Focal Point
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Peace,
Why does Qibla have to mean focal point ,convening point or direction of prayer ? None of these meanings have any support from the Quran.
It doesn't have to, but let's cross-reference it, shall we?
qiblah n.f. 2142, 2143, 2144, 2145, 2145, 2145, 1087
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
LL, V8, p 237, 238
EDIT
It's definitely a direction and 1087 is very intriguing and should be looked into more as well. And it definitely seems like a physical direction.
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Peace,
It doesn't have to, but let's cross-reference it, shall we?
qiblah n.f. 2142, 2143, 2144, 2145, 2145, 2145, 1087
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
LL, V8, p 237, 238
EDIT
It's definitely a direction and 1087 is very intriguing and should be looked into more as well. And it definitely seems like a physical direction.
Peace
1087 is a verse with various interpretations. 1087 can mean "in front" , "Before" or "opposite side" with almost the same meaning. There are more than 300 uses of this root in the Quran.
When you cross refer do not limit yourself with a traditional translation.
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Peace
1087 is a verse with various interpretations. 1087 can mean "in front" , "Before" or "opposite side" with almost the same meaning. There are more than 300 uses of this root in the Quran.
When you cross refer do not limit yourself with a traditional translation.
salam
can you suggest a better interpretation of 1087?
salam
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salam
no reason why you should not think that way, i was only surprised because you are the first person i know to suggest it, and i disagree.
salam
Please explain why you disagree.
We have a physical cube, a physical institute, a physical station of Abraham, but somehow, a physically Straight Path (which is just a few metres away and leads straight into the mosque) is silly? -
Peace OPF,
LOL, well you can bring this up with sunnis, if they not agree with it then the whole theory from them are indeed wrong.
Maria
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Please explain why you disagree.
We have a physical cube, a physical institute, a physical station of Abraham, but somehow, a physically Straight Path (which is just a few metres away and leads straight into the mosque) is silly?salam
perhaps in another thread, let us deal with the topic in hand in this one!
salam
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salam ignoramus
The verse 1087 is addressed to both Moses and Aaron. It may be that the verse is instructing them to establish houses for their people ?within Egypt/ bi misra? (since the command to take the Children of Israel and leave Egypt has not come as yet) and to make houses for Moses and Aaron in front /before/on the opposite meaning outside Egypt/out side the jurisdiction of Pharaoh. Please note the difference in the use of ?establish houses? for the people and ?make houses? for Moses and Aaron.
Although the verse is usually read Qiblathan it can be also ?Qubalathan? and according to Lanes this means ?The direction, point, place in front of a thing, the opposite direction?.
This is in line with the Quranic meaning when we check the use of this root in other verses. Qibla to mean 'a place of convening' or 'focal point' are natural off shoots of the corrupted meaning of ?direction?. These meanings have no basis in the Quraan.
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salam ignoramus
The verse 1087 is addressed to both Moses and Aaron. It may be that the verse is instructing them to establish houses for their people ?within Egypt/ bi misra? (since the command to take the Children of Israel and leave Egypt has not come as yet) and to make houses for Moses and Aaron in front /before/on the opposite meaning outside Egypt/out side the jurisdiction of Pharaoh. Please note the difference in the use of ?establish houses? for the people and ?make houses? for Moses and Aaron.
Although the verse is usually read Qiblathan it can be also ?Qubalathan? and according to Lanes this means ?The direction, point, place in front of a thing, the opposite direction?.
This is in line with the Quranic meaning when we check the use of this root in other verses. Qibla to mean 'a place of convening' or 'focal point' are natural off shoots of the corrupted meaning of ?direction?. These meanings have no basis in the Quraan.
salam
your translation does not quite make sense to me, could you please give a complete translation of the verse. also, there seems to be mention of blessings towards the end.
thank you.
salam
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salam ignoramus
Although the verse is usually read Qiblathan it can be also ?Qubalathan? and according to Lanes this means ?The direction, point, place in front of a thing, the opposite direction?.
This is in line with the Quranic meaning when we check the use of this root in other verses. Qibla to mean 'a place of convening' or 'focal point' are natural off shoots of the corrupted meaning of ?direction?. These meanings have no basis in the Quraan.
Qibla = focal point
can be proved from following logic.
A person ,who was learning English was repeating the word "Hen" loudly like this .
"Hen means black ,hen means black ,hen means black."
Someone listened and said to him "hen does not mean "black" rather it means a domestic bird which lays eggs.You know what did that person replied?? "I see.Don't you know that hen is sometimes black ? Yes ,then ? If hen is black ,then hen means black. -
Although the verse is usually read Qiblathan it can be also ?Qubalathan? and according to Lanes this means ?The direction, point, place in front of a thing, the opposite direction?.
Salaam warner, all
The difference between "qiblatan" and "qubaalata" is not just the diatrical signs, but also the spelling. Where I put a double "a" is suppsed to be an alif that does not exist in "qiblatan"
qiblatan
qibaalata -
Salaam all
In verse 1087 I am not much concerned with the word "qibla" as I am with "misr". The reason is that those people are supposedly in Egypt already, and definitely have homes; so why would Moses and Aaron be commanded to make homes for them in "Egypt"?
Here is my understanding
The word "misr" is not Egypt. It means "boarder; foot of mountain". This is logical. They are commanded to take those believers to the boarders, and the house/s of Aaroun and Moses will be the center of their homes so that they can meet and study their new faith or the ten commandments (yuqimuu al salaat) and be ready. Later, they will be lead across the boarders away from the jurisdiction of the Pharaoh. That's why they were asked to move the people near the boarders -
Salaam warner, all
The difference between "qiblatan" and "qubaalata" is not just the diatrical signs, but also the spelling. Where I put a double "a" is suppsed to be an alif that does not exist in "qiblatan"
qiblatan
qibaalataSalaam Samia
I am checking on that. Thanks
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Salaam
Egypt is used in the Quran many times do you see all these uses as border? Even if the meaning of misr incorporates border it can mean the country Egypt.
1087 do you mean qiblathan means center? Why do you think it can not be towards.
Well, maybe misr/Egypt is called so because it is the boarder of the region then. In this verse I just do not understand why Moses and Aaroun were commanded to "build houses" in Egypt to people who are already living in houses in Egypt.
As for the "centre", I think I was thinking faster than writing! qibla means facing each other { } ( from al qamous almuheet) , so I imagined that their house will be in the centre to be facing all the other houses.
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Here is my understanding
The word "misr" is not Egypt. It means "boarder; foot of mountain". This is logical. They are commanded to take those believers to the boarders, and the house/s of Aaroun and Moses will be the center of their homes so that they can meet and study their new faith or the ten commandments (yuqimuu al salaat) and be ready. Later, they will be lead across the boarders away from the jurisdiction of the Pharaoh. That's why they were asked to move the people near the boarders {Sister Samia}They did not have the so called ?Ten Commandments? when they were still in Egypt. Salaat has nothing to do with Ten Commandments. It was commanded much earlier by Ibrahim alaihissalam.
why Moses and Aaroun were commanded to "build houses" in Egypt to people who are already living in houses in Egypt.{Sister Samia}
?build houses? is perhaps not the proper translation; Would it not be proper to consider ?appoint/declare? keeping in view the earlier part of the verse
{for Urdu readers the point has been discussed here}
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/book_4/03/slides/01.html
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They did not have the so called ?Ten Commandments? when they were still in Egypt.
Yes, you are right. But there was amessage anyhow which they were already following, including parts of the ten commandments. So the salat involved teachings and studying/programming.
That could be understood anyway you understand the meaning of salat. But what do you understand from ?
I don't understand urdu. -
Salaam Ignoramus
1087
And we inspired to Moses and his brother that you (both) establish houses to your people by/within Egypt and make your houses in front/in the opposite/facing and keep up salat and give glad tidings to the believers.
This is what I think but someone like Samia should be able to clarify this better, of course her view of the verse is different as you can see from her posts.
Basysyiril does not mean blessings as far as I know. It means announcement/tidings/news. Here it can be glad/good tidings.
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Salaam Ignoramus
1087
And we inspired to Moses and his brother that you (both) establish houses to your people by/within Egypt and make your houses in front/in the opposite/facing and keep up salat and give glad tidings to the believers.
This is what I think but someone like Samia should be able to clarify this better, of course her view of the verse is different as you can see from her posts.
Basysyiril does not mean blessings as far as I know. It means announcement/tidings/news. Here it can be glad/good tidings.
salam
so far, sister Samia's understanding of misr makes sense and i still think qibla means (at least something along the lines of) facing/focus.
i am still no clear on the ending of the verse which most have interpreted as blessings. Sister Samia, could you comment on this please?
salam
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That could be understood anyway you understand the meaning of salat. But what do you understand from ?{Sister Samia}
Sister not fair. You could have guided me by giving translation in keeping with the niceties, intricacies and vastness of Arabic language instead putting me in difficulty since you have far better understanding of Arabic and me is merely a student.
I could understand this"prepare or acknowledge" for the nation of you both, houses in Egypt, and "appoint your {these prepared/acknowledged} houses as Qiblata and establish prayer".
Bani Israel could not make mosques facing Kaaba in the reign of Pharoah. And the Egypt was a planned city, houses could not be made in whatever direction people wanted to make them. And the city was divided into many blocks, parts. Bani Israel must be living in various parts. I understand that both the brothers were asked to select/ acknowledge suitable houses in vartious parts of the city and tell the people of that vicinity to consider such and such house as Qiblata for establishing prayer. For prayers there has to be a Qiblata {bait} in front of the person.