and a clarification of the guidance and the criterion. Therefore, whoever of you can observe the season, then let him fast therein. And whoever is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days. God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count, and glorify God for what He has guided you, that you may be thankful.
2187 It has been made lawful for you during the night of fasting to approach your women sexually. They are a garment for you and you are a garment for them. God knows that you used to betray your souls so He has accepted your repentance, and forgiven you; now you may approach them and seek what God has written for you. And you may eat and drink until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn; then you shall complete the fast until night; and do not approach them while you are devoted in the temples. These are God's boundaries, so do not transgress them. It is thus that God makes His revelations clear to the people that they may be righteous.

Do you need more then the above rules? All the little details you will probably demand to see are not in the Quran because they do not belong in Islam as Allah does not forget.

HAJJ?

I already completely explianed it in my article. All the relevant verses are given. If you again demand to know where are the details that are present in the current Hajj, then again, God does not forget, they do not belong in Islam and most can be traced to pagan rituals of the Arabs.

All the other demands you give as funeral prayer are all not in the Quran as God does not deem them part of Islam. Humans have made them part of Islam.

You can scream and shout, but the Quran contains all answers (12111). That it does not always give the same answer as is given in Sunnism or the other sects, is because they follow man-made rules and not the Quranic system of Life. If you cannot accept this possibility, then I remind you of 1736 and...

2170 And if they are told "Follow what God has sent down," they Say "No, we will follow what we found our fathers doing!" What if their fathers did not understand anything and were not guided?

5104 And if they are told "Come to what God has sent down, and to the messenger;" they Say "We are content with what we found our fathers doing." What if their fathers did not know anything nor were guided?

6148 Those who have set up partners will Say "If God wished, we would not have set up partners, nor would have our fathers, nor would we have forbidden anything." Those before them lied in the same way, until they tasted Our might. Say "Do you have any knowledge to bring out to us? You only follow conjecture, you only guess."

728 And if they commit evil acts, they Say "We found our fathers doing such, and God ordered us to it." Say "God does not order evil! Do you say about God what you do not know?"
770 They said "Have you come to us to serve God alone and abandon what our fathers had served? Bring us what you promise if you are of the truthful ones!"

1078 They said "Have you come to us to turn us away from that which we found our fathers upon, and so that you two would have greatness in the land? We will not believe in you."

1162 They said "O Saleh, you were well liked amongst us before this. Do you deter us from serving what our fathers served? We are in serious doubt as to what you are inviting us."
1187 They said "O Shu'ayb, does your contact-method order you that we leave what our fathers served, or that we do not do with our money as we please? You are the compassionate, the sane!"
11109 So do not be in doubt as to what these men serve. They serve nothing but what their fathers before them served. We will give them their recompense in full

1.The Quran and all its goals are meant for us to unite mankind on Earth. so we can create Paradise here, which will be continued in the Next Life. The Quran only explains Allah, not how we should acknowledge Him through rituals.

2.The Quran is complete and detailed.

Aleikum Salaam

Raj-ah

Indeed Quran is complete and detailed.
Nice work Arnold Mol.

For example
When discussing it with one Ahl-e-HAdith personality about "Wudu" he said that how can you make a full "wudu" without the help of Hadith and Sunnah, he was unable to understand that the full wudu is in Quran and rest is addition, but during discuusion he even passed the remarks that in some aspects Quran is incomplete and Prophet had to complete it by doing the practical. Well he is not to be blamed 100% it is what he is taught from child hood.

Some thing you ask more than that of Quran is addition or deletion in the words of God if you believe so.

But that does not undermines the importance of Hadith and Sunnah in any case, we can't just reject 3/4 of the Islamic history just right away without doing the research.

Arnold wrote

O you who believe, obey God and the Prophet and those in authority among you; and if you are at variance over something, refer it to God and the Messenger, if you believe in God and the Last Day. This is good for you and the best of settlement.

So we now have these very important issues gained from our research

The Quran contains the complete timeless Code of Law for the Islamic Ummah.
No outside Revelation is given to the Messenger, only the Quran.
We must obey the Messenger.
We must obey the Leaders of the Islamic State.

"Obey those in authority among you"

I think this refers to the persons who are "Masters" of their fields such as "Doctors" , "Scientists" "LAw makers", "Imams" etc.

So to what realm does obeying the Messenger refer too? Muhammed was the ruler of the Islamic State. People had to swear an oath to accept him as their leader, he was chosen

Does Quran allows an Islamic state?

Yes! according to you, and Muhammad was the leader of first Islamic state, then how come you ignore his SUNNAH??, he was the Model for a new state.
For example
When the Quran set this high goal for humanity it also provided working principles for achieving it in the human world. This is what the Prophet accomplished with the help of his companions. He created a true multiethnic and multiracial society for the first time in human history. The ultimate goal, of course, was to include all humanity in this ideal. By knocking out all barriers political, social, economical, and geographical a global society could be created based on equality and freedom for all human beings. This, then is the Sunnah. Our practice of Sunnah must lead to this goal set by the Quran and implemented by the Prophet. Otherwise, we belie Islam (1071-7) as well as the Sunnah of the Prophet.

When you study critically any government especially the one which is the first Government of its kind, how can you ignore the life, the events the chracters of that time, which were part and parcel of that government; you simply cannot.
Now to dig out truth from falsehood from that heap of work is our duty as I always say, which is very difficult, the reason most of us chose the easy way by saying "HADITH AND SUNNAH IS A TRASH".

454 Say "Obey Allah, and OBEY THE MESSENGER. but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance. The Messenger's duty is only to preach the clear (Message).

arnoldyasin

Salaam Aleikum,

I do study the history of Islam, but I will never see anything outside of the Quran as Divine. The history of Medina is important and of course we must learn from it, just as we must learn from all history as the Quran continiously points out.

The question is not "Should we completely ignore history?", certainly not. I have learned much from studying the Prophet's history and behaviour, but I do not see that History as Wahi, Revelation. This is the whole point.

We must learn to see the difference between history and Wahi, and also that the Quran is the Furqan, the Criterion. So the Quran can never be looked through the glasses of tradition and history as is done now. We must look at all things, be it science, history or traditions, through the glasses of the Quran.

Mazhar

Ideas and ideology is corrupted in the passage of time through corrupting the perception and meanings of the words used in describing that ideology. By translating the word emanating from the Root ? ? as ?obey? at most of the places, we have distorted the entire idea. The perception conveyed by the English word ?obey? is to follow instruction or behave in accordance with the law or rules; be controlled by somebody or something. And for ?? {Root } we translate it as ?follow? which also means ?obey someone or something?. These two English words squeeze/shorten the distance and distinction between the Arabic words and .

Both these Arabic words are distinct from each other in nature and character. One refers to theory and the other relates to practical. is a physical act; following the footsteps or acting in the manner described in the statement/hadith {meaning saying}.

Act is always a second step not the first. We act on the thing which we have consciously and open heartedly accepted. We first listen to the word of Allah said by his Messenger and decide to accept or turn away from it. When we accept it then we follow it. We have never been asked to ?? for Allah but we have been asked to ?? Messenger and that has been explained that ?? the Book and do not follow other . Over a period of time many people assumed the status of by spreading fascinating things to attract people around them and then it became a tradition fully absorbed into the blood of the posterity.

The Book is the ?Hadith? {saying} of Allah uttered as ?? of the Messenger. There can be no ?? unless there existed previously a ?Hadith?. Therefore ?? of the Messenger is the Hadith of Allah. When we accept the words of Messenger stated by him from the Quran we actually accept the Hadith of Allah and then we?? it.

The issue has been discussed in detail in a 22 page article in Urdu at site
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/book_6/21/slides/1.html

Raj-ah

Salaam

Arnold;

I do study the history of Islam, but I will never see anything outside of the Quran as Divine. The history of Medina is important and of course we must learn from it, just as we must learn from all history as the Quran continiously points out.

The question is not "Should we completely ignore history?", certainly not. I have learned much from studying the Prophet's history and behaviour, but I do not see that History as Wahi, Revelation. This is the whole point.

And that is my point too.
May Allah give you more strength and guidance in your work.

Leoxyz

Another example

IMAM ABU HANIFA

Answer

The Quran tells us in some verses that the messenger was to give the knowledge of Al-Kitab and Al-Hikmah, i.e. the Book and the Wisdom. Al-Kitab or The Book refers to the Quran while Al-Hikmah or The Wisdom, is something other than the Quran and it is the un-recited, hidden revelation which the messenger received outside of the Quran and which is contained in the Books of traditions.

CLARIFICATION

When the Quran gives a concept then it does not leave it hanging in the air, but it also defines that concept. It is stated in certain verses of the Quran that the messenger of Allah was to give the knowledge of Al-Kitab and Hikmah. Now the Quran will itself define what is Al-Kitab, i.e. The Book or written laws, and what consists of Hikmah i.e. wisdom. The following verses inform us

"Our Sustainer! and raise up in them a messenger from among them who shall recite to them your verses and give them knowledge of The Book and the wisdom, and proivide development to their personalities; surely Thou art the Mighty, the Wise." (2129)

"Certainly Allah conferred a favour upon the believers when He raised among them a messenger from among themselves, reciting to them His verses and providing development to their personalities, and giving them the knowledge of the Book and the wisdom, although before that they were surely in manifest error." (3164)

Peace
The actual verses are as below
2129

3164
Would you let me know how have you translated my highlighted lines of your translation ??
{probably it is the reason you people do not put actual Quranic text because you cannot dodge as easily you try to do}
Waiting for reply

unknownuser

{probably it is the reason you people do not put actual Quranic text because you cannot dodge as easily you try to do}
Waiting for reply

I?m sure brother Arnold will reply and since you said ?you people? ? therefore?

http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/2/129

http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/3/164

http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/3/48
348

WayuAAallimuhu alkitaba waalhikmata waalttawrata waal-injeela
And He teaches/instructs him The Book and the wisdom and the Torah and the Bible/Holy book descended on Jesus .

http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/3/81
381 Behold! Allah took the covenant of the prophets, saying "I give you a BOOK AND WISDOM; then comes to you an apostle, confirming what is with you; do ye believe in him and render him help." Allah said "Do ye agree, and take this my Covenant as binding on you?" They said "We agree." He said "Then bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses."

Thus, all Prophets (God bless them) received ?The Book and the Wisdom" and ?The Balance? of right and wrong (5725; 4217) referring to revelation.

http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/27/1
Taseen tilka ayatu alqurani wakitabin mubeenin
271 Ta Sin! These are the verses of the Quran and the Book that makes (things) clear

http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/36/2
Waalqur-ani alhakeemi
362 By the Qur'an, full of Wisdom,-

Say or ?qul? appears 100s of times in Qur?an and numerous verses start; ?they ask thee?say? thus Qur'an (al kitab) ? a book full of Wisdom (a God gift); The Scripture and sunna according to God and that of the Prophets was sent to make clear and teach us.

Perhaps you have ?stories? worthy to append to Qur?an ? if so, post ONE in its entirety with all other references to it and tell why it should be Holy Scripture.

It?s really a simple matter?

http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/17/88

http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/17/89
1789 And indeed We have fully explained to mankind, in this Quran, every kind of similitude, but most mankind refuse (the truth and accept nothing) but disbelief.

Unless of course you?re talking about stories for historical perspective which all history is hearsay according to someone and not ?The Bible Truth? or ?Hadith Qudsi? as some calls it.

Awaiting reply?

Peace

Leoxyz

I?m sure brother Arnold will reply and since you said ?you people? ? therefore?

http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/2/129

http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/3/164

http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/3/48
348

WayuAAallimuhu alkitaba waalhikmata waalttawrata waal-injeela
And He teaches/instructs him The Book and the wisdom and the Torah and the Bible/Holy book descended on Jesus .

http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/3/81
381 Behold! Allah took the covenant of the prophets, saying "I give you a BOOK AND WISDOM; then comes to you an apostle, confirming what is with you; do ye believe in him and render him help." Allah said "Do ye agree, and take this my Covenant as binding on you?" They said "We agree." He said "Then bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses."

Thus, all Prophets (God bless them) received ?The Book and the Wisdom" and ?The Balance? of right and wrong (5725; 4217) referring to revelation.

http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/27/1
Taseen tilka ayatu alqurani wakitabin mubeenin
271 Ta Sin! These are the verses of the Quran and the Book that makes (things) clear

http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/36/2
Waalqur-ani alhakeemi
362 By the Qur'an, full of Wisdom,-

Say or ?qul? appears 100s of times in Qur?an and numerous verses start; ?they ask thee?say? thus Qur'an (al kitab) ? a book full of Wisdom (a God gift); The Scripture and sunna according to God and that of the Prophets was sent to make clear and teach us.

Perhaps you have ?stories? worthy to append to Qur?an ? if so, post ONE in its entirety with all other references to it and tell why it should be Holy Scripture.

It?s really a simple matter?

http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/17/88

http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/17/89
1789 And indeed We have fully explained to mankind, in this Quran, every kind of similitude, but most mankind refuse (the truth and accept nothing) but disbelief.

Unless of course you?re talking about stories for historical perspective which all history is hearsay according to someone and not ?The Bible Truth? or ?Hadith Qudsi? as some calls it.

Awaiting reply?

Peace

Dear
Unfortunately my question is still unanswered

I put it again

Another example

IMAM ABU HANIFA

Answer

The Quran tells us in some verses that the messenger was to give the knowledge of Al-Kitab and Al-Hikmah, i.e. the Book and the Wisdom. Al-Kitab or The Book refers to the Quran while Al-Hikmah or The Wisdom, is something other than the Quran and it is the un-recited, hidden revelation which the messenger received outside of the Quran and which is contained in the Books of traditions.

CLARIFICATION

When the Quran gives a concept then it does not leave it hanging in the air, but it also defines that concept. It is stated in certain verses of the Quran that the messenger of Allah was to give the knowledge of Al-Kitab and Hikmah. Now the Quran will itself define what is Al-Kitab, i.e. The Book or written laws, and what consists of Hikmah i.e. wisdom. The following verses inform us

"Our Sustainer! and raise up in them a messenger from among them who shall recite to them your verses and give them knowledge of The Book and the wisdom, and proivide development to their personalities; surely Thou art the Mighty, the Wise." (2129)

"Certainly Allah conferred a favour upon the believers when He raised among them a messenger from among themselves, reciting to them His verses and providing development to their personalities, and giving them the knowledge of the Book and the wisdom, although before that they were surely in manifest error." (3164)

Peace
The actual verses are as below
2129

3164
Would you let me know how have you translated my highlighted lines of your translation ??
"Giving them the knowledge of book and wisdom"
Which word of Arabic is translated as "giving"?
I do not need 'www.blablablabla. I need exact word whose meaning has been translated "giving" by the "Quran lovers"
{probably it is the reason you people do not put actual Quranic text because you cannot dodge as easily you try to do}
Waiting for reply

unknownuser

Dear
Unfortunately my question is still unanswered

I put it again

Peace
The actual verses are as below
2129

3164
Would you let me know how have you translated my highlighted lines of your translation ??
"Giving them the knowledge of book and wisdom"
Which word of Arabic is translated as "giving"?
I do not need 'www.blablablabla. I need exact word whose meaning has been translated "giving" by the "Quran lovers"
{probably it is the reason you people do not put actual Quranic text because you cannot dodge as easily you try to do}
Waiting for reply

Dearest ? it?s polite to answer questions posted to you as well.

From www.blablablabla which has ?actual Quranic text? you requested?

al-Baqarah (The Cow) 2129
2129

Transliteration Rabbana waibAAath feehim rasoolan minhum yatloo AAalayhim ayatika wayuAAallimuhumu alkitaba waalhikmata wayuzakkeehim innaka anta alAAazeezu alhakeemu
Literal Our Lord, and send in them a messenger from them (who) reads/recites on (to) them Your verses/evidences and He teaches/instructs them The Book , and the wisdom , and purifies them , that You are the glorious/mighty the wise/ judicious.

al-Imran (The Family of Imran, The House of Imran) 3164
3164

Transliteration Laqad manna Allahu AAala almu/mineena ith baAAatha feehim rasoolan min anfusihim yatloo AAalayhim ayatihi wayuzakkeehim wayuAAallimuhumu alkitaba waalhikmata wa-in kanoo min qablu lafee dalalin mubeenin
Literal God had blessed on the believers, when He sent in them a messenger from themselves, he reads/recites on them His verses/evidences and he purifies/corrects them, and he teaches/instructs them The Book ,and the wisdom , and if they were from before in (E) a clear/evident misguidance.

How are people to be taught and where are these guaranteed by God ?authentic? instructions?

Re-read prior post and answer the simple questions.

Say or ?qul? appears 100s of times in Qur?an and numerous verses start; ?they ask thee?say? thus Qur'an (al kitab) ? a book full of Wisdom (a God gift); The Scripture and sunna according to God and that of the Prophets was sent to make clear and teach us.

Perhaps you have ?stories? worthy to append to Qur?an ? if so, post ONE in its entirety with all other references to it and tell why it should be Holy Scripture?

Peace

Leoxyz

Dearest ? it?s polite to answer questions posted to you as well.

From www.blablablabla which has ?actual Quranic text? you requested?

al-Baqarah (The Cow) 2129
2129

Transliteration Rabbana waibAAath feehim rasoolan minhum yatloo AAalayhim ayatika wayuAAallimuhumu alkitaba waalhikmata wayuzakkeehim innaka anta alAAazeezu alhakeemu
Literal Our Lord, and send in them a messenger from them (who) reads/recites on (to) them Your verses/evidences and He teaches/instructs them The Book , and the wisdom , and purifies them , that You are the glorious/mighty the wise/ judicious.

al-Imran (The Family of Imran, The House of Imran) 3164
3164

Transliteration Laqad manna Allahu AAala almu/mineena ith baAAatha feehim rasoolan min anfusihim yatloo AAalayhim ayatihi wayuzakkeehim wayuAAallimuhumu alkitaba waalhikmata wa-in kanoo min qablu lafee dalalin mubeenin
Literal God had blessed on the believers, when He sent in them a messenger from themselves, he reads/recites on them His verses/evidences and he purifies/corrects them, and he teaches/instructs them The Book ,and the wisdom , and if they were from before in (E) a clear/evident misguidance.

How are people to be taught and where are these guaranteed by God ?authentic? instructions?

Re-read prior post and answer the simple questions.

Say or ?qul? appears 100s of times in Qur?an and numerous verses start; ?they ask thee?say? thus Qur'an (al kitab) ? a book full of Wisdom (a God gift); The Scripture and sunna according to God and that of the Prophets was sent to make clear and teach us.

Perhaps you have ?stories? worthy to append to Qur?an ? if so, post ONE in its entirety with all other references to it and tell why it should be Holy Scripture?

Peace

My dear brother ,thanks for reply;
The answer to my question should be just one line but unfortunately it is still lacking .

I repeat my question;
Which word in the Aya has been translated as "giving".
I do not find that "giving" in this translation which you have provided.
The question is very simple but you are beating about the bush but not answering my question like 2+2 = 4

You said

Say or ?qul? appears 100s of times in Qur?an and numerous verses start; ?they ask thee?say? thus Qur'an (al kitab) ? a book full of Wisdom (a God gift); The Scripture and sunna according to God and that of the Prophets was sent to make clear and teach us

Again probably you have read it from some website www.blablabla .
The word ) has been used in the Holy Quran 332 times not 100 times .Please correct this information for future reference.
Still waiting for exact word

unknownuser

My dear brother ,thanks for reply;
The answer to my question should be just one line but unfortunately it is still lacking .

I repeat my question;
Which word in the Aya has been translated as "giving".
I do not find that "giving" in this translation which you have provided.
The question is very simple but you are beating about the bush but not answering my question like 2+2 = 4

You said Again probably you have read it from some website www.blablabla .
The word ( ) has been used in the Holy Quran 332 times not 100 times .Please correct this information for future reference.
Still waiting for exact word

My dearest brother, hopefully you?ll reply and not ?beat around the bush.?

I did answer and left it as ?teach/instruct? so you can come back to tell us it means we are supposed to follow in every detail from sleeping, walking, eating, etc., except perhaps the sunna of eating watermelon ? no joke and remember according to one of the sunni schools of thought (Maliki perhaps) they weren?t sure to cut it with a knife or bite, thus refused to eat watermelon.

Please correct your vision; I said

How are people to be taught and where are these guaranteed by God ?authentic? instructions?

Re-read prior post and answer the simple questions.

Say or ?qul? appears 100s of times in Qur?an and numerous verses start; ?they ask thee?say? thus Qur'an (al kitab) ? a book full of Wisdom (a God gift); The Scripture and sunna according to God and that of the Prophets was sent to make clear and teach us.

Perhaps you have ?stories? worthy to append to Qur?an ? if so, post ONE in its entirety with all other references to it and tell why it should be Holy Scripture?

100s of times = multiple hundreds not 100.

I?ll leave it to the original author to present the translation, although ?teach/instruct? can be interpreted as ?give? lessons or a lecture.

Waiting for answers to my simple questions above you keep dodging.

Peace